I will talk with Jim Bell to see what kind of data that we have that we can post up. There have been literally thousands of test done. There has been testing done to inlet and discharge openings. Not just smoothing out but different openings as well as shapes.
Thank you,
James
So what is the reason for the inlet plate other then to mate up the case with the stock plenum?
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Current Mods:
KB 2.6L, LFP Ported Heads, LFP Stage II Cams, True Track, PSP line lock, JLP VB, LFP 4# Lower Pulley, 55# Injectors, MAF.i.a., Predator - Tuned by RWTD, 170* Tstat, NGK TR6, AutoMeter Phantom Boost/Vac, Trans temp, Oil pressure, TA Performance Rear end Cover, Dynojet WBC, Metco lowers
Upcoming Mods:
Dual 255 Fuel Pumps, DS Loop, S/B T/B
We believe that both the inlet and outlet porting of our superchargers has been optimized to the point where grinding on our billet CNC machined superchargers DOES NOT HELP. We know about how pressure loss effects efficiency. It's a very important and routine part of our kit development. There are thousands of flow and dyno tests "lying around" Kenne Bell. Much of our test data is proprietary yet, other information is not. Check out "Inlet Sytem Restriction" under "Tech, tuning and Dyno Tests" on the 4.6L GT 2.2L kit. We're not hiding anything. If our products can be improved or have limitations, we share this information with our customers. If not, we advise them to leave it as is.
Today, we finished comparison testing 4 Lightning superchargers - the stock Eaton, the 2.3 KB, the new 2.6L KB and a ported Eaton and is very interesting data. We compared inlet and outlet temps, boost, HP, torque and parasitic loss, pulley slippage, etc. and tested inlet systems, manifolds and throttle bodies at varying HP levels. Some of this data will be posted on our website soon. We are in no way trying to be difficult or evasive. It's just that we find it a little awkward to supply negative test data on "flow exactly to screw up our Twin Screw supercharger by porting, injesting throttle body screws, drilling holes in the case , filing rotors etc.". Granted "porting and re-contouring" has a smooth, effecient, horsepower ring about it that just sounds like it should be good for our superchargers. It is not, So we decline to furnish examples and test data(we do have reams of it) of how NOT to do it. Look at supercharging as a total system with the inlet tract into the supercharger being MORE important than the supercharger - all else equal.
Again, if someone wants to take a crack at it, dyno the supercharger and then install it on a vehicle and do back to back test- go for it.
Mirror polishing the inlet plate will net 2 CFM at 1500 CFM BUT - it is academic because the inlet system NEVER matches the flow capacity of the supercharger, i.e. 1500 CFM supercharger with 1300 CFM inlet. Therefore 1503 CFM is academic(no hp gain) as the supercharger flow will only be 1300 CFM because of the filter, meter, throttle body, tubing and inlet manifold.
On our supercharger "flow dyno" 2 CFM would be 2 hp IF there was a way to make the supercharger run without an inlet tract. Another example is if a throttle body flows 1000 CFM but the filter flows 800 CFM, a larger 1200 CFM throttle body will not increase HP because it's limited or regulated by the more restrictive filter. We will be posting about Inlet System Testing today.
So does NASA on a mutli million dollar space shuttle and they still have problems and make improvments so whats your point? Any time something is mass produced they have to take some shortcuts in order to make it affordable enough to be a viable product on the market. There is always room for improvment. Like I stated in my previouse post I am neither supporting or bashing anyone. But untill I see some kind of test data proveing or disproveing the porting of a twin screw I will not doubt either side. Since no one has posted anything supporting either side I am not going to change my stance.
Removing surface area (Porting) during production would not cost them anything.
If they are machining to a certain dept during production, they would not setback efficiency for a few MM of machining time to aid in manufacture savings. CNC machines are preset to machine to a certain dept during production, they would not take a short-cut for a few MM of machining. Ford does, Kenne Bell would not in a precision twin screw blower that is 20% above the cost of the competitor (WHIPPLE). You are right, they needed to save 60 seconds on each blower case design, they decided to not remove a few millimeters of material around the port.
Example of a blower company (WHIPPLE) saving production time and money, they removed the white lettering and polishing on their pulley inlet holes to save $ and time. Their new pulleys are all black now. A reputable blower company will cut cosmetics to aid in production savings, not in a cad design!
Hey James, not to hijack the thread, would you mind putting a rush on my Buddy's KB kit for his '96 svt? He's literaly leaving for Iraq next week and we'd like to get it on his mustang before he goes, because who knows if he'll come back to see it. He ordered it 7 weeks ago.
If there is anything that we can do please PM me.
BTW, I agree there is nothing you can do to a KB that will make it flow any better, other than putting a smaller pulley on it.
Last edited by r0b0t c0rpse; 08-05-2006 at 11:44 PM.
I was going to port but no need to port anymore. The new Big Bore 2.6L is the solution. I already have all the supporting mods. Hope to get it soon. The 2.6L will change alot of peoples minds from buying the new whipple. It did to me. Good work Kenne bell!
Last edited by Ltd10th03cobra; 08-09-2006 at 04:43 PM.
