I would hope you pulled more then that with a stroked 5.0 unless your low comp for F/I and just breaking the motor in. I just read this entire thread and both sides have valid points, ill give it to Lemon that he is being quite fair indeed, atleast he is attempting to way more then the other guys that start the shitting contests
Quote:
Originally Posted by ULTIMATEORANGES
lemon does know his stuff.
Thanks for the comments guys!
Also thanks to all the guys in here that are being partially open minded....
it takes much much much less mods on a zo6 to hang/beat a cobra..
Agreed, it also takes much less in a Z06 to beat A LOT of cars out there, (GTOs, fbodies, etc).
Quote:
no, the GTO should win everytime... it is going to have the faster ET... which is what wins races, not trap... if it were trap, or a roll race.. then yes the cobra should win everytime.. but thats not the case..
dollar for dollar the cobra can beat easily..
.
What? Neither car is a drag strip warrior, both cars have cases where they've done very well and also very poorly. There are plenty of ported & pullied Cobras that are running in the low 11s and 10s, if you look at the bare mods needed to port & pulley a Cobra; a GTO won't touch that performance for the money, at the drag strip, or anywhere else. You have to remember, a Cobra doesn't need headers, expensive ported heads, cam swaps, etc.
Here is a proven 500rwhp package from Stiegemeier.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stiegemeier
03 04 Cobra-500 Rwhp-the Easy Way
Stiegemeier Ported Blower, Throttle Body and Plenum 57 RWHP-$695.00
2.76 BilletFlow Upper Pulley - $150
100 mm Idler
Belt
CAI - $150
NGK TR6 spark plugs
Diablo Predator Tuner
That will get you to 500 RWHP
If you look at the eaton fast list there are a lot of Cobras running low 11s and 10s with that kinda power. Not saying it's the norm, but the capability is there and has been proven many times.
Here is a ported / pullied Cobra with a small 60shot.
Dollar for dollar the cobra can beat easily... when you start talking money, you have to factor in the amount you paid for the car.. you cant start talking money and say well besides what i spent for the car..
ls1s lay a smack down on almost anything dollar for dollar... i dont even have 15k in my entire car.. and i promise you i can handle just about any ported/pullied cobra,
FYI, GTOs had the same MSRP as 03-04 Cobras. The resale on GTOs is just a lot worse because they aren't as desirable. As for fbodies, a lot of us Cobra owners used to own fbodies. I could have made my fbody faster than my Cobra for a lot less money, but performance isn't the only thing you're paying for. My fbody was loud, had a big cam, gear, SRA, it burned oil, the t-tops leaked, etc. My Cobra has cats, is docile as **** with 500rwhp+, (rides like a bone stock car) has an IRS which makes daily driving a lot more pleasurable and yes it was very cheap to mod.
This goes for any car, I think the LS3 Corvette is the best bang for your buck car, not because I can build a 98 fbody for 1/3 as much or a Cobra for 1/2 as much but because it is a superior car that also performs awesome with little invested into it. It's the overall car, because in the end anything can be made fast. You can build an old 5.0 notchback for way under $15,000 and drag an LS1 up and down the dragstrip, does that make it a superior car?
Quote:
you say GTO buys a built motor... that puts it in the bottom 10s..
then you start factoring in other things...
thing there is... there is more built ls1s/ls2s running MUCH MUCH faster than cobras, with MUCH MUCH less put in them..
I don't think you're factoring what a good suspension, SRA can do. Unlike in a GTO, a Mustang is a lot easier to modify for the dragstrip. You can do an aluminum block, front tubular suspension, auto transmission, solid rear-axle and a little weight reduction and have a sub 3300lb car without it even being gutted. (look up Almo's car, it weighed under 3200lbs and ran mid 10s with just a 6spd, pulley & bolt-ons). While you can make BIG power in a GTO, the capability to turn it into a lightweight drag car will cost you a lot of $$$ or require you to gut it down to nothing. There isn't nearly as much R&D in the GTO platform as there is in the Mustangs.
Quote:
but your comparing it to cars that SHINE at the drag strip.. and honestly, cobras 90% of the time dont shine at the strip.. there was a pullied/exhaust cobra at the track last night and was running a 1 1/2 seconds slower than me and trapping 12mph slower than me...
I've seen it both ways, the GTO is heavier, can't fit as much tire, has an IRS and a very soft suspension. I've seen h/c/i GTOs run 12.5s@113mph. It's not the powerplant that allows a car to "shine" at a dragstrip, it's the driver and/or how well the car is setup for drag. If you look at hp & torque curves there is not a single factor that a roots / twin screw Cobra lacks to shine at a drag strip.
____________________________________
Ported blower, BF TB/Plenum, BF 2.76+idlers, Spec Clutch, Full length Headers
NBM 00 WS6 - Cam, Bolt-ons, Gear - Sold
MB 91 VR4 - Built motor, upgraded turbos, standalone, etc - Sold
Black 95 VR4 - bolt-ons - Sold
Blue & White 02 GSX-R 600 - Dumped & Parted.
