Kind of ironic saying that it takes way to much out of the experience when you are running with an auto tranny
i drag race... no corners, or anything else like that... it still takes some skill to launch a car like mine.. it isnt just mash it and go.. so yes, it does take some experience out... i have owned both, and think the stalled auto is leaps and bounds more fun..
Quote:
Originally Posted by KwObAbY
Please don't talk about terminator owners growing some balls when you use an automatic. Sorry, but the Cobra never came in auto.
you think me having an a4 has something to do with balls? you have some learning to do..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jroc
How do you figure this? Do you feel that a Terminator is just incapable of getting a good launch or something? Yes its a big car and harder to launch than most other Muscle cars I've driven, but a GTO is a bigger car that can't support wider rubber than what the Cobra left the factory with. Plenty of Cobra owners have run fast et's and low 60's with stockish suspensions. I think you have a false opinion of what a Terminator can or cannot do. I do agree that its stock setup is more suited for going from a roll than launching hard though, but I bet its the same way with a GTO.
do i feel it is incapable? no... do i think on average that they have a much worse ET/60ft than cars with same hp/less hp... absolutely... yes here is always that one.. but on average, they cant hang on the ET... and there are plenty of guys (if they want to be honest) will fess up to that.. im not dogging them, just showing strengths and weakness... i will say on average a terminator will out trap most fbodys with equal power..
not trying to be biased, trying to be fair..
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeason1010
Yo hate to hurt your GM feelings I know your car market is really reall in the whole buddy but your LS2SLOW GTO is not running in the low 11's sorry and a Pullied cobra with a ported blower will destroy your HEads Cams and Exhuast and whatever else you guys do ya it will beat the dog shit out of it man sorry WE THINK SMARTER NOT HARDER
i have H/C and exhaust.. would you like to run me with your ported blower terminator... ill stay on motor, meaning no nitrous...
i promise you there will be no "beat the dog shit out of it".... well, at least for me...
Quote:
Originally Posted by amxguy1970
GM LS motors can be just as fast if not faster then termi cobra's. So saying you will go out and beat up on some, I am going to LMAO if you catch one that is on the jugs or done right and it makes you look silly.
if he has balls.. he can catch up with this one... he is in GA and im in TN, so im sure it we could find a track half way..
and this one is one of those "done right" ones......... and has the jug for back up..
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeason1010
Um hate to piss you off man but a stock cobra motor will make more power than your stock LS that means you can't change the heads or put your big cams an no NX, stock Cobra heads will see more than LS heads the rods in a Cobra will see more than a LS1 rods or piston they are forged home boy hate to hurt your feelings man but you can build a LS1 completely and all I have to do to my Cobra is either change the pulley for 80 bucks and tune it or spend 3 grand on a KB and destroy you I ahve seen it man
no shit they make more power stock for stock.. we knew this in 02-03... where were you? in highschool?
i dont see a rule book saying i cant change my heads or cam.. we arent talking stock, were talking modded... anything goes.. i cant do whatever the hell i want..
i promise you my heads flow plenty good enough, even more my donkey dick cam..
my rods are doing just fine.. just left the track.. no problems tonight..
you may have seen that before..
but what i hate to tell you is i would embarrass a stock blower terminator... ported blower or not.. a well well well well driven KB terminator, should be a decent run... but most likely, i am going to rip its mouth out too..
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeason1010
The thing that pisses me off still about all this is that these GM guys really think that a SS camaro runs 12's stock this is BS if this were the case then the 03 04 cobra runs 11 stock cause it kills an SS easily 2 or 3 car lengths. What you say about this
they do run 12s stock.. again, this was proven in 01-02.. no the cobras run low 12s stock... on average? no.. but they can, its been proven..
what do i say about this? i suggest you stop flapping them gums of yours... and meet up with me... ill drag your ass down the track with my shitty ass NA 1998 trans am with some little rinky dink cam and shitty flowing heads... what do you say about this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by red97
The only reason and Ls1 or Ls2 would make more power is because of cubes, not because of head flow...and LS Head doesn't hold a candle to a stock 4v head.
again, who gives a shit what stock heads flow? if your into drag racing and own an ls1, you dont have stock heads... 950$ gets you a set of heads flowing 305CFM and higher..