Please Listin to James...... He is RIGHT. Take this as an example......
We are ESTIMATING HERE NO CORRECT CFM'S JUST EQUATIONS if you should call it that.
Anyway, Lets say you have a Vaccum Cleaner that can suck 1,500 CFM. Note that it is LIMITED to a certian RPM. What would happen if you put a Bigger Hose on it, It would be less Strain on the Vac. But would you gain anything? No. You would loose Sucking power. The only thing you would gain would be the motor acheving its MAx RPM ever so slightly sooner. maybe .000001 Seconds sooner
If you dont Believe me get a Vaccum Cleaner with a 3" Hose. take it off, and PORT the housing put the 3" Hose back on. What have you accomplished? Nothing. Put a Bigger hose on it. What have you accomplished? A Bigger Inlet? YES! But will it suck harder? No, you will loose Suction. Why? There is more space for the air to be. Why? Because thats just the way it is.
The only Way you will get your "Old level of suction" back is to install a bigger Motor with a higher RPM (Thus in the account of adding a SMALLER PULLY to make the S/C achieve a higher RPM.) MORE SUCTION!!!!!!!!!!!!
It is like this......
EXAMPLE #1
Vaccum Cleaner 5hp motor = KB 2.3L
Port the Housing (Lets call this the Throttle Body) On the Vaccum Cleaner. What happens? Nothing, just a bigger hole for more air to be drawn into. Does this mean more Suction? No because you still have the same size hose. (Lets compare this to an intake pipe) What if i put a bigger hose on it? Nothing, You will still draw the same ammount of air Because of the Motor's RPM and suction force. What will give me more suction? A bigger motor with a higher RPM. Why? Physics blame them not the vaccum cleaner.
Follow up example from #1
KB 2.3L, Port the housing. Why? To void your warrenty, waste your time. and screw up the we shall call it.... THE AERODYNAMICS (for people that dont understand Atmospheric Conditions).
Person #1: If I grind it out it will suck more air in right?
Me: No, it will only suck in as much as your air filter and KB can pull in.
Person #1: If i put a better Filter on it.
Me: Agian, it will only suck in as much as your KB Can pull in.
Person #1 If I put bigger screws in it?
Me: No! *SLAP SLAP SLAP* You cant do that have you been living under a rock? THIS IS SO EASY A CAVEMAN CAN DO IT!!!!!
The only way to get MORE air. is to
A.) GET A SMALLER PULLY INCREASE BOOST DRAW MORE AIR
B.) GET A BIGGER TWIN SCREW!!!!!!!!!!
Like a wise man once said.... "If you dont know what your doing,... DON'T **** WITH IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
end rant....
James Am I right, or am I wrong on my theroy? I know its a rough figure and a insult to the Awesome KB to compare it to a 5hp vaccum cleaner.... but its the only way That some of these meat heads will understand.....
PS: James will there be a 2.6L or 2.8L Kits for the SN95 Cobras anytime in the future? Or will I need to "Retro Fit" Cause I love the SN95's and the sound and power of a 2.6L or a 2.8L Drives me wild
Last edited by 95eclipseRS; 02-01-2007 at 02:48 AM.
You are pretty much correct in your theory....lol.
I'm not sure what we are going to do with the older setups right now. Eventually we will have to do something because we are phasing out of the Autorotor supercharger.
I don’t think that is completely correct. If you know about pump curves or any thing along those lines a pump at a certain rpm will give you a certain GPM (gallons per minute) at a specific Head (resistance in the piping). If you change the Head in the system the GPM will either increase or decrease at that RPM. Same with a supercharger witch is basically an air pump. The more resistance in the system the less CFM you will get at a given RPM so by reducing the resistance you will increase the CFM at that same RPM.
Oh, jesus christ!!!!!! If you want to port it just F'N port it already. Then post up your data revealing your wrong ro right, for the rest of us to see. End of story
Like someone said already... just get a smaller pully or bigger SC.... unless u are trying to make 1000+rwhp just leave it alone and find other ways to get more Power, I really dont think porting a KB is going to make THAT much more power and if u are power hungry crank up the boost or get a 2.8L KB.
just my .02
What does Stiegemeier say about all this? Will they even port a KB?
+1 im pretty much maxed out on my 1.5l non intercooled kb @12 psi im sure porting the inlet would help a lot in my case since i have a single blade tb and pushing the max psi on this little blower
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1997 Cobra, forged motor, mild porting and port matching, 42lb injectors mac lt and o/r h pipe/ magnaflow mufflers, kennebell 1.5l 12 psi w/ snow performance wm injection, tokico illumina drag shocks with kenne brown rear suspension and 4 link, front tubular k member a arms and coil overs. 4.10 gears. black fr500 18x9/18x10dd with 255/35/18 and 295/35/18 bfg drag radials
I was going to port but no need to port anymore. The new Big Bore 2.6L is the solution. I already have all the supporting mods. Hope to get it soon. The 2.6L will change alot of peoples minds from buying the new whipple. It did to me. Good work Kenne bell!
Linear Mode
