I spoke with Bob Kurgan of Kurgan Motorsports. He just put a shop not far from me at all. To make a long story short, he recommends the Vortech or Paxton for my car. I asked him about the Roush/Whipple because I was kinda set on one of those, but he didnt recommend the roots type. He said the weak point for the coyote is the rods. Because the roots type makes a lot of low end, it also creats a lot of cylinder pressure and will cause more stress on other components. He also said the drive by wire throttle makes it very difficult to dial in for normal driving conditions. He said the centri will be much more reliable and since these motors love to rev and rev quick, it will be a better set-up overall. While the centri wont give the low end hit, it will be more reliable and more friendly for a daily driver. Its also cheaper. Quite a bit cheaper actually. He gave me a killer deal on install and dyno tune. Ballpark I should easily make 550whp on low boost and this kit will easily support 700 with fuel. I wasnt really even considering a Vortech until last week when I saw a powder coated black kit installed. It looked very cool. But I really wanted the roots type 'whine'. Ive kinda resigned to the fact that if I go with a centri it wont be an instant 10 sec bruiser with tires like the Roush because of the low end. It'll probably be more like a mid to low 11 sec car that will trap 125+, but if it means more reliabilty, it may be worth it.
Id like to get everyone's input and thoughts on this...
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Current: 2011 5.0, premium, 19's, comfort, back up cam, mean A6. Stock ET: [email protected], best corrected [email protected]
I spoke with Bob Kurgan of Kurgan Motorsports. He just put a shop not far from me at all. To make a long story short, he recommends the Vortech or Paxton for my car. I asked him about the Roush/Whipple because I was kinda set on one of those, but he didnt recommend the roots type. He said the weak point for the coyote is the rods. Because the roots type makes a lot of low end, it also creats a lot of cylinder pressure and will cause more stress on other components. He also said the drive by wire throttle makes it very difficult to dial in for normal driving conditions. He said the centri will be much more reliable and since these motors love to rev and rev quick, it will be a better set-up overall. While the centri wont give the low end hit, it will be more reliable and more friendly for a daily driver. Its also cheaper. Quite a bit cheaper actually. He gave me a killer deal on install and dyno tune. Ballpark I should easily make 550whp on low boost and this kit will easily support 700 with fuel. I wasnt really even considering a Vortech until last week when I saw a powder coated black kit installed. It looked very cool. But I really wanted the roots type 'whine'. Ive kinda resigned to the fact that if I go with a centri it wont be an instant 10 sec bruiser with tires like the Roush because of the low end. It'll probably be more like a mid to low 11 sec car that will trap 125+, but if it means more reliabilty, it may be worth it.
Id like to get everyone's input and thoughts on this...
Roush is a TVS and the whipple is a twin screw blower, not roots. Both are as capable as the centri blowers. He recommends the paxton/vortech because hes a dealer for them. I would find another shop.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99cobraUgotbit
Everytime I read a post from you it's a "no brainer". I hope you know what your talking about cause I dont want to be in the brainless category
2011 Performance White Mustang GT/CS.
3.55s, 6speed, electronics pkg, HIDs.
Roush is a TVS and the whipple is a twin screw blower, not roots. Both are as capable as the centri blowers. He recommends the paxton/vortech because hes a dealer for them. I would find another shop.
Gotcha. I guess I shouldve referred to them as a 'positive dispacement' blower. Correct? Point being, that style creates a lot of cylinder pressure. But you may be right about the dealer issue. Ive heard nothing but positive things about Kurgan so far though.
Gotcha. I guess I shouldve referred to them as a 'positive dispacement' blower. Correct? Point being, that style creates a lot of cylinder pressure. But you may be right about the dealer issue. Ive heard nothing but positive things about Kurgan so far though.
No there is nothing wrong with Bob. He used to be out here in IL, but moved for warmer climates. He tuned my GT500 and made it happy. But there is nothing to be lost or gained with any of the current blowers on the market. You just need to decide what you want to do with the car, then you will be able to pick a blower. I think the centris would work great for the manual cars for drag racing. BUt the PD blowers for the auto cars for Drag. And for the street, the PD blowers are not to be beat in terms of tq. I had my GT500 pullied, and it would melt tires at any speed in 1st-3rd gears with the roots. It did fall off at the top end though, and that always pissed me off. It needed a TS blower to be perfect. And my pic for best blower would be the whipple. I personally want the procharger. I like the pkg, plus its cheap. I cant afford the $7k for the whipple. But if I had the cash, the twin screw whipple is the best all arounder in my eyes. Low inlet temps, lower than roots or TVS, but will still charge hard to the top like a centri.
