I guess the seller got an offer he couldnt refuse?
....as long as you state in the auction "this auction may be ended at any time for any reason" and/or "car is also advertised locally and may be sold at any time" you are covered....
What is a bidder's recourse if the seller did not? Which BTW he didn't.
____________________________________
Mike
2000 Cobra R fast 2004 Saleen Cobra faster 2005 Benz SL65 AMG fastest
I just dug into ebay's help files. The seller is OK to cancel 12 hours before the listed end time and he was only nicked with a $125 sucsessful listing fee when the first bid was placed.
____________________________________
Mark Wilson
93 Cobra #1824
93 Cobra R #84
95 Cobra R #39
95 Cobra R #136
Mystery Vehicle www.on-trackperformance.com
Robert - It's really pretty simple with this car. It's owned by Kaufman Racing who is also the same group that raced in back in 94-95. Someone here was confused as to what car it really was but if you were interested in the car and talked to the people selling it you could pretty easily tell the history of this car is pretty solid.
It comes down to this car appeals to a VERY different group of people vs. a stock, low mileage original car. Those same people don't understand why you would take such a rare car and put it on the track. Kind of funny when you consider the car was built to be driven on a track..... isn't it.......
What's wrong with the Joe Lunchbox raced 93R's (Speaking as a Joe Lunchbox who raced his 93R)?
Nothing the matter with Joe Lunchbox 93R's, but Joe Lunchbox and Professionally Raced are two different value levels, even in the old race cars. A privateer who bought a 70 BOSS302 and raced it on weekends and built a log book is not going to fetch the $$$ that a Bud Moore car does, they are two different levels. It would be a shame for a car to be claimed "professionally raced" and $$$ paid at that level, when it is a privateer car with a racing seat and roll bar bolted in and there was never any "profeassional race" history. I am a Joe Lunchbox kind of guy. If I would have bought a 93R and built a log book on weekends back in that era, my car would not even be close to a car that was owned by Steeda, they are on a whole different level, same with the 95R's, there are Joe Luchbox raced 95R's, and then there are Zippo's, Steeda's, Hackers, etc. Two different worlds.
I was wondering if in fact this was a big name raced 93R? Future values were mentioned in this thread (not by me), and "big name" or "no name" will make a difference in the future value that was mentioned.
Robert,
There is a State law. Then there is the local County Tax Commissioner that regulates the law.
First: If you buy a car in the entire world from an individual, there is no sales tax in GA. You can buy an old Mustang or a Ford GT from any individual and you pay no sales tax (but $20 for a tag).
Second: You can buy a vehicle from a dealer in this state or any other state in the U.S. They want to see the sales agreement so they can charge you the sales tax (this is why we avoid dealers like the plague).
Third: A former MSO is based on the selling price as if it's a dealer sale. You can cheat and tell them that you paid $3000 for an old 1993 Mustang (who would argue this from a tag office?). You can state the truth (me) and tell them that it was $20K or $25K or whatever. But I see no reason to title a race car. I can't even drive it on the street since the Atlanta area requires a "sniff test" before I can get a tag. There is no way to pass the sniff test on a 1993 race car.
Now, cars that are over 25 years old are exempt from the emission "sniff" test. That is why you'll see a tag on my 1965 Mustang (and old Porsches).
You need to consider that there is a State law, but it is policed by the person at the local County tag office. Some tag offices are more strict than others. If you happened to go to High School with the boss down at the tag office, you are in excellent shape.
I know guys that will buy a Z06 from an individual, and then trade it in on a new car at a dealer. Therefore, they just pay sales tax on the difference.
It sounds like it may be different in your area, tax wise and definitley can't quoted as the "norm". I wonder how many people who read this forum have the tax option like this.