I would hope you pulled more then that with a stroked 5.0 unless your low comp for F/I and just breaking the motor in. I just read this entire thread and both sides have valid points, ill give it to Lemon that he is being quite fair indeed, atleast he is attempting to way more then the other guys that start the shitting contests
Quote:
Originally Posted by ULTIMATEORANGES
lemon does know his stuff.
lol. I think y'all are riding those nuts a little hard. Lemon thinks he knows what he's talking about, but I don't think the he's ever even been in a 03/04 Cobra the way he talks about them. He basically calls them slow for their HP, and then when you call him out on it he counters with "well they can be fast, but from my experiance da, da, da." Its pretty funny really. Sure their not the end all to fast cars, or the greatest performance cars ever made, but there's a reason that they've built the rep that they have, and its because their pretty damn good at what they do.
Lets just be honest with ourselves here a Terminator is a better performance car than a GTO. Period, it is, and if you say otherwise your in denial or your ignorant. I've been in both stock, I've been in both mod, I've drive both and honestly Terminator > GTO for performance. So no he's not being fair minded here because if he was he would just man up and admit to that fact. Sure you could do this to the GTO and go beat a Cobra, but stock for stock, mod for mod, dollar for dollar the Cobra is a faster car. You can do this or that to a Cobra and go beat a ZO6, but that doesn't make Cobra's better performance cars than ZO6's. Seriously admit it. I have no problem admitting to certain cars being better than Mustang Cobra's. A base model Vette is no dout a better Performance car than a Terminator, and even though I wouldn't trade my car for one I don't have a problem admitting to that.
Don't get me wrong I like GTO's. They are very nice cars and have plenty of potential. I love the seats, I love the steeringwheel, the shifter location, just the interior in general, and the cars modern refinement compared to Fbodies and pre-05 Mustangs. I was impressed with the stock LS2 compared to a stock LS1, but still a Terminator is a better performance car, particularly when you start with the modding.
On another note this thread reminded me of a video I saw posted a coupe years ago. This is Country's car. Its a pulley, CB, CAI Cobra, and I think the GTO is stock so of course it should of lost, but the way it did, and the reaction from the people in the GTO tripped me out particularly since they themselves weren't racing.
i have seen plenty with H/C bolt ons running high 7s.. that would put them at a high 11.... MUCH farther away than a built turbo motor.. there was also one at the track last night... didnt get to see him run though.. id guess itd be somewhere around mid high 4s... (no im not joking... the parachute etc. kinda gave it away...)
Parachutes do NOT = street car, plus you didn't see him run. He could've ran a 13 for all you know,
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemons12
no doubt ford was VERY smart in going FI.. im not one of the ls boys that thinks that was "cheating"... cause honestly to me, it has never been an issue.. i have not been threatened by any cobra, and honestly doubt i will ever be..
isnt the cobra R a gutless drag car basically? excuse my ignorance if not.. not too knowledgeable on them. i think there was a TON of weight taken out of them..
They are actually built more for road racing. Not much weight removed, but no AC or radio. 385 HP all natural. And still 20 cubes smaller than an LS.
As far as a Cobra challenging you, you must be in a bad area for them. I personally don't even look twice at or waste my fuel on a GTO. They're just not fast to enough for me to risk jail time embarrasing. In my area and in Fla, I can't think of a single Cobra that wouldn't destroy a GTO, no matter how modified. The slowest Cobra I can think of around here runs low 11's spinning through the 330'. I would be happy to run a your GTO anytime. I need to get back from Iraq first though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemons12
stock for stock, the cobra definitely has an advantage.. but from my experience.... 2k$ later... the advantage goes to the GTO (ls1 etc)..
i can admit defeat.. i just wont settle for it..
What would 2K buy you for a GTO?
What do you think 2K would buy a Cobra?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemons12
that comparison would be endless... reason is what you consider "streetable" or "street driven" me, you, and the owners might totally disagree on... thats an impossible comparison to make..
i DD an ms4 cam with 4k stall 410s exhaust before axle with 1 chambers etc etc etc... most people on this board probably wouldnt stand for that.. i like it, along with PLENTY of people on tech.... but that means nothing..
Agreed on what is a street car and what isn't (IE parachutes).
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemons12
again, where have i made it look like i hate the cobra... i agree with a lot of things being said.. im just bakcing the ls1 platform, as you guys are the cobra platform.. seems to me though, you guys are being naive about how many cobras out there have horrible times...
