Today I had quite a lengthy conversation with Tony of the SVT Cobra Mustang Club, AKA SCMC. He would like to get an R gathering together next year in May for their VIR event which will be the first weekend (FRI-SAT-SUN) AFTER Memorial Day. Friday will be Full Course, Saturday and Sunday will be North Course.
His thoughts are for some sort of an R challenge race. I told him that the three R model years have very different capabilities and there are also discrepancies in driver ability as well. Not to mention the fact that some have gone mod crazy (without mentioning any names ) and others have remained relatively stock. So we tossed around some ideas of how this could be resolved. At first I immediately thought about the SATCAR format where people qualify and then get sent out on track based on their lap times. For instance if you do a lap in say one minute flat and another person does a lap in 1:05 the person with the 1:05 lap would get a :35 jump for a 7 lap race on the person turning the 1:00 flat laps. Now the hard part would be 'regulating' the qualifying lap times to prevent sandbagging. This is where Tony had the brainstorm of letting the drivers 'dial-in' their own times sort of like 'bracket' racing at the drag strip. If you 'break-out' you're disqualified. So driver ability, car ability, mods, tires, wheels, etc. would not matter.
I also think there should be some sort of 'grace' allowance because we all know how much faster we drive when we're chasing or being chased. I think the 'grace' should be a minimum of one second per lap, possibly two. Not sure if a 'grace' could or should be extended more that two seconds but we can certainly discuss it.
So this thread is being put up in plenty of time ahead of the event so we can discuss the possibility of having a large contingency of R models turn out for this event.
It would be unlikely this exhibition would be run on Friday when we are on Full Course. Some people might not be able to make it on Friday. My suggestion to Tony was run it as the last session on Saturday or the last session before the Noon lunch break on Sunday so if anyone wants or needs to leave early on Sunday they still can.
Let's get everyone's feelings on the subject and whether or not this is something that interests you?
____________________________________ Bruce
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The late model demo race at the Ford Shelby Mid America event put on by Scott Hoag is always a fun time. The cars use transponders to get their lap times Friday morning. After lunch the fast cats start at the rear of the field so they already have several secs to make up during the race and of course they have to pass all the other slow cars.
This demo is really for the pleasure of spectators and the main thing is not to run off and hide but play around, running side by side thru the turns, changing position and just having fun. Of course the last few laps are to go for broke..lol. The fastest cats always win. I guess it really comes down to how you want to run the event. I am open for any venue and will try to make the event. It is always fun to run with all my track friends. The main thing to remember is to be safe and of course most of the time we have experience with the other drivers and trust them not to be stupid and cause car to car damage.
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Joe Johnson
2000 Cobra R #466 (162 of 300)
2004 SVT Mustang Grand AM Koni Challenge Cup car #52
2007 Shelby GT Mustang #233
2005 Ford F-150 w/ 5.4 and towing package
2002 Lincoln LS -Wife's car
Sounds as though I too live on the wrong side of the country for R events. The last event in Alabama was over 4400 miles round trip, which is why I didn't attend. If the next event is at VIR, the round trip would be over 6300 miles for me, and it's too far for me to trailer.
Seems like we need to start a West Coast event? Willow Springs anyone? Maybe try and get track time with Lynn Park and the COCOA, (Cobra Owners Club of America), group mother's day weekend in 2010...
Today I had quite a lengthy conversation with Tony of the SVT Cobra Mustang Club, AKA SCMC. He would like to get an R gathering together next year in May for their VIR event which will be the first weekend (FRI-SAT-SUN) AFTER Memorial Day. Friday will be Full Course, Saturday and Sunday will be North Course.
His thoughts are for some sort of an R challenge race.
Let's get everyone's feelings on the subject and whether or not this is something that interests you?
VIR is a great place to have this type of an event!
The 2009 SCMC event there was one great time!
For any one looking to get some more track time there SCMC has a fall date there on October 17 & 18, 2009 as well.
How was the race at Barber Run?
What would the minimum safety equipment requirements be?
Sounds like a great opportunity and it would give me enought time to get some needed track experience in the R (and in general). I've seen a number of videos from VIR and it looks like a great facility.
I live in Louisiana and am not close to many tracks. Can anyone else give me some suggestions on where to look to find out what types of tracks and events for relative newbies there might be in the general Texas, Louisiana, Miss., Arkansas area? PM me if possible so that I don't clutter up this thread :thumbsup:
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Current Fords:
2000 Cobra-R #160/300
2007 GT500 Blk/Wht, TVS, GR40SS. 667rwhp
2001 F350 Crew Cab 4x4 (Diesel tow vehicle and family carrier)
Moved on to new owners:
2003 KB 2.6 Lightning
2001 KB 2.6 Lightning
2005 Vortech SC GT
Lots of Foxes
Sounds like a great opportunity and it would give me enought time to get some needed track experience in the R (and in general). I've seen a number of videos from VIR and it looks like a great facility.
