like i have said.. a cobra is LEAPS AND BOUNDS a overall better car than a gto... but at the drag strip, i TOTALLY disagree... and to me, thats all that matters... especially since thats the topic on hand.. is the gto hands down better at the strip... no... but on average... yes..
Of course your opinion/point of view is all that matters. You've made that obvious. At the strip, the better setup wins. A stock GTO is NOT superior to a stock Cobra. They both have shortfalls. BUT, stock suspended cars can get it done too. HP per pound mixed with traction will decide the better car, period.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemons12
you sound so ignorant i dont even know if i should respond.. but for all inquiring minds, i will....
when i talked about the GTO with a parachute, i was making a joke saying all gtos werent slow.. OF COURSE i dont think thats near a street car... omg...
did i personally see it run? no.. but my buddy said it let out at half track cause they couldnt keep it in between the lines and the nose down.. ran like a mid 5@ like 90 or something like that... im going to guess its a LITTLE faster than a 13... wouldnt you.. it was a ****ing pro-mod dude... again i say, some of you in this thread need some experience in drag racing... like ACTUALLY going to the strip and participating..
I work at a track dude. I race my car every chance i get. I knew you were kidding bro, I'm not stupid. That's why I included the blurb about the Pro-Stock GTO. You should be careful who you call ignorant...I never called you ignorant. I respected your posts enough to read all of them and even agree with parts of what you said. You should do the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemons12
well, i could honestly care less if cobra owners dont pay attention to GTOs... beings i drive a trans am...
your probably right, it would be a waste for you to run me.. im sure id slaughter you..
when you get back.. but im sure ill never hear of you.. let me know.. we can meet up at the track.. put a few hundred on it... and you will be going back home X amount of money poorer..
I'll tell you what...I've seen your sig. If that's true, then to make it fair, I'd probably have to run on bald street tires. But hell you're so sure that you'll slaughter me...
My sig in case you missed it...
Silver 2004 SVT
Twin 60mm Garrett Turbo's
Complete Maximum Motorports (and QA1) Suspension
Huge Brakes
Loud Audio
Silver and Carbon Fiber with matching Glock
900 HP Daily Driven Boulevard Monster
"VPR KLR"
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemons12
2k in a gto...... full bolt ons and a NICE cam only setup... on the juice... *PLENTY* fast enough more mid 10s....
what could 2k get you in a cobra? high 10s... but not on the norm as stated in this thread..
so how much "better" are they at drag racing again?
Do you factor in race wheels/slicks into that equation? That takes up almost half (if not more) of that. You are talking about a Cobra like its a living thing that drives itself and you talk a big game for someone that probably runs mid-11's. I know Civic's that run that, maybe they should beat you first.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemons12
your proving my whole arguement in this thread in this one single post.......... ON AVERAGE a H/C ls1/gto whatever is going to beat a modified cobra at the track... ON AVERAGE.... thank you for agreeing with EVERYTHING i have been trying to get across to you guys..
If we're agreeing with you, why are you still arguing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemons12
again with the attitude of you thinking my car would be a waste of gas money for your car... you would be VERY sour with the outcome.. just because you have seen a few H/C ls1s that dont run as fast as your car, doesnt mean mine wont.. say GTOs are slow all you want.. but be careful bashing someones car that you dont even know.... and yes, i will say 100 X's, that i have FULL confidence that my car will drag yours and probably most peoples in this thread up and down the track..
i have time slips... do you guys?
if so, why dont we stop this bickering REAL fast and post some times up.. that could show a LOT...
I would love to post my timeslips, except I forgot to pack them for my trip to Iraq. My bad. We can run any way you want...street, track, auto X, top end, hell we can even go Need for Speed style and do a Time Attack...and I promise you, unless I break something, you don't have enough. But if we are going to do this, I insist that you at least pay for my gas, considering, I will be wasting it making your T/A look silly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemons12
IN DRAG RACING is the cobra better than in 05-06 GTO considering mod for mod and dollar for dollar?
no.. the gto is better in almost all scenarios..
I might give you stock for stock the GTO MAY have the slightest of advantage ON THE TRACK over a STOCK Cobra due to the IRS.
But dollar for dollar, mod for mod, the GTO is not even in the same class as the Cobra. Just think about it before getting all pissed off like you do. The weakest link in the Cobra is the IRS, put a 9 inch back there (or even an 8.8) and you've added bulletproof reliability. Put an auto with a transbrake, and you just made it a strip terror. J. Mihovetz runs in the 6's with a 4V/auto/turbo combo. Not to mention the NUMEROUS guys in the 8's and 9's with street driven Cobra's. Am I saying there are no GTO's running those times? NO! But you will see FAR more Cobra's running those times, then you ever will GTO's.
____________________________________
Silver 2004 SVT
Twin 57mm Garrett Turbo's
Complete Maximum Motorports (and QA1) Suspension
Huge Brakes
Loud Audio
Silver and Carbon Fiber with matching Glock
900 HP Daily Driven Boulevard Monster
Im not gonna quote because you guys know what im talking about. 2K for a full bolt on, cam only, NOS car? Yeah right. WTF ever. Hell what I consider a good NOS setup is 2K. What I call a good exhaust(Headers back) is close to 2k. Plus Full bolton is? Intake, exhaust, filter kit, MAF, TB, Tune, tires, gears, shifter, clutch etc...