You should probably figure out what you want to do with the car first.
10 second street car?
reliable DD?
built race car?
Honestly if you want reliability AND a track car, just cut weight from the car and add bolt-ons. You'll be surprised at how quick these cars can be without a blower.
IMO you can't beat a PD blower on a street car. I've never been a fan of the extra plumbing of a centri.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SicShelby09
No there is nothing wrong with Bob. He used to be out here in IL, but moved for warmer climates. He tuned my GT500 and made it happy. But there is nothing to be lost or gained with any of the current blowers on the market. You just need to decide what you want to do with the car, then you will be able to pick a blower. I think the centris would work great for the manual cars for drag racing. BUt the PD blowers for the auto cars for Drag. And for the street, the PD blowers are not to be beat in terms of tq. I had my GT500 pullied, and it would melt tires at any speed in 1st-3rd gears with the roots. It did fall off at the top end though, and that always pissed me off. It needed a TS blower to be perfect. And my pic for best blower would be the whipple. I personally want the procharger. I like the pkg, plus its cheap. I cant afford the $7k for the whipple. But if I had the cash, the twin screw whipple is the best all arounder in my eyes. Low inlet temps, lower than roots or TVS, but will still charge hard to the top like a centri.
Thanks for the response. The centri's are much cheaper. Why is procharger your choice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowstang03gt
I agree with u. Plus u don't have to worry what intake u should use. I used to hate the old vortechs because of having to run an oil line.
The new ones are self lubricated and you can use the factory airbox.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad500Chris
You should probably figure out what you want to do with the car first.
10 second street car?
reliable DD?
built race car?
Honestly if you want reliability AND a track car, just cut weight from the car and add bolt-ons. You'll be surprised at how quick these cars can be without a blower.
I want a reliably DD that will see the dragstrip and will trap decent for the interstate incounters. I agree these cars will get down with boltons, but by the time your done with those, the cost is almost the same (if you go the centri route). I think Id rather knock it out all in one punch and gradually bolt on from there when the current power level gets boring.
Roush is a TVS and the whipple is a twin screw blower, not roots. Both are as capable as the centri blowers. He recommends the paxton/vortech because hes a dealer for them. I would find another shop.
So true. Working for a few shops I was forced to push certain products because they were deeper on them. Not saying he is a bad guy, but he is going to push what makes number one the most money. Especially to someone who calls or comes in and does not know exactly what they want. TVS or Whipple will be more fun on the street. The shop I was at pushed Vortec and Paxton(same company btw). To me they just are not fun on the street compared to a roots or twin screw.
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2002 True Blue Lightning
So true. Working for a few shops I was forced to push certain products because they were deeper on them. Not saying he is a bad guy, but he is going to push what makes number one the most money. Especially to someone who calls or comes in and does not know exactly what they want. TVS or Whipple will be more fun on the street. The shop I was at pushed Vortec and Paxton(same company btw). To me they just are not fun on the street compared to a roots or twin screw.
But what about street tires? Im assuming the PD will just boil them around town. Correct? Like I said above maybe the centri does the same, but it seems as though the power gradually comes on to wheelspin may not be as big a factor. Its my DD for now and Im not in the mood to run a drag radial all the time. And when the cylinder pressure issue was brought up, that didnt sit too well.
But what about street tires? Im assuming the PD will just boil them around town. Correct? Like I said above maybe the centri does the same, but it seems as though the power gradually comes on to wheelspin may not be as big a factor. Its my DD for now and Im not in the mood to run a drag radial all the time. And when the cylinder pressure issue was brought up, that didnt sit to well.
It is all in how you drive. A centrifugal blown car will destroy the tires the same way. A stock 5.0 destroys the tires. You could start elsewhere for mods. Cold air, tune, h or x pipe, suspension mods, wheels, and tires. If you go with a blower go Tvs or whipple with a plus zero on the tires. Something with a 300 treadwear. 275's won't spill off the wheel and will be much better than the stock Pirelli's.
youll toast tires any way you go.....thats the fun of it and before i went with the tvs i had decided procharger because of the fact it has its own drive belt and i am doing my own install and the procharger kit look to be a more simple install
Thanks for the response. The centri's are much cheaper. Why is procharger your choice?