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeason1010
All I gotta say is I will take my little 5.4 motor put a set of forged rods on 4Valve heads with a big blower and force a shit ton of air into it and destroy your ass all day
damn... almost got me... BUT! i could put a 408 stroker built for spray and run a 400 shot with built rear and built tranny.. would be good for an easy 5.5@120mph pass.... if you dont know how to translate that.. thats mid 8s@150+mph....... good luck catching up to that...
truth is, you dont have that... truth is i would drag your ass up and down the track all day and all night... so, when are you going to man up and meet?
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeason1010
Why the **** would anyone put a car in 5th gear and hold it that is the most lamest thing I have ever heard. Another thing redneck I hate to hurt your feelings but your LS1 Chevy motor will never see 650HP on Stock Rods and Pistons I know the Heads won't see it so better go build first man.
i have 650rwhp on stock bottom end.. has not been touched... i have 3 close buddies that has 650rwhp on stock bottom end, nothing being touched.. along with stock transmissions and rear ends... PLENTY of passes..
they have been built... some have moved to bigger and better, some have changed builds...
mine is waiting to embarrass your ass...
Quote:
Originally Posted by S8ER01Z
stock ls1 makes 350hp...
295-320rwhp... depending on year/options.. regardless of make... meaning gto,transam,camaro,vette, etc...
____________________________________ l '00 Trans Am -- Enough to bitch slap Ls1pussout, if he would show up of course.. l '00 Trans Am-- Girlfriends car -- 8.4@85.5mph 2300DA l '02 CBR 954RR -- sprocket / full exhaust / filter sold l '98 Trans Am -- H/C no tune/traction 7.2@95.5 motor 2500DA sold YouTube - I'm the Regulator Bitch
joeason1010.. quit running your mouth and come get drug whenever you feel like it.. im waiting with my POS stock bottom end NA stock rear end stock transmission 1998 ls1...
joeason1010.. quit running your mouth and come get drug whenever you feel like it.. im waiting with my POS stock bottom end NA stock rear end stock transmission 1998 ls1...
thats exactly what he is... his ass wont show, if he even owns a car.. if by chance he shows, and has a mustang... hes gonna get drug down the track..
he gives terminator owners a bad name just like 99 z28 gives ls1 owners a bad name..
You can put a GTO in 5th and top out and hold it for several miles...You can't do that in a Cobra or it'll seize on you.
Stock LS1 and LS2s will hold 650rwhp.
Stock Cobra at 8-9psi equal 370-380rwhp and Stock LS2 GTO at 8-9psi equal 515rwhp, So the LS6 heads will see more power than Cobra heads and they flow better.
3 grand on a KB + supporting mods still can't hold a candle to a C6Z with Longtubes/tune.
I wasn't going to say anything until I read this. One word for you...WRONG!!! I've had my cobra in 6th at 145 mph (4500 rpm sustained)with the A/C going full blast through middle of the Nevada desert for about 55 minutes. Trust me she could've went all day. She never even got hot. Not trying to be snide, but I KNOW I'm not the only one who has top ended a Cobra several times with no "seizing".
About not holding a candle to a modded ZO6...I've had a KB (for 50K+ miles)on my car with supporting mods and smashed many a modded ZO6 in a "normal" race. Now I will give credit to the ZO6, it is an AMAZING car to drive and truly a muscle car. I will also admit, until I went turbo, I couldn't hang with a ZO6 above 160 mph. That's where they really shine.
But, you guys are also talking near stock vehicles (pullied cobra/bolt-on GTO) which IMO the Cobra SHOULD win every time. I stress "should" due to the amount of variables that naturally occur when racing. Bar none, hands down, Dollar for Dollar, you can't beat a Cobra. GTO buys a built motor (5-6K), Cobra buys a blower and Fuel Sys. (5-6K) Cobra wins. GTO adds N20. Cobra adds N20. Cobra wins. GTO goes turbo. Cobra goes turbo. Cobra wins.