You aint gettin any car with fullbolt ons, cam, and NOS for no damn 2K. Try 5-6K. If you install yourself.
____________________________________ Michael 2003 Satin Silver Cobra #46 Custom Tuned by ATS
Boss330 Racing Shortblock
Stage III Steig w/2.93/4lb.
"Ive seen alot of people that thought they were cool... Then again lord Ive seen alot of fools"
you admitted that you know nothing about drag times... for either party... and thats ALL we have been talking about..
i on the other hand... drag times is ALL i know.. i dont know what handles better for the most part between most cars... dont know which one brakes better...
i know ET's/traps/60ft.... ET is the only one that matters.. and is what i have been arguing for.. if you want to talk anything else... im out, because trap speed doesnt matter at all.. roll racing is ghey.. and anything else, i am too ignorant about, and would be made to look a fool.. so no reason for that..
i have met many ls1 owners that "claim" times.... i dont believe anyone until i see a slip, or see them go down the track..
i have been trying my hardest through the entire thread to post exactly that kind of thinking.. i have absolutely thought that way the entire time..
there are plenty of people in here that look MUCH MUCH more biased than myself..
as for forced induction.. i could care less.. i do on motor what most people do with FI.. with nitrous, im beyond what the majority does with FI.. i could care less how many PSI either car can hold.. and if you wanted to play that game... you could ask who would pick up more on a cam swap..... honestly, i dont know what a cobra would.. but i would bet money it wouldnt be anywhere near 60ish rwhp.. does that make it inferior? absolutely not.. you just have to mod according to your platform...
and FWIW, again, not that i care.. but an ls1 on 4-5psi will make more power than a cobra on 8psi... will it hold 20pi on the stock bottom end... hell no.. it wasnt designed for that... but 2k$ and it will..
again, it doesnt matter.. was just posting it up for anyone that was interested..
but again as i stated many posts ago.... Dyno numbers dont mean jack shit... the top 3-4 lines of the board that flash up after your pass is all that matters..
You obviously do care about what a car makes at any particular psi because y'all keep bringing it up. Don't sit there and tell me "If I want to play that game" because y'all are the mofo who keep bringing this stupid hp per psi argument up. Thats as stupid as me saying give me a 3.9" bore with 346 ci and see who makes more N/A hp. Sure a 4v would probably make more hp, but thats not the case so its irrelivant.
A cam shouldn't gain as much power with a blown car because they make the motor breath better which lowers boost pressures, but if you pulley the car to make the same psi as before who knows. The shop I use built a 600 whp ported Eaton Cobra with a factory short block and ported heads and custom ground cams, so obviously cams and ported head are benefitial when setup right on Terminators. You try and push yourself off as one of those, "I'm a hard ass drag racing mofo," but I don't care. Good for you. The lights are all that matter to you. props!
Also 2K for a full built motor made to handle high boost pressures? lol, Right! Quality parts sure have gone down recently I guess. You'll still be pay well over 6K for the blower setup though, and you will be doing all the labor yourself.
You have no bones about calling Terminators "SLOW" because you feel they don't run good ET's for the power they make. "SLOW" is a pretty bold statement to make about a Terminator on svtp. Thats getting up their towards the top of not only the SVT pecking order, but the Ford pecking order as well. That would be like me going on Tech and claiming that I thought C5Z's were slow for whatever reason. That would probably ruffle a few feathers and have a few people saying why don't you come run me so I can hand you your ass. Terminators are not "SLOW" by any means, and there are plenty of examples of people running fast times with them.
I still can't figure out why your in the market for a Terminator as you claim that a fast ET is all that matters to you, yet you think that Terminators suck at running ET's? Why don't you just buy yourself another Fbody, GTO, or ZO6 because from your opinions of these cars it seem like you would be happier with one of those seeing as how roll racing is gay, and DR'ing is all that matters to you, and Terminators suck at it?
____________________________________ Born: 9/2/02...# 2512 of 8394
Mods:
Magnaflow Catback with Ford Racing M55 Mufflers, MAC Prochamber, Steeda Tri-Ax, K&N FIPK, 2.93" upper pulley, MM FLSFC, MM K-Member Brace, MM Coilovers, ac427cobra's Complete IRS Bushings, Billetflow IRS Brace, 18x9 Front, 18x10.5 Rear AFS factory replicas, McLeod RST TD Clutch, Ram Billet Aluminum Flywheel, LFP DP H/E, ETC.
Last edited by Jroc; 04-19-2009 at 01:57 AM.
Reason: Many grammar errors
Yeah 9's all the way around(for me and you) would be nice. LOL
Ive just heard bad things about the 10 bolt. Seems the LS guys complain more about that than anything. Just like the Cobra guys. But like I said its probably more to do with drivers than the part. The nut loose behind the wheel.
Goes back to my post earlier. Alot of guys with their first fast car and dont race. Oh and "ignoracity". LOL
yea, it is the weakest link... and usually the last thing people do for some reason... im just waiting for mine to go, knock on wood..
ignoracity... i might just start using that..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokin04
Of course your opinion/point of view is all that matters. You've made that obvious. At the strip, the better setup wins. A stock GTO is NOT superior to a stock Cobra. They both have shortfalls. BUT, stock suspended cars can get it done too. HP per pound mixed with traction will decide the better car, period.