I live in Louisiana and am not close to many tracks. Can anyone else give me some suggestions on where to look to find out what types of tracks and events for relative newbies there might be in the general Texas, Louisiana, Miss., Arkansas area? PM me if possible so that I don't clutter up this thread :thumbsup:
VIR is awesome.
Try trackopedia.org or something like that to find tracks in your neck of the woods...
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Ryan "If you're not trying, you can't really fail." - Forrest Griffin
I think Saturday would be the best time for this. There would be the most attendance considering there is also the car show going on that day. What a great turnout that could make for SCMC.
The only problem I see with running a race is how that will affect insurance rates for SCMC. Most HPDE club outings strictly prohibit lap timing. Guess that is not my problem to worry about.
Even with dialing in times you can still work that system to your advantage. If your the faster car you simply dial in a time slightly ahead of your competition, even though you may be faster than your dialed time, then once you catch up and pass them you stay just ahead to win but not break out. Of course your competition may not have dialed in there accurate time as well.
Maybe have a couple different classes. Stock and modified. Keeps the playing field a little more level.
As far as driver ablitliy. Well that is what racing is all about. Unless you have a pit crew.
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Mark Wilson
93 Cobra #1824
93 Cobra R #84
95 Cobra R #39
95 Cobra R #136
Mystery Vehicle www.on-trackperformance.com
That doesn't sound too cheap considering airfare, and vehicle transportation, to the east coast and back.
To trailer a car from coast to coast will take 5 days (mabe 4 if you push yourself) each way, if you have a co-driver less.
Now think of meals and lodging for that time period, as well as fuel etc.
A friend of mine has done the ship your car to an event on the west caost and it was in the $1200 to $1500 round trip price range. add $500 for air fare.
It would cost more then $2K to transport your own car, especially when you add in 7 to 10 days you be missing work.
As I always say if you really want to go some where you will find a way to get there.
To trailer a car from coast to coast will take 5 days (mabe 4 if you push yourself) each way, if you have a co-driver less.
Now think of meals and lodging for that time period, as well as fuel etc.
A friend of mine has done the ship your car to an event on the west caost and it was in the $1200 to $1500 round trip price range. add $500 for air fare.
It would cost more then $2K to transport your own car, especially when you add in 7 to 10 days you be missing work.
As I always say if you really want to go some where you will find a way to get there.
Phil
This is also assuming I own a truck and trailer... which I don't.
Think I'll stick with the SL 1993 R's idea... pray for a west coast R event to attend. LOL
His thoughts are for some sort of an R challenge race. I told him that the three R model years have very different capabilities and there are also discrepancies in driver ability as well. Not to mention the fact that some have gone mod crazy (without mentioning any names ) and others have remained relatively stock. So we tossed around some ideas of how this could be resolved. At first I immediately thought about the SATCAR format where people qualify and then get sent out on track based on their lap times. For instance if you do a lap in say one minute flat and another person does a lap in 1:05 the person with the 1:05 lap would get a :35 jump for a 7 lap race on the person turning the 1:00 flat laps. Now the hard part would be 'regulating' the qualifying lap times to prevent sandbagging. This is where Tony had the brainstorm of letting the drivers 'dial-in' their own times sort of like 'bracket' racing at the drag strip. If you 'break-out' you're disqualified. So driver ability, car ability, mods, tires, wheels, etc. would not matter.
I also think there should be some sort of 'grace' allowance because we all know how much faster we drive when we're chasing or being chased. I think the 'grace' should be a minimum of one second per lap, possibly two. Not sure if a 'grace' could or should be extended more that two seconds but we can certainly discuss it.
I had Kern and Satcar at Gingerman a few years ago... I ran the race and had a complete blast........but I also remember listening to many people complaining that it was stupid, and was cutting into thier tracktime, ect.
The only logical way to do something like this would be to talk to Kern and see if he would come run the race using the Satcar rules. He has been fine tuning the software and rules for 3 or 4 years, why not use his experience?
Something like this is the only real way the cars could be equalized. It also rewards the consistant and clean driver since you are penalized for dropping a wheel off the track, ect.
2005 NASA American Iron Midwest Champion.
2006 NASA American Iron Midwest Champion
2009 BMW M3: Interlagos blue, SMG
2009 BMW X3
1994 Cobra,The race car. (Sold)
2000 Cobra R 131 of 300 Built 3/15/00
1995 Cobra R #23 (NASA AI Midwest & AV8SS #23)
2008 Corvette Z06
2010 Camaro SS (The new racecar, build in process) carriagehousecustoms.com
My braking point entering a corner is when I see the corner worker raising the yellow flag for me
I had Kern and Satcar at Gingerman a few years ago... I ran the race and had a complete blast........but I also remember listening to many people complaining that it was stupid, and was cutting into thier tracktime, ect.
The only logical way to do something like this would be to talk to Kern and see if he would come run the race using the Satcar rules. He has been fine tuning the software and rules for 3 or 4 years, why not use his experience?