These are by no means END ALL statements. There are ALWAYS exceptions. But to think that an over priced Grand Prix can hang (as a street car) with a Cobra, as a Cobra owner, is frankly insulting.
____________________________________
Silver 2004 SVT
Twin 57mm Garrett Turbo's
Complete Maximum Motorports (and QA1) Suspension
Huge Brakes
Loud Audio
Silver and Carbon Fiber with matching Glock
900 HP Daily Driven Boulevard Monster
Anyways, the point being you were comparing an LS2 with high compression and an aftermarket blower to a stock 03-04 Cobra with low compression and the factory blower.
Like I said, the bigger displacement motor will make more power per pound of boost, your example is just a poor representation of it.
____________________________________
Ported blower, BF TB/Plenum, BF 2.76+idlers, Spec Clutch, Full length Headers
NBM 00 WS6 - Cam, Bolt-ons, Gear - Sold
MB 91 VR4 - Built motor, upgraded turbos, standalone, etc - Sold
Black 95 VR4 - bolt-ons - Sold
Blue & White 02 GSX-R 600 - Dumped & Parted.
About not holding a candle to a modded ZO6...I've had a KB (for 50K+ miles)on my car with supporting mods and smashed many a modded ZO6 in a "normal" race. Now I will give credit to the ZO6, it is an AMAZING car to drive and truly a muscle car. I will also admit, until I went turbo, I couldn't hang with a ZO6 above 160 mph. That's where they really shine.
But, you guys are also talking near stock vehicles (pullied cobra/bolt-on GTO) which IMO the Cobra SHOULD win every time. I stress "should" due to the amount of variables that naturally occur when racing. Bar none, hands down, Dollar for Dollar, you can't beat a Cobra. GTO buys a built motor (5-6K), Cobra buys a blower and Fuel Sys. (5-6K) Cobra wins. GTO adds N20. Cobra adds N20. Cobra wins. GTO goes turbo. Cobra goes turbo. Cobra wins.
it takes much much much less mods on a zo6 to hang/beat a cobra... i have seen it many times.. you may beat one with a KB... but im telling you a ported blow pulley exhaust intake tuned cobra will be a hell of a race for a bolt zo6... and thats not something to say "cant hold a candle to"?
no, the GTO should win everytime... it is going to have the faster ET... which is what wins races, not trap... if it were trap, or a roll race.. then yes the cobra should win everytime.. but thats not the case..
dollar for dollar the cobra can beat easily... when you start talking money, you have to factor in the amount you paid for the car.. you cant start talking money and say well besides what i spent for the car..
ls1s lay a smack down on almost anything dollar for dollar... i dont even have 15k in my entire car.. and i promise you i can handle just about any ported/pullied cobra, and same with a KB or something, ill handle just about every one of them.. OF COURSE there is going to be "that one"..
o also... you say GTO buys a built motor... that puts it in the bottom 10s..
then you start factoring in other things...
thing there is... there is more built ls1s/ls2s running MUCH MUCH faster than cobras, with MUCH MUCH less put in them..
your being a little naive... the cobra is a HELL of a car... but your comparing it to cars that SHINE at the drag strip.. and honestly, cobras 90% of the time dont shine at the strip.. there was a pullied/exhaust cobra at the track last night and was running a 1 1/2 seconds slower than me and trapping 12mph slower than me... im just a measly H/C N/A car.. was also spinning/hitting rev limiter and no tune for my heads....... go figure? how could that be?
it takes much much much less mods on a zo6 to hang/beat a cobra... i have seen it many times.. you may beat one with a KB... but im telling you a ported blow pulley exhaust intake tuned cobra will be a hell of a race for a bolt zo6... and thats not something to say "cant hold a candle to"?
no, the GTO should win everytime... it is going to have the faster ET... which is what wins races, not trap... if it were trap, or a roll race.. then yes the cobra should win everytime.. but thats not the case..
dollar for dollar the cobra can beat easily... when you start talking money, you have to factor in the amount you paid for the car.. you cant start talking money and say well besides what i spent for the car..