I work at a track dude. I race my car every chance i get. I knew you were kidding bro, I'm not stupid. That's why I included the blurb about the Pro-Stock GTO. You should be careful who you call ignorant...I never called you ignorant. I respected your posts enough to read all of them and even agree with parts of what you said. You should do the same.
I'll tell you what...I've seen your sig. If that's true, then to make it fair, I'd probably have to run on bald street tires. But hell you're so sure that you'll slaughter me...
My sig in case you missed it...
Silver 2004 SVT
Twin 60mm Garrett Turbo's
Complete Maximum Motorports (and QA1) Suspension
Huge Brakes
Loud Audio
Silver and Carbon Fiber with matching Glock
900 HP Daily Driven Boulevard Monster
"VPR KLR"
Do you factor in race wheels/slicks into that equation? That takes up almost half (if not more) of that. You are talking about a Cobra like its a living thing that drives itself and you talk a big game for someone that probably runs mid-11's. I know Civic's that run that, maybe they should beat you first.
If we're agreeing with you, why are you still arguing?
I would love to post my timeslips, except I forgot to pack them for my trip to Iraq. My bad. We can run any way you want...street, track, auto X, top end, hell we can even go Need for Speed style and do a Time Attack...and I promise you, unless I break something, you don't have enough. But if we are going to do this, I insist that you at least pay for my gas, considering, I will be wasting it making your T/A look silly.
I might give you stock for stock the GTO MAY have the slightest of advantage ON THE TRACK over a STOCK Cobra due to the IRS.
But dollar for dollar, mod for mod, the GTO is not even in the same class as the Cobra. Just think about it before getting all pissed off like you do. The weakest link in the Cobra is the IRS, put a 9 inch back there (or even an 8.8) and you've added bulletproof reliability. Put an auto with a transbrake, and you just made it a strip terror. J. Mihovetz runs in the 6's with a 4V/auto/turbo combo. Not to mention the NUMEROUS guys in the 8's and 9's with street driven Cobra's. Am I saying there are no GTO's running those times? NO! But you will see FAR more Cobra's running those times, then you ever will GTO's.
my opinion is FAR from all that matters.. i have looked at what every single person in this thread has said.. whether i agree or not.. and i think about it, BEFORE i post..
no, stock for stock it is far from superior... i would give them equality... modded, (not heavily built ie. trans swaps, stripped cars, motor swaps, etc..) the GTO gets the edge.. like you said later in this post..
it didnt seem like you knew i was kidding.. if you havnt noticed i cant hear sarcasm in your posts... i honestly had NO respect for your post at first.. i quoted it before i was done reading... i had read enough to know i wanted to reply on one thing.. when i reply i go section for section.. i got to the end of yours and saw you werent being an ass... just seemed that way i suppose..
SO! my post towards yours would have been completely different, im just too damn lazy to change everything i said.. honest to god truth...
i understand again your sarcasm... i dont think bald street tires would quite get the job done.. but who knows.. i dont hardly ever look a sigs.. and didnt yours either..
out of curiosity what do you run in the 1/8? i ask this because its all i run...too far for me for a 1/4.. wouldnt mind if you post up 1/4 also..
to have slicks....... 300ish$ for the tires... mount them on stock rims..
i run a bit faster than mid 11s.. i know civics that run 8s... what does that prove?
i wasnt, me and JDM were BSing..
looking at your setup, you should beat me.. pretty good... but how much do you have invested into your car agian?
much much more than i im sure of that..
i have not once took ANYTHING in this thread serious... its all fun and games.. and a learning experience.. not sure if anyone else is learning anything, but i sure as hell am..
theres DD turbo trans ams in the 9s also... if your going to talk GTOs you have to talk camaro's trans ams' and vettes too.. they all have ls1s.. there are FAR FAR few GTOs drag raced than the latter.. and far more cobras im sure drag raced than gtos..
____________________________________ l '00 Trans Am -- Enough to bitch slap Ls1pussout, if he would show up of course.. l '00 Trans Am-- Girlfriends car -- 8.4@85.5mph 2300DA l '02 CBR 954RR -- sprocket / full exhaust / filter sold l '98 Trans Am -- H/C no tune/traction 7.2@95.5 motor 2500DA sold YouTube - I'm the Regulator Bitch
Honestly I haven't made a clean pass with the turbo setup yet because I keep breaking the IRS. Done it 3 times now. But I'm determined to get it right dammit. I can't keep track of how much money I have in the car anymore. The turbo setup alone was 13K. to get it running right. The Civic thing...I was talking shit, kind of irritated when I wrote that. I have eaten my humble pie too (got smashed by an 8 sec. import) at the track. Didn't think I would beat him from the git go though.
Must be nice for $300 slicks. My wheel/tire setup cost 800...used.
On street tires (for shits and giggles) I've trapped 130 with a jaw dropping 2.7 60'. But I've got my two step ready so i can get some boost off the line, and I've changed my gear/tire package for optimized 1/4 time. With unlimited power and traction I can mechanically reach 156 in the 1/4 with that combo. I'm also sorting out my race tune as the previous power figure was obtained with the pump gas tune and 17 psi.
I'm hoping for mid/low 9's, but hell we all are ain't we?
