Are you saying a fox has to be a gutted, tubbed out race car to go fast? There are foxes on this forum that run 8s on 17inch wheels and tires in full street trim driven to and from the track. They're light to begin with, gutting them isn't necessary.
If you think fbodys are cheap to build, you should see what can be done for the money using an old Fox roller.
no im not saying that at ALL!
i absolutely hate when people say "on AVERAGE" or "the MAJORITY of the time" (meaning not always) and i even said there is always "that one"... and then they go find 3-4 they know of and say.. look at this, your wrong..
what im saying is... MOST people that build 302/347s/351s... dont build them to the entire potential AT ALL! regardless of money invested.. i know people with 10k in their 347s running low 8s@mid low-mid 80mph.. that, to me, is pitiful..
can you make them fast? HELL YES! do people usually.. no..
i know what can be done and how cheap they are... but fbodys are right there with them nowadays if you know what your doing..
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My point is it takes a lot more work to make a heads/cam/intake goat run low 11s then it does an already blown Cobra that is lighter. A Cobra is already at an advantage stock. Add simple bolt-ons and a Cobra will make 450rwhp+ and STILL WEIGH LESS. A lot of the arguing is about which car does better in terms of modifications. Look at that bolt-on e.t list for Cobras, well into the 11s@120-123mph+, then look at the bolt-on list for GTOs. Forget the whole, "but it's N/A and you're blown" argument. Like I said, that's what this platform is all about, no amount of bickering is going to change how these cars came from the factory. Mod for mod the Cobra has an upper hand, at the drag strip or anywhere else. Nitrous is kind of a universal factor, both cars LOVE the gas if you're willing to go that route.
i was talking more about any fbody... i never said anything about them being S/C from factory and lsx not.. i think its completely fair.. and after modding begins, in my eyes it doesnt really give them an advantage at all.. like i said, i have NEVER been threatened by a cobra.. i run as fast on motor as some of the fastest ported pullied cobras, and faster than pobably 95% of them..
do i have a stalled a4? yes... do i have 410s on a 26 inch slick? yes.. but thats the platform im building on... so you cant say "well your more geared for that" because if people are shooting for fast times, they should be geared towards that also..
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The fastest bolt-on LS2 GTO doesn't even come within 10mph and 7 tenths of the fastest bolt-on Cobra, (and that's just with a upper pulley, exhaust, intake and tune, no headers, no gears, no rockers needed).
it may not... but i bet the fastest bolt on ls1 does... and probably faster.. thats more what im geared towards.. could care less what gtos do honestly.. not many people race them.. this list is stock internals.. no cam no heads etc..
# RUQWIKR -------- 10.685 @ 122.91 (1.37), 01 Formula T400, ATI4600, 4.56, 3060, 03/08
# Project_SS ----- 10.866 @ 122.14 (1.45), 98 Camaro SS A4, TCI4400, 3.73, 2840, 03/07
# Magnus --------- 10.987 @ 119.31 (1.42), 97 Firebird A4, YPT4400, 4.10, 2920, 12/04
# Skelton -------- 11.088 @ 119.10 (1.44), 01 Formula A3, CN4800, 4.10, 3150, 02/09
# 1BAD98LS1 ------ 11.089 @ 120.62 (1.47), 98 Formula A4, YTP4000, 3.89, 3070, 11/07
# Hawkn01 -------- 11.256 @ 118.48 (1.52), 01 Firehawk A4, TCS4200, 3.73, 3086, 03/04
# SilentbutViolent 11.302 @ 117.84 (1.52), 98 Camaro Z28 A4, YTP4600, 3.73, 3128, 11/04
# V6 Bird -------- 11.322 @ 118.67 (1.53), 01 Formula A4, YTP4000, 3.23, 3170, 11/02
# Matt D --------- 11.421 @ 116.24 (1.47), 99 Camaro Z28 A4, YPT4400, 3.73, 3100, 11/07
# ATwelveSec02Z28 11.424 @ 119.26 (1.53), 02 Camaro Z28 M6, RAM, 4.56, 3300, 12/06
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Once again, no need to take it personal. The GTO is just a different animal, it's a much larger more comfortable car. However, the fact that it weighs more and puts down less power stock & modded puts it at a performance disadvantage.
i dont take it personal.. i dont own one.. it may be at a disadvantage.. but im not..
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I've OWNED both cars, and I've been a member on the LS1 forums for way longer than I've been a member here. I'm simply stating that how a car is setup makes FAR more of a difference than the motor itself. I completely disagree that a GTO is somehow a superior drag car because it has an LSX motor. These are BOTH heavy cars with an IRS, and they both have tons of examples of slow ETs for the power made. Cobras make 450-500rwhp+ so easily that often people make the power but don't even bother upgrading tires, springs, stock clutch quadrants, etc. The only GTOs running more consistently are the auto GTOs with a stall, (and that's universal for any platform).
the cobra didnt come with an auto.. so i dont see it that way... if it came with an auto, that would be different.. if its that.. you could go back to the ghey argument of "what if the gto had a supercharger".... but it didnt..
[quote]
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I've seen PLENTY of GTOs do the same. Put a full weight car with a lot of power, tricky IRS, street tires, soft suspension, 6spd and that's the end result. We can sit here all day posting examples of poorly running GTOs and Cobras, there are PLENTY of 450rwhp+ GTOs running mid 12s and up. It would only show how a poorly setup car with a bad driver effects times, I think we both know their true capabilities.
i believe there are more "built" cobras running sad times than the LSX bunch of any make/model..