Not being naive at all. I agree there are plenty of shitty times on both sides of the conversation. You haven't often seen good times from a Cobra, I have never seen anything impressive from a GTO (aside from the 6.7ish Pro-Stock car that obviously is just a GTO sticker on a fiberglass shell). Cobra's do take a little time to learn how to launch optimally. A good buddy of mine has cut a 1.41 60' on a stock IRS with just upgraded axles. I saw him do that with my own eyes. So the skill of the driver is the uncontestable trump card. (That and traction) I will agree to that absolutely. So a good driver in a GTO > crappy driver in a Cobra (and vice versa) no matter how either car is modded.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemons12
do this little test.. go to this sites "drag section" and techs "drag section".... see how many people are saying "why cant i get XXXX times" "should i be going much faster" "450rwhp and 12s" "bolt on ls1 threatening me in my pullied cobra"... there will be MUCH more here... i have been paying attention, and taken part in some of the discussion..
See above comments. You can beat yourself in a drag race if you don't know what your doing. There are also plenty of Eaton cars with a shot of gas running Mid- 10's. It all depends on geography. I hope you don't think I'm trying to be a dick, as that is NOT the case. You, as you stated, are just defending the LS camp, where as I am defending the Ford side. I have driven fine specimens from both camps, and the LS is a great engine series. But Ford regained the streets when they started putting blowers on their cars. Unfortunately for GM, cubes have always been their forte. Boost beats cubes in the aftermarket because it's cheaper to make more. A pulley is cheaper than a stroker and heads. When the Cobra got blown, the LS just wasn't on the same level anymore. The GTO/LS's competition now rests with the 3 valve GT's that are similar in power (with minor bolt-ons), which again, is why I won't even bother with them. That might be the reason you have not been threatened/contested by a Cobra in your area. However, once the modding begins, the guy with the bigger wallet wins everytime.
A short rant:
Also, since it's a big subject of the conversation here...I have driven a STOCK 06 ZO6 and beaten a Viper in a "duel". I feel that the LS7 in the ZO6 is leaps and bounds better than ANY other LS based motor LS9 included. But again for GM, cubes rule. To compare a Cobra to a ZO6 is apples and oranges. A ZO6 is a much better sports car than a Cobra, but for the average Joe, it's unaffordable at almost 100 grand (AFTER MARK-UP). You can make a Cobra beat ZO6's and exotics fairly easily on the street, BUT when you get into serious mods (suspension, engine, power adders) HP per pound and traction will win in every situation.
____________________________________
Silver 2004 SVT
Twin 57mm Garrett Turbo's
Complete Maximum Motorports (and QA1) Suspension
Huge Brakes
Loud Audio
Silver and Carbon Fiber with matching Glock
900 HP Daily Driven Boulevard Monster
i wasnt riding shit. as a matter of fact theres very few people online i give credit to.
simple question. which car makes more power running similar FI setups?
5.7 GTO or cobra?
6.0 gto or cobra?
Don't give him all this BS praise because you like how he's defending a car that you own, because you are doing that. The guy is as byiast towards his brand as anyone else on here even if he says otherwise.
The Cobra will probably make more power as its designed to handle more boost pressures. If you say with both running equal psi I would say that thats retarded to even think of running low boost in a Terminator, and is just as stupid as building a low compression motor to be efficent N/A.
Heres are even simpler questions. Which is the better performance car?
03/04 Cobra or 05/06 GTO?
Which gives you better performance per dollar spent?
Don't give him all this BS praise because you like how he's defending a car that you own, because you are doing that. The guy is as byiast towards his brand as anyone else on here even if he says otherwise.
The Cobra will probably make more power as its designed to handle more boost pressures. If you say with both running equal psi I would say that thats retarded to even think of running low boost in a Terminator, and is just as stupid as building a low compression motor to be efficent N/A.
Heres are even simpler questions. Which is the better performance car?
03/04 Cobra or 05/06 GTO?
Which gives you better performance per dollar spent?
03/04 Cobra or 05/06 GTO?
LOL im not giving him praise because i own a GTO. what a bunch of BS.
if you could answer my question i could probably answer yours. all i wanted to know is with both motors running the same boost on identical setups would make more power?
last i knew LS motors run pretty strong with FI setups. so the answer would be whichever motor that makes more power is the better one. weight and susp. come into play also but both cars can hook pretty well when properly setup.
I had an 06 GTO and now own an 03 Cobra, performance wise cobra is hands down superior. It handles better, brakes better, and in a drag race stock for stock not even close. Dollar for dollar the cobra is still gonna kill it. The only things the gto does better is ride smoother and is quieter and the interior was nicer imo.
if you could answer my question i could probably answer yours. all i wanted to know is with both motors running the same boost on identical setups would make more power?
They can't have identical setups. The Ford is 61 cubes smaller and has 4 cams and 4 valves per cylinder. If you want to compare similar engine it would be the 351W vs the LS. Only 1 cube difference, both 2V pushrods, blah blah. There are so many combinations that either engine could wear; it's almost impossible to quote who is better. Could go either way.
