meth kits on 03 cobras?

[Mr.GSXR1000]

Just wondering if anyone on here has pictures of how they plummed there methanol kits and were they did it. What kind they used and what kind of hp difference was there. Im thinking about getting a snow performance meth kit and was wanting to research before i got it. thakns and just let me know:beer:

 

[SVTDom]

Imo I wouldn't run any meth kit but the aquamist hf 5 or hfs 6 kit all other kits are garbage compared to the aquamist kits. This your motor on the line don't cheap out on a junk kit. Normally you will see gains around 70 +- hp gain

 

[GodStang]

http://www.svtperformance.com/forum...483-anyone-using-methanol-there-03-cobra.html

do a search. For the most part does not work that great unless you run it post blower. So shops did before and after dynos and lost like 3rwhp. Just does not work for the PD blowers like the turbos and centries.

I never seen anyone get 10rwhp let alone 70.

 

[SVTDom]

I don't no too much about meth on cobras my knowledge came from my old evo so godstang may be right about power

 

[andress]

ive heard u get some power off the meth kits anyone here running on meth n if yeah how much power did you get out of it

 

[novi2000]

From what I understand the IAT decrease is not as much with pre blower but you still get the octane increase which is still a benefit.

 

[95SC]

Like stated before they don't work well on PD blowers but do great job on turbos and cetri blowers .My brother is running one on his Vortech car ,gain about 40 rwhp and intake temp dropped by 70* .

 

[novi2000]

Like stated before they don't work well on PD blowers but do great job on turbos and cetri blowers .My brother is running one on his Vortech car ,gain about 40 rwhp and intake temp dropped by 70* .

I guess it depends on what he is looking for as far as working well, if its a drastic drop in IAT2 temps compared to non PD cars no. If he is looking for the extra octane or extra fuel capacity it works well (using 100% methonal).

 

[Robertp]

Actually they do work great on a roots blower ive got and /www.alcoholinjectionsystems.com and its on and eaton m112 non intercooled pulled over 100 degrees of air charge out and picked up around 55-60rwhp on my 4.6 2v but again its not intercooled and i highly doubt this setup would work well on my cobra being its intercooled, but for vortechs or PD blowers that arent intercooled it rocks and talk about timing i can run 25-26 degrees of timing no spark knock but then again 26 is past peak power but just saying it can be done and i only run minus 20 washer fluid

Robert

 

[Posi]

Has to be run post blower to get the benefits from it.

 

[SVTDom]

^^ what brian said. I just read up on it.

 

[SlowSVT]

Water injection systems have never been a popular mod with the Terminator. No need stating what the outcome would be if you tuned the car to make maximum hp with the system and it should fail or you run the tank out :uh oh:

 

[Robertp]

On my non intercooled m112 if the tank runs out and air charge goes up it pulls timing, but as said before on and intercooled terminater your prolly only talking 10 hp

 

[1badblownstang]

maybe only 10hp when it comes to the IAT temp drops because of the IC. But if you tune the car for added timing you can put in because of the huge octane boost you can see serious gains. Meth makes normal fuel into race gas (octane level wise), so you can have a race gas tune when you want to run meth. There are many safe guards you can buy with the kits to make them safe. You can set them to only come on and spray at or above certain boost levels also, such as only over 10 psi.

It makes absolutly no difference what kind of power adder you have, more octane means more timing and more timing means more power. It's amazing that standard 2 dollar a bottle windshield washer fluid can turn 90 octane gas into 116.

Now, if you were to add a meth system to an ICed car without tuning it then you might even see less hp. Why? because more octane is not always better. If your not tuned for more octane (read more timing) then you can see drops in hp. Higher octane simply means the fuel does not burn as quickly, which results in less chance for detonation. But if your car is tuned for 93 and you run 116, the fuel will actually burn to slow. It's the reason why many tuners recommend running 109 instead of 116 when you want to run race gas.

 

[Avenger]

It's amazing that standard 2 dollar a bottle windshield washer fluid can turn 90 octane gas into 116.

Wrong ! Now might be a good time to start seriously reading on this subject. :read:

From my research, you'll gain 3-4 AKI points MAX with meth injection. Meth will boost Research Octane Number but doesn't do much for Motor Octane Number, which is what is most important. You might turn 87 into 90 or 91 if you're lucky. The additional timing you can run comes primarily from the cooling of the air charge, not some miraculous anti knock properties of methanol.

Nothing beats race fuel, except maybe that damn ethanol... :thumbsup:

 

[1badblownstang]

Wrong ! Now might be a good time to start seriously reading on this subject. :read:

From my research, you'll gain 3-4 AKI points MAX with meth injection. Meth will boost Research Octane Number but doesn't do much for Motor Octane Number, which is what is most important. You might turn 87 into 90 or 91 if you're lucky. The additional timing you can run comes primarily from the cooling of the air charge, not some miraculous anti knock properties of methanol.