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Look above, if people want to setup their cars to run from a dig these cars are PERFECTLY capable of doing it!
if they are at the track... thats what matters.. i have bone stock suspension... people would consider that not setup for drag racing.. i cut 1.5s fish tailing..
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The fact is 99% of GTO owners running mid 10s will have WAY more in their cars than that. I know a shitload of people with cam/bolt-on nitrous LS1s, (including myself!), $2K isn't even close to what I spent and 99.9% of the people spend. Not everyone puts $300 used hooker headers and does the labor themselves. Not everyone can tear apart their own engines and add JUST a cam with no supporting mods like valve springs & retainers.
like i said, wasnt really concentrating on gtos..
not saying you dont know anyhing.. but i took my time when modding and knew exactly what i wanted and what would run good.. it worked, and i havnt spent much money at all.. you could call it dirt cheap..
i got a brand new set of pacesetters... its not my fault if people want to spend 1k on headers..
i added springs lifters... i have an MS4.. didnt have much of a choice.. also not my fault if someone has to pay for their work..
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Nice set of stainless long tube headers like kooks or similar + mid-pipe + installation = $1200
Cam, retainers, springs, flycut pistons? + install from a reputable shop = $900
Intake, Catback, Tune, Drag Wheel + Tires, Suspension, Nitrous kit = $2,000+
Fast 90/90 intake, stall, clutch, gears, etc =
but that is all options.. you dont HAVE to pay that.. you can go just as fast,faster for MUCH MUCH less money...
if you want to do that why not just do this..
wheels/tires... 2k... you gotta get bogarts...
headers=700 gotta have stainless coated
intake ported fast 92/92 cause a fast 90/90 wont cut it
gotta have a catback like magnaflow or borla cause race cars run better with those than with a cutout or xpipe dumped before axle
suspension= might as well go 4link for about 6k, you might need it one day..
i mean come man.. not being an ass.. but those are retarded prices.. anyone that just wants to go fast is NOT going to pay that much for most of that..
if you can build it to go fast/faster for half or 1/3 the money (another perk to these cars as mentioned) why wouldnt you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokin04
Yeah, not having a cage really keeps me from dialing in the car. I can usually only make one pass before kicking me off. I think that on my KB setup with the race tune in (24 psi w/ 100 octane) she would've run 10.5 or quicker. With the turbo's, I haven't even tuned a race tune yet. Scary thing is, I think she'll run 9 on pump. The power is just unreal.
that sucks you cant get a solid night of running in.. hope you do sonner than later.
I would say that it all depends on how well their car's were modded and driven. Most of the time though I see the Termi having the edge, chip and pulley are two simple mods that can be bought for less than $400 and be made a lot faster. With just a flowmaster (or your preference) and X-pipe, ive seen them get over 15 WHP, pretty sure that the GTO will not get this kind of power with these two mods (or with an H-pipe). Both car's are good (love the GTO interior soo much ), depends on what your taste is. Also is true what Lemons said, I have seen a lot of Termi car's getting horrible times (even stock), but really the reason why they stand out (IMO) is because lots of Termi's were made (and they have a big name). A lot of people have come and asked me how bad ass my S/C Cobra is , so obviously when a Termi runs shitty (or even a NE Cobra since the avg ppl are clueless), it gets the word out quick.
____________________________________
2001 True Blue Cobra
-Catted Mac X-pipe, Flowmaster's 1 Chamber Race Mufflers, K&N FIPK2 Intake, 03/04 Cobra Clutch, MGW Short Shifter, SCT XCAL 2 Tuning-, Build 3650 Tranny
2003 Nissan Maxima GLE Majestic Blue Pearl
-K&N Air Filter, Air Freshner -
I would say that it all depends on how well their car's were modded and driven. Most of the time though I see the Termi having the edge, chip and pulley are two simple mods that can be bought for less than $400 and be made a lot faster. With just a flowmaster (or your preference) and X-pipe, ive seen them get over 15 WHP, pretty sure that the GTO will not get this kind of power with these two mods (or with an H-pipe). Both car's are good (love the GTO interior soo much ), depends on what your taste is. Also is true what Lemons said, I have seen a lot of Termi car's getting horrible times (even stock), but really the reason why they stand out (IMO) is because lots of Termi's were made (and they have a big name). A lot of people have come and asked me how bad ass my S/C Cobra is , so obviously when a Termi runs shitty (or even a NE Cobra since the avg ppl are clueless), it gets the word out quick.
an xpipe and exhaust will net you over 15rwhp on any LSX vehicle...
i was talking more about any fbody... i never said anything about them being S/C from factory and lsx not.. i think its completely fair.. and after modding begins, in my eyes it doesnt really give them an advantage at all.. like i said, i have NEVER been threatened by a cobra.. i run as fast on motor as some of the fastest ported pullied cobras, and faster than pobably 95% of them..
What do you run? The fastest ported & pullied Cobras run deep into the 10s.
