I should probably just by a beater for work and quit worrying myself and slap a whipple on it. But at the same time that takes away alot of the fun of a true daily driven mean ass street car. Which is what I want right now.
Any time you add 100+ horsepower you are taking a risk, most of the time people hurt stuff because they get greedy. That 'one more pulley swap' or 'one more size up on the ntrous jet' or 'just turn up that boost controller' has cost many a stock engine over the years. If you are disciplined enough to keep the power level sane and dont try for that last tenth at the dragstrip or 10hp on the dyno I wouldnt be afraid.
Roush sells and warranties a car with their blower on it, yes its fairly mild tune but that has to tell you someone has some confidence in the stock engine. FRPP also has a warranty, so does edelbrock. I put my wife and two kids in the car and drove 1200 miles to Chicago and back and never gave it a second thought, turbosixx here drove the same distance to Bowling Green and raced his car, then drove it back.
But there is no absolute guarantee that it wont blow up the first time you floor it, unless you buy a kit with a warranty. I have three other cars so if mine lets go I'm not walking. I dont think you did wrong talking to Bob first, you are going to get a lot of opinions on power adders, of course no one has jumped in yet with nitrous or turbos Its a lot of money to spend on a new car, you can buy a pretty nice beater for what a blower costs for one of these. If you arent doing the work yourself you need to be able to trust the guy thats doing it 100%, if Bob thinks your needs would be best suited with a Vortech then listen to the guy that will be working on your car.
Any time you add 100+ horsepower you are taking a risk, most of the time people hurt stuff because they get greedy. That 'one more pulley swap' or 'one more size up on the ntrous jet' or 'just turn up that boost controller' has cost many a stock engine over the years. If you are disciplined enough to keep the power level sane and dont try for that last tenth at the dragstrip or 10hp on the dyno I wouldnt be afraid.
Roush sells and warranties a car with their blower on it, yes its fairly mild tune but that has to tell you someone has some confidence in the stock engine. FRPP also has a warranty, so does edelbrock. I put my wife and two kids in the car and drove 1200 miles to Chicago and back and never gave it a second thought, turbosixx here drove the same distance to Bowling Green and raced his car, then drove it back.
But there is no absolute guarantee that it wont blow up the first time you floor it, unless you buy a kit with a warranty. I have three other cars so if mine lets go I'm not walking. I dont think you did wrong talking to Bob first, you are going to get a lot of opinions on power adders, of course no one has jumped in yet with nitrous or turbos Its a lot of money to spend on a new car, you can buy a pretty nice beater for what a blower costs for one of these. If you arent doing the work yourself you need to be able to trust the guy thats doing it 100%, if Bob thinks your needs would be best suited with a Vortech then listen to the guy that will be working on your car.
I agree. I consider myself more conservative than most. I basically putt around daily to work and back, averaging 21 mpg. I enjoy getting good gas mileage. Not so much for the cost sake, but morso for busting the myth that all v8 sports cars must be terrible on gas. The only time I beat on the car is at the track (Ive been approx 4 times in 8 months) and the occassional street encounter. Thats it. My driving habits wont change with a blower and Im not trying to squeeze every last hp out of it just to brag on the dyno. You mentioned a turbo. Which really intrigues me. But it seems the aftermarket hasnt quite caught up to it yet. I know I cant go wrong with Bob and the vortech, and the price is right. Its just not the 'hot set-up' right now, if you know what I mean. I bought an auto with the goal of going FI at some point because I wanted a fast street car. And here I am...
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Current: 2011 5.0, premium, 19's, comfort, back up cam, mean A6. Stock ET: [email protected], best corrected [email protected]
I agree. I consider myself more conservative than most. I basically putt around daily to work and back, averaging 21 mpg. I enjoy getting good gas mileage. Not so much for the cost sake, but morso for busting the myth that all v8 sports cars must be terrible on gas. The only time I beat on the car is at the track (Ive been approx 4 times in 8 months) and the occassional street encounter. Thats it. My driving habits wont change with a blower and Im not trying to squeeze every last hp out of it just to brag on the dyno. You mentioned a turbo. Which really intrigues me. But it seems the aftermarket hasnt quite caught up to it yet. I know I cant go wrong with Bob and the vortech, and the price is right. Its just not the 'hot set-up' right now, if you know what I mean. I bought an auto with the goal of going FI at some point because I wanted a fast street car. And here I am...
The fun factor will be there with the centri, but the stock torque converter will be holding you back ET wise. One of the guys ont he other forum just did a Paxton and ran 11.30 @ 128 with 10psi. Not sure what the DA was but its Febuary so I'm sure it was decent. The mph is easily there to run 10s, you can raise the RPM so the RPM is higher at the shifts, which wont help 60 foots but will help mph and ET a little. Or you can put a converter in the car that will not only keep the rpm up between shifts but lower the 60 foots as well.
