You don't understand why we flame people for this because you've only been on here for 8 months. Stick around a few years (or just go back through the archives now) and you'll start shaking your head too. If you spend an hour reading in the terminator forum, you can get a very good handle on what your car will & will not sustain as well as the reasons why. Everybody with half a brain knows the stock engines WILL NOT endure high speed runs due to a tight PTW clearance ratio coupled with the lack of a proper coolant escape passage in the heads. Excessive heat build-up = dead terminator. It's that simple. The information is there & free, yet so many people refuse to acknowledge & implement it choosing instead to come crying after the fact. No sympathy from me and apparently little to none from the rest of the terminator crowd.
Is the "cooling mod" that circulates the dead-end coolant in the head(s) the answer to most of the problem?
Is the "cooling mod" that circulates the dead-end coolant in the head(s) the answer to most of the problem?
no new pistons is
cooling mods helps.
4.6 DOHC HEAD COOLING MOD
Introduction to the Even Flow Cooling Mod
Engine modifications seeking to increase horsepower and torque will also increase the amount of heat generated by the engine. Under ideal circumstances the cooling system as a whole would have adequate capacity to carry excess heat away from the cylinder heads and engine block, keeping cylinder block and head temperatures in a working range that allows proper warm-up, yet prevents excessive temperatures, which lead to pre-ignition, detonation, and overheat conditions. The widespread availability of high flow cylinder heads, superchargers, turbochargers, and nitrous oxide for these modular power plants has allowed modern day sstreet cars to make 2-3 times the horsepower and torque the manufacturer intended. Naturally, excess heat is a by-product of this extra power.
A common issue that has generated significant interest and discussion has been the lack of coolant flow at the rear section of the drivers side cylinder head on Mustang applications (Other chassis applications with a 4.6 DOHC engine may also suffer this potential issue on the passenger head also). From 2002 through the present date, Ford has revised the part number for the driver?s side head 3 times for the supercharged Cobras. Many owners and tuners believe that cooling issues, combined with inadequate spark plug threads in the earlier head design, contributed to problems such as bad valve guides, audible ticking noises from the driver?s side head, spark plugs getting blown out of the cylinder heads, pistons being overheated, and cylinder bore scoring, sometimes requiring engine replacement. High boost pressures, sustained high-speed runs, and bad tunes contribute substantially to these potential problems.
The passenger side cylinder head (in Mustang applications) has a distinct advantage over the driver?s side head. The passenger side head is equipped from the factory with a fitting that allows hot engine coolant at the rear of the head to flow through the heater core and eventually find its way to the back of the water pump for continued circulation. The driver?s side head, from the factory, has no such provision. As such, the superheated coolant must find its way back to the front of the cylinder head before being circulated into the radiator. It is believed the factory design allows this superheated coolant to pool near cylinders #7 and #8 too long, keeping those cylinders at a higher temperature and/or a higher rate of temperature gain than the others. To complicate matters further, a vehicle that has the ability to generate a higher level of acceleration force will effectively counteract the movement of coolant from the back of the engine to the front. Is it just a coincidence that a majority of engine problems in power adder applications bein have identified these rear cylinders as most the common?
In an effort combat this issue aftermarket companies have attempted to use/modify a factory Ford fitting, allowing it to be installed in a rear freeze plug location on the driver?s side head. The coolant flow from the driver?s side head is then merged with the passenger side head before being routed through the heater core and back to the water pump. On some aftermarket kits, transmission removal is a necessity for installation.
THIS IS THE FIRST AREA WHERE THE EVEN FLOW COOLING MOD DIFFERS. THE INSTALLATION OF THE EVEN FLOW COOLING MOD DOES NOT REQUIRE TRANSMISSION REMOVAL AND IS PERFORMED FROM THE TOP OF THE VEHICLE (BLOWER REMOVAL IS NECESSARY)
Aftermarket companies using the factory Ford/modified fitting tie the driver?s side and passenger side head?s coolant flow together and then route the coolant through the heater core and back into a metal tube that runs under the intake and terminates at the rear of the water pump for circulation back into the engine (Note: NOT through the radiator)
THIS IS THE SECOND AREA WHERE THE EVEN FLOW KIT DIFFERS IN ITS DESIGN.
The Even Flow Kit creates a completely separate path for the driver?s side coolant and routes it directly to the radiator via a custom fabricated aluminum ?T? that installs in the upper radiator hose. The passenger side coolant flow remains in the stock configuration, except for the removal of the INNER restrictor that is located in the inlet hose to the heater core. Once the above modifications are complete, both rear cylinder heads will be flowing coolant through restrictions that are approximately .370-.390 thus maintaining EQUAL coolant flow. Additionally, two completely separate coolant paths are used instead of merging the coolant at the heater core and attempting to double the coolant flow through a single given restriction.