I look at it this way, take the blower off the Terminator, it still makes approx.320 hp from 281 cubes (1.139 hp per C.I.). And the LS1 makes about the same approx. 320 hp from 350 cubes (.914 HP per C.I.). The efficiency of the Ford 4V wins easily. Stretch the math to equalize C.I. and the Ford makes 395.5 hp at 350 C.I.
Ford 4V > LS1
EDIT: the 5.4 4V on the Cobra R made 385 at 330 C.I. which would equal 408.3 hp at 350 cubes. More than enough to slap an LS1 in the face.
What? Neither car is a drag strip warrior, both cars have cases where they've done very well and also very poorly. There are plenty of ported & pullied Cobras that are running in the low 11s and 10s, if you look at the bare mods needed to port & pulley a Cobra; a GTO won't touch that performance for the money, at the drag strip, or anywhere else. You have to remember, a Cobra doesn't need headers, expensive ported heads, cam swaps, etc.
If you look at the eaton fast list there are a lot of Cobras running low 11s and 10s with that kinda power. Not saying it's the norm, but the capability is there and has been proven many times.
Here is a ported / pullied Cobra with a small 60shot.
FYI, GTOs had the same MSRP as 03-04 Cobras. The resale on GTOs is just a lot worse because they aren't as desirable. As for fbodies, a lot of us Cobra owners used to own fbodies. I could have made my fbody faster than my Cobra for a lot less money, but performance isn't the only thing you're paying for. My fbody was loud, had a big cam, gear, SRA, it burned oil, the t-tops leaked, etc. My Cobra has cats, is docile as **** with 500rwhp+, (rides like a bone stock car) has an IRS which makes daily driving a lot more pleasurable and yes it was very cheap to mod.
This goes for any car, I think the LS3 Corvette is the best bang for your buck car, not because I can build a 98 fbody for 1/3 as much or a Cobra for 1/2 as much but because it is a superior car that also performs awesome with little invested into it. It's the overall car, because in the end anything can be made fast. You can build an old 5.0 notchback for way under $15,000 and drag an LS1 up and down the dragstrip, does that make it a superior car?
I've seen it both ways, the GTO is heavier, can't fit as much tire, has an IRS and a very soft suspension. I've seen h/c/i GTOs run 12.5s@113mph. It's not the powerplant that allows a car to "shine" at a dragstrip, it's the driver and/or how well the car is setup for drag. If you look at hp & torque curves there is not a single factor that a roots / twin screw Cobra lacks to shine at a drag strip.
the sad part is... you just proved my point.. your say ported pullied cobras are running what i run.... guess what im a NA H/C ls1... how impressive is that? not very..
not only did you say that there are some, you say that isnt the norm.. i will run what i ran last night all day long, and faster next trip to the track... and i promise i dont have as much money in my car as you think i do..
it is totally true... if i wanted a quit nice smooth good handling drive sound like a stock0-stockish car, i would have bought a cobra HANDS down.. they really are amazing all around cars, and ALL AROUND they do beat ls1s... but when talking ET (drag racing)... they are at a disadvantage most of the time.. i love my loud obnoxious (still very street friendly) huge stall low geared donkey dick cam'd exhaust before the axle car..
i have raced many fox's at the strip... ranging from "mild to wild"... VERY few beat me.. most are tubbed and gutted full out race cars that were tailored to the track with no license plate... i drive to the track and change tires.. race.. change tires, and drive back home and to work the next day..
and ive seen H/C goats run low 11s.. dont see a point there?
ive seen pullied cobras run low 11s-high 12s... doesnt mean much..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jroc
lol. I think y'all are riding those nuts a little hard. Lemon thinks he knows what he's talking about, but I don't think the he's ever even been in a 03/04 Cobra the way he talks about them. He basically calls them slow for their HP, and then when you call him out on it he counters with "well they can be fast, but from my experiance da, da, da." Its pretty funny really. Sure their not the end all to fast cars, or the greatest performance cars ever made, but there's a reason that they've built the rep that they have, and its because their pretty damn good at what they do.
Lets just be honest with ourselves here a Terminator is a better performance car than a GTO. Period, it is, and if you say otherwise your in denial or your ignorant. I've been in both stock, I've been in both mod, I've drive both and honestly Terminator > GTO for performance. So no he's not being fair minded here because if he was he would just man up and admit to that fact. Sure you could do this to the GTO and go beat a Cobra, but stock for stock, mod for mod, dollar for dollar the Cobra is a faster car. You can do this or that to a Cobra and go beat a ZO6, but that doesn't make Cobra's better performance cars than ZO6's. Seriously admit it. I have no problem admitting to certain cars being better than Mustang Cobra's. A base model Vette is no dout a better Performance car than a Terminator, and even though I wouldn't trade my car for one I don't have a problem admitting to that.
so your telling me a member of your own forum is riding my nuts... maybe he is just being a little more open minded and looking at BOTH sides... and actually TRYING to understand and comprehend what im saying, instead of just reading and retaliating ASAP..