Quote:
do i have a stalled a4? yes... do i have 410s on a 26 inch slick? yes.. but thats the platform im building on... so you cant say "well your more geared for that" because if people are shooting for fast times, they should be geared towards that also..
and those who are geared towards that DO run fast times.
it may not... but i bet the fastest bolt on ls1 does... and probably faster.. thats more what im geared towards.. could care less what gtos do honestly.. not many people race them.. this list is stock internals.. no cam no heads etc..
# RUQWIKR -------- 10.685 @ 122.91 (1.37), 01 Formula T400, ATI4600, 4.56, 3060, 03/08
# Project_SS ----- 10.866 @ 122.14 (1.45), 98 Camaro SS A4, TCI4400, 3.73, 2840, 03/07
# Magnus --------- 10.987 @ 119.31 (1.42), 97 Firebird A4, YPT4400, 4.10, 2920, 12/04
# Skelton -------- 11.088 @ 119.10 (1.44), 01 Formula A3, CN4800, 4.10, 3150, 02/09
# 1BAD98LS1 ------ 11.089 @ 120.62 (1.47), 98 Formula A4, YTP4000, 3.89, 3070, 11/07
# Hawkn01 -------- 11.256 @ 118.48 (1.52), 01 Firehawk A4, TCS4200, 3.73, 3086, 03/04
# SilentbutViolent 11.302 @ 117.84 (1.52), 98 Camaro Z28 A4, YTP4600, 3.73, 3128, 11/04
# V6 Bird -------- 11.322 @ 118.67 (1.53), 01 Formula A4, YTP4000, 3.23, 3170, 11/02
# Matt D --------- 11.421 @ 116.24 (1.47), 99 Camaro Z28 A4, YPT4400, 3.73, 3100, 11/07
# ATwelveSec02Z28 11.424 @ 119.26 (1.53), 02 Camaro Z28 M6, RAM, 4.56, 3300, 12/06
I've seen that list! Those are super light-weight cars. I was actually referring to bolt-on cars, (intake, exhaust, etc). There are light-weight pullied Cobras running deep into the 10s as well. Although not as light as some of those, 2800lb race-weights with a driver is insane.
Quote:
i dont take it personal.. i dont own one.. it may be at a disadvantage.. but im not..
Not taking it personal. This thread is about GTOs and Cobras, you seem to have taken it a little personal as you've somehow associated this discussion with your own car and fbodys.
Quote:
the cobra didnt come with an auto.. so i dont see it that way... if it came with an auto, that would be different.. if its that.. you could go back to the ghey argument of "what if the gto had a supercharger".... but it didnt..
True, I was just pointing what an auto does for ANY platform. I'm personally not a fan of automatic cars anyways. There are some guys on here that are though, and it does do wonders for ETs.
Quote:
i believe there are more "built" cobras running sad times than the LSX bunch of any make/model..
I don't know, I've seen some very sad times from 6spd full weight fbodies and GTOs. Either car can get effected by a lot of power, street tires and a bad driver.
Quote:
if they are at the track... thats what matters.. i have bone stock suspension... people would consider that not setup for drag racing.. i cut 1.5s fish tailing..
Yup, plenty of stock suspension Cobras that cut those kind of short times going sideways. All it takes is a sticky tire and a good driver.
not saying you dont know anyhing.. but i took my time when modding and knew exactly what i wanted and what would run good.. it worked, and i havnt spent much money at all.. you could call it dirt cheap..
i got a brand new set of pacesetters... its not my fault if people want to spend 1k on headers..
i added springs lifters... i have an MS4.. didnt have much of a choice.. also not my fault if someone has to pay for their work..
Never said it was your fault, (lol) I was simply pointing out how 99% of LSX owners build their cars. I mean the prices you listed are beyond a stretch, $300 for a cam swap..
Quote:
but that is all options.. you dont HAVE to pay that.. you can go just as fast,faster for MUCH MUCH less money...
if you want to do that why not just do this..
wheels/tires... 2k... you gotta get bogarts...
headers=700 gotta have stainless coated
intake ported fast 92/92 cause a fast 90/90 wont cut it
gotta have a catback like magnaflow or borla cause race cars run better with those than with a cutout or xpipe dumped before axle
suspension= might as well go 4link for about 6k, you might need it one day..
Those aren't all options, look at my post more carefully, I was still VERY conservative
That's assuming you can get drag wheels + slicks and skinnys for under $1,000. Springs, a cheap catback, lid/intake, dyno tune and nitrous kit for another $1,000.
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i mean come man.. not being an ass.. but those are retarded prices.. anyone that just wants to go fast is NOT going to pay that much for most of that..
Like I said, around here H/C bolt-on LS1s are a dime a dozen. I owned one, a lot of my buddies owned one, I'm not just guessing here. I was talking about GTOs anyways, if I was talking fbodys I would have brought up the cost of replacing broken 10 bolts and/or upgrading to a 12 bolt.
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if you can build it to go fast/faster for half or 1/3 the money (another perk to these cars as mentioned) why wouldnt you?
Not a fan of buying shit parts, (I want stainless headers, I want a catback that sounds good) and I don't have the resources to tear down my motor in my garage or do 6 hours worth of labor to swap my headers, (pain in the ass for fbodies, once helped a buddy)
____________________________________
Ported blower, BF TB/Plenum, BF 2.76+idlers, Spec Clutch, Full length Headers
NBM 00 WS6 - Cam, Bolt-ons, Gear - Sold
MB 91 VR4 - Built motor, upgraded turbos, standalone, etc - Sold
Black 95 VR4 - bolt-ons - Sold
Blue & White 02 GSX-R 600 - Dumped & Parted.