The main reason I title my stuff is for insurance purposes. A friend of mine had some collector cars in an unattached garage. There was a fire, and a few cars were lost, some were in his name (titled), some were in previous owners names (with open titles), some were MSO (not in his name). He had a heck of a time getting his insurance $$$ for cars that were not in his name. I don't know that he ever did get all that was coming to him. Seems to me that some of the titles were also lost (maybe a file cabinet or something) and the VIN plate was used for I.D.ing the cars that were not in his name and could not be proved to be his. The mistake was, keeping the titles in the same garage as the cars, BUT, what if the title (not in your name) or MSO (not in your name) gets lost and you have nothing but a burned VIN plate and a carcass of a car, and nothing to tie you to it except the garage?
I have a question about Joe lunchbox VS pro driver. Last summer I picked up Robin Bernetts old SCCA AS 94 race car, pics in the SVT recognition guide pg 125 and used in Steeda adds (back cover of most mustang magizens from 98-02). This car won some races, set some track records, and went to the runoffs 3 or 4 times, so this car has some history. At this time we are putting 21 back together after being striped out and all the parts used to build an 99-04 BIW, after a reck in 02. We are planing on running open track/hpds maybe some American Iron maybe vintage racing haven't made up our mind yet. So how would you guys "value" this car.
I have a question about Joe lunchbox VS pro driver. Last summer I picked up Robin Bernetts old SCCA AS 94 race car, pics in the SVT recognition guide pg 125 and used in Steeda adds (back cover of most mustang magizens from 98-02). This car won some races, set some track records, and went to the runoffs 3 or 4 times, so this car has some history. At this time we are putting 21 back together after being striped out and all the parts used to build an 99-04 BIW, after a reck in 02. We are planing on running open track/hpds maybe some American Iron maybe vintage racing haven't made up our mind yet. So how would you guys "value" this car.
Jim
I am not knowledgeable enough to rate these cars, but as for Robin Bernetts, was he a professional driver, was racing his profession, his full time or part time job? or did he do something else during the week and racing was a hobby?
Cars like Robins are kind of difficult to predict future values of as you are really selling the cars racing history vs. the car itself (I don't remember what the car was originally built off). If it was built off a Cobra R it should be worth more than if it was built off a 6 cylinder Mustang. If Robin hits the big time and becomes a big name racer then I would think that this would have a positive impact of the valuation of the car. The fact that it was is some of Steeda's ads probably doesn't hurt but it's really difficult to put a value on that.
I don't know if this really tells you anything but you asked for my opinion.......
Cars like Robins are kind of difficult to predict future values of as you are really selling the cars racing history vs. the car itself (I don't remember what the car was originally built off). If it was built off a Cobra R it should be worth more than if it was built off a 6 cylinder Mustang. If Robin hits the big time and becomes a big name racer then I would think that this would have a positive impact of the valuation of the car. The fact that it was is some of Steeda's ads probably doesn't hurt but it's really difficult to put a value on that.
I don't know if this really tells you anything but you asked for my opinion.......
I agree with this^^^^^^. If a driver gets a break, and hits the right combo at some time in life (paid to drive for his knowledge and experience), a documented car that he previously raced "should" gain in value as part of his racing history.
I would think that the Steeda ads would help the car, if nothing else for the "media" portion that we have talked about in the past, as it relates to race cars. Yes it is only an ad and not actual magazine race coverage/pictures, but it is in the ad, and others are not.
What would we classify drivers such as Chuck Snipes (Ford dealership owner) racing for fun & prestiege? Jason Priestly (actor)? My personal favorite George Biskup(I'm bias), bought the first '95R (#57 of 250), made every event('95),won races, set track records, etc. Guys like him have raced on and off most of their adult life. Marty Robbins had a musical carreer, so he could race "professionally".
What do we call these guys that have the same racing licenses, racing in the same PRO series as the "PRO", that have that 9-5 job?
I do agree that a car that was campaigned by a well known team/driver should bring more $$$ when sold as a classic, but I think we can still call them "professionally raced".
What do you guys think?
Just $.02 again.
____________________________________
"R"s ROCK,
Gene Boc.