ls1s lay a smack down on almost anything dollar for dollar... i dont even have 15k in my entire car.. and i promise you i can handle just about any ported/pullied cobra, and same with a KB or something, ill handle just about every one of them.. OF COURSE there is going to be "that one"..
o also... you say GTO buys a built motor... that puts it in the bottom 10s..
then you start factoring in other things...
thing there is... there is more built ls1s/ls2s running MUCH MUCH faster than cobras, with MUCH MUCH less put in them..
your being a little naive... the cobra is a HELL of a car... but your comparing it to cars that SHINE at the drag strip.. and honestly, cobras 90% of the time dont shine at the strip.. there was a pullied/exhaust cobra at the track last night and was running a 1 1/2 seconds slower than me and trapping 12mph slower than me... im just a measly H/C N/A car.. was also spinning/hitting rev limiter and no tune for my heads....... go figure? how could that be?
Since when do GTO's shine at the drag strip? Maybe if it is an auto, but that's only cause the Cobra didn't come with an auto. Put an auto in the Cobra and it's all over for the GTO again.
By the way in performance per dollar (which is a dumbass arguement) the Fox body still woops the F Bod
____________________________________
Save A Horse Ride a Cowboy!
Since when do GTO's shine at the drag strip? Maybe if it is an auto, but that's only cause the Cobra didn't come with an auto. Put an auto in the Cobra and it's all over for the GTO again.
By the way in performance per dollar (which is a dumbass arguement) the Fox body still woops the F Bod
i said ls1s shine at the drag strip.... and yes, gtos shine much more at the strip than a cobra..
here you go again.. i dont give a shit even if it has an auto... cobras are not track cars... i have seen too many run shitty shitty ass times at the track to not believe that..
i also have seen,raced WAY too many fox bodies mustangs with 302/306/347/351s in them and blew their times/doors out of the ****ing water to not believe that... is it easy to make them "fast" or faster than any normal car... yes... is it easy to make them fast? apparently not.. with so many of them running around modded, theres not too many fast ones on the street..
i didnt say it wasnt cheap, i said it wasnt easy.. most people with H/C ls1s have a "fast" street car.... and thats cheap also..
How many GTO's have you ever seen at the track run well? I personally have never seen one faster than mid-11's and that was with a built motor, turbo and a built auto. There was a crew of Goats there, (3 total) representing the range of mods from mild to wild, and none of them were fast.
Please don't think that I am dogging the LS motors. They are great engines capable of wonderful power. But so is the Cobra motor. But let's be fair, the LS has a 61 cubic inch advantage over the Ford. So Ford put a blower on it to make the difference and it worked wonderfully. If you guys wanted a MORE fair comparison, you would need to compare the LS series to the closest NA motor (C.I. wise) that Ford has which would be the 5.4 in the Cobra R. But Ford wins, and you wouldn't admit it. The fact is a Cobra and GTO cost about the same and the Cobra comes with a blower and a very stout engine. Advantage Cobra from the git-go. Obviously whom ever has a bigger wallet will inevitably be the victor. I could buy a GTO and put 100K in it to beat anything, but if I had 100K, why would I buy a GTO?
Most people who are atypical "my car dick is bigger than yours" type of guys can NOT admit defeat. They will always come up with an excuse why they got beat. My car this, the track that...it's all bull sh*t. I'll tell you what though, you find the fastest (street driven) GTO you can find anywhere...find out the total $$$ invested and I will find a Cobra with equal $$$ invested, and see who comes out on top. I'd put money on the Cobra every time. Now of course one race wouldn't settle it because the losing driver of course would make excuses, so I say let them race best of 7...to be fair.
In the long run the GTO was the original muscle car back in the day. I will give it that, but the new GTO is nothing more than LS2 in a grand prix. It's a grocery getter now. That's only my opinion, just like I know there are plenty of Cobra haters out there.
i said ls1s shine at the drag strip.... and yes, gtos shine much more at the strip than a cobra..
here you go again.. i dont give a shit even if it has an auto... cobras are not track cars... i have seen too many run shitty shitty ass times at the track to not believe that..
i also have seen,raced WAY too many fox bodies mustangs with 302/306/347/351s in them and blew their times/doors out of the ****ing water to not believe that... is it easy to make them "fast" or faster than any normal car... yes... is it easy to make them fast? apparently not.. with so many of them running around modded, theres not too many fast ones on the street..
i didnt say it wasnt cheap, i said it wasnt easy.. most people with H/C ls1s have a "fast" street car.... and thats cheap also..