Your friend needs the driver mod..A cammed/bolton LS2 GTO would squash a stock Cobra..Even a upper/tuned Cobra would have it's hands full....I've personally seen cammed/bolton GTO's pull bottom 12's..
im sure it also depends on how aggressive the cam is too, that can make a nice difference
____________________________________
2003 Azure Mach 1
C&L intake with 85mm MAF
Roys intake spacer
Bassani headers
Bassani catted x
Borla cat-back
H&R springs
Steeda upper and lower control arms
Hurst short throw
FR 4.10's
FR al drive shaft
Black 18" FR500's
tuned by Excessive, Manassass VA
again.. not faster than the fastest.. faster than most..
Quote:
I've seen that list! Those are super light-weight cars. I was actually referring to bolt-on cars, (intake, exhaust, etc). There are light-weight pullied Cobras running deep into the 10s as well. Although not as light as some of those, 2800lb race-weights with a driver is insane.
yes the race weights are insane... wish i was there...
but you do have to think... even without the weight difference... they would still be dead close... and thats NA... i dont have a problem with cobras having blowers AT ALL... but what im pointing out is the power difference... bolt on cobras put down what? 425+.... a bolt on ls1 puts down 330-340 tops..
Quote:
Not taking it personal. This thread is about GTOs and Cobras, you seem to have taken it a little personal as you've somehow associated this discussion with your own car and fbodys.
honestly, dont know enough about GTO or their times... mostly because there is not enough who drag race.. to have an intelligent debate/conversation about it.. so i have to resort to ls1s in general.. trust me, its not personal.. nothing on the net is to me..
i use my own car because it is a pretty good running H/C car.. better than saying well my friends buddies uncle has a car that supposedly has these mods i think and he ran this time...
Quote:
True, I was just pointing what an auto does for ANY platform. I'm personally not a fan of automatic cars anyways. There are some guys on here that are though, and it does do wonders for ETs.
i love the a4s! and yes it does MAJOR woners for ets with some applications (mostly depending on how shitty driver is lol)
Quote:
Yup, plenty of stock suspension Cobras that cut those kind of short times going sideways. All it takes is a sticky tire and a good driver.
and the ones doing this are on stock blower? (that wasnt an ass question, i really am curious..)
Quote:
Well that's what this thread is about.
as stated above, i have no choice.. if you wanna talk i gotta include all ls1s or i dont have much to say...
Quote:
Never said it was your fault, (lol) I was simply pointing out how 99% of LSX owners build their cars. I mean the prices you listed are beyond a stretch, $300 for a cam swap..
i wouldnt say 99%... most people do budget builds... not always the cheapest of the cheap... but nowhere near high quality.. usually somewhere in the middle, towards the bottom..
i didnt say 300 for a cam swap..
That's assuming you can get drag wheels + slicks and skinnys for under $1,000. Springs, a cheap catback, lid/intake, dyno tune and nitrous kit for another $1,000.
i disagree there...
intake-275$
i went with new pacesetter LTs xpipe and expensive mufflers... it all cost 650$ exactly
suspension... im still on stock suspension... about to pick up a set of bags for 40$
nitrous kit.. i have bought two kits both each under 400$... one was a VERY nice kit, one is decent..
i bought my drag lites with tires in front and rear (like 400 miles on them) for 750$
Quote:
Like I said, around here H/C bolt-on LS1s are a dime a dozen. I owned one, a lot of my buddies owned one, I'm not just guessing here. I was talking about GTOs anyways, if I was talking fbodys I would have brought up the cost of replacing broken 10 bolts and/or upgrading to a 12 bolt.
im not guessing either.. i built and own my car.. along with helping and getting help from many buddies.. i know prices... VERY good (it matters to me, im not loaded).. and i do things for as cheap as possible with still buying a quality product.. if a 10 bolt brakes (mine and MANY friends spraying 200 shots have been) get another one..
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Not a fan of buying shit parts, (I want stainless headers, I want a catback that sounds good) and I don't have the resources to tear down my motor in my garage or do 6 hours worth of labor to swap my headers, (pain in the ass for fbodies, once helped a buddy)
i buy nowhere near shit parts.. my exhaust sounds VERY VERY good.. ask around on tech.. i have a ported FAST intake.. i have a Vig. converter.. ms4 cam... PRCls6 heads.. dual springs.. hardened push rods... etc.. i wouldnt call any of that "shit" parts.. not even close..
Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedingfordblu
im sure it also depends on how aggressive the cam is too, that can make a nice difference
yes the race weights are insane... wish i was there...
but you do have to think... even without the weight difference... they would still be dead close... and thats NA... i dont have a problem with cobras having blowers AT ALL... but what im pointing out is the power difference... bolt on cobras put down what? 425+.... a bolt on ls1 puts down 330-340 tops.. .
Hmm, I disagree with that, Most well driven full bolt-on LS1 fbodys are in the 12s@113-115mph. Most full bolt-on Cobras are in the 11s @ 117-123mph. Big difference. I've seen that and the cam only list, it is VERY impressive, but most of it is due to the race-weight. It reminds of the guy running mid-low 11s in his bolt-on N/A Mach1! He gutted his car down and ran very respectable times.
