Well , word on the street down here according to some engine builders is that E85 can cause main bearings failures ..another story might be that e85 is thin enough to get pass the rings ..fact of the matter is that I'm in the process of building my motor with money I really didn't want to spend due to a main bearing #4 failure .. My car is a kb 2.2 on e85 by the way .any important info pls school me on this ..still planning on running E85 .
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Last edited by bambinov8; 01-18-2012 at 07:31 PM..
That would be false. If you have fuel making it into your oil, you have tuning issues.
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That would be false. If you have fuel making it into your oil, you have tuning issues.
+1
They probably dont know enough about it to truely tune it to its sweet spot. So they are blaming it on the E-85 because they dont know what they are doing.
The only way to get fuel into the main bearings is if it ends up in the oil. So your engine builder either gapped the rings wrong or they are pouring fuel into the chamber.
They probably dont know enough about it to truely tune it to its sweet spot. So they are blaming it on the E-85 because they dont know what they are doing.
The only way to get fuel into the main bearings is if it ends up in the oil. So your engine builder either gapped the rings wrong or they are pouring fuel into the chamber.
The main bearing that went bad happened on the stock motor , never touched before by any builder
Fuel dilution is a valid and legit reason to drain your oil. Fuel does get into the oil since the rings will always have oil on them and the top ones are exposed to combustion. If they were dry they would not seal very well at all.
The level of fuel dilution will be higher with E85 and Meth powered cars since the stoich is so different.
High levels of fuel dilution is common on blown meth engines, I would assume it would be higher on blown E85 engines as well but to a slightly lesser degree.
The RP XPR series race oils actually separate quite nicely from meth when drained and allowed to sit. The guys that race with meth love our XPR.(drags, dirt and asphalt mods and super mods and sprints)
You can pour off the meth that has risen to the top and actually reuse the oil.
E85 might not separate as easily or at all since it is blended with gas, I will find out tomorrow and post up.
Sorry to hear of your recent difficulty, hopefully you can get your fuel dilution issue under control without too much hassle.
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Jimmy
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Last edited by Jimmysidecarr; 01-19-2012 at 12:52 PM..
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Fuel dilution is a valid and legit reason to drain your oil. Fuel does get into the oil since the rings will always have oil on them and the top ones are exposed to combustion. If they were dry they would not seal very well at all.
The level of fuel dilution will be higher with E85 and Meth powered cars since the stoich is so different.
High levels of fuel dilution is common on blown meth engines, I would assume it would higher on blown E85 engines as well but to a slightly lesser degree.
The RP XPR series race oils actually separate quite nicely from meth when drained and allowed to sit. The guys that race with meth love our XPR.(drags, dirt and asphalt mods and super mods and sprints)
You can pour off the meth that has risen to the top and actually reuse the oil.
E85 might not separate as easily or at all since it is blended with gas, I will find out tomorrow and post up.
Sorry to hear of your recent difficulty, hopefully you can get your fuel dilution issue under control without too much hassle.
thanks for the good info jimmy ...BTW I also talked to Ronnie Crawford down here and he also said any ester based oil ain't good with E85 ..I'm just trying to gather correct info so I have a killer and safe set up and not killing a bearing again ..my oil changes were on point since the day I bought the car wit 13k miles .Mobil full synthetic 10w30
thanks for the good info jimmy ...BTW I also talked to Ronnie Crawford down here and he also said any ester based oil ain't good with E85 ..I'm just trying to gather correct info so I have a killer and safe set up and not killing a bearing again ..my oil changes were on point since the day I bought the car wit 13k miles .Mobil full synthetic 10w30
Most reputable oil companies that make automotive synthetic oils will not be using just esters(even the one's that claim they are ester oils ) for automotive use since most of today's fuels contain 10% ethanol in most locations and alcohol attracts moisture. Even without the Eth gas, combustion produces moisture anyway and an ester only oil plus water would eventually be a problem.
I can't speak for other oil companies but we use a proprietary blend of Group IV and Group V base oils. There are advantages and disadvantages to both types so a special combination of both actually works best. If you are lubing turbines esters rock.
Finding out abt e85 breaking down the oil fast because of the acids it produces is really a concern now for me since I run that fuel and my car made good power with it.Talked to an amsoil rep and he said I need a high TBN oil of 12.1 and is good at neutralizing acids from fuels that produces high amounts of acids .He also mentioned that I make sure I use at least a TBN of 10 and change oil every 1500miles ????? For those that want to know what TBN means , is 'total base number' which is a measure of lubricants reserve alkalinity , and determines how effective the controls of the acids formed will be during combustion process ..The higher the TBN , the more effective it is in suspending wear - causing contaminants and reducing the corrosive effect of acids ..Sorry for not doing paragraphs guys , typing from my celphone ..