never been in a cobra... http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/member.php?u=76285
ask him if i have been in a cobra.. he is a good buddy... also have been in a full exhaust intake tune ported pullied cobra.. i know what they feel like, and how well they run from a roll.........
i dont basically call the majority of them slow for there hp... i outright said it... and ill say it again... the MAJORITY of the time... they have 450rwhp cobras that are running mid 8s in the 1/8... that my friend, is a huge joke..
they built a HUGE rep for themselves.. ROLL RACING! not dig... how often do you hear someone go "dont race that cobra from a dig, its sick".. you usually dont.. you hear "dont **** with it from a roll"... and they are SICK cars from a roll.. with a FEW far and few in between sick from a dig.
like i have said.. a cobra is LEAPS AND BOUNDS a overall better car than a gto... but at the drag strip, i TOTALLY disagree... and to me, thats all that matters... especially since thats the topic on hand.. is the gto hands down better at the strip... no... but on average... yes..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokin04
Parachutes do NOT = street car, plus you didn't see him run. He could've ran a 13 for all you know,
They are actually built more for road racing. Not much weight removed, but no AC or radio. 385 HP all natural. And still 20 cubes smaller than an LS.
As far as a Cobra challenging you, you must be in a bad area for them. I personally don't even look twice at or waste my fuel on a GTO. They're just not fast to enough for me to risk jail time embarrasing. In my area and in Fla, I can't think of a single Cobra that wouldn't destroy a GTO, no matter how modified. The slowest Cobra I can think of around here runs low 11's spinning through the 330'. I would be happy to run a your GTO anytime. I need to get back from Iraq first though.
What would 2K buy you for a GTO?
What do you think 2K would buy a Cobra?
Not being naive at all. I agree there are plenty of shitty times on both sides of the conversation. You haven't often seen good times from a Cobra, I have never seen anything impressive from a GTO (aside from the 6.7ish Pro-Stock car that obviously is just a GTO sticker on a fiberglass shell). Cobra's do take a little time to learn how to launch optimally. A good buddy of mine has cut a 1.41 60' on a stock IRS with just upgraded axles. I saw him do that with my own eyes. So the skill of the driver is the uncontestable trump card. (That and traction) I will agree to that absolutely. So a good driver in a GTO > crappy driver in a Cobra (and vice versa) no matter how either car is modded.
See above comments. You can beat yourself in a drag race if you don't know what your doing. There are also plenty of Eaton cars with a shot of gas running Mid- 10's. It all depends on geography. I hope you don't think I'm trying to be a dick, as that is NOT the case. You, as you stated, are just defending the LS camp, where as I am defending the Ford side. I have driven fine specimens from both camps, and the LS is a great engine series. But Ford regained the streets when they started putting blowers on their cars. Unfortunately for GM, cubes have always been their forte. Boost beats cubes in the aftermarket because it's cheaper to make more. A pulley is cheaper than a stroker and heads. When the Cobra got blown, the LS just wasn't on the same level anymore. The GTO/LS's competition now rests with the 3 valve GT's that are similar in power (with minor bolt-ons), which again, is why I won't even bother with them. That might be the reason you have not been threatened/contested by a Cobra in your area. However, once the modding begins, the guy with the bigger wallet wins everytime.
A short rant:
Also, since it's a big subject of the conversation here...I have driven a STOCK 06 ZO6 and beaten a Viper in a "duel". I feel that the LS7 in the ZO6 is leaps and bounds better than ANY other LS based motor LS9 included. But again for GM, cubes rule. To compare a Cobra to a ZO6 is apples and oranges. A ZO6 is a much better sports car than a Cobra, but for the average Joe, it's unaffordable at almost 100 grand (AFTER MARK-UP). You can make a Cobra beat ZO6's and exotics fairly easily on the street, BUT when you get into serious mods (suspension, engine, power adders) HP per pound and traction will win in every situation.
you sound so ignorant i dont even know if i should respond.. but for all inquiring minds, i will....
when i talked about the GTO with a parachute, i was making a joke saying all gtos werent slow.. OF COURSE i dont think thats near a street car... omg...
did i personally see it run? no.. but my buddy said it let out at half track cause they couldnt keep it in between the lines and the nose down.. ran like a mid 5@ like 90 or something like that... im going to guess its a LITTLE faster than a 13... wouldnt you.. it was a ****ing pro-mod dude... again i say, some of you in this thread need some experience in drag racing... like ACTUALLY going to the strip and participating..
well, i could honestly care less if cobra owners dont pay attention to GTOs... beings i drive a trans am...
your probably right, it would be a waste for you to run me.. im sure id slaughter you..
when you get back.. but im sure ill never hear of you.. let me know.. we can meet up at the track.. put a few hundred on it... and you will be going back home X amount of money poorer..
