I should held out. I had to go with a dirty ol Mopar V10 to get 8 liters.
i don't think your car would be quite as special though. there is just something about having to move the firewall back that much to fit the engine in their
i still think you should go with this for your mid-engine S197 project though!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shangsta
This is am ignorant comment. The reason they didnt move to ohc motor is because the ls gets better gas milage and makes more power than the "competition"
yes, because all ford engines are maxed out from the factory. there is nothing you can do to them to make more power
Quote:
Originally Posted by LS-WHAT?
...damn it...
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The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. - Thomas Jefferson
Last I checked Ford was ahead of the game and still is
The competition does not use OHC enginges like the rest of the modern world
Watch some GT2 ALMS racing.
The Cammer Ford engine gets absolutely waxed by the "old" ohv C6R engine.
Currently in the n/a game, Ford has nothing for GM in professional racing. They can't even run production based engines (Grand Am, ALMS) because they would be so uncompetitive.
whoever it was that i quoted says that the GM pushrod engines have more power from the factory than the ford OHC engines, basically insinuating that the pushrod engines are better because they can make more power. and i cynically, sarcastically said "oh yes, because ford engines are maxed out from the factory", which we all know is utter bullshit. i'll reference the ford GT engine, an engine capable of supporting 1,000RWHP in 100% stock form, 1,400-1,500RWHP with fuel system changes, as proof that ford isn't anywhere close to 'behind' in the engine game. this isn't mentioning the 700RWHP stock block cobras and GT500s.
i mean, no one is surprised that a 5.7l, 6.0l, 7.0l can make more power on pump gas than a 5.4l, are you???
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTSpartan
Watch some GT2 ALMS racing.
The Cammer Ford engine gets absolutely waxed by the "old" ohv C6R engine.
Currently in the n/a game, Ford has nothing for GM in professional racing. They can't even run production based engines (Grand Am, ALMS) because they would be so uncompetitive.
poor reference. are you seriously saying that the factory backed corvette team beating the tiny tiny 'gentleman' team(the robertsons are obviously not the caliber of magnusson and the like) is proof that GM has better engines??? never mind the fact that ALMS has restricted the shit out of the doran GT-R since the very first race, while, oh look, the factory teams come out running in the top 5 with their brand spanking new cars.
as for not being able to run a production based engine and be competitive, the 5.0l cammer is running restrictor plates and the like just like every other engine on the race track. i believe i read that the koni challenge GS class mustangs are capable of ~650HP unrestricted, but are held back to like ~450HP or so. i mean, it's not like ford couldn't build a 3 valve 4.6l running huge compression to make ~450HP or so, but why? i mean, if they are gonna be allowed to run the 5.0l, why not?
besides, are you, again, surprised that a 5.7l, 6.0l, 7.0l is capable of making more power??? has nothing to do with those lil' ol' pushrods stuck in the block.
BTW, you do know that the C5R/C6R 7.0l blocks aren't production castings, right??? europeans have been pissed off about this for years, since the 7.0l wasn't a production based engine(mearly shares production architecture, just like the ford 5.0l cammer). this is the main reason that GM developed the LS7 for the corvette, so that they could be legal(ALMS/LMS rules require a production based engine, though exceptions are always made for factory backed teams), even though the LS7 is a completely different block from the C5R/C6R block.
even the 6.0l(soon to be downsized to 5.5l for whatever reason) in the new GT2 C6R is based on the GT1 LS7, not the production 6.0l like i'm sure you were thinking. the corvette racing engines are designed and built by katech. even the pratt & miller C6RS street car uses an 8.2l V8 based upon the katech designed racing block, not a GM production block. your point is absolutely moot.
whoever it was that i quoted says that the GM pushrod engines have more power from the factory than the ford OHC engines, basically insinuating that the pushrod engines are better because they can make more power. and i cynically, sarcastically said "oh yes, because ford engines are maxed out from the factory", which we all know is utter bullshit. i'll reference the ford GT engine, an engine capable of supporting 1,000RWHP in 100% stock form, 1,400-1,500RWHP with fuel system changes, as proof that ford isn't anywhere close to 'behind' in the engine game. this isn't mentioning the 700RWHP stock block cobras and GT500s.
