After watching Top gear UK Season 18 episode 1 Top gear season 18 episode 1 - Car Videos on StreetFire (which IMHO TOP GEAR (UK) is by far the most entertaining car oriented show in the world,) the claim that the GT500 reached 202MPH at the NARDO Italy test track really impressed me. The supercars in the show averaged only slightly higher observed top speed than a factory Mustang!
After watching Top gear UK Season 18 episode 1 Top gear season 18 episode 1 - Car Videos on StreetFire (which IMHO TOP GEAR (UK) is by far the most entertaining car oriented show in the world,) the claim that the GT500 reached 202MPH at the NARDO Italy test track really impressed me. The supercars in the show averaged only slightly higher observed top speed than a factory Mustang!
Pics upload them to imageshack then cut and paste.
202 is just another way the GT500 is seperated from the pack and it is one of the most impressive stats about the 13. But with the 650hp gearing and extra downforce and cooling I see it as plausible without the tailwind. Do those supercars mentioned have significantly better power to weight?
Maybe The Mustang got to 202 MPH with a 30 MPH tailwind?
Yeah they waited for a 30+mph directional tail wind after they had one end of the track raised up with a glass top repaving so it would be all down hill too.....(; ....no your not cynical......
____________________________________
1991 T-Bird (Steel Blue frost)
2001 Lightning (red)sold
2007 GT500 (Vista blue /white)sold
2011 Lariat F150EB Platinum white
Last edited by 91svtbird; 02-10-2012 at 04:34 AM..
Maybe The Mustang got to 202 MPH with a 30 MPH tailwind?
dude - it's a damn circle. not even an oval, it's a circle. a tailwind on a circle doesn't effect that big of a patch of pavement, especially when the giant circle is pretty steeply banked.
dude - it's a damn circle. not even an oval, it's a circle. a tailwind on a circle doesn't effect that big of a patch of pavement, especially when the giant circle is pretty steeply banked.
They waited for a tornado at the center point of the track...
dude - it's a damn circle, not even an oval, it's a circle. A tailwind on a circle doesn't effect that big of a patch of pavement, especially when the giant circle is pretty steeply banked.
I was trying to bring a little levity into all of this with the tailwind comment.
I do have some questions however. The Top Gear Shootout at Nard showed a track could use a fresh coat of paving.
1. Did the GT500 run on this surface? If so that further goes to show how well Ford tuned the suspension, as the supercars were not having fun at 200 MPH.
2. Was the claimed 202 MPH an instantaneous reading or measured over some distance? It would be impressive if the GT500 could lap Nardo at 202 mph!
650 hp at the flywheel (maybe 570 RWHP) is impressive, but that seems a little light on power available to be able to push a relative brick like the GT500 to 200 MPH, considering a much sleeker, and lighter McLaren MP4-12C did the same max speed at Nardo and has a claimed max top end of 205 mph.
The McLaren is powered by the M838T 3.8 litre twin-turbo V8 engine. The design of the It produces 592 bhp (441 kW; 600 PS) and 443 lb•ft (601 N•m) of torque. It has a redline of 8,500 rpm, with 80% of torque available at just 2,000 rpm. I'd think it would take more than the 60 HP difference for the Mustang to match the Mclaren's top end. The Mclaren is an easy 10 Sec +130 MPH car in the 1/4 mile. The MP4-12C weighs 1,301 kg (2,868 lb) dry.
Maybe Ford is being 03 Cobra conservative on the GT500's actual power.
Last edited by mike69440; 02-10-2012 at 11:28 AM..
I too am skeptical of the 200MPH mark falling with a production Mustang. The big 2 is huge in cars. The S197 body does not perform well above 150mph with its huge frontal area and grill opening I know. The grill opening is like a parachute on these things and require a fair amount of HP to overcome. The 10-later was welcome improvment over the 05-09s It would take a fair amount of room to reach the speed(over 3 miles).
The ZR1 and Ford GT which both have similar power, less weight and way better aerodynamics do 205. But it's my understanding that the GT, ZR1 and MP4-12C are electronically limited to their top speed and could go faster if pushed. Something to keep in mind. I just hope Ford just wasn't in such a rush to outshine GM that they figured eh close enough.