Yo hate to hurt your GM feelings I know your car market is really reall in the whole buddy but your LS2SLOW GTO is not running in the low 11's sorry and a Pullied cobra with a ported blower will destroy your HEads Cams and Exhuast and whatever else you guys do ya it will beat the dog shit out of it man sorry WE THINK SMARTER NOT HARDER
You quoted my post, but nothing, absolutely nothing you have responded with has anything to do with me...I don't even own a GTO...Way to represent the Cobra....Fanboi..
____________________________________
2006 Corvette coupe / Corsa Sport w/ mid-pipe
1999 Mustang GT (stock)
Saleen rims
[quote=lemons12;8164726]yea, it is the weakest link... and usually the last thing people do for some reason... im just waiting for mine to go, knock on wood..
ignoracity... i might just start using that..
LOL. Use it well my friend. I used all my creativity to come up with that one.
Im not gonna quote because you guys know what im talking about. 2K for a full bolt on, cam only, NOS car? Yeah right. WTF ever. Hell what I consider a good NOS setup is 2K. What I call a good exhaust(Headers back) is close to 2k. Plus Full bolton is? Intake, exhaust, filter kit, MAF, TB, Tune, tires, gears, shifter, clutch etc...
You aint gettin any car with fullbolt ons, cam, and NOS for no damn 2K. Try 5-6K. If you install yourself.
i did it..... i have 5k in my entire setup... thats full bolt ons stall cam heads supporting mods for those rear end girdle nitrous intake rims tires etc etc etc etc...
i have right at 2k when i was cam only, and i had a pretty good cam only car.. (that price was with my nitrous setup, it was a nice setup.. a plate kit)
i believe you guys when you tell me something about a cobra.. price wise, how good a part is etc.. but you dont believe me when i say something...
cam=250
intake=300
gears=250
stall=300
LTs/cutout=320
tune=300
springs/pushrods=250
lid=50
i wont post a price on a kit because it totally depends on the kit..
you posted MAF in with bolt ons... there is NO reason you need a MAF on an ls1.. most of the time they run worse with an aftermarket MAF..
i dont need a shifter/clutch... im talking A4... dont know what it costs to build a m6..
i was running mid 11s@119ish with that setup.
fbodies are CHEAP to build.. and to make go decently quick..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jroc
You obviously do care about what a car makes at any particular psi because y'all keep bringing it up. Don't sit there and tell me "If I want to play that game" because y'all are the mofo who keep bringing this stupid hp per psi argument up. Thats as stupid as me saying give me a 3.9" bore with 346 ci and see who makes more N/A hp. Sure a 4v would probably make more hp, but thats not the case so its irrelivant.
A cam shouldn't gain as much power with a blown car because they make the motor breath better which lowers boost pressures, but if you pulley the car to make the same psi as before who knows. The shop I use built a 600 whp ported Eaton Cobra with a factory short block and ported heads and custom ground cams, so obviously cams and ported head are benefitial when setup right on Terminators. You try and push yourself off as one of those, "I'm a hard ass drag racing mofo," but I don't care. Good for you. The lights are all that matter to you. props!
Also 2K for a full built motor? lol, Right! Quality parts sure have gone down recently I guess. You'll still be pay well over 6K for the blower setup though.
You have no bones about calling a Terminators "SLOW" because you feel they don't run good et's for the power they make. SLOW is a pretty bold statement to make about a Terminator on svtp. Thats getting up their toward the top of not only the SVT pecking order, but the Ford pecking order as well. That would be like me going on Tech and claiming that I thought C5Z's were slow so whatever reason. That would probably ruffle a few feathers and have a few people saying why don't you come run me so I can hand you your ass. Terminators are not "SLOW" by any means, and there are plenty of examples of people running fast times with them.
I still can't figure out why your in the market for a Terminator as you claim that a fast ET is all that matters to you, yet you think that Terminators suck that running ET's? Why don't you just buy yourself another Fbody, GTO, or ZO6 because from your opinions of these cars it seem like you would be happier with one of those seeing as how roll racing is gay, and DR'ing is all that matters to you, and Terminators suck at it?
i didnt bring it up... i just touch based cause it was being discussed... i dont know who first brought it up..
i know why a cam wouldnt.. i was saying... that saying that is the same as asking what a blower on an ls1... etc.. you get it... all im saying is none of it matters.. and i know why none of it matters.. you guys need to stop reading what im saying and understanding it the way you want to.. instead, read what im saying and take its true meaning..
i dont try to push myself as one.. i am one.. i never called myself a bad ass mother ****er though.. but i am a die hard drag racer... no corners.. not even on my bike.. not autox.. nothing except straight line from a dig.
stock... a terminator is slow... along with all vettes, ferraris, ls1s, ls2s, etc, lambos, 600cc bikes, etc, etc, etc... the list could go on....
now talking modded.... ALL of that changes, ANYTHING can be made to go fast...
just because my definition of fast isnt the same as yours doesnt mean anything.. im assuming you think a 10 second car is fast.. i dont.. its decent, but by no means fast, nowadays 10s is the norm and nothing special..... 9s is getting it.. 8s is fast.. 7s is ****ing sick..