i mean, no one is surprised that a 5.7l, 6.0l, 7.0l can make more power on pump gas than a 5.4l, are you???
poor reference. are you seriously saying that the factory backed corvette team beating the tiny tiny 'gentleman' team(the robertsons are obviously not the caliber of magnusson and the like) is proof that GM has better engines??? never mind the fact that ALMS has restricted the shit out of the doran GT-R since the very first race, while, oh look, the factory teams come out running in the top 5 with their brand spanking new cars.
as for not being able to run a production based engine and be competitive, the 5.0l cammer is running restrictor plates and the like just like every other engine on the race track. i believe i read that the koni challenge GS class mustangs are capable of ~650HP unrestricted, but are held back to like ~450HP or so. i mean, it's not like ford couldn't build a 3 valve 4.6l running huge compression to make ~450HP or so, but why? i mean, if they are gonna be allowed to run the 5.0l, why not?
besides, are you, again, surprised that a 5.7l, 6.0l, 7.0l is capable of making more power??? has nothing to do with those lil' ol' pushrods stuck in the block.
BTW, you do know that the C5R/C6R 7.0l blocks aren't production castings, right??? europeans have been pissed off about this for years, since the 7.0l wasn't a production based engine(mearly shares production architecture, just like the ford 5.0l cammer). this is the main reason that GM developed the LS7 for the corvette, so that they could be legal(ALMS/LMS rules require a production based engine, though exceptions are always made for factory backed teams), even though the LS7 is a completely different block from the C5R/C6R block.
even the 6.0l(soon to be downsized to 5.5l for whatever reason) in the new GT2 C6R is based on the GT1 LS7, not the production 6.0l like i'm sure you were thinking. the corvette racing engines are designed and built by katech. even the pratt & miller C6RS street car uses an 8.2l V8 based upon the katech designed racing block, not a GM production block. your point is absolutely moot.
Katech does not build the C6R engines anymore. GM does it in house. What about the other privateer teams?
You post has errors on so many levels that I'm not even going to try and rebuke it. Compare the cammer to the production design and there are major differences. How is a 5.0L DOHC in anyway based off a curretn production engine? The 4.6 3v is as close as I can find. That is why they have to run such restrictions. The current 4.6 would be a back of the pack car if it was used.
Last I checked the GM pushrod motors are smaller, lighter, less complicated, less expensive, more powerful, and more efficient than the Ford stuff.
ls based motors cost more i hjave yet to see a complete low millage used ls series motor i could buy for 2500 complete there are 05 up 3 valves for that all over.... are not signbificantly lighter then the aluminum block ford motors.
and more efecient ? um they made far less horsepower per cubic inch then the over head valve ford stuff.
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Making money .. 1 race at a time
ls based motors cost more i hjave yet to see a complete low millage used ls series motor i could buy for 2500 complete there are 05 up 3 valves for that all over.... are not signbificantly lighter then the aluminum block ford motors.
and more efecient ? um they made far less horsepower per cubic inch then the over head valve ford stuff.
To be fair, in the V8 realm, GM has the hp/ci title for both n/a and f/i applications (very close).
This is am ignorant comment. The reason they didnt move to ohc motor is because the ls gets better gas milage and makes more power than the "competition"
Interesting though the since 2003 the OHC modular motors in the Mustangs have proven to be far superior to the competition
And it doesnt matter if the LS motors have made more power and better mileage, they still are less advanced than the modern OHC Ford motors
Now we can have are cake and eat it to
Awsome breathing OHC mod motors with cubes!
Lights out for the competition literally, although I think that occured back in 02-03 when Ford realized boost is where its at
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The Cammer Ford engine gets absolutely waxed by the "old" ohv C6R engine.
Currently in the n/a game, Ford has nothing for GM in professional racing. They can't even run production based engines (Grand Am, ALMS) because they would be so uncompetitive.
I cant say I watch religiously, so I will take your word, but last I checked which was a few years back, they had to limit the power of the Cammer 5.0 in the racing circuits because it was unfair, Ford was domnating.
?
I see your point abot N/A vs boosted and Ford has no answer, but now they do!