____________________________________
An error can never become true however many times you repeat it. The truth can never be wrong, even if no one hears it.
I too am skeptical of the 200MPH mark falling with a production Mustang. The big 2 is huge in cars. The S197 body does not perform well above 150mph with its huge frontal area and grill opening I know. The grill opening is like a parachute on these things and require a fair amount of HP to overcome. The 10-later was welcome improvment over the 05-09s It would take a fair amount of room to reach the speed(over 3 miles).
The ZR1 and Ford GT which both have similar power, less weight and way better aerodynamics do 205. But it's my understanding that the GT, ZR1 and MP4-12C are electronically limited to their top speed and could go faster if pushed. Something to keep in mind. I just hope Ford just wasn't in such a rush to outshine GM that they figured eh close enough.
the ZR1 and ford GT don't have WAY better aerodynamics - only slightly better. the ZR1 especially has quite a bit of drag due to the downforce producing devices, .36 vs the Z06s .34 and the C6s .28. the GT similarly has a drag coefficient around .37-.38. they both have smaller frontal areas of course, but very similar drag coefficients with the shelby GT500KR coming in at .37(based on the original S197 body of course). we already know that the '13 GT500 has a lower drag coefficient, they've mentioned that numerous times.
slightly lower drag coefficient, larger frontal area, 100 more HP, i have zero problem believing that the GT500 matches the GTs 200+MPH speed. weight has nothing to do with top speed
Last edited by Ry_Trapp0; 02-10-2012 at 12:42 PM..
Reason: quality assurance
One of the limiting factors in a production cars top speed is it's tire rating. I don't mean the 285/35ZR20 that's on the tire but the speed rating. Any car that does over 186mph needs a (99Y) speed rating. The definition of a (99Y) is a tire tested at speeds in excess of 186mph. Once the car reaches 200+mph, it really starts to push the tested (99Y). There are higher rated tires but (99Y) is the catch all.
Horsepower and gearing will affect how fast you get to 200mph, Aero and downforce will contribute to your ability to do a 200mph lane change...
Ry is correct, once an object comes to speed, weight matters very little (unless you are changing direction). The only difference between a pound of feathers and a pound of bricks is that in theory, the feathers have more drag and will not fall as fast as the same weight in brick. Once the pound of both feathers and brick reaches top speed, the only thing holding it back is the length of travel (limited by track length) and its ability to change direction... limited by downforce and aero...
In retrospect, you can send any object to almost any speed as long as there is enough power, enough distance and enough time... Aero, downforce just help stability at the desired speed... Downforce is required, hood lift alone can make a car dangerous at 150mph. Downforce simulates vehicle weight lost from the massive air pressure created as the car meets head on with the air.
Edit: 200mph lane changes are highly discouraged....
The C/D is then multipled by area. Hence the Mustang has much larger frontal area AND higher C/D making it FAR worse. RY you are only looking at part of the picture. Weight does not affect top speed you are correct. That is all done by mechanical leverage and power applied to overcome the force of air resistance and friction. BUT weight plays a significant role how fast the car accelerates to that terminal velocity. You are limited by time and space. Some mighty 200mph supercars require about 3 miles of straight stretch to reach the 200mph. This barrier is not easily obtained is what I was stating and for a Mustang to do 200 is amazing!!! These cars do struggle over 150mph and takes a lot of power to overcome. I will predict that the new Shelby will be close to 600rwhp but still its a tall order. I'm skeptical sure but I think it could be possible if conditions are right.