11s run of the mill.. 12s is slow.. 13s you need to mod your bitch ASAP.. 14s.. you get the picture..
of course this is at a strip... on the street, i have a little different view, but not too much different.. and, depending on what a car is doing to get there impacts it a bit... i dont think a 10 second FI is anything to boast about... i think a 10 second NA is impressive.. 9 second FI is gettin it.. 9 second NA is screaming..
i have a different outlook on fast than most people do.. but its all what you get use to driving/seeing/being around..
we discussed why i was in the market a few pages ago..
i have already explained it.. i will still own my TA.. it will still be my drag car.. i dont expect the terminator to hold a candle to it.. im thinking of a terminator for said reason a few pages back.. it wont be a track car.. it will be a nice DD car that i have a little fun in..
if i wanted my extra DD car to be a weekend/track warrior at the same time.. i would buy a C5Zo6.. but thats not exactly what i want it for..
i've seen gtos with full exhaust including L/T headers, drag radials, 100 shot, and a few other boltons that i cant remember go best of 12.2 at 116 with 2.2 60ft out of the 4 runs he made that night. and a few other bolt on gtos go mid to upper 13s. gtos have independent rears also so they have no advantage over a cobra off the line.
Honestly I haven't made a clean pass with the turbo setup yet because I keep breaking the IRS. Done it 3 times now. But I'm determined to get it right dammit. I can't keep track of how much money I have in the car anymore. The turbo setup alone was 13K. to get it running right. The Civic thing...I was talking shit, kind of irritated when I wrote that. I have eaten my humble pie too (got smashed by an 8 sec. import) at the track. Didn't think I would beat him from the git go though.
Must be nice for $300 slicks. My wheel/tire setup cost 800...used.
On street tires (for shits and giggles) I've trapped 130 with a jaw dropping 2.7 60'. But I've got my two step ready so i can get some boost off the line, and I've changed my gear/tire package for optimized 1/4 time. With unlimited power and traction I can mechanically reach 156 in the 1/4 with that combo. I'm also sorting out my race tune as the previous power figure was obtained with the pump gas tune and 17 psi.
I'm hoping for mid/low 9's, but hell we all are ain't we?
SOOOOOO... i guess since you havnt made a pass... and i have.........
ahhahaa.. jk man.. hope you get it all worked out.. im still trying..
turbo setup was 13k!?!?!??!! wow.. thats insane.. im not saying this to boast, it just surprises me its that Fing expensive.. i have 12k in my entire car..
i run on 26" ET streets.. they are pretty inexpensive.. and i have them on a set of stock alloy 16 inch camaro rims... i bought the tires brand new mounted on the rims for 150$.... but in reality i think they are around 300 for the tires, so i posted that price..
right now i believe im at a 122-123 trap on motor.. dont know what id do on nitrous yet, havnt spray the car... id guess mid 130s??? i dont know though..
i figured thats about what you run.. ill be happy with 6.4s in the 1/8.. but am shooting for 6.3s... which i believe is a low low 10 pass.. not bad for what i have in the car though..
Quote:
Originally Posted by C6 Vette
You quoted my post, but nothing, absolutely nothing you have responded with has anything to do with me...I don't even own a GTO...Way to represent the Cobra....Fanboi..
im still waiting for him to reply to me.. i would love to drag him down the track.. if he even owns a terminator, or hell anything worth racing actually.. its probably a 1995 GT with a flowmaster on it...
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMD0346
LOL. Use it well my friend. I used all my creativity to come up with that one.
hahaha, i will.... and i bet it did... worked for that one!
i've seen gtos with full exhaust including L/T headers, drag radials, 100 shot, and a few other boltons that i cant remember go best of 12.2 at 116 with 2.2 60ft out of the 4 runs he made that night. and a few other bolt on gtos go mid to upper 13s. gtos have independent rears also so they have no advantage over a cobra off the line.
ive seens stock gtos run low 13s... and seen bolt ons in the low-mid 12s.. seen H/C in low mid 11s...
[quote=lemons12;8164764]i did it..... i have 5k in my entire setup... thats full bolt ons stall cam heads supporting mods for those rear end girdle nitrous intake rims tires etc etc etc etc...
i have right at 2k when i was cam only, and i had a pretty good cam only car.. (that price was with my nitrous setup, it was a nice setup.. a plate kit)
i believe you guys when you tell me something about a cobra.. price wise, how good a part is etc.. but you dont believe me when i say something...
Ok. I see. A few things I would do different but I get where your going. You left out the N2O kit though. Which IMO I wouldnt have a N2O kit that I didnt spend 1500-2K on. Im anal. Id want everything controlled. I was also figuring Y/X pipe, catback etc... too.
Dont get all mushy on me. Im listening to you too. I like to learn too. Sometimes I like to learn the hard way. LOL!
One thing I will say all jokes aside. It does take more money to mod these fords than it does those chebys.
i did it..... i have 5k in my entire setup... thats full bolt ons stall cam heads supporting mods for those rear end girdle nitrous intake rims tires etc etc etc etc...
i have right at 2k when i was cam only, and i had a pretty good cam only car.. (that price was with my nitrous setup, it was a nice setup.. a plate kit)
i believe you guys when you tell me something about a cobra.. price wise, how good a part is etc.. but you dont believe me when i say something...
cam=250
intake=300
gears=250
stall=300
LTs/cutout=320
tune=300
springs/pushrods=250
lid=50
i wont post a price on a kit because it totally depends on the kit..
you posted MAF in with bolt ons... there is NO reason you need a MAF on an ls1.. most of the time they run worse with an aftermarket MAF..
i dont need a shifter/clutch... im talking A4... dont know what it costs to build a m6..
i was running mid 11s@119ish with that setup.