Gas mileage on these wont suffer much with a converter, these lock up well so highway driving the mileage wont change, will change some in city driving most likely but it wont be horrible.
But for highway blasts even the stock converter will be fun enough with any blower, and for most street situations it wont matter. Either blower will most likely light up the tires from a dead stop.
I like turbos, problem is in the packaging, oil drainback, hot pipes and a pretty cramped engine compartment with a lot of accessories. Plus turbo tuning is a bit tricky, not a big deal on a 1/4 mile car but for a daily driver you ahve to know what you are doing, centris are very easy to tune.
The fun factor will be there with the centri, but the stock torque converter will be holding you back ET wise. One of the guys ont he other forum just did a Paxton and ran 11.30 @ 128 with 10psi. Not sure what the DA was but its Febuary so I'm sure it was decent. The mph is easily there to run 10s, you can raise the RPM so the RPM is higher at the shifts, which wont help 60 foots but will help mph and ET a little. Or you can put a converter in the car that will not only keep the rpm up between shifts but lower the 60 foots as well.
Gas mileage on these wont suffer much with a converter, these lock up well so highway driving the mileage wont change, will change some in city driving most likely but it wont be horrible.
But for highway blasts even the stock converter will be fun enough with any blower, and for most street situations it wont matter. Either blower will most likely light up the tires from a dead stop.
I like turbos, problem is in the packaging, oil drainback, hot pipes and a pretty cramped engine compartment with a lot of accessories. Plus turbo tuning is a bit tricky, not a big deal on a 1/4 mile car but for a daily driver you ahve to know what you are doing, centris are very easy to tune.
This is the kind of stuff im looking for. Id like to know the DA of that run to make an even more informed decision. 11.30 @ 128 is nice, but not at 10psi if it was in good DA. I was kinda hoping for something like that ET on 7-8psi in relatively normal DA. I really dont want to do a converter either, even though they've come a long way. And ive already kinda resigned to the fact that the turbo is off the table at this point. Great info Kevin. Thanks.
This is the kind of stuff im looking for. Id like to know the DA of that run to make an even more informed decision. 11.30 @ 128 is nice, but not at 10psi if it was in good DA. I was kinda hoping for something like that ET on 7-8psi in relatively normal DA. I really dont want to do a converter either, even though they've come a long way. And ive already kinda resigned to the fact that the turbo is off the table at this point. Great info Kevin. Thanks.
The torque converter will need to be done if you want the ETs, the reason the PD works well is the bottom end power that makes the stock converter stall to around 3500rpm off the line. Not to mention pretty high average power for the PD across the board, you have to either up the boost on the centri, to get that power in the lower RPM range or raise the RPM so it doesnt drop as far on the shifts. You can do like some and restrict the inlet or a BOV arrangement but efficiency suffers.
You can do gears, headers, lighten things up etc but the most direct path into the 10s with a centri will be tires and torque converter.
I had full intentions of doing a D1SC/converter on this car when I bought it, then I seen Rebecca's car run at Bowling green, figured there had to be a little more to it but there wasnt. I liked the power of the 2010 GT500 I had, plus the car didnt just die in the heat like my old '04 Cobra so I figured a PD coupled with an auto would make a great stealthy 10 second driver - and that it does.
The torque converter will need to be done if you want the ETs, the reason the PD works well is the bottom end power that makes the stock converter stall to around 3500rpm off the line. Not to mention pretty high average power for the PD across the board, you have to either up the boost on the centri, to get that power in the lower RPM range or raise the RPM so it doesnt drop as far on the shifts. You can do like some and restrict the inlet or a BOV arrangement but efficiency suffers.
You can do gears, headers, lighten things up etc but the most direct path into the 10s with a centri will be tires and torque converter.
I had full intentions of doing a D1SC/converter on this car when I bought it, then I seen Rebecca's car run at Bowling green, figured there had to be a little more to it but there wasnt. I liked the power of the 2010 GT500 I had, plus the car didnt just die in the heat like my old '04 Cobra so I figured a PD coupled with an auto would make a great stealthy 10 second driver - and that it does.
I guess I shouldve clarified a little better. I am a little more interested in mph morso than et. So to run 11.00-11.50 is ok with me, I just want the mph more than anything. I understand a converter will be needed to run 10's with the centri more than likely without upping the boost too crazy. Its pretty much proven the roush will do more, just at a premium over the centri. Like I said, you get what you pay for! In the end the cheaper centri route will get what I want for NOW. I guess I really want to see some real world numbers regarding a centri on low boost. Mph more than anything I guess.
I guess I shouldve clarified a little better. I am a little more interested in mph morso than et. So to run 11.00-11.50 is ok with me, I just want the mph more than anything. I understand a converter will be needed to run 10's with the centri more than likely without upping the boost too crazy. Its pretty much proven the roush will do more, just at a premium over the centri. Like I said, you get what you pay for! In the end the cheaper centri route will get what I want for NOW. I guess I really want to see some real world numbers regarding a centri on low boost. Mph more than anything I guess.