My point is that Ford will now dominate in booth N/A form and boosted
whoever it was that i quoted says that the GM pushrod engines have more power from the factory than the ford OHC engines, basically insinuating that the pushrod engines are better because they can make more power. and i cynically, sarcastically said "oh yes, because ford engines are maxed out from the factory", which we all know is utter bullshit. i'll reference the ford GT engine, an engine capable of supporting 1,000RWHP in 100% stock form, 1,400-1,500RWHP with fuel system changes, as proof that ford isn't anywhere close to 'behind' in the engine game. this isn't mentioning the 700RWHP stock block cobras and GT500s.
i mean, no one is surprised that a 5.7l, 6.0l, 7.0l can make more power on pump gas than a 5.4l, are you???
poor reference. are you seriously saying that the factory backed corvette team beating the tiny tiny 'gentleman' team(the robertsons are obviously not the caliber of magnusson and the like) is proof that GM has better engines??? never mind the fact that ALMS has restricted the shit out of the doran GT-R since the very first race, while, oh look, the factory teams come out running in the top 5 with their brand spanking new cars.
as for not being able to run a production based engine and be competitive, the 5.0l cammer is running restrictor plates and the like just like every other engine on the race track. i believe i read that the koni challenge GS class mustangs are capable of ~650HP unrestricted, but are held back to like ~450HP or so. i mean, it's not like ford couldn't build a 3 valve 4.6l running huge compression to make ~450HP or so, but why? i mean, if they are gonna be allowed to run the 5.0l, why not?
besides, are you, again, surprised that a 5.7l, 6.0l, 7.0l is capable of making more power??? has nothing to do with those lil' ol' pushrods stuck in the block.
BTW, you do know that the C5R/C6R 7.0l blocks aren't production castings, right??? europeans have been pissed off about this for years, since the 7.0l wasn't a production based engine(mearly shares production architecture, just like the ford 5.0l cammer). this is the main reason that GM developed the LS7 for the corvette, so that they could be legal(ALMS/LMS rules require a production based engine, though exceptions are always made for factory backed teams), even though the LS7 is a completely different block from the C5R/C6R block.
even the 6.0l(soon to be downsized to 5.5l for whatever reason) in the new GT2 C6R is based on the GT1 LS7, not the production 6.0l like i'm sure you were thinking. the corvette racing engines are designed and built by katech. even the pratt & miller C6RS street car uses an 8.2l V8 based upon the katech designed racing block, not a GM production block. your point is absolutely moot.
Katech does not build the C6R engines anymore. GM does it in house. What about the other privateer teams?
You post has errors on so many levels that I'm not even going to try and rebuke it. Compare the cammer to the production design and there are major differences. How is a 5.0L DOHC in anyway based off a curretn production engine? The 4.6 3v is as close as I can find. That is why they have to run such restrictions. The current 4.6 would be a back of the pack car if it was used.
even if they are no longer building the engines, these engines that GM is putting together are a katech design none the less, which is not a GM production design(though based on, just like the cammer).
which privateers are you referring to? all rolex grand-am pontiacs have at least some factory backing(just like the fords in rolex grand-am and koni challenge). the only LMS team running corvettes is luc alphand adventures, and they are running a GT1 C6.R, with the kartech designed 7.0l.
it would be much appreciated if you would point what i'm wrong about, since i would like to have the correct info.
the 5.0l cammer is a modular engine, just like the katech designed 7.0l is a GM LS series. i mean, if it means anything, even FRPP says it's a 4.6l based design...
Quote:
Big bore 4.6L aluminum block with cast iron liners
Ford Racing Performance Parts []
i honestly don't know what your looking for. i mean, are you seriously telling me that the 4.6l is incapable of being competitive, but 4.6l - plus an 8% displacement increase - is so competitive that it needs to be restricted??? the only major difference between the cammer and the 4.6l is in the block structure(stronger to facilitate the larger bore) and maybe the cooling paths. the rest of the parts are interchangable, with the heads and intake being a 4.6l bolt on without issue. and don't even try to tell me that the katech 7.0l uses a production GM intake.
yea? and i bet that the 5.7l or 6.0l would be at the back of the pack too, hence why GM had katech design them a 7.0l.