fbodies are CHEAP to build.. and to make go decently quick..
i didnt bring it up... i just touch based cause it was being discussed... i dont know who first brought it up..
i know why a cam wouldnt.. i was saying... that saying that is the same as asking what a blower on an ls1... etc.. you get it... all im saying is none of it matters.. and i know why none of it matters.. you guys need to stop reading what im saying and understanding it the way you want to.. instead, read what im saying and take its true meaning..
i dont try to push myself as one.. i am one.. i never called myself a bad ass mother ****er though.. but i am a die hard drag racer... no corners.. not even on my bike.. not autox.. nothing except straight line from a dig.
stock... a terminator is slow... along with all vettes, ferraris, ls1s, ls2s, etc, lambos, 600cc bikes, etc, etc, etc... the list could go on....
now talking modded.... ALL of that changes, ANYTHING can be made to go fast...
just because my definition of fast isnt the same as yours doesnt mean anything.. im assuming you think a 10 second car is fast.. i dont.. its decent, but by no means fast, nowadays 10s is the norm and nothing special..... 9s is getting it.. 8s is fast.. 7s is ****ing sick..
11s run of the mill.. 12s is slow.. 13s you need to mod your bitch ASAP.. 14s.. you get the picture..
of course this is at a strip... on the street, i have a little different view, but not too much different.. and, depending on what a car is doing to get there impacts it a bit... i dont think a 10 second FI is anything to boast about... i think a 10 second NA is impressive.. 9 second FI is gettin it.. 9 second NA is screaming..
i have a different outlook on fast than most people do.. but its all what you get use to driving/seeing/being around..
we discussed why i was in the market a few pages ago..
i have already explained it.. i will still own my TA.. it will still be my drag car.. i dont expect the terminator to hold a candle to it.. im thinking of a terminator for said reason a few pages back.. it wont be a track car.. it will be a nice DD car that i have a little fun in..
if i wanted my extra DD car to be a weekend/track warrior at the same time.. i would buy a C5Zo6.. but thats not exactly what i want it for..
IDK why your so opposed to a C5Z. Its a better performance car, that can be had for about the same $, that is built on a more modern/refined platform, and will get you better gas mileage, in a more comfortable. I DD my Cobra but their really not the best at it. Sure the motor is easily dosile enough for it, but its built on a old, dated platform, and doesn't have the niceties as say a Vette or even a GTO. Its just like a Fbody, sure you can DD it, but if thats all your looking for there are much better choices. I just don't like seeing people get Terminators who don't appretiate them for what they are which is badass cars. You can buy whatever you want ofcourse, but it seems like you really don't like the car.
BTW building a good N/A setup doesn't cost as much as building a good FI setup.
Ok. I see. A few things I would do different but I get where your going. You left out the N2O kit though. Which IMO I wouldnt have a N2O kit that I didnt spend 1500-2K on. Im anal. Id want everything controlled. I was also figuring Y/X pipe, catback etc... too.
Dont get all mushy on me. Im listening to you too. I like to learn too. Sometimes I like to learn the hard way. LOL!
One thing I will say all jokes aside. It does take more money to mod these fords than it does those chebys.
i meant to add a * in there.... i put a price for nitrous.. but theres so many options on nitrous you cant put a price on it..
i paid 275 for mine with bottle, wires, purge, noids, brackets, etc.. it was a very nice plate kit..
i did my entire Xpipe and mufflers for 400.. custom bent and spent 100$ on each muffler.. could have got knock offs for 30 bucks a piece, but wanted the real thing.. so LT's XPipe and mufflers= 560..
most of us like to do shit the hard way.. i know i do....
it honestly is DIRT cheap to mod ls1s... its ridiculous how easy/cheap it is.. and i am glad, cause im one poor bastard..
im hitting the sheets for the night guys.. all this "regulating" has wore me out..
play nice guys...
1:30... YouTube - Mustang Drivers are ****ing Stupid
DISCLAIMER---- i have not watched this video.. i have no idea whats said or done in it.. i searched "mustangs are gay"..... you guys know i love you!
IDK why your so opposed to a C5Z. Its a better performance car, that can be had for about the same $, that is built on a more modern/refined platform, and will get you better gas mileage, in a more comfortable. I DD my Cobra but their really not the best at it. Sure the motor is easily dosile enough for it, but its built on a old, dated platform, and doesn't have the niceties as say a Vette or even a GTO. Its just like a Fbody, sure you can DD it, but if thats all your looking for there are much better choices. I just don't like seeing people get Terminators who don't appretiate them for what they are which is badass cars. You can buy whatever you want ofcourse, but it seems like you really don't like the car.
BTW building a good N/A setup doesn't cost as much as building a good FI setup.
im not THAT opposed to it.. the cobra has a back seat.. i actually like the looks a little more.. they handle close to the same i believe.. which honestly i dont care.. the gas mileage isnt TERRIBLE.. but not as good as the Z.. i like the whine of the s/c..
the platform of the zo6 i like hands down more, wish the cobra has the ls6 in it...
no back seat, not crazy about the front of the c5s.. love the rears..
im not dead set on a cobra.. im weighing my options still.. i could go with either one still.. i know more ups and downs on the vette... and am still learning of the cobras.. right now the cobra is the better choice.. but like i said, im still trying to learn!
i know.. i built a cheap/fast to some people NA setup... would cost doubletriple to run close to the same times as i am in an ls1 with FI
im not THAT opposed to it.. the cobra has a back seat.. i actually like the looks a little more.. they handle close to the same i believe.. which honestly i dont care.. the gas mileage isnt TERRIBLE.. but not as good as the Z.. i like the whine of the s/c..
the platform of the zo6 i like hands down more, wish the cobra has the ls6 in it...