2k in a gto...... full bolt ons and a NICE cam only setup... on the juice... *PLENTY* fast enough more mid 10s....
what could 2k get you in a cobra? high 10s... but not on the norm as stated in this thread..
so how much "better" are they at drag racing again?
your proving my whole arguement in this thread in this one single post.......... ON AVERAGE a H/C ls1/gto whatever is going to beat a modified cobra at the track... ON AVERAGE.... thank you for agreeing with EVERYTHING i have been trying to get across to you guys..
again with the attitude of you thinking my car would be a waste of gas money for your car... you would be VERY sour with the outcome.. just because you have seen a few H/C ls1s that dont run as fast as your car, doesnt mean mine wont.. say GTOs are slow all you want.. but be careful bashing someones car that you dont even know.... and yes, i will say 100 X's, that i have FULL confidence that my car will drag yours and probably most peoples in this thread up and down the track..
i have time slips... do you guys?
if so, why dont we stop this bickering REAL fast and post some times up.. that could show a LOT...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jroc
Don't give him all this BS praise because you like how he's defending a car that you own, because you are doing that. The guy is as byiast towards his brand as anyone else on here even if he says otherwise.
The Cobra will probably make more power as its designed to handle more boost pressures. If you say with both running equal psi I would say that thats retarded to even think of running low boost in a Terminator, and is just as stupid as building a low compression motor to be efficent N/A.
Heres are even simpler questions. Which is the better performance car?
03/04 Cobra or 05/06 GTO?
Which gives you better performance per dollar spent?
03/04 Cobra or 05/06 GTO?
did you miss how many times i have gave the cobra credit in this thread.. it is BY FAR a more OVER ALL and WELL ROUNDED car than the LS platform....
but when you start breaking it down... it just cant compete in the drag racing department ON AVERAGE!
8psi on a cobra and 8psi on an ls2 gto... the ls2gto will make more power.. and be VERY streetable, and VERY reliable.. its been done OVER AND OVER..
better ALL AROUND?
cobra...
better per dollar ALL AROUND?
cora...
is that what you want to hear, will it make you sleep better? cause its the honest truth...
now going back to the conversation on hand, INSTEAD of you changing it to make the cobra look more superior...
IN DRAG RACING is the cobra better than in 05-06 GTO considering mod for mod and dollar for dollar?
So much ignoracity in this thread. I get the feeling most people arguing have only had one fast car in their life and dont race much.
ignoracity isnt a word....
other than that.. who was this directed towards?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokin04
They can't have identical setups. The Ford is 61 cubes smaller and has 4 cams and 4 valves per cylinder. If you want to compare similar engine it would be the 351W vs the LS. Only 1 cube difference, both 2V pushrods, blah blah. There are so many combinations that either engine could wear; it's almost impossible to quote who is better. Could go either way.
I look at it this way, take the blower off the Terminator, it still makes approx.320 hp from 281 cubes (1.139 hp per C.I.). And the LS1 makes about the same approx. 320 hp from 350 cubes (.914 HP per C.I.). The efficiency of the Ford 4V wins easily. Stretch the math to equalize C.I. and the Ford makes 395.5 hp at 350 C.I.
Ford 4V > LS1
EDIT: the 5.4 4V on the Cobra R made 385 at 330 C.I. which would equal 408.3 hp at 350 cubes. More than enough to slap an LS1 in the face.
that argument can never be settled... they came with what they came.. no reason to take a blower off... thats what they came with.. it would be better to say it would be unfair to take the blower off..
stock, the ls1 isnt that impressive honestly.. its the mod potential of what just a bolt on ls1 can run especially for the power output.. or a cam only ls1, for the power output... there are 350rwhp ls1s running mid 11s NA... i was one of them.. and that was on a 90 degree night with no tune for the intake or gears..
thing is, none of that matters... thats an ENTIRE other debate... which is endless, and stupid.. but hell, so is this one..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokin04
What defines fast? But other than that...+1, I agree.
i promise you guys what i consider "fast" and what most people in this thread would consider "fast" is MUCH MUCH different..
that argument can never be settled... they came with what they came.. no reason to take a blower off... thats what they came with.. it would be better to say it would be unfair to take the blower off..
stock, the ls1 isnt that impressive honestly.. its the mod potential of what just a bolt on ls1 can run especially for the power output.. or a cam only ls1, for the power output... there are 350rwhp ls1s running mid 11s NA... i was one of them.. and that was on a 90 degree night with no tune for the intake or gears..
thing is, none of that matters... thats an ENTIRE other debate... which is endless, and stupid.. but hell, so is this one..
i promise you guys what i consider "fast" and what most people in this thread would consider "fast" is MUCH MUCH different..