MPH will be decent, I ran 127.x with 7-7.5psi in great weather, pretty sure a centri at 7psi with the stock converter would do 120 something in the 1/4 n similar conditions. From a 60-120mph highway blast you probably wouldn't tell the difference between the two But the mph will be helped with a converter in the 1/4 mile, its all about average useable power.
You have a good guy/shop to work on it, if its a fair price get the Vortech, and in the future if you want more do headers or a converter or whatever do it. I'm not trying to sell anything, I paid retail for this Roush so I really dont need to be pimping for them. But I have gone the centri/stock converter route with a P1SC LS1 Z28 and I was really disappointed with the car until a put a converter in it, picked up 1/2 a second and 5mph in the 1/4 with that being the only change. Granted the sock converter on an LS1 F-body was tighter than these and the 1st gearing wasnt as deep but I bet the results would be similar on one of these.
I'm not trying to sell you a torque converter either
MPH will be decent, I ran 127.x with 7-7.5psi in great weather, pretty sure a centri at 7psi with the stock converter would do 120 something in the 1/4 n similar conditions. From a 60-120mph highway blast you probably wouldn't tell the difference between the two But the mph will be helped with a converter in the 1/4 mile, its all about average useable power.
You have a good guy/shop to work on it, if its a fair price get the Vortech, and in the future if you want more do headers or a converter or whatever do it. I'm not trying to sell anything, I paid retail for this Roush so I really dont need to be pimping for them. But I have gone the centri/stock converter route with a P1SC LS1 Z28 and I was really disappointed with the car until a put a converter in it, picked up 1/2 a second and 5mph in the 1/4 with that being the only change. Granted the sock converter on an LS1 F-body was tighter than these and the 1st gearing wasnt as deep but I bet the results would be similar on one of these.
I'm not trying to sell you a torque converter either
Wow. Didnt realize a converter helped THAT much. Hmm. I guess I could always have a 25 shot handy to get up in boost faster at the track, but then again that brings me back to the cylinder pressure issue...
So much to digest lol.
When I think about a converter, I think about the old ones that were just terrible to drive with everyday on the street. But if im gonna spend the money on one, id be right into TVS territory, which id much rather do over a centri with a stall.
2011-2012 Roush tvs kit(540hp) for auto with ford racing tune.
Price:$5,899.00 with free shipping
I think this kit would work great for your needs with a very safe tune.
Last edited by davidhuff; 02-07-2012 at 12:02 PM..
2011-2012 Roush tvs kit(540hp) for auto with ford racing tune.
Price:$5,899.00 with free shipping
I think this kit would work great for your needs with a very safe tune.
Wow. Didnt realize a converter helped THAT much. Hmm. I guess I could always have a 25 shot handy to get up in boost faster at the track, but then again that brings me back to the cylinder pressure issue...
So much to digest lol.
When I think about a converter, I think about the old ones that were just terrible to drive with everyday on the street. But if im gonna spend the money on one, id be right into TVS territory, which id much rather do over a centri with a stall.
I think im getting closer to clarity lol....
These have a 6 speed auto with a deep 1st gear and pretty evenly spaced ratios, a converter feels mushy when you have something like a powerglide with a 3.08 rear end. Like i said the LS1 cars had a tighter converter stock, they also had 350 cubic inches, and the 3.23 rear with a 3.xx ist gear and a 3600 converter didnt feel bad at all. A 4.17 1st with a 3.15 rear will feel even more coupled. I dont know if you's 1/2 a second with the converter swap on these with one of these, of course having the proper converter is just as important. Just bolting any aftermarket converter in isnt the answer, like anything else you need everything to work together to get maximum performance and the guy selling and making you the converter has to know exactly what you are doing. Plus there is a big difference between high quality converters and junk, you certainly get what you pay for there, unfortunately there isnt a lot of choices for these so far.
Its just kind of a fluke how well the PD blowers work on these, the gear ratios and stock converter just seem to work well with it. Its not magic though, even though there are a few 'magic' cars out there that defy logic. Throw a little automotive passion, a little nutswinging in along with some free or discounted parts and forums can be more confusing then help at times.
If you want a PD and Bob is a Whipple dealer, get a whipple, its the same kit as the Roush except for the blower itself. Some say the twin screw is better but for the displacement and boost levels of these either blower moves enough air to easily blow up the stock engine.
My only beef with the TVS is it was way too easy to achieve my goals, so I buy wheels/tires and actually wash and wax the car once in a while. In some sick way I kind of miss the skinned knuckles and swearing while laying on a creeper on a cold garage floor and wrestling torque converters, headers and gears in a late model car lol.