How the heck do you figure a GTO is going to ET better than a Cobra in that scenerio? And I have seen my fair share of cheap fox bodies wooping the piss out of LS1's. Fact is it is much cheaper to build a fast fox
How many GTO's have you ever seen at the track run well? I personally have never seen one faster than mid-11's and that was with a built motor, turbo and a built auto. There was a crew of Goats there, (3 total) representing the range of mods from mild to wild, and none of them were fast.
Please don't think that I am dogging the LS motors. They are great engines capable of wonderful power. But so is the Cobra motor. But let's be fair, the LS has a 61 cubic inch advantage over the Ford. So Ford put a blower on it to make the difference and it worked wonderfully. If you guys wanted a MORE fair comparison, you would need to compare the LS series to the closest NA motor (C.I. wise) that Ford has which would be the 5.4 in the Cobra R. But Ford wins, and you wouldn't admit it. The fact is a Cobra and GTO cost about the same and the Cobra comes with a blower and a very stout engine. Advantage Cobra from the git-go. Obviously whom ever has a bigger wallet will inevitably be the victor. I could buy a GTO and put 100K in it to beat anything, but if I had 100K, why would I buy a GTO?
Most people who are atypical "my car dick is bigger than yours" type of guys can NOT admit defeat. They will always come up with an excuse why they got beat. My car this, the track that...it's all bull sh*t. I'll tell you what though, you find the fastest (street driven) GTO you can find anywhere...find out the total $$$ invested and I will find a Cobra with equal $$$ invested, and see who comes out on top. I'd put money on the Cobra every time. Now of course one race wouldn't settle it because the losing driver of course would make excuses, so I say let them race best of 7...to be fair.
In the long run the GTO was the original muscle car back in the day. I will give it that, but the new GTO is nothing more than LS2 in a grand prix. It's a grocery getter now. That's only my opinion, just like I know there are plenty of Cobra haters out there.
i have seen plenty with H/C bolt ons running high 7s.. that would put them at a high 11.... MUCH farther away than a built turbo motor.. there was also one at the track last night... didnt get to see him run though.. id guess itd be somewhere around mid high 4s... (no im not joking... the parachute etc. kinda gave it away...)
no doubt ford was VERY smart in going FI.. im not one of the ls boys that thinks that was "cheating"... cause honestly to me, it has never been an issue.. i have not been threatened by any cobra, and honestly doubt i will ever be..
isnt the cobra R a gutless drag car basically? excuse my ignorance if not.. not too knowledgeable on them. i think there was a TON of weight taken out of them..
stock for stock, the cobra definitely has an advantage.. but from my experience.... 2k$ later... the advantage goes to the GTO (ls1 etc)..
i can admit defeat.. i just wont settle for it..
that comparison would be endless... reason is what you consider "streetable" or "street driven" me, you, and the owners might totally disagree on... thats an impossible comparison to make..
i DD an ms4 cam with 4k stall 410s exhaust before axle with 1 chambers etc etc etc... most people on this board probably wouldnt stand for that.. i like it, along with PLENTY of people on tech.... but that means nothing..
again, where have i made it look like i hate the cobra... i agree with a lot of things being said.. im just bakcing the ls1 platform, as you guys are the cobra platform.. seems to me though, you guys are being naive about how many cobras out there have horrible times...
do this little test.. go to this sites "drag section" and techs "drag section".... see how many people are saying "why cant i get XXXX times" "should i be going much faster" "450rwhp and 12s" "bolt on ls1 threatening me in my pullied cobra"... there will be MUCH more here... i have been paying attention, and taken part in some of the discussion..
my experience with ls2 gto's...my car bone stock, with 700 miles - we went from a dig and 40. a dig, i stayed ahead till 80 then he started coming slowly around. From a 40, it was about even till 80, then same result. Then after I got my car tuned, still stock otherwise (intake and exhaust stock) raced the same 6spd car and the outcome was way different. Dig race i stayed about 1 1/2 car ahead, and the 40 race i stayed 1 1/2 to 2 cars. He ran a 13.40@104 to my 13.05@106.50 after my car was tuned, and i have a 07 gt a5....