The new ones are self lubricated and you can use the factory airbox.
I want a reliably DD that will see the dragstrip and will trap decent for the interstate incounters. I agree these cars will get down with boltons, but by the time your done with those, the cost is almost the same (if you go the centri route). I think Id rather knock it out all in one punch and gradually bolt on from there when the current power level gets boring.
Cost was number 1, but being self contained oiling also played a factor for a centri. Not to mention that these cars pull to 7k+ and the centri is going to make power as fast as you can rev it. I dont see my car as a tq monster as the GT500 was. I would rather have that top end now, and spare the low end tire smoke. Plus the install of their kit is very simple and it looks very professional under the hood. I like the standalone drive system for the blower.
I've had twinscrew cars, turbo cars and now a centri car. And this car with a procharger is by far the biggest beast. It's a blast to drive. And with blow the tires off in 1st second third and break them free in 4th.
They all work well and with the right set of gears you can more than make up for loss of tq down low.
It's all about what you want and what you'll use the car for.
Shaun went 11 flat at like 125 with just a couple of minor bolt-ons and one of his tunes. Personally, I would rather have a well tuned bolt on car that runs low 11's, than a supercharged car that runs low 11's. Supercharger or Turbo = 10 second car in my book.
Of course, it is easier (and more costly) to do with forced induction.
He also said the drive by wire throttle makes it very difficult to dial in for normal driving conditions.
Rule #1: If a shop is pushing you away from a certain build because they don't feel like tuning it because it's too complicated then it's time for a new shop.
If you go with a centrifugal supercharger you need to factor in the cost of a torque converter/gears as well.
The TVS is the easiest way to make these cars haul ass.
Cost was number 1, but being self contained oiling also played a factor for a centri. Not to mention that these cars pull to 7k+ and the centri is going to make power as fast as you can rev it. I dont see my car as a tq monster as the GT500 was. I would rather have that top end now, and spare the low end tire smoke. Plus the install of their kit is very simple and it looks very professional under the hood. I like the standalone drive system for the blower.
Gotcha. I should do a little more research on the procharger then...
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Sick2Valve
I've had twinscrew cars, turbo cars and now a centri car. And this car with a procharger is by far the biggest beast. It's a blast to drive. And with blow the tires off in 1st second third and break them free in 4th.
They all work well and with the right set of gears you can more than make up for loss of tq down low.
It's all about what you want and what you'll use the car for.
Gotcha. Good info.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeLTDLX
Shaun went 11 flat at like 125 with just a couple of minor bolt-ons and one of his tunes. Personally, I would rather have a well tuned bolt on car that runs low 11's, than a supercharged car that runs low 11's. Supercharger or Turbo = 10 second car in my book.
Of course, it is easier (and more costly) to do with forced induction.
Mike
Describe minor bolt-ons...
Quote:
Originally Posted by LS2GTO
Rule #1: If a shop is pushing you away from a certain build because they don't feel like tuning it because it's too complicated then it's time for a new shop.
I dont think it was to complicated, just a pita to work with along with the extra cost.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jymboslice
all because you have a centri blower instead of a twin screw, doesnt mean the car will be slower in the quarter mile.
If you want to do freeway/roll racing. Get the centri blower. My setup has a lot of top end and 60-130 goes by very quickly.
This is why im considering the centri, nice trap speeds for roll racing and it may be safer than a PD. According to Kurgan anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbosixx
If you go with a centrifugal supercharger you need to factor in the cost of a torque converter/gears as well.
The TVS is the easiest way to make these cars haul ass.
I know the TVS is proven, but are you concerned about the added cylinder pressure the PD blower adds? Just asking based Im what im being told. Im really not in the mood to be going through the bottom end anytime soon.
Centri no fun??? Hahaha mine would light tires up 1-2 and and had be careful on the 2-3 .. So how is a roots more fun. Now at highway speeds my car shined . Raced a 2009 gt500 from 60-buried speedo and I was up by 3 cars and getting further ... And it was not stock had Whipple 2.9 @16#s and full exhaust made 648 and ran 10.94 so it's fun
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