____________________________________ 1998 Mustang w/20k mile Terminator motor, home ported and polished blower/plenum/TB, T56, solid axel swap w/327 gear, MM lower control arms, FRPP upper control arms, Mac catback, Magnaflow catted X pipe, 2.76 BF ultragrip pulley, LFP aux idler, Mafia, NGK TR6 (@.35), twin GT fuel pumps (stock FPDM), 60# injectors, Evenflow Gen II head cooling mod, Reische Performance 170* T-stat, moded OEM clutch adjuster, NX wet 75-100 shot, NX purge (Lightning Solenoids), MSD RPM window switch, WOT micro switch, diablo revolutions flip chip w/ 2 switchable tunes, Steeda Tri Ax shifter, 100% terminator interrior, Saleen S351 wing, Saleen HE hood, Saleen hyperblack wheels,..work in progress waiting to install..bottle warmer, digital window switch
4.6 DOHC HEAD COOLING MOD
Introduction to the Even Flow Cooling Mod
Engine modifications seeking to increase horsepower and torque will also increase the amount of heat generated by the engine. Under ideal circumstances the cooling system as a whole would have adequate capacity to carry excess heat away from the cylinder heads and engine block, keeping cylinder block and head temperatures in a working range that allows proper warm-up, yet prevents excessive temperatures, which lead to pre-ignition, detonation, and overheat conditions. The widespread availability of high flow cylinder heads, superchargers, turbochargers, and nitrous oxide for these modular power plants has allowed modern day sstreet cars to make 2-3 times the horsepower and torque the manufacturer intended. Naturally, excess heat is a by-product of this extra power.
A common issue that has generated significant interest and discussion has been the lack of coolant flow at the rear section of the drivers side cylinder head on Mustang applications (Other chassis applications with a 4.6 DOHC engine may also suffer this potential issue on the passenger head also). From 2002 through the present date, Ford has revised the part number for the driver?s side head 3 times for the supercharged Cobras. Many owners and tuners believe that cooling issues, combined with inadequate spark plug threads in the earlier head design, contributed to problems such as bad valve guides, audible ticking noises from the driver?s side head, spark plugs getting blown out of the cylinder heads, pistons being overheated, and cylinder bore scoring, sometimes requiring engine replacement. High boost pressures, sustained high-speed runs, and bad tunes contribute substantially to these potential problems.
The passenger side cylinder head (in Mustang applications) has a distinct advantage over the driver?s side head. The passenger side head is equipped from the factory with a fitting that allows hot engine coolant at the rear of the head to flow through the heater core and eventually find its way to the back of the water pump for continued circulation. The driver?s side head, from the factory, has no such provision. As such, the superheated coolant must find its way back to the front of the cylinder head before being circulated into the radiator. It is believed the factory design allows this superheated coolant to pool near cylinders #7 and #8 too long, keeping those cylinders at a higher temperature and/or a higher rate of temperature gain than the others. To complicate matters further, a vehicle that has the ability to generate a higher level of acceleration force will effectively counteract the movement of coolant from the back of the engine to the front. Is it just a coincidence that a majority of engine problems in power adder applications bein have identified these rear cylinders as most the common?
In an effort combat this issue aftermarket companies have attempted to use/modify a factory Ford fitting, allowing it to be installed in a rear freeze plug location on the driver?s side head. The coolant flow from the driver?s side head is then merged with the passenger side head before being routed through the heater core and back to the water pump. On some aftermarket kits, transmission removal is a necessity for installation.
THIS IS THE FIRST AREA WHERE THE EVEN FLOW COOLING MOD DIFFERS. THE INSTALLATION OF THE EVEN FLOW COOLING MOD DOES NOT REQUIRE TRANSMISSION REMOVAL AND IS PERFORMED FROM THE TOP OF THE VEHICLE (BLOWER REMOVAL IS NECESSARY)
Aftermarket companies using the factory Ford/modified fitting tie the driver?s side and passenger side head?s coolant flow together and then route the coolant through the heater core and back into a metal tube that runs under the intake and terminates at the rear of the water pump for circulation back into the engine (Note: NOT through the radiator)
THIS IS THE SECOND AREA WHERE THE EVEN FLOW KIT DIFFERS IN ITS DESIGN.
The Even Flow Kit creates a completely separate path for the driver?s side coolant and routes it directly to the radiator via a custom fabricated aluminum ?T? that installs in the upper radiator hose. The passenger side coolant flow remains in the stock configuration, except for the removal of the INNER restrictor that is located in the inlet hose to the heater core. Once the above modifications are complete, both rear cylinder heads will be flowing coolant through restrictions that are approximately .370-.390 thus maintaining EQUAL coolant flow. Additionally, two completely separate coolant paths are used instead of merging the coolant at the heater core and attempting to double the coolant flow through a single given restriction.