I'm pretty sure the ZO6 is the better handler.
Why you would want to downgrade to a LS6? You do understand that the main perk of a Terminator is that it will make a lot of power easily, relitively cheaply, and in a refined/dosile way? Switching to a LS6 would take that away from the car.
SOOOOOO... i guess since you havnt made a pass... and i have.........
ahhahaa.. jk man.. hope you get it all worked out.. im still trying..
turbo setup was 13k!?!?!??!! wow.. thats insane.. im not saying this to boast, it just surprises me its that Fing expensive.. i have 12k in my entire car..
That was with the tune/extra parts to actually get the car running well. I have about 40 full passes in the car (stock and with old KB setup) and the best I could muster (before getting kicked off for no cage)was 11.24 @ 124 on a shake down pass. 18 psi and pump gas with MT drag radials.
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Originally Posted by lemons12
right now i believe im at a 122-123 trap on motor.. dont know what id do on nitrous yet, havnt spray the car... id guess mid 130s??? i dont know though..
How big a shot? To pick up 10-15 mph is at least a 250-300. Billy Glidden style I guess...
That was with the tune/extra parts to actually get the car running well. I have about 40 full passes in the car (stock and with old KB setup) and the best I could muster (before getting kicked off for no cage)was 11.24 @ 124 on a shake down pass. 18 psi and pump gas with MT drag radials.
How big a shot? To pick up 10-15 mph is at least a 250-300. Billy Glidden style I guess...
thats why i was quick to call you out.. i know i run just as fast, probably faster than most ported eaton/pulley/etc.. and im sure a lot of KBs.. NA.. on spray, it would take a good running one.. but i can admit when a car is faster than mine! and im sure once you get yours dialed in, it will be..
thats why i said i didnt know.. i know my 1/8 times to a "T".. but not my 1/4..
the sad part is... you just proved my point.. your say ported pullied cobras are running what i run.... guess what im a NA H/C ls1... how impressive is that? not very..
not only did you say that there are some, you say that isnt the norm..
Think about what's all involved in doing a port & pulley, you don't even need headers and only about 2 hours worth of labor. The ease of power is what's impressive to me, the fact that your automatic fbody with a stall, gear and slicks can run quicker times doesn't make it less impressive. Don't get me wrong, a H/C/I LS1 IS impressive by itself, but requires a lot more work than your average pullied Cobra, (in my experience having owned BOTH platforms). I'm not "retaliating", I'm giving credit to both platforms. Like I said, I think both are equally impressive, people just take different routes to make them fast and they excel in different ways depending on certain factors & how they're setup, (tire, suspension driver, auto vs 6spd, race-weight, etc).
With a little weight reduction and a solid rear axle 03-04 Cobras have run mid 10s at 450rwhp power levels, automatic/stalled Cobras have run low 10s/high 9s with bolt-ons and a small shot of gas. I think you're underestimating what a car properly setup for drag will accomplish. Of course an automatic will perform better than a 6spd at a track, as an example I can post countless auto fbodys putting 6spd full-weight fbodys to SHAME at a drag strip with less power.
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i have raced many fox's at the strip... ranging from "mild to wild"... VERY few beat me.. most are tubbed and gutted full out race cars that were tailored to the track with no license plate... i drive to the track and change tires.. race.. change tires, and drive back home and to work the next day..
Are you saying a fox has to be a gutted, tubbed out race car to go fast? There are foxes on this forum that run 8s on 17inch wheels and tires in full street trim driven to and from the track. They're light to begin with, gutting them isn't necessary.
If you think fbodys are cheap to build, you should see what can be done for the money using an old Fox roller.
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and ive seen H/C goats run low 11s.. dont see a point there?
ive seen pullied cobras run low 11s-high 12s... doesnt mean much..
My point is it takes a lot more work to make a heads/cam/intake goat run low 11s then it does an already blown Cobra that is lighter. A Cobra is already at an advantage stock. Add simple bolt-ons and a Cobra will make 450rwhp+ and STILL WEIGH LESS. A lot of the arguing is about which car does better in terms of modifications. Look at that bolt-on e.t list for Cobras, well into the 11s@120-123mph+, then look at the bolt-on list for GTOs. Forget the whole, "but it's N/A and you're blown" argument. Like I said, that's what this platform is all about, no amount of bickering is going to change how these cars came from the factory. Mod for mod the Cobra has an upper hand, at the drag strip or anywhere else. Nitrous is kind of a universal factor, both cars LOVE the gas if you're willing to go that route.
The fastest bolt-on LS2 GTO doesn't even come within 10mph and 7 tenths of the fastest bolt-on Cobra, (and that's just with a upper pulley, exhaust, intake and tune, no headers, no gears, no rockers needed).
Once again, no need to take it personal. The GTO is just a different animal, it's a much larger more comfortable car. However, the fact that it weighs more and puts down less power stock & modded puts it at a performance disadvantage.