The C/D is then multipled by area. Hence the Mustang has much larger frontal area AND higher C/D making it FAR worse. RY you are only looking at part of the picture. Weight does not affect top speed you are correct. That is all done by mechanical leverage and power applied to overcome the force of air resistance and friction. BUT weight plays a significant role how fast the car accelerates to that terminal velocity. You are limited by time and space. Some mighty 200mph supercars require about 3 miles of straight stretch to reach the 200mph. This barrier is not easily obtained is what I was stating and for a Mustang to do 200 is amazing!!! These cars do struggle over 150mph and takes a lot of power to overcome. I will predict that the new Shelby will be close to 600rwhp but still its a tall order. I'm skeptical sure but I think it could be possible if conditions are right.
i'm not ignoring frontal area("looking at part of the picture), i mentioned it in my post. and, again, the '13 GT500 will likely have a slightly lower Cd than the ford GT(possibly matching the ZR1's .36). slightly lower drag coefficient, larger frontal area, 100 more HP, how is it hard to believe that this can't match the ford GT's 200MPH?
i haven't heard anyone say that the '13 will be topping out in a standing mile or anything, we all know it's gonna take a while to get there.
i'm not ignoring frontal area("looking at part of the picture), i mentioned it in my post. and, again, the '13 GT500 will likely have a slightly lower Cd than the ford GT(possibly matching the ZR1's .36). slightly lower drag coefficient, larger frontal area, 100 more HP, how is it hard to believe that this can't match the ford GT's 200MPH?
i haven't heard anyone say that the '13 will be topping out in a standing mile or anything, we all know it's gonna take a while to get there.
I agree with that! I think the gt500 will hit 200 but i have a feeling it will take longer than it took those cars they tested in top gear to hit the mark.
I would love to know the 2013 gt500 0-150 time and standing mile time, thats what matters to me personally.
Before we get too carried away arguing about benchmarking top speed capabilities, we have to make sure we are comparing apples-to-apples.
If all of the top speeds mentioned were in fact drag limited and optimized for top speed runs (geared 'just right'), then please continue comparing/debating. I'm not sure if this is the case or not, but I suspect that the top speeds of at least some of the cars mentioned here were gearing or electronically limited.
____________________________________
Kenne Bell Supercharged 1996 Mystic Cobra
The Ford GTs where dynoing over 550rwhp stock. They are making close to the same power and frontal multiplied by C/D is a very large difference between them. The GT and others are electronically limited to 205(213 untethered IIRC)so that's why I think it could be possible with the GT500 but it's still a HUGE number that I'm starting to think everyone is starting to think is a number that's easily achieved. The 580hp ZL1 is 186 and several 5-600 super cars that are drag limited to just over 200MPH. This is a BIG number.
I agree with that! I think the gt500 will hit 200 but i have a feeling it will take longer than it took those cars they tested in top gear to hit the mark.
I would love to know the 2013 gt500 0-150 time and standing mile time, thats what matters to me personally.
All true, 0 150 will tell a lot.
150 MPH Ground Speed is about the max my brains and eyes can process as well as my nads are not big enough to drive faster than 150, this all is just e-bench racing.
The Ford GTs where dynoing over 550rwhp stock. They are making close to the same power and frontal multiplied by C/D is a very large difference between them. The GT and others are electronically limited to 205(213 untethered IIRC)so that's why I think it could be possible with the GT500 but it's still a HUGE number that I'm starting to think everyone is starting to think is a number that's easily achieved. The 580hp ZL1 is 186 and several 5-600 super cars that are drag limited to just over 200MPH. This is a BIG number.
Since the ZL1's tires are limited to a (100Y) front and (104Y) rear, the ZL1 is readily equipped to go well over 190+mph. I think transmission gearing, final gearing and horsepower will limit the ZL1 from 200mph.
Edit: Can I get a troll roll on this post please for info....
C&D tested the Ford GT to run 0-60 in 3.3 seconds. 0-150 in 16.9. 0-170 in 23.0. The Ford GT is a beast and I hope Hameedi can back up all the claims he's saying about the 13 in comparison to the GT because on paper as a complete package the GT is a tall order to compete/beat. They are not in the same league but the 13 is gathering tons of hype. I can't wait to see the results of the production car.
C&D tested the Ford GT to run 0-60 in 3.3 seconds. 0-150 in 16.9. 0-170 in 23.0. The Ford GT is a beast and I hope Hameedi can back up all the claims he's saying about the 13 in comparison to the GT because on paper as a complete package the GT is a tall order to compete/beat. They are not in the same league but the 13 is gathering tons of hype. I can't wait to see the results of the production car.