Yeah but its gto a nice ring to it. I mean "got". LOL
And im refering to "most" people. If you arent "most" people(atleast in this thread) then not you.
so your telling me a member of your own forum is riding my nuts... maybe he is just being a little more open minded and looking at BOTH sides... and actually TRYING to understand and comprehend what im saying, instead of just reading and retaliating ASAP..
never been in a cobra... http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/member.php?u=76285
ask him if i have been in a cobra.. he is a good buddy... also have been in a full exhaust intake tune ported pullied cobra.. i know what they feel like, and how well they run from a roll.........
i dont basically call the majority of them slow for there hp... i outright said it... and ill say it again... the MAJORITY of the time... they have 450rwhp cobras that are running mid 8s in the 1/8... that my friend, is a huge joke..
they built a HUGE rep for themselves.. ROLL RACING! not dig... how often do you hear someone go "dont race that cobra from a dig, its sick".. you usually dont.. you hear "dont **** with it from a roll"... and they are SICK cars from a roll.. with a FEW far and few in between sick from a dig.
like i have said.. a cobra is LEAPS AND BOUNDS a overall better car than a gto... but at the drag strip, i TOTALLY disagree... and to me, thats all that matters... especially since thats the topic on hand.. is the gto hands down better at the strip... no... but on average... yes..
did you miss how many times i have gave the cobra credit in this thread.. it is BY FAR a more OVER ALL and WELL ROUNDED car than the LS platform....
but when you start breaking it down... it just cant compete in the drag racing department ON AVERAGE!
8psi on a cobra and 8psi on an ls2 gto... the ls2gto will make more power.. and be VERY streetable, and VERY reliable.. its been done OVER AND OVER..
better ALL AROUND?
cobra...
better per dollar ALL AROUND?
cora...
is that what you want to hear, will it make you sleep better? cause its the honest truth...
now going back to the conversation on hand, INSTEAD of you changing it to make the cobra look more superior...
IN DRAG RACING is the cobra better than in 05-06 GTO considering mod for mod and dollar for dollar?
no.. the gto is better in almost all scenarios..
Yeah I must of miss all the credit you've given the Cobra's in this thread because it seems to me that you have a pretty low opinion of them. I can't sit here and argue track times because I don't track my car. Not that I'm opposed to it, its just something I haven't done. My point is they can accellerate through the air at very quick velocities as soon as you step on it with minumum $ and mods invent. We must be arguing two different thing. Most Terminator owners that I've meet claim some pretty decent times though. Still I bet you that if you do the suspension, tire, and gearing mods a Terminator will hold its own just fine at a track.
Your last part in no way affects my sleep, but I do give you props for admitting that a Cobra is good at what it doesn't, and it makes you look like your not as blindly byiast to a particular brand as you looked a few post ago. A bone stock Terminator runs 8 psi, but again thats a stupid and irrelevant argument. See which makes more at 19 or 20 psi... Oh wait you'll be buying a new motor if you try and push that kind of boost through a stock LS2, probably even on race gas. A higher compression, larger displacement motor should naturally make more power psi for psi. A N/A 4v should make more power with equal blowers psi for psi until it blows as it has a higher compression ratio.
Yeah I must of miss all the credit you've given the Cobra's in this thread because it seems to me that you have a pretty low opinion of them. I can't sit here and argue track times because I don't track my car. Not that I'm opposed to it, its just something I haven't done. My point is they can accellerate through the air at very quick velocities as soon as you step on it with minumum $ and mods invent. We must be arguing two different thing. Most Terminator owners that I've meet claim some pretty decent times though. Still I bet you that if you do the suspension, tire, and gearing mods a Terminator will hold its own just fine at a track.
Your last part in no way affects my sleep, but I do give you props for admitting that a Cobra is good at what it doesn't, and it makes you look like your not as blindly byiast to a particular brand as you looked a few post ago. A bone stock Terminator runs 8 psi, but again thats a stupid and irrelevant argument. See which makes more at 19 or 20 psi... Oh wait you'll be buying a new motor if you try and push that kind of boost through a stock LS2, probably even on race gas. A higher compression, larger displacement motor should naturally make more power psi for psi. A N/A 4v should make more power with equal blowers psi for psi until it blows as it has a higher compression ratio.
basically.. what i just read...
you admitted that you know nothing about drag times... for either party... and thats ALL we have been talking about..
i on the other hand... drag times is ALL i know.. i dont know what handles better for the most part between most cars... dont know which one brakes better...
i know ET's/traps/60ft.... ET is the only one that matters.. and is what i have been arguing for.. if you want to talk anything else... im out, because trap speed doesnt matter at all.. roll racing is ghey.. and anything else, i am too ignorant about, and would be made to look a fool.. so no reason for that..
i have met many ls1 owners that "claim" times.... i dont believe anyone until i see a slip, or see them go down the track..
i have been trying my hardest through the entire thread to post exactly that kind of thinking.. i have absolutely thought that way the entire time..
there are plenty of people in here that look MUCH MUCH more biased than myself..
as for forced induction.. i could care less.. i do on motor what most people do with FI.. with nitrous, im beyond what the majority does with FI.. i could care less how many PSI either car can hold.. and if you wanted to play that game... you could ask who would pick up more on a cam swap..... honestly, i dont know what a cobra would.. but i would bet money it wouldnt be anywhere near 60ish rwhp.. does that make it inferior? absolutely not.. you just have to mod according to your platform...
and FWIW, again, not that i care.. but an ls1 on 4-5psi will make more power than a cobra on 8psi... will it hold 20pi on the stock bottom end... hell no.. it wasnt designed for that... but 2k$ and it will..
again, it doesnt matter.. was just posting it up for anyone that was interested..
but again as i stated many posts ago.... Dyno numbers dont mean jack shit... the top 3-4 lines of the board that flash up after your pass is all that matters..