see? i can make ignorant, baseless statements too
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckstang
Good reading there
thx for sharing
no prob. i'm a huge touring car fan. the best racing you will ever see will be the koni challenge series, followed by SPEED world challenge, rolex grand-am next, and finally ALMS. if ALMS didn't bend over for every manufacturer backed team on the grid and actually let the privateers run competitively, they would have racing at least on par with grand-am. as it stands now though, you can count on audi or peugeot winning LMP1, acura winning LMP2, corvettes winning GT1 when it was still around, and corvettes winning GT2 now(they finished 5th in points while running only half the races in the season. 1 place back in 6th was the robertson racing doran-ford GT-R, who ran the entire season. ALMS is pathetic). this is why koni challenge and SPEED world challenge have such close racing, the cars are actually balanced because there aren't any teams with full factory backing. unfortunatly, the pontiac GXP-Rs of the GT class in grand-am were fully factory backed(pratt & miller, just like the ALMS corvettes) and consequently won the class, and the camaros for next year will be fully factory backed(again, pratt & miller), but the racing is MUCH closer than ALMS though.
My point is that Ford will now dominate in booth N/A form and boosted
I hope they are very successful with this new engine, but lets not crown them just yet GM has a big lead on this front, just like Ford on the F/I side.
Will the 6.2 be going in anything but the HD F series? I saw in an earlier post that the in it's current form, the 6.2 has cast pistons and crank, but forged rods. I wonder how that will hinder folks that just want to perform an engine swap.
We are not circuit racers here, right? Most of us use daily drivers that use production engines and don't give a crap what those cars are running! It's like saying I'm going to race Mopars because most of the Top Fuels use basically the Hemi design.
Let's be honest to ourselves here...Ford doesn't have the answer to the more powerful GM and Chrysler engines to this date on Naturally Aspirated Production Form.
Ford needs FI to make power, because their small bore design is inefficient combined with the higher flowing heads. Now with the 6.2L maybe it will be more competitive but it's still too early to know that.
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Does anyone know how much heavier the new 6.2L Boss longblock would be over the current 5.4L in the Shelby? How about with a S/C?
that's what i wanna know too. heavy?
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it'll definitely be bit heavier than the 5.4l, though i don't think we have any numbers yet.
and people say this engine should be in the stang'. why, so it can have the weight distribution of a FWD??? the displacement would be nice, though boost has proven to be a perfectly capable replacement(the ONLY replacement for displacement!).
We can ALL take solace in the fact that US and OUR children will and ARE literally OWNING Gm right now, whether they want it or not. All brought to us by the magnificent work that GM has been doing over the years, so magnificent that the dipshits couldnt pay their light bill, SO, our children will be paying it for them. **** GM. GM is an equivalent of that moron neighbor that had a Viper as his toy and had a 1991 Toyota Camry as his every day vehicle.
Point is, you, all of you idiots arguing here dont know shit. Car makers need to make every day cars decent before they can afford to buy/develop/build nice toys. Or this is how its supposed to work, or they will pull another gm fiasco. Just like some of you losers should dedicate some time to having a nice job, having a DD car that is not from Craigslist, BEFORE you buy toys.
/rant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vegaspackerfan
Soccer... Most boring sport in the world. Soccer is for children who don't have the athletic ability to play baseball, football, hockey, or basketball. There is more acting in a soccer game than a Broadway play.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vegaspackerfan
I know very very little about soccer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 01cobravortech
ESL class make you big and strong with words in America.
We can ALL take solace in the fact that US and OUR children will and ARE literally OWNING Gm right now, whether they want it or not. All brought to us by the magnificent work that GM has been doing over the years, so magnificent that the dipshits couldnt pay their light bill, SO, our children will be paying it for them. **** GM. GM is an equivalent of that moron neighbor that had a Viper as his toy and had a 1991 Toyota Camry as his every day vehicle.
Point is, you, all of you idiots arguing here dont know shit. Car makers need to make every day cars decent before they can afford to buy/develop/build nice toys. Or this is how its supposed to work, or they will pull another gm fiasco. Just like some of you losers should dedicate some time to having a nice job, having a DD car that is not from Craigslist, BEFORE you buy toys.
/rant
what an idea, huh? with chryslers press conference a few days ago, it looks like they will pass up GMs mediocre cars here within the next few years. while ford is getting rave reviews, GM is getting reviews that say "hey, they are right behind or on par with the japanese!"
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GM has a big lead on this front, just like Ford on the F/I side.
Im not even a gm ls nut rider i just respect them.
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