Nothing beats race fuel, except maybe that damn ethanol... :thumbsup:

Actually you are wrong and I have read up on and ran Meth, how about you?

Heres a little reading for you: (make sure you read #7 slowly, LOL)

Naturally aspirated/high compression engines:
Water/Methanol injection allows the use of pump fuel in all but the most extreme situations which effects tremendous cost savings as well as horsepower increases due to air density increase and higher timing advance potential.

• Engines using nitrous:
With nitrous, water/methanol injection allows the use of more timing advance even with large (250HP+) quantities. The cooling effect of the water/methanol inside the combustion chamber also makes for reduced peak combustion temperatures.

• Naturally aspirated/stock compression:
With naturally aspirated engines using less than 10:1 compression, water/methanol is used often in warm climates to get the intake temps lower. Benefits include: 10-15 HP increases from air density increases and full timing as well as more effective air/fuel ratios, increased gas mileage, and carbon free combustion chambers.

While power gains are typically less in stock compression naturally aspirated vehicles compared to high compression or forced induction engines, benefits can still be realized due to more timing advance, leaner air/fuel ratios, cleaner engine components, lower temperatures, and the use of the methanol in the injection fluid as a secondary fuel source.


3. Does the Snow Performance system work a carbureted application?
Yes.
• We have systems for carbureted vehicles without superchargers or turbochargers. They inject according to vacuum and deliver 20-25 point octane gains over regular pump gas when using a 50/50 mix of water/methanol.
• Any Snow Performance system can be used with or feature the special 4150 or 4500 style carb plates as well. MC and RT series systems include the carb plates.
• Many muscle cars that previously required expensive high octane fuel now use regular pump gas with our system while getting better performance. These cars can use our MC (naturally aspirated) and RT (supercharged or turbocharged) series systems for a clean installation and great results.


4. What power gains can I expect?
Boost Coolers® allow for more power in two ways on a gasoline application.
• Extra octane. This allows for much more aggressive tuning safely to make more power. Timing can often be advanced 10 or more degrees in the power band. Boost can often be increased 5 or more PSI. Air/fuel ratios of around 12.5:1 can be utilized even in high boost applications.
• Better cooling of the intake air charge. We often cool intake air temperatures 50-150 degrees. This means denser air charge for more efficient power.

If these methods are used, a 20% increase in HP is possible. In naturally aspirated applications, gains of 5-10% are possible.


5. Can the Snow Performance system improve my fuel economy?
Yes. The MPG-MAX™ systems are designed to do just that. Both the diesel and gasoline MPG-MAX™ systems are specifically designed to inject a very small and precise amount of water/methanol under normal driving conditions such as accelerating away from a stop light or driving up a slight grade.

• The extra 20-25 points of octane provided allows for more spark timing advance and a leaner air/fuel ratio with the use of a programmer. Both of these factors not only improve power, their efficiency gains improve mileage as well. Additionally, many modern cars will detect the combustion of the methanol and reduce the injection of gasoline accordingly through the adjustment of long-term fuel trim values in the vehicles computer. This can directly and positively impact gasoline fuel economy. Gains of 5-15% are possible depending on how the vehicle is tuned and driven.


6. What fluid can I use in my system?
• Boost Juice®: This is the best fluid to use and is Snow Performance’s 49% methanol, 51% water mixture that can be shipped to your door or picked up at a local dealer. (If you are using your washer reservoir as the injection tank, Boost Juice® is a great washer fluid – works as a de-icer!)
• Windshield Washer fluid: Only if it is blue in color and rated for -20 deg F. It should have no special additives. This means it is safe to use and made of about 30% methanol, 70% water. If it is another color or another temperature rating, do not use it.
• You can “spike” your Blue -20 Washer fluid to a 50% mixture by adding 2 yellow bottles of Heet® gas-line-antifreeze to every gallon of washer fluid.
• Mix your own: You just need to make sure the methanol is “neat” and contains no lubricants or other additives. We recommend a 50% mixture.
• Ethanol: It is not as good as methanol, but it can be used as a 2nd best option if you can’t find methanol. It can also be mixed with water up to 50%.
• Do NOT use E85 or any other fluid with gasoline mixed in. It will destroy the fluid delivery part of your Boost Cooler® and instantly void the warranty.
• Isopropyl/Denatured Alcohols: These can be used, but are not as good as methanol. They have a lower BTU, or energy content, and a lower latent heat of vaporization (fancy way of saying how much heat they absorb) as well as a lower octane rating compared to methanol.


7. Why Methanol?
Methanol is a very high octane fuel that is extremely resistant to detonation with an excellent cost/benefit ratio. Its high latent heat of vaporization also makes it an excellent air charge cooler which means a denser mixture and more horsepower. Because of these characteristics, it suppresses detonation more effectively than ethanol or iso-propanol although they will work in a pinch. It is toxic and should be handled with rubber gloves in well ventilated areas only. Care should be taken to avoid skin contact.