Only other thing I have to say is stop talking shit about how hard it is to race a Cobra from a dig. As long as you dont wheel hop its just like launching any other car. Good sticky tires and a good burnout and it wont wheel hop. If you cant launch it decent then its you not the car. I cut low 1.60 short times with mine. Stock rear, DR's, stock half shafts. The only thing I have is H&R race springs which actually probably hurt in a drag race.
FWIW I had a good friend with a 01 Z28. That thing would wheel hop so bad the whole goddamn dash would shake. LOL We used to give him hell about it.
Point being the Cobra got a bad rep for launching. Especially the 99 and 01 model years. They fixed alot in 03 and things are much better. In fact they are just fine.
What happened is it got around it was so hard to launch and now people try to use it as an excuse for "their" shitty performance and an excuse to talk shit.
When in reality its a great rear that handles great, corners great and can cut some sick 60' times.
Only other thing I have to say is stop talking shit about how hard it is to race a Cobra from a dig. As long as you dont wheel hop its just like launching any other car. Good sticky tires and a good burnout and it wont wheel hop. If you cant launch it decent then its you not the car. I cut low 1.60 short times with mine. Stock rear, DR's, stock half shafts. The only thing I have is H&R race springs which actually probably hurt in a drag race.
FWIW I had a good friend with a 01 Z28. That thing would wheel hop so bad the whole goddamn dash would shake. LOL We used to give him hell about it.
Point being the Cobra got a bad rep for launching. Especially the 99 and 01 model years. They fixed alot in 03 and things are much better. In fact they are just fine.
What happened is it got around it was so hard to launch and now people try to use it as an excuse for "their" shitty performance and an excuse to talk shit.
When in reality its a great rear that handles great, corners great and can cut some sick 60' times.
It aint no f'n 10 bolt!
i will believe what you have to say about the rear ends... because i honestly dont know that much about them..
BUT! lol....
i cut 1.5s last night lifting the front tires a foot off the ground and spinning... (yes you read that right).. dont want to go into details..
my 10 bolt is fine.. i have plenty of friends that cut low-mid 1.4s on it.. for MANY MANY MANY passes (as in 100+ passes)..
its not as shitty as people crack it up to be... but it could DEFINITELY use some improvement (like a 9")
i will believe what you have to say about the rear ends... because i honestly dont know that much about them..
BUT! lol....
i cut 1.5s last night lifting the front tires a foot off the ground and spinning... (yes you read that right).. dont want to go into details..
my 10 bolt is fine.. i have plenty of friends that cut low-mid 1.4s on it.. for MANY MANY MANY passes (as in 100+ passes)..
its not as shitty as people crack it up to be... but it could DEFINITELY use some improvement (like a 9")
Yeah 9's all the way around(for me and you) would be nice. LOL
Ive just heard bad things about the 10 bolt. Seems the LS guys complain more about that than anything. Just like the Cobra guys. But like I said its probably more to do with drivers than the part. The nut loose behind the wheel.
Goes back to my post earlier. Alot of guys with their first fast car and dont race. Oh and "ignoracity". LOL
I could have made my fbody faster than my Cobra for a lot less money, but performance isn't the only thing you're paying for. My fbody was loud, had a big cam, gear, SRA, it burned oil, the t-tops leaked, etc. My Cobra has cats, is docile as **** with 500rwhp+, (rides like a bone stock car) has an IRS which makes daily driving a lot more pleasurable and yes it was very cheap to mod. 
(no im not joking... the parachute etc. kinda gave it away...)
There are also plenty of Eaton cars with a shot of gas running Mid- 10's. It all depends on geography. I hope you don't think I'm trying to be a dick, as that is NOT the case. You, as you stated, are just defending the LS camp, where as I am defending the Ford side. I have driven fine specimens from both camps, and the LS is a great engine series. But Ford regained the streets when they started putting blowers on their cars. Unfortunately for GM, cubes have always been their forte. Boost beats cubes in the aftermarket because it's cheaper to make more. A pulley is cheaper than a stroker and heads. When the Cobra got blown, the LS just wasn't on the same level anymore. The GTO/LS's competition now rests with the 3 valve GT's that are similar in power (with minor bolt-ons), which again, is why I won't even bother with them. That might be the reason you have not been threatened/contested by a Cobra in your area. However, once the modding begins, the guy with the bigger wallet wins everytime.
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