Quote:
honestly, dont know enough about GTO or their times... mostly because there is not enough who drag race.. to have an intelligent debate/conversation about it.. so i have to resort to ls1s in general.. trust me, its not personal.. nothing on the net is to me..
Cool man, then you won't mind me saying I don't think you seem to know much about Cobras and what they can accomplish at the dragstrip, (except for very poor running examples).
Most of the times you're showing me of LS1 fbodys I'm aware of! I fully give credit to what fbodys can accomplish, I'm only trying to open your eyes to what Cobras can accomplish with a sticky tire & a good driver as well.
Quote:
i use my own car because it is a pretty good running H/C car.. better than saying well my friends buddies uncle has a car that supposedly has these mods i think and he ran this time...
Your car runs well, but has nothing to do with GTOs! Read the thread title.
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i love the a4s! and yes it does MAJOR woners for ets with some applications (mostly depending on how shitty driver is lol)
I agree it can make a huge difference, look at that list of bolt-on LS1s, they are all automatics!
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and the ones doing this are on stock blower? (that wasnt an ass question, i really am curious..)
Yes, the video I posted earlier of the ported eaton with a 60 shot, he's also run 10.80s without the nitrous. Stock headers, stock blower, stock IRS, stock 6spd, full weight car, etc..
i didnt add misc. things like oil and stuff.. so you can add another 60 bucks for misc. things...
i disagree there...
intake-275$
i went with new pacesetter LTs xpipe and expensive mufflers... it all cost 650$ exactly
suspension... im still on stock suspension... about to pick up a set of bags for 40$
nitrous kit.. i have bought two kits both each under 400$... one was a VERY nice kit, one is decent..
i bought my drag lites with tires in front and rear (like 400 miles on them) for 750$
im not guessing either.. i built and own my car.. along with helping and getting help from many buddies.. i know prices... VERY good (it matters to me, im not loaded).. and i do things for as cheap as possible with still buying a quality product.. if a 10 bolt brakes (mine and MANY friends spraying 200 shots have been) get another one..
You seem to have gotten some excellent deals on used parts. I never figured in misc parts like oil, (lol). I don't know how you found a fast intake for $275, they're easily $700+ new, (FAST INTAKE MANIFOLD LSx 90mm (Modified) - FAST-Intake1 by: FAST - C6), or decent complete nitrous kits for $400.
It is always a plus to be able to do your own work. I quoted prices for what it would take to buy new parts and have them installed. Anyways, the whole debate started because I said compared to doing a pulley swap or taking off the blower to have ported, doing heads/cam/intake/headers is a lot more work and more expensive.
= $1,350 on a high average. These are more or less new parts. What kind of power level? Around 450 RWHP and around 470 RWTQ on AVERAGE. Just thought I'd point this out.
SB- The pullied Cobra list is old. Musclefan21 broke one of the records with his 11.34 @ 121.93 1.64 60ft in a full weight, pullied onyl cobra.
= $1,350 on a high average. These are more or less new parts. What kind of power level? Around 450 RWHP and around 470 RWTQ on AVERAGE. Just thought I'd point this out.
SB- The pullied Cobra list is old. Musclefan21 broke one of the records with his 11.34 @ 121.93 1.64 60ft in a full weight, pullied onyl cobra.
There are a lot of possibilities, but I think the best bang for your buch solution was Stiegemeiers 500rwhp package..
Stiegemeier Ported Blower, Throttle Body and Plenum 57 RWHP-$695.00
2.76 BilletFlow Upper Pulley + idler + belt - $350
CAI - $150
NGK TR6 spark plugs $30
Tune - $350
Those are all new parts BTW.
500rwhp+ with the stock catback!
I would race you guys with that 500hp combo with a bolt on ls1..... Because it looks like you guys plan to make 500hp on street tires and thats not going to win races
I'm just messing around i thought i'd point out that you guys aren't adding in the price of tires
I would race you guys with that 500hp combo with a bolt on ls1..... Because it looks like you guys plan to make 500hp on street tires and thats not going to win races
I'm just messing around i thought i'd point out that you guys aren't adding in the price of tires
LOL That is true, tires play a big role if you want to get out of the hole . Unless you can make $70 Pep Boy Tires do wonders
I've seen that list! Those are super light-weight cars. I was actually referring to bolt-on cars, (intake, exhaust, etc). There are light-weight pullied Cobras running deep into the 10s as well. Although not as light as some of those, 2800lb race-weights with a driver is insane.
That's because GM made it easy to part with most of the car... it was crap from the factory and not sorely missed once you throw it in the trash.
I would race you guys with that 500hp combo with a bolt on ls1..... Because it looks like you guys plan to make 500hp on street tires and thats not going to win races
I'm just messing around i thought i'd point out that you guys aren't adding in the price of tires
Quote:
Originally Posted by S8ER01Z
That's because GM made it easy to part with most of the car... it was crap from the factory and not sorely missed once you throw it in the trash.
Quote:
Originally Posted by olly
EASON of mists and mellow fruitfulness,
Close bosom-friend of the maturing sun:
Conspiring with him how to load and bless
With fruit the vines that round the thatch-eves run;
To bend with apples the mossed cottage-trees,
And fill all fruit with ripeness to the core;
To swell the gourd, and plump the hazel shells
With a sweet kernel; to set budding more,
And still more, later flowers for the bees,
Until they think warm days will never cease,
For Summer has o'er-brimmed their clammy cells.