Also, keep in mind one of the fastest recorded bolt-on Cobras was done on the stock 17inch wheels with BFG drag radials, (broke7). Unlike the GTO we can fit 315+ width tires without modification.
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so your telling me a member of your own forum is riding my nuts... maybe he is just being a little more open minded and looking at BOTH sides... and actually TRYING to understand and comprehend what im saying, instead of just reading and retaliating ASAP..
I've OWNED both cars, and I've been a member on the LS1 forums for way longer than I've been a member here. I'm simply stating that how a car is setup makes FAR more of a difference than the motor itself. I completely disagree that a GTO is somehow a superior drag car because it has an LSX motor. These are BOTH heavy cars with an IRS, and they both have tons of examples of slow ETs for the power made. Cobras make 450-500rwhp+ so easily that often people make the power but don't even bother upgrading tires, springs, stock clutch quadrants, etc. The only GTOs running more consistently are the auto GTOs with a stall, (and that's universal for any platform).
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i dont basically call the majority of them slow for there hp... i outright said it... and ill say it again... the MAJORITY of the time... they have 450rwhp cobras that are running mid 8s in the 1/8... that my friend, is a huge joke..
I've seen PLENTY of GTOs do the same. Put a full weight car with a lot of power, tricky IRS, street tires, soft suspension, 6spd and that's the end result. We can sit here all day posting examples of poorly running GTOs and Cobras, there are PLENTY of 450rwhp+ GTOs running mid 12s and up. It would only show how a poorly setup car with a bad driver effects times, I think we both know their true capabilities.
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they built a HUGE rep for themselves.. ROLL RACING! not dig... how often do you hear someone go "dont race that cobra from a dig, its sick".. you usually dont.. you hear "dont **** with it from a roll"... and they are SICK cars from a roll.. with a FEW far and few in between sick from a dig.
Look above, if people want to setup their cars to run from a dig these cars are PERFECTLY capable of doing it!
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2k in a gto...... full bolt ons and a NICE cam only setup... on the juice... *PLENTY* fast enough more mid 10s....
The fact is 99% of GTO owners running mid 10s will have WAY more in their cars than that. I know a shitload of people with cam/bolt-on nitrous LS1s, (including myself!), $2K isn't even close to what I spent and 99.9% of the people spend. Not everyone puts $300 used hooker headers and does the labor themselves. Not everyone can tear apart their own engines and add JUST a cam with no supporting mods like valve springs & retainers.
Nice set of stainless long tube headers like kooks or similar + mid-pipe + installation = $1200
Cam, retainers, springs, flycut pistons? + install from a reputable shop = $900
Intake, Catback, Tune, Drag Wheel + Tires, Suspension, Nitrous kit = $2,000+
Fast 90/90 intake, stall, clutch, gears, etc =
Even with everything listed above mid 10s would probably be a stretch. If you look on ls1GTO.com, there are not a ton of GTOs running mid 10s and quicker. Most of the ones that are, have a turbo or aftermarket blower. GTOs don't magically escape the fact that they weigh 3800lbs because it's powered by an LSX. It takes big power to push them like it does in a Cobra or any other heavy car, and the amount of power needed to shave a couple tenths gets exponentially higher when dealing with such heavy cars already running 10s. That's why most of the fast Cobras have solid rear-axles, suspension, minor weight reduction, etc. Cobras can weigh 400lbs+ lighter than a GTO without even gutting the car. The GTO is a larger car, the Cobra is nothing but a 3200lb-3300lb Mustang with an iron block, blower and IRS. It's MUCH easier and cheaper to make them into light-weight well performing drag cars if someone is looking to turn impressive times at the drag strip, (aluminum block, SRA from a Mustang GT, front tubular suspension, etc).
GTOs haven't been around for long though, and they will continue to get faster. I think we will see more solid-rear end swaps, front tubular suspension setups, etc. 03-04 Cobras are built off an ancient platform that's been around forever, parts are a dime a dozen.
____________________________________
Ported blower, BF TB/Plenum, BF 2.76+idlers, Spec Clutch, Full length Headers
NBM 00 WS6 - Cam, Bolt-ons, Gear - Sold
MB 91 VR4 - Built motor, upgraded turbos, standalone, etc - Sold
Black 95 VR4 - bolt-ons - Sold
Blue & White 02 GSX-R 600 - Dumped & Parted.
Yeah, not having a cage really keeps me from dialing in the car. I can usually only make one pass before kicking me off. I think that on my KB setup with the race tune in (24 psi w/ 100 octane) she would've run 10.5 or quicker. With the turbo's, I haven't even tuned a race tune yet. Scary thing is, I think she'll run 9 on pump. The power is just unreal.
cobra is faster stock, if you spend 1000 on both the avg. cobra will be in the 11's for sure, where the avg. gto will barely be in the mid 12's.
I agree the zo6 is faster with less mods but, it costs a lot more to mod, so you can potentially go faster for less money in a cobra.
Straight line performance is a narrow way to say one car is better than another...I say the GTO is better because I stomped ass all over a Cobra on a road course. Of course, I also passed a Ferrari, a Lotus, a Viper, a few Vettes, a Porsche, and enough BMW's to make a prep school parking lot. GTO > all in that line of thought.
8 pages...just like all the other tired out Cobra vs GTO threads out there. You'd think it had all been argued out by now.
"VPR KLR"
lol, Right! Quality parts sure have gone down recently I guess. 
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