These have a 6 speed auto with a deep 1st gear and pretty evenly spaced ratios, a converter feels mushy when you have something like a powerglide with a 3.08 rear end. Like i said the LS1 cars had a tighter converter stock, they also had 350 cubic inches, and the 3.23 rear with a 3.xx ist gear and a 3600 converter didnt feel bad at all. A 4.17 1st with a 3.15 rear will feel even more coupled. I dont know if you's 1/2 a second with the converter swap on these with one of these, of course having the proper converter is just as important. Just bolting any aftermarket converter in isnt the answer, like anything else you need everything to work together to get maximum performance and the guy selling and making you the converter has to know exactly what you are doing. Plus there is a big difference between high quality converters and junk, you certainly get what you pay for there, unfortunately there isnt a lot of choices for these so far.
Its just kind of a fluke how well the PD blowers work on these, the gear ratios and stock converter just seem to work well with it. Its not magic though, even though there are a few 'magic' cars out there that defy logic. Throw a little automotive passion, a little nutswinging in along with some free or discounted parts and forums can be more confusing then help at times.
If you want a PD and Bob is a Whipple dealer, get a whipple, its the same kit as the Roush except for the blower itself. Some say the twin screw is better but for the displacement and boost levels of these either blower moves enough air to easily blow up the stock engine.
My only beef with the TVS is it was way too easy to achieve my goals, so I buy wheels/tires and actually wash and wax the car once in a while. In some sick way I kind of miss the skinned knuckles and swearing while laying on a creeper on a cold garage floor and wrestling torque converters, headers and gears in a late model car lol.
Lol, thats the beauty of technology! No more busted knuckles on your back to go fast lol.
What kind of power were you making to trap 127 and then 131?
2011-2012 Roush tvs kit(540hp) for auto with ford racing tune.
Price:$5,899.00 with free shipping
I think this kit would work great for your needs with a very safe tune.
If you want more HP over the Roush TVS Kit Tune that comes with the kit,give Justin at VMP Tuning a call and buy a SCT after market tune.
Last edited by davidhuff; 02-07-2012 at 04:28 PM..
Lol, thats the beauty of technology! No more busted knuckles on your back to go fast lol.
What kind of power were you making to trap 127 and then 131?
Well, just like making the 'perfect' pass with a manual trans somehow working your ass off or hurting yourself to achieve the same results is pretty manly to car guys.
That is until you get old
I never had the car on the dyno, the 127 was with Justin's tune and 7psi in -300' DA and the 132 was 9psi with Justin's tune with a couple of my miinor tweaks for timing, shift points and fuel at +1000' DA.
My times are on 524hp/497tq, I think the DA was 700 that night.
My car pushes 9-10lbs of boost.
Total mods, Blower, K&N filter, Roush AB's and wheels and tires.
I didnt touch a thing or change air pressures, drove to the track made two runs and left before I got kicked out.
Car was full weight with nothing removed with ~half a tank a gas. Some extra weight on the car was the wheels and tires and a tool kit.
I get the same mpg as before the blower and it is my daily driver.
My car isnt as fast as Kevin's, but his car was the inspiration for mine. Got to give him some props!
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2011 GT
VMP Roush TVS 10.80@127mph
Built by DynoSpeedRacing
My times are on 524hp/497tq, I think the DA was 700 that night.
My car pushes 9-10lbs of boost.
Total mods, Blower, K&N filter, Roush AB's and wheels and tires.
I didnt touch a thing or change air pressures, drove to the track made two runs and left before I got kicked out.
Car was full weight with nothing removed with ~half a tank a gas. Some extra weight on the car was the wheels and tires and a tool kit.
I get the same mpg as before the blower and it is my daily driver.
My car isnt as fast as Kevin's, but his car was the inspiration for mine. Got to give him some props!
My car went 117 on 6 psi and 126@ 11 psi and letting off. I fail to see how the Roush or whipple have proven to be better than the centri. I'd say they are all pretty equal. All except cost. You can have just as much fun and go just as fast for less. And btw I'm at a DA OD 7200'.
My car went 117 on 6 psi and 126@ 11 psi and letting off. I fail to see how the Roush or whipple have proven to be better than the centri. I'd say they are all pretty equal. All except cost. You can have just as much fun and go just as fast for less. And btw I'm at a DA OD 7200'.
Finally somebody that feels my pain. Thin air is a bitch! I got an 11.2 spinning off the line with a slipping belt on the 69mm pulley on my roush kit in 6900 DA. Same setup at sea level would be low 10's and be running me out of fuel.
Its a lot of money to spend on a new car, you can buy a pretty nice beater for what a blower costs for one of these. If you arent doing the work yourself you need to be able to trust the guy thats doing it 100%, if Bob thinks your needs would be best suited with a Vortech then listen to the guy that will be working on your car.
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