Who hath not seen thee oft amid thy store?
Sometimes whoever seeks abroad may find
Thee sitting careless on a granary floor,
Thy hair soft-lipped by the winnowing wind;
Or on a half-reaped furrow sound asleep,
Drowsed with the fume of poppies, while thy hook
Spares the next swath and all its twinèd flowers:
And sometimes like a gleaner thou dost keep
Steady thy laden head across a brook;
Or by a cider-press, with patient look,
Thou watchest the last oozings hours by hours.
Where are the songs of Spring? Ay, where are they?
Think not of them, thou hast thy music too,--
While barrèd clouds bloom the soft-dying day,
And touch the stubble-plains with rosy hue;
Then in a wailful choir the small gnats mourn
Among the river sallows borne aloft
Or sinking as the light wind lives or dies;
And full-grown lambs loud bleat from hilly bourn;
Hedge-crickets sing; and now with treble soft
The red-breast whistles from a garden-croft;
And gathering swallows twitter in the skies
Hmm, I disagree with that, Most well driven full bolt-on LS1 fbodys are in the 12s@113-115mph. Most full bolt-on Cobras are in the 11s @ 117-123mph. Big difference. I've seen that and the cam only list, it is VERY impressive, but most of it is due to the race-weight. It reminds of the guy running mid-low 11s in his bolt-on N/A Mach1! He gutted his car down and ran very respectable times.
i will say *most bolt on fbodys are in the 12s... but i disagree 100X's that most bolt on cobras are in the 11s... because of shitty drivers, no tires... whatever the case may be... i see too many in the 12s/13s with mods..
there are plenty of cars around though (that when set up properly) are running low-mid 7s (1/8) with a stall, gears, tires, intake... stock manifolds stock internals with 3300+ race weight..
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Cool man, then you won't mind me saying I don't think you seem to know much about Cobras and what they can accomplish at the dragstrip, (except for very poor running examples).
no i dont know what the "faster" cobras can run at the track.. but i do know that the majority of the ones on here that i see... and ALL the ones i have seen in person.. run HORRIBLE times for their power levels/mods.. i have never seen one run faster than a 8 at the track.... and cant count how many "why is my car so slow" threads on here...
i can honestly say that i have a very slim idea of what a well built cobra/driven cobra can do at the track.. i do know what the fastest ones run with X mods... but not the majority of just the fast ones..
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Most of the times you're showing me of LS1 fbodys I'm aware of! I fully give credit to what fbodys can accomplish, I'm only trying to open your eyes to what Cobras can accomplish with a sticky tire & a good driver as well.
i believe/know that they can be pretty stout when properly setup... but like i am saying (trying to point out).. the majority are slow as balls for what they have.. wether it be tire/driver/car/etc.. i dont know..
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Your car runs well, but has nothing to do with GTOs! Read the thread title.
mmmmmm.. yes and know.. i could make a GTO go just as fast, probably faster.. i wouldnt mind an ls2... as long as its an a4..
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I agree it can make a huge difference, look at that list of bolt-on LS1s, they are all automatics!
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Yes, the video I posted earlier of the ported eaton with a 60 shot, he's also run 10.80s without the nitrous. Stock headers, stock blower, stock IRS, stock 6spd, full weight car, etc..
thanks for that...
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You seem to have gotten some excellent deals on used parts. I never figured in misc parts like oil, (lol). I don't know how you found a fast intake for $275, they're easily $700+ new, (FAST INTAKE MANIFOLD LSx 90mm (Modified) - FAST-Intake1 by: FAST - C6), or decent complete nitrous kits for $400.
i got good deals on the parts i did buy used... a lot are brand new though..
i was quoting a price for an ls6... i paid 900$ for my ported FAST 90/90..
bought a used plate kit for 350ish (its been a while cant remember exactly).. this time i bought a fogger kit.. but has some nice extras... think it was like 275...
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It is always a plus to be able to do your own work. I quoted prices for what it would take to buy new parts and have them installed. Anyways, the whole debate started because I said compared to doing a pulley swap or taking off the blower to have ported, doing heads/cam/intake/headers is a lot more work and more expensive.
not more work to me.. i wouldnt know where to start on the cobra, i could do a H/C swap in a day..
thanks for being open minded and actually teaching me some stuff while still listening to my points/reasoning.. it is nice to have an intelligent conversation with someone...
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Originally Posted by GrabberGT
Well, if we are comparing bang for buck, let's break it down.
03 Cobra:
Cat-back 350
Intake- 150
Midpipe-150
Pulley-350
Tune-350
= $1,350 on a high average. These are more or less new parts. What kind of power level? Around 450 RWHP and around 470 RWTQ on AVERAGE. Just thought I'd point this out.
SB- The pullied Cobra list is old. Musclefan21 broke one of the records with his 11.34 @ 121.93 1.64 60ft in a full weight, pullied onyl cobra.
so 1400.. you can have a cam only setup in an ls1.. dyno numbers dont matter..
and like i have said... depends on what you consider "bang for your buck"... if you consider just dyno numbers bang for your buck.. cobra wins..
if you consider drag times bang for your buck.. the ls1 wins a VAST MAJORITY of the time.. id say 8/10 times..