How the heck do you figure a GTO is going to ET better than a Cobra in that scenerio? And I have seen my fair share of cheap fox bodies wooping the piss out of LS1's. Fact is it is much cheaper to build a fast fox
i would gifure an ls1 will ET better than a cobra in almost any FAIR comparison... why, because i see too many cobras running shameful times (like last night).. and seen too many people posting on here about it..
yes i have seen plenty of fast foxs too.. and beating ls1s... but MAJORITY of the time.. a H/C ls1 and a H/C fox.. the ls1 wins.. why? not because either one is more cheap.. but it is easier to "slap on" a given setup on an ls1 and be fast... than to "slap on" a given setup on a fox and be fast..
if you dont know/understand this.. you need to get into the drag/street racing world a little more often and get some experience under your belt..
my experience with ls2 gto's...my car bone stock, with 700 miles - we went from a dig and 40. a dig, i stayed ahead till 80 then he started coming slowly around. From a 40, it was about even till 80, then same result. Then after I got my car tuned, still stock otherwise (intake and exhaust stock) raced the same 6spd car and the outcome was way different. Dig race i stayed about 1 1/2 car ahead, and the 40 race i stayed 1 1/2 to 2 cars. He ran a 13.40@104 to my 13.05@106.50 after my car was tuned, and i have a 07 gt a5....
i would gifure an ls1 will ET better than a cobra in almost any FAIR comparison... why, because i see too many cobras running shameful times (like last night).. and seen too many people posting on here about it..
yes i have seen plenty of fast foxs too.. and beating ls1s... but MAJORITY of the time.. a H/C ls1 and a H/C fox.. the ls1 wins.. why? not because either one is more cheap.. but it is easier to "slap on" a given setup on an ls1 and be fast... than to "slap on" a given setup on a fox and be fast..
if you dont know/understand this.. you need to get into the drag/street racing world a little more often and get some experience under your belt..
Again, this thread is about a GTO and the Cobra. Not the lighter Fbod and Corvette. Please stay on topic.
When did I ever say that you keep the small block in the fox body?
I have had encounters with ls2 gtos and all I can say is I am not impressed. From a 35mph roll I had 2 cars on him until we let off. From a dig you can ell that it is heavy because I left him by 4 and he pulled me back in to 1 car when we let off. Both times we went till 100mph. Oh and by the way this was with a mach1 with a n/a 5.0 stroker(stock cams and heads),full exhaust, and intake. The Gto had catback and intake.
EDIT* this was about 2.5 years ago and actually before my built motor. And to lemons12 I started relaxing and granny-shifted 3rd(shifted at 5000) when my passenger started yelling "your gone you got him bad". If I would have lost I would have felt stupid. Now I just expected to get walked by a car that the owner going around saying "yeah man 400hp stock with my mods I wont even have to go full throttle on you." Don't get me wrong I have an 03 ss silverado with the 6.0ls2 and I love that truck. I am saying that it doesn't make sense to have that much a motor in pontiac boat and call it a day when they killed the only thing I liked about GM cars(camaro, transam).
I have had encounters with ls2 gtos and all I can say is I am not impressed. From a 35mph roll I had 2 cars on him until we let off. From a dig you can ell that it is heavy because I left him by 4 and he pulled me back in to 1 car when we let off. Both times we went till 100mph. Oh and by the way this was with a mach1 with a n/a 5.0 stroker(stock cams and heads),full exhaust, and intake. The Gto had catback and intake.
I would hope you pulled more then that with a stroked 5.0 unless your low comp for F/I and just breaking the motor in. I just read this entire thread and both sides have valid points, ill give it to Lemon that he is being quite fair indeed, atleast he is attempting to way more then the other guys that start the shitting contests
Linear Mode