8. Where can I purchase Methanol?
• Snow Performance sells 51/49 water/methanol mix as Boost Juice™ (see products). If this is used exclusively, Snow Performance can lifetime warranty a system so long as the free registration card is sent in soon after purchase.
• Methanol can generally be purchased where racing fuels are sold. Also, most gas line dryers like "Heet" are simply methanol. Suppliers of industrial chemicals can also supply methanol for a very reasonable price. Ensure that the methanol is "neat" and therefore has no additives or lubricants added by the supplier.
• -20 degree F rated, blue windshield washer fluid is acceptable for use as well, and is available at most service stations. Although some fluids rated to under -20 degrees F contain glycol and other copolymers, most windshield washer fluids are up to 40% methanol. Try to find one that displays "contains methanol" on the label and is good to -20 degrees F, with no additives or special ingredients and is blue in color.
• Methanol can be purchased on the web at World Wide Racing Fuels in Richmond Virginia and HIPERFUELS.COM.
• Additionally, many sprint car drivers and circle track and drag racers use methanol as a primary fuel. They often have methanol on hand and will even sell methanol that has been un-sealed for a long time at a very low price. Just be sure that the methanol has NO additives or lubricants (such as top lube), as they are not needed and can damage the pump.



9. What ratio of water/methanol is recommended?
• A 50/50 ratio is recommended. This has been demonstrated to be the best for charge/air cooling, excellent detonation control, and safety.

• Ratios of anywhere from 30% to 50% methanol work well and deliver excellent octane gains and cooling.


10. Can I use pure methanol?
While all components of Snow Performance systems are designed to be able to handle pure methanol, it is not recommended for a number of reasons.

• Safety: Pure methanol is easy to ignite and burns with an almost invisible flame.
• Performance: Water absorbs twice as much heat as methanol in the intake and inside the combustion chamber. Water cannot be flash-ignited, so has what is almost an infinite octane number. In the government studies for WWII piston-powered aircraft, 50/50 water-methanol was found to be the best fluid to use for auxiliary fluid injection.
• Tuning and Engine reliability: Injecting 50/50 water-methanol will prevent over-injection. If too much is injected, it will quench the flame front and the engine will bog and lose power. If too much straight methanol is injected, this will not happen, as methanol is very forgiving of rich mixtures. This could instead lead to explosive backfires, cylinder wash, etc. which will not happen when 50% or more water is in the mixture.

 

[Avenger]

LMAO at information taken from a vendor's website. :lol:

Here's some feedback from end users and more technical information including graphs showing the MON rating increase based on %meth injected.

Meth results summary thread - ModularFords.com

Turning 90 octane into 116 race fuel with windshield washer, you might want to stop drinking the Cool Aid :rollseyes

 

[GTCobraClone]

From what Ive heard, meth is good but you run the risk of warping your supercharger blades. The blades dont burn the meth, and meth cant be compressed so you get the point. Its like when water enters the cylinders, it cant be compressed so in that case the engine hydrolocks. I preffer running a killer chiller although it is more expensive

 

[HP Solutions]

post blower and intercooler is the only way to take full advantage of meth/water injection

 

[MRL Performance]

i have done a few pd meth setups with mixed results. nozzle placement is the key, and it will work. 2 examples, i did an 03 cobra mods include-ported blower(by me), accufab inlet and tb, 2.76 upper/stock lower, bbk longtubes, offroad x, magnaflow cat bac. on that setup the car laid down 485/492 on a dynojet at operating temp, 94 octane, 19 deg timing, 12.0 af. i put in a basic snow kit with the nozzle(675) right before the throttle body, added 3 degrees of timing, leaned out the basic af to 12.5 and the car piced up 25rwhp and 30ftlbs. on the meth the af is about 11.5-11.7 and iats dropped by about 20-30 degrees on a 50/50 mix.

the other one i just finished is a 2010 gt500. mods are, stage 3 kenne bell with a 2.5" pulley(24lbs of boost), kooks long tubes and full 3" exhaust, complete fore fuel system using stock injectors and a bap. everyone told me, including kenne bell, that this car will never run on pump gas without a death tune, but i figured what's the worst that can happen. so i rigged up a twin nozzle snow setup. one nozzle is tapped directly into the back of the blower case and sprays right onto the rotors, the other nozzle is pre throttle body like usual. using a 60/40 meth water mix, and spraying loads of it, we were able to pull a very safe 786rwhp and 717tq on 94 octane, 11.7 af and 20-21 deg timing. very successful if you ask me. we saw about 60 deg iat drops, and this is on the stock heat exchanger and resiviour, with again no ice down glory runs. here are a few pics of the 2010 setup.