Quote:
Originally Posted by olly
EASON of mists and mellow fruitfulness,
Close bosom-friend of the maturing sun:
Conspiring with him how to load and bless
With fruit the vines that round the thatch-eves run;
To bend with apples the mossed cottage-trees,
And fill all fruit with ripeness to the core;
To swell the gourd, and plump the hazel shells
With a sweet kernel; to set budding more,
And still more, later flowers for the bees,
Until they think warm days will never cease,
For Summer has o'er-brimmed their clammy cells.
Who hath not seen thee oft amid thy store?
Sometimes whoever seeks abroad may find
Thee sitting careless on a granary floor,
Thy hair soft-lipped by the winnowing wind;
Or on a half-reaped furrow sound asleep,
Drowsed with the fume of poppies, while thy hook
Spares the next swath and all its twinèd flowers:
And sometimes like a gleaner thou dost keep
Steady thy laden head across a brook;
Or by a cider-press, with patient look,
Thou watchest the last oozings hours by hours.
Where are the songs of Spring? Ay, where are they?
Think not of them, thou hast thy music too,--
While barrèd clouds bloom the soft-dying day,
And touch the stubble-plains with rosy hue;
Then in a wailful choir the small gnats mourn
Among the river sallows borne aloft
Or sinking as the light wind lives or dies;
And full-grown lambs loud bleat from hilly bourn;
Hedge-crickets sing; and now with treble soft
The red-breast whistles from a garden-croft;
And gathering swallows twitter in the skies
i will say *most bolt on fbodys are in the 12s... but i disagree 100X's that most bolt on cobras are in the 11s... because of shitty drivers, no tires... whatever the case may be... i see too many in the 12s/13s with mods..
I said most well driven bolt-on fbodys are in the 12s, and pullied Cobras are in the 11s. You must have seen a lot of bad drivers, because around here 2 out of 3 pullied Cobras will run an 11 at a track meet. Some even on street tires.
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no i dont know what the "faster" cobras can run at the track.. but i do know that the majority of the ones on here that i see... and ALL the ones i have seen in person.. run HORRIBLE times for their power levels/mods.. i have never seen one run faster than a 8 at the track.... and cant count how many "why is my car so slow" threads on here...
Around here I have seen horrible times from fbodys, cobras, vettes, GTOs, etc..It's all in the driver and tire. I've even seen h/c LS1 fbodys that could barely break 12s. I've seen C5 Z06s that run 13s, C6Z06s that can't break mid 12s, etc.
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i can honestly say that i have a very slim idea of what a well built cobra/driven cobra can do at the track.. i do know what the fastest ones run with X mods... but not the majority of just the fast ones..
The couple of examples I posted in this thread are far from built. Most of them were with bolt-ons on the stockor ported blower, and the 10.4x KB car is a full weight car that doesn't even have headers with a stock suspension/IRS/6spd. I was trying to give you an idea of what a Cobra with relatively simple mods can do.
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i believe/know that they can be pretty stout when properly setup... but like i am saying (trying to point out).. the majority are slow as balls for what they have.. wether it be tire/driver/car/etc.. i dont know..
Once again, I disagree. In bolt-on form these cars don't need much to be setup other than a sticky tire and a good driver. When I see a bunch of fbodys run horrible times I know enough about them to not believe the majority run those kinda times.
Anyways, coming from personally owning both platforms that's my opinion.
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mmmmmm.. yes and know.. i could make a GTO go just as fast, probably faster.. i wouldnt mind an ls2... as long as its an a4..
On average H/C/I LS1 fbodys outrun GTOs by a pretty good amount. The fastest recorded H/C/I LS2 GTO runs high 10s, and the next fastest one runs mid 11s, (both automatics). What does your car weigh again? You do know GTOs weigh 3800lbs.
Top NA LS2 ET's - Modified - Engine Work (i.e. Head, Cam, etc):
thanks for being open minded and actually teaching me some stuff while still listening to my points/reasoning.. it is nice to have an intelligent conversation with someone...
You guys just keep changing your arguments around trying to make sense. Just let it go already.
Lemons if you hang out here and "all you see" are my car is slow threads you're just reading the shit you like.
You put up a list of F-bodys that are fast but theyre godddamn gutted. Im sorry but 2800-3000lbs is a gutted race car. That only runs 10.60's. Which is fast but not for stripped out drag car thats geared all to hell. Hell put 4.56's in a stock 03/04 and knock 700-1000lbs out of it.
You throw that up there saying "these are bolt-on only or cam only or whatever only" but leave out the fact they have rediculous gears and weigh nothing.
Why do you think the owners of those cars went through the trouble and basically f'd up good cars instead of just adding more power?
Thats what you cant seem or dont want to grasp. Yes those F-bodys have less power. Yes they run with or better than alot of modded Cobras. But they weigh goddamn 700-1000lbs less!!!!!!!!!!!
Come on dude. You cant be that brand loyal. The cobra is a badass machine and you know it. From one car guy to another and with all respect.
And yalls prices for mods are stupid. Youre either buying used or shitty parts. And you arent doing it "right". You can throw some crap on a car and make it fast but how long will it last?
Ive had a couple buddies with LS1's and Cobras that blew their shit up because they saw some moron on the net that" had the same setup and hes running fine". Yeah right now he is. By that I mean junk parts. ie.. $400 N2O kits and shit.
If you actually put a used up $400 N2O kit on your car you should be shot.