Something like this is the only real way the cars could be equalized. It also rewards the consistant and clean driver since you are penalized for dropping a wheel off the track, ect.
Brian
Brian:
I will fully admit that I was one of the people that lambasted the Satcar 'system' mainly because NO passing was allowed in the turns. Therefore the absolute SLOWEST car has the biggest advantage and the FASTEST car had the least advantage. This is due to the fact that the slowest car would NEVER have to wait to pass anyone and the fastest car would almost always have to wait to pass EVERY car! IMHO that's stupid, unfair and totally non-competitive.
If we ran an 'Exhibition Race' based on the proposal I posted up on the original post, there would be no waiting to pass. I would have absolutely no problem running a 'race' with guys like you, Mark, Gene, Joe, Fred, Ken, Tom, Rob or Doc. (Or for that matter, throw out any other R owners name on this board to that list that has typical track experience)
I think a 'wheel dropping' penalty would be hard to enforce on a track like VIR North. It's not like MAM or Gingerman where you can see the whole track standing in the pits!
How about us west coast guys try to find a nice area to attend, I dont want to drive in California, truck to long, how about Miller Motorsports park in Utah, kinda central for western states, maybe Reno area? I would be willing to attend and help on the west coast stuff.
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2008 Gt500
2003 Cobra Conv 10th Ann
2001 Saleen SC #387
2001 F150 Harley Davidson
2000 Cobra R #295
1999 Lightning
1993 Cobra r #104
1984 GT 350
Its been a problem
I am curious to know , since this was a successful venue , why reinvent the wheel , just replicate what was successful, and apply it to the 2010 VIR event .
I am curious to know , since this was a successful venue , why reinvent the wheel , just replicate what was successful, and apply it to the 2010 VIR event .
The "Late Model Mustang Exhibition" (it wasn't an R Race because there were not enough R models) was exactly that, an 'exhibition'. Side by side racing was encouraged as was putting on a good show for the spectators. There was a VERY large gathering of spectators at that event which I can only assume was somewhere in the 1,000's. This was the Mustang 45th Anniversary Celebration and it was probably MORE for the fans than it was for the particpants. The SCMC event would be MORE for the participants than the fans as there will be much fewer fans spectating.
Roll bars and basic safety equipment were required. All of the participants were seasoned track dawgz and behaved very well. Although there were a couple of off track excursions they took place without a single wrinkle of sheetmetal that I am aware of.
all behaved well? that must not include brain fade.
as for required equipment, maybe its just me, but nobody should be racing or running racing speeds in a street car. the racing safety gear is important. i would suggest head and neck restraint as well. but...thats just me.
I will fully admit that I was one of the people that lambasted the Satcar 'system' mainly because NO passing was allowed in the turns. Therefore the absolute SLOWEST car has the biggest advantage and the FASTEST car had the least advantage. This is due to the fact that the slowest car would NEVER have to wait to pass anyone and the fastest car would almost always have to wait to pass EVERY car! IMHO that's stupid, unfair and totally non-competitive.
If we ran an 'Exhibition Race' based on the proposal I posted up on the original post, there would be no waiting to pass. I would have absolutely no problem running a 'race' with guys like you, Mark, Gene, Joe, Fred, Ken, Tom, Rob or Doc. (Or for that matter, throw out any other R owners name on this board to that list that has typical track experience)
I think a 'wheel dropping' penalty would be hard to enforce on a track like VIR North. It's not like MAM or Gingerman where you can see the whole track standing in the pits!
My .02 cents.
Bruce,
That Gingerman event was one of Kerns first events and like everything else, we learn from experience. One suggestion from the Gingerman event from me was exactly your concern about the disadvantage that faster cars have, which Kern told me later he adressed in the rules.
I also have no problem running with people that I know and have experience, but alot of track experience is very different than racing experience and driving off line ion corners...it is not to be taken lightly in my opinion.
As far as the rules on dropping tires ect, that is called in by corner workers. When it is called in, you are called in for a appropriate penalty. The emphasis is on safety and good driving.
) and others have remained relatively stock. So we tossed around some ideas of how this could be resolved. At first I immediately thought about the SATCAR format where people qualify and then get sent out on track based on their lap times. For instance if you do a lap in say one minute flat and another person does a lap in 1:05 the person with the 1:05 lap would get a :35 jump for a 7 lap race on the person turning the 1:00 flat laps. Now the hard part would be 'regulating' the qualifying lap times to prevent sandbagging. This is where Tony had the brainstorm of letting the drivers 'dial-in' their own times sort of like 'bracket' racing at the drag strip. If you 'break-out' you're disqualified. So driver ability, car ability, mods, tires, wheels, etc. would not matter. 
Therefore the absolute SLOWEST car has the biggest advantage and the FASTEST car had the least advantage. This is due to the fact that the slowest car would NEVER have to wait to pass anyone and the fastest car would almost always have to wait to pass EVERY car! IMHO that's stupid, unfair and totally non-competitive. 
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