'95R never professionally raced #142/250
'95R ex IMSA race car (retired professionally) #57/250 1st '95R sold to the public
What would we classify drivers such as Chuck Snipes (Ford dealership owner) racing for fun & prestiege? Jason Priestly (actor)? My personal favorite George Biskup(I'm bias), bought the first '95R (#57 of 250), made every event('95),won races, set track records, etc. Guys like him have raced on and off most of their adult life. Marty Robbins had a musical carreer, so he could race "professionally".
What do we call these guys that have the same racing licenses, racing in the same PRO series as the "PRO", that have that 9-5 job?
I do agree that a car that was campaigned by a well known team/driver should bring more $$$ when sold as a classic, but I think we can still call them "professionally raced".
What do you guys think?
Just $.02 again.
That is a good question................what is considered "Professional" and what is not, in the racing world when it comes to drivers?
What cars are considered "Professionally Raced"?
We all would like to consider ourselves to be professionals both in our jobs and our hobbies, but where is the line drawn, and I'm sure there is a line/definition somewhere beyond opinions.
What brings a driver and/or car to the Professional level.
We know that in Football or Baseball the move from the lower league (AA, AAA, etc.) to the upper league brings the "Pro" title. The athletes were playing the same game in the lower league, but now they are in the Pro's (people are paying $$$ for them, they are getting paid for their performance in their sport). Same way with NASCAR.... So where is this line in SCCA, IMSA, F1 or even NHRA, IHRA and other automobile sports?
Is it a sponsor level, is it that the car and driver are fully funded by the sponsor(s)?
Is it that the car and drivers are at a certain performance level in competition and nothing else?
Even in baseball, the A,AA,AAA leagues are considered The PRO's. They have contracts. Some minor leaguers make a living (carreer) playing minor league baseball (their dream). The Major League is called The Big Show (among the players).
In auto racing, if you are racing for a money prize (purse), that's Pro. If you race for a trophy (SCCA), that is usually called Club Racing. Anyone may chime in with corrections or more info.
Robins car started life as pre-poduction(vin number 100235) SN-95 v6. He ran a 302 based motor. I know as a driver Robin went to the runoffs 3 or 4 times and has since won the American Iron AI champinship in 08 and placed 2nd or 3rd the year be for that. He has some sponsers, and won some money but for the most part it is a hobby.
I know this car will never be worth what a real or even an biw 95R ex-race car is, but I figure that it will be worth more then other SN-95 25-30 years from now just because of the Steeda ads and posters http://www.steeda.com/wallpaper/3RaceCars1027.jpg and the history it has.
Now if and when this car is done(and I have the skills as a driver) would this car be able to run with the yearly Cobra R Exhibition/race/challenge or at the say the 50th in 4 years from now?
Robert, In auto racing, if you are racing for a money prize (purse), that's Pro. If you race for a trophy (SCCA), that is usually called Club Racing. Anyone may chime in with corrections or more info.
Again, $.02
Gene B.
Gene - Is this just that type of racing^^^^^^^SCCA vs, Club? You said "In auto racing".
If it is not limited to SCCA and Club,
I guess that about covers everyone who gets in a car on Saturday night and races, from the 17 year old who drives his dad's windowless Pinto station wagon powered by a 2300 w/twin plug Ranger head, to the Street Stocks, to the Late Models. All of them race on the 1/8 mile oval at Auburndale Speedway (Auburndale Fl.) on Saturday night (in season), all are competing for the winners share of the purse (for their class), all must be Pro's?? There are trophies for the winning cars at the end of the season, or at special events, but when it is the normal Joe Lunchbox evenings, it is a purse. This is the case for every race track that I have visited here in central Fl. even if it is mud bogging, drag racing, spints at East Bay or other racing, well maybe pig racing gets a prize (trophy) instead of money, I'd have to talk to those racers to be certain. I only brought up pig racing because I attended a state fair recently with Legend Cars and pig racing as features.