If the ford gt does 0-150 in 16.9 i dont see the new gt500 getting anywhere close to that. Doesnt the current 2011-2012 svtpp gt500's do it in 23.3 seconds? No way will the new setup knock off 6 seconds imo, but i would love to be wrong.
Edit: Little extra comparison would be the z06. 0-150 in 18 seconds flat.
The Ford GTs where dynoing over 550rwhp stock. They are making close to the same power and frontal multiplied by C/D is a very large difference between them. The GT and others are electronically limited to 205(213 untethered IIRC)so that's why I think it could be possible with the GT500 but it's still a HUGE number that I'm starting to think everyone is starting to think is a number that's easily achieved. The 580hp ZL1 is 186 and several 5-600 super cars that are drag limited to just over 200MPH. This is a BIG number.
i haven't seen anyone say 200MPH is "easy". believable? yes. easy? i def wouldn't go that far.
on a side note, the camaro SS has a drag coefficient of .37, and i would be really surprised if the ZL1 was lower(or even the same for that matter). while downforce and drag are by no means directly inverse, they are generally related. i simply don't see GM being able to reduce it while producing a true net downforce with this car.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thePill
Since the ZL1's tires are limited to a (100Y) front and (104Y) rear, the ZL1 is readily equipped to go well over 190+mph. I think transmission gearing, final gearing and horsepower will limit the ZL1 from 200mph.
Edit: Can I get a troll roll on this post please for info....
i'm no expert, but it looks good to me. the ZL1 definitely appears to be HP/drag limited.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hufen
If the ford gt does 0-150 in 16.9 i dont see the new gt500 getting anywhere close to that. Doesnt the current 2011-2012 svtpp gt500's do it in 23.3 seconds? No way will the new setup knock off 6 seconds imo, but i would love to be wrong.
Edit: Little extra comparison would be the z06. 0-150 in 18 seconds flat.
hameedi says that they(the GT and GT500) are 'roughly similar' up to 150MPH, so it shouldn't be too far off. 2 seconds maybe?
i'm pretty sure SVT did IN REAL LIFE testing too, none of that baghdad al O super simulatizor gran turismo testing
Last edited by Ry_Trapp0; 02-10-2012 at 07:52 PM..
Reason: quality assurance
Well perhaps I was wrong. I'll have to dig up some more information. The Ford GT was either electronically limited to 205 or 212 according to a couple different places. The 505hp Z06 drag limited to 198 and the 638hp ZR1 drag limited to 205 according to GM. The 600hp viper was 202.
Still this 13 is in some elite company for its price. Heck these American cars are in some elite company given their price vrs the other world supercars price tags.
I too am skeptical of the 200MPH mark falling with a production Mustang. The big 2 is huge in cars. The S197 body does not perform well above 150mph with its huge frontal area and grill opening I know. The grill opening is like a parachute on these things and require a fair amount of HP to overcome. The 10-later was welcome improvment over the 05-09s It would take a fair amount of room to reach the speed(over 3 miles).
The ZR1 and Ford GT which both have similar power, less weight and way better aerodynamics do 205. But it's my understanding that the GT, ZR1 and MP4-12C are electronically limited to their top speed and could go faster if pushed. Something to keep in mind. I just hope Ford just wasn't in such a rush to outshine GM that they figured eh close enough.
Ford GT did 211.89 mph at Nardo, that's with 100 less hp and 100 less lb/ft of torque.
Well perhaps I was wrong. I'll have to dig up some more information. The Ford GT was either electronically limited to 205 or 212 according to a couple different places. The 505hp Z06 drag limited to 198 and the 638hp ZR1 drag limited to 205 according to GM. The 600hp viper was 202.
Still this 13 is in some elite company for its price. Heck these American cars are in some elite company given their price vrs the other world supercars price tags.
Ford GT is electronically limited to 205 mph, the fastest official speed is above. Although it was on a oval so the actual top speed in a straight line might be a little higher.
____________________________________
"No poor dumb bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."-Patton WW2 GamerTag- FordGTGuy
Last edited by FordGTGuy; 02-11-2012 at 09:05 AM..
Linear Mode