Having been around E85 cars for a while, and our experiences, we have never used special oils or done anything different from a regular gas powered vehicle. I have yet to see an engine failure due to just making the switch to E85. Just make sure you have enough fuel volume and that you're tuner knows what he's doing.
Using diesel oils is a good idea for performance cars anyways as they carry more zinc and lubricants.
The higher acid content in e85 probably explains why a lot of parts look brand new after running e85. I am almost glad we don't have e85 close enough to me.
Having been around E85 cars for a while, and our experiences, we have never used special oils or done anything different from a regular gas powered vehicle. I have yet to see an engine failure due to just making the switch to E85. Just make sure you have enough fuel volume and that you're tuner knows what he's doing.
Using diesel oils is a good idea for performance cars anyways as they carry more zinc and lubricants.
Yes your right , but my idea here is trying to determine how a motor longevity will be if it is daily driven on E85 ..where lubrication can play a big role during the usual 3k mile oil change interval ..I'm sure a lot of guys using e85 in here aren't daily driven cars so using it at the track on a Wednesday night or a dyno sesh with fresh oil wouldn't be an issue ..I'm trying to find out if is true I got to change the oil evry 1500 miles if car is daily driven on flex fuel and not wait til it has 3k miles ..also what would be the best oil due to the fact of e85 thinning the oil
Last edited by bambinov8; 01-19-2012 at 10:30 AM..
Also found this quite interesting from the oil folks in Australia and their knowledge of e85 + oil : :00 AM
Guy's.
I have worked in the oil industry for many years, specialising in Automotive, Earthmoving, Transport, Mining and industrial. Also I have been lucky enough to be racing cars since the 1990's
Currently I am racing in improved Production in a S14a 200sx My website, its obviously a built engine and we are using Power Plus E85.
When considering which oil to use, always check the manufactures recommendations. However when racing you may want to consider different viscosities (thickness). I use a United Oil product, which is the company i am currently working for. Please dont get caught up in marketing hype, all the reputable brands are good!
The most important thing when using E85 is to change your oil regularly, E85 destroys it. Also, to meet the new API rating "SN" the oil must be suitable for use with E85 fuel. So, when shopping for your oil, you really should be looking for an API "SN" oil. API "S" specs . Now this is where you will find it hard. To meet API "SN" the oil must also meet stringint fuel consumption tests, which means in most cases the oil will be thin. Also, like someone said earlier the base oil is likely to be a "Hydrocrack" which is not a "proper" synthetic. Hydrocrack Synthetics are still are very good product, infact most people on here will be using hydrocrack synthetics and not even know it. Hydrocraks can struggle a bit in ultra high temp racing applications as they can tend fume of their lighter solvents and leave only the thicker oil in the sump. You sometimes can see this as the catch can will have fuems coming out and may also leave some oil in the catch can.
So, ideally if you are using E85 in a racecar you will want full synthetic (PAO/Ester) that meets API "SN", but I dont think its available yet. The next best thing is an API "SM" that is a PAO/Ester synthetic and a viscosity that suits your requirments and CHANGE IT VERY OFTEN! If you are using E85 in a road car that does the occasional track sprint or drag race choose an API "SN" hydrocrack, I think the thickest you will find is a 5w40 or 5w50. United GX Racing API SN
FYI I use United Ulimax 10w60 SM (PAO/Ester) in my E85 200sx but also sell United 1 5w50 SM (PAO/Ester)to fellow racers using E85 in their racecars including some hardcore RB engines on E85, we change it after every race meeting. http://www.united-oi...AX%20RACING.pdfUnited 1 United Ultimax 10w60
People say the oil thins out when using E85 but from my experience I think thats incorrect. Its more like using Methanol, the oil congeals like having water in your oil!
When using AV Gas in our FD RX7 race car (500hp 13b Turbo) we use to get a full season out of our engine oil, so thats 8 race meetings and 4 practice days, thats 380 laps or 850kms. Now on E85 using the same oil we have to change it after every meeting.
I hope this helps, if you feel I am incorrect or if you have a question pleas elet me know
I saw a couple of evo guys pull their oil out and get it tested after 3 and 5k intervals and from what they showed didn't seem to have much problems...let me try and dig it up!
) for automotive use since most of today's fuels contain 10% ethanol in most locations and alcohol attracts moisture. Even without the Eth gas, combustion produces moisture anyway and an ester only oil plus water would eventually be a problem.
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