I think there is another level where this Pro vs. not Pro is defined.
Just thought I would post this up for anyone interested. Less than 1,500 mi
____________________________________ 2001 Cobra - Magna Flow Exhaust, JLT CAI, 4:10 gears H&R lowering springs and Steeda Tri Ax Shifter Waiting in the garage: Built short block, 04 heads, GT cams, partial built IRS ect ect
2004 Cobra Conv - Triple Black, K&N, All Stock!!
Still looking for a T56 or TKO 600 in or close to michigan and Procharger D1
In my view when I think of a "pro" driver that would be someone who is makes their living driving and is payed to drive the car. A pro may show up on Fri qualifies, races on Sat and leaves on Sun. The team covers all of his expenses and he gets payed X amount per race.
A lot of the IMSA/SCCA/World Challenge drivers I would look at as semi-pro. They travel around the country to race but still have 9-5 jobs, some winnings and sponsorship but for the most part do it as a hobby. They are owner/driver and some may have a crew chief and pit crews. Also the drivers my be well know in there series and to the fans but not known outside of it. Some teams will pay a "pro" to drive their car, or a driver my pay the team to rent a seat... kind of a arrive and drive.
As for the local dirt track I think of them as "amateur," may have some local sponsors and may win a trophies/prize money but never go past say 50 miles to race and will and is not known outside of the county. Now if they go beyond the "local circuit" they could move up the ranks to semi pro/pro.
Jim
Last edited by cobra-boss; 11-02-2009 at 06:45 PM.
In my view when I think of a "pro" driver that would be someone who is makes their living driving and is payed to drive the car. A pro may show up on Fri qualifies, races on Sat and leaves on Sun. The team covers all of his expenses and he gets payed X amount per race.
A lot of the IMSA/SCCA/World Challenge drivers I would look at as semi-pro. They travel around the country to race but still have 9-5 jobs, some winnings and sponsorship but for the most part do it as a hobby. They are owner/driver and some may have a crew chief and pit crews. Also the drivers my be well know in there series and to the fans but not known outside of it. Some teams will pay a "pro" to drive their car, or a driver my pay the team to rent a seat... kind of a arrive and drive.
As for the local dirt track I think of them as "amateur," may have some local sponsors and may win a trophies/prize money but never go past say 50 miles to race and will and is not known outside of the county. Now if they go beyond the "local circuit" they could move up the ranks to semi pro/pro.
Jim
Jim - Your first paragraph is what I was thinking. So if someone has to foot their own bill for their race endeavor, or maybe has some small sponsorship, but nothing near the cost of paying for their ride, not to mention themselves (the driver/owner), they wouldn't be considered "Pro".
Your comments above do give a nice overview of the way that this sport seems to work.
The last paragraph, definitely Joe Lunchbox in most cases, not that this is a bad thing, just reality.
Tom has a Zippo race car. Those guys raced as a hobby. They had a great sponsor that paid their way and added to their bank account for the most part. They would be semi pro racers, but I would venture that the race cars are about the best known of the cars out there.
The difference between Zippo and Steeda is the lenth of time they raced in the series. Steeda reached their goals and quit early on. Zippo was a mainstay.
____________________________________
Rob Bodle
Road Racing Writer Mustang Enthusiast Magazine
Editor MustangOnTrack.com
2007 ARRC Enduro runner up/ITO Class Champion
2009 ARRC ITO Champion
the 65 r's were all renta rides also............tell me if anybody who flogged a 65 r car ever won at indy, daytona or lemans......................
Well...Mark Donahue, Jerry Titus and Ken Miles raced those cars.
Donahue won the Indy 500. Jerry Titus was the 1967 Trans Am Champion.
Ken Miles won the 1966 Rolex 24 at Daytona and finished 2nd in the 24 Hours of Lemans in a GT40.
Marty Robbins had a musical carreer, so he could race "professionally". 
Linear Mode