I totaly respect the L motors and F-bodys. They are some fast damn cars and it doesnt take alot to make them 11-12 second cars. JUST LIKE THE COBRA.
Hell I got beat by my friends LS1 when I was at 440rwhp and he was on a 100-125 shot(so he said). I got pulled 2-3 cars on the highway. 2 weeks later he blew his engine. He was pumping Nitrous threw the MAF with no tune. Because he saw some guys on the net doing it.
____________________________________ Michael 2003 Satin Silver Cobra #46 Custom Tuned by ATS
Boss330 Racing Shortblock
Stage III Steig w/2.93/4lb.
"Ive seen alot of people that thought they were cool... Then again lord Ive seen alot of fools"
You guys just keep changing your arguments around trying to make sense. Just let it go already.
no, we are just talking a variety of different things.. i think me and him both were enjoying it.. i was learning...
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You put up a list of F-bodys that are fast but theyre godddamn gutted. Im sorry but 2800-3000lbs is a gutted race car. That only runs 10.60's. Which is fast but not for stripped out drag car thats geared all to hell. Hell put 4.56's in a stock 03/04 and knock 700-1000lbs out of it.
the guys that are serious about it do that.. i cant do anything about it..
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You throw that up there saying "these are bolt-on only or cam only or whatever only" but leave out the fact they have rediculous gears and weigh nothing.
again... cant do anything about that.. and a 3k pound ls1 can look damn near factory depending on how much you care about what it will look like... i saw one the other day liter than me that looked stock..
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Why do you think the owners of those cars went through the trouble and basically f'd up good cars instead of just adding more power?
ummmm because they are dealing with N/A motors... not something you can turn up the boost on.. would you like me to show you the times of the people that "just added more power".. they are far faster than what i have been posting up...
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Thats what you cant seem or dont want to grasp. Yes those F-bodys have less power. Yes they run with or better than alot of modded Cobras. But they weigh goddamn 700-1000lbs less!!!!!!!!!!!
again, that doesnt mean anything to me.. i wouldnt be bitching if you posted up a cobra with weight reduction.. and im not bitching that a cobra can use a blower from the factory... the weight is there to be taken out.. why not use it to an advantage?
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Come on dude. You cant be that brand loyal. The cobra is a badass machine and you know it. From one car guy to another and with all respect.
yes it is.... but most do not perform for what i consider impressive... usually far under that..
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And yalls prices for mods are stupid. Youre either buying used or shitty parts. And you arent doing it "right". You can throw some crap on a car and make it fast but how long will it last?
did you miss the part where i said it was DIRT cheap to mod an ls1? some of my parts are brand new, some used... my entire setup has been done "right".. i have 15k HARD miles on my setup.. and quite a few track visits...
has been an awesome DD with ZERO problems for 1 1/2 years..
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Ive had a couple buddies with LS1's and Cobras that blew their shit up because they saw some moron on the net that" had the same setup and hes running fine". Yeah right now he is. By that I mean junk parts. ie.. $400 N2O kits and shit.
just because your buddies are ****ing morons, doesnt mean i am... my shit is set up correctly.. i havnt one time called your car a POS or anything close to it... you can come look at my car and tell me how "shitty" my brand new heads are or how my converter locks up at 40mph cuts 1.5s N/A and flashes to 4400rpms or my exhaust that sounds like sex or my brand new pushrods and springs that are supporting a .650 lift cam..
If you actually put a used up $400 N2O kit on your car you should be shot.
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Hell I got beat by my friends LS1 when I was at 440rwhp and he was on a 100-125 shot(so he said). I got pulled 2-3 cars on the highway. 2 weeks later he blew his engine. He was pumping Nitrous threw the MAF with no tune. Because he saw some guys on the net doing it.
again.. just because your friends with ls1s are dip shits... doesnt mean i am.. i have beat MANY cars and my car hasnt blown up for 15k miles..
As I said earlier. Fullbolt-ON/tune GTO and a stock Cobra would make for a good run. Drivers race infact. A pullied cobra would absolutely walk away from a GTO.
Good run, but with full boltons the GTO most likely take the stock Cobra, assuming full weight, depending on where you draw the line as far as the boltons go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeason1010
No man the Cobra will kill it dude you should be door to door with a C5 ZO I mean I don't know if you guys are driving your cars hard when you race or not but buddies of mine shift with the rath of god man seriously it's a T56 tranny you can beat on it guys you should destroy this GTSLOW
Door to door with a C5Z with a stock 03 cobra???? Yo, share the drugs with the rest of us :-) maybe a stock C5 with 3.23 gears ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by twhitey
a guy in my neighborhood has a 06 gto w a cam, lt, intake and tune When I was stock I would run even or pull a little with my upper only and tune I would put 4 cars on him at anytime when he thought he had a chance, He want to run my ported upper/lower set up but I think it will be a waste of time.
must have been a factory cam LOL j/k but seriously any decent aftermarket cam should have given him enough to move out on you. maybe he needs a driver mod? lol wouldn't be the first gto owner to need one of those
just throwing this out there but i good friend of mine had a 2000 SS that he just sold. the car went real well. went 11.30 @ 120. it was originaly a 6 speed car with all the options. when he was done with it the car had no a/c, no abs, no front or rear bumper supports, no back seat, cloth interior, a th400 automatic, 4400 