Wow, thanks for the comprehensive answer - is the LFP cooling mod similar?
LFP probably (?) takes coolant from the rear freezeplug on the back of the drivers side head and re routes it to the heater core, or back of the pass head.
I like the evenflow because it sends the hot coolant from the back of the drivers head back to the radiator not to another area of the coolant system further adding to higher temps elsewhere. Plus the evenflow can be installed w/o pulling the transmission.
1988 Red GT - sold
1990 Blue LX / 150 nitrous 10 sec car -sold
1989 BlacK Gt 12 sec car - sold
2001 Blue Gt 12 sec car - total loss
2000 F-150 Lighting 13 sec - sold
1999 Saleen/150 Nitrous 12 sec car - total loss
2004 Cobra /100 nitrous 11sec car
For all you that make the comment about my spelling ,I living in this country for 14 years I serve 3 years in my country army ( cuba) I enter this country on a raft on 1994 with no family or any friend ,on 1995 I sign for 8 years reserve on the MARINE CORP ( 2nd division -motor transportation ) ,today day I working as Training Manager for a big Company who ownes more than 800 restaurants my point is ,is our hart and what we do on this live what difeine us as at person ,but any way f____ you all and thank for all the peaple who help me .
I applaud you on your many achievements and you are a strong person to have survived the many hardships that many of us will, thankfully, never have to experience. Your comment above is perfect...until the last sentence. Why do you choose to lower yourself to such a low level like some of the other people on this site? Listen, I respect you completely and your original question was valid, but assholes are all over the world. If you keep allowing them to get to you and lowering yourself to their level, people will view you just as bad as them. Given your extraordinary life circumstances that many of us take for granted, you should rise above these people and just laugh it off. Maybe at one time some of those people made the same mistake you did while racing, and people made fun of them. So, now they want to feel better about themselves so they are doing the same to you. That's just elementary behavior....they're kids. Physically they are old, but mentally they are still stuck in high school. Don't lower yourself to that level. I don't mean to criticize you, just a suggestion. By the way, although your english is poor at best, I applaud you for your effort. I doubt many people here are able to speak fluent spanish or write it clearly anyway. Hey, go to spanishtranslation.com and you can type in spanish then it will convert it to english for you. Then, you can copy and paste it here. Best of luck with your car.
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Last edited by ScottsdaleSnake; 11-20-2008 at 10:16 PM.
I applaud you on your many achievements and you are a strong person to have survived the many hardships that many of us will, thankfully, never have to experience. Your comment above is perfect...until the last sentence. Why do you choose to lower yourself to such a low level like some of the other people on this site? Listen, I respect you completely and your original question was valid, but assholes are all over the world. If you keep allowing them to get to you and lowering yourself to their level, people will view you just as bad as them. Given your extraordinary life circumstances that many of us take for granted, you should rise above these people and just laugh it off. Maybe at one time some of those people made the same mistake you did while racing, and people made fun of them. So, now they want to feel better about themselves so they are doing the same to you. That's just elementary behavior....they're kids, bro. Physically they are old, but mentally they are still stuck in high school. Don't lower yourself to that level. I don't mean to criticize you, just a suggestion. By the way, although your english is poor at best, I applaud you for your effort. I doubt many people here are able to speak fluent spanish or write it clearly anyway. Hey, go to spanishtranslation.com and you can type in spanish then it will convert it to english for you. Then, you can copy and paste it here. Best of luck with your car.
Very insightful and one of the best responses I've seen in a long time.
____________________________________ New Eaton TVS 2.3 under the hood! Tuned by Justin at VMP Tuning-10.45@134 w/1.57 60' Powered by Lethal Performance
my motor blew as well. not as bad as yours it sounds like though. i rebuilt my current motor. used the stock crank and rods along with cp pistons and rings. from what i couold tell and the builders thought there was not a whole lot out there better than the stock rods. he thought we could go to a set of oliver rods but the gain would not justify the cost. i bored the block .20 over to eliminate the scraping in the cylinder walls. mine was just one bad cylinder that the ringlands decided to go out in. not sure how bad yours is.
this guy is right. but gen 2 head cooling mod will help much also gords HE. lol
let me light u up guys, when the heat in pistons r too much pistons will expand rusults in hitting the cylinder wall from the poor cooling, tell me why its the drivers side #7 and #8 usually fails because of the poor cooling. that's why u have to hate heaton and the twin screws.
this guy is right. but gen 2 head cooling mod will help much also gords HE. lol
let me light u up guys, when the heat in pistons r too much pistons will expand rusults in hitting the cylinder wall from the poor cooling, tell me why its the drivers side #7 and #8 usually fails because of the poor cooling. that's why u have to hate heaton and the twin screws.
Upgraded HEs, do nothing to help this problem. They do not make the car run any cooler.
Piston #7 and #8 fail most frequently because they run the hottest. Head cooling mods are a band aid because coolant does not cool the pistons - fuel and oil do. Head cooling mods do more to eliminate the possibility of getting the head "tick".
just so everyone know the race was only to 145, im the owner of the ''catfish'' that he was racing. the video should be up shortly, and if im not mistaken there was a camera in cobra. my camaro is a cam only car that runs 12.70 and traps 118 not a fully built car running 10's.
Upgraded HEs, do nothing to help this problem. They do not make the car run any cooler.
Piston #7 and #8 fail most frequently because they run the hottest. Head cooling mods are a band aid because coolant does not cool the pistons - fuel and oil do. Head cooling mods do more to eliminate the possibility of getting the head "tick".
actually HE does help, it lows the intake temperature that detonates our motors with the heaton. tell me something (have u ever see alot of guys w/ a pulley swap like 2.76 still on the stock HE that they survived from blowing there motos with a 1000's mileage)? no.
ur not paying attention, in my post i say "tell me why its the drivers side #7 and #8" and not those other pistons. now look this page carefully http://www.lightningforceperformance...n-2-p-547.html the write on the page says "This is because of Ford's failure to provide adequate cooling to the #7 and #8 cylinder jackets on the driver's side head creating hot spots/steam pockets in and around the cylinders (aiding in potential detonation)" that's what making the pistos go loco. lol
actually HE does help, it lows the intake temperature that detonates our motors with the heaton. tell me something (have u ever see alot of guys w/ a pulley swap like 2.76 still on the stock HE that they survived from blowing there motos with a 1000's mileage)? no.
ur not paying attention, in my post i say "tell me why its the drivers side #7 and #8" and not those other pistons. now look this page carefully http://www.lightningforceperformance...n-2-p-547.html the write on the page says "This is because of Ford's failure to provide adequate cooling to the #7 and #8 cylinder jackets on the driver's side head creating hot spots/steam pockets in and around the cylinders (aiding in potential detonation)" that's what making the pistos go loco. lol
On a high speed run the HE does not really make a difference at the speeds we are talking about. There is so much air that the benefits are negated. The HE helps at lower speeds and in traffic. The factory one is actally pretty good.
EVERY street engine has pistons that run hotter than others. This is not a race motor, and as such should not be tuned like one. You don't tune away detonation with more coolant, you do it through proper tuning.
Like I said, I ran it up to 150 probably 40 times yesterday. All I have for cooling is a fluidyne radiator and a thermostat. At that speed I was seeing about 1500* F EGT off the drivers side cylinder bank.
Last edited by LargeOrangeFont; 11-24-2008 at 10:12 AM.
On a high speed run the HE does not really make a difference at the speeds we are talking about. There is so much air that the benefits are negated. The HE helps at lower speeds and in traffic. The factory one is actally pretty good.
EVERY street engine has pistons that run hotter than others. This is not a race motor, and as such should not be tuned like one. You don't tune away detonation with more coolant, you do it through proper tuning.
Like I said, I ran it up to 150 probably 40 times yesterday. All I have for cooling is a fluidyne radiator and a thermostat. At that speed I was seeing about 1500* F EGT off the drivers side cylinder bank.
i totally agree with u on those facts, but when engine fails at high speed usually the last cylinders in the driver side head fails, it's somehow related to the driver head cooling issues?.
i just don't want to tear my engine apart just to fix the problem. lol
here let me shed a little light on what this guy has done... and if he has done everything he said he has then he needs a better tuner. because the camaro he was running only puts down 400ish rwhp
I thought the guy he raced posted (here) that it was a cam only car that traps 118? If that was the car he raced, then clearly the motor was already fried at the start of the race. If he was racing a 600rwhp car, then it looked reasonable (until it went BOOM). Pullied Eaton/N20 cars make around 600-650rwhp (100 shot -like the OP), and camaros are lighter IIRC. Besides what has already been beaten to death, certainly fuel and tune weren't helping any......
Nitrous is nasty dirty whore, and if you don't watch and bitchslap it constantly, it will steal your money -speaking from experience (methaphorically of course).
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11.16 @ DA 6000' Eaton only
10.65 @ DA 7876' Whipple
9.87 @ DA 7154' Whipple/N2O (1.36 60')
Last edited by ricksterman; 12-15-2008 at 11:52 PM.
with your car.
pistons will expand rusults in hitting the cylinder wall from the poor cooling, tell me why its the drivers side #7 and #8 usually fails because of the poor cooling. that's why u have to hate heaton and the twin screws.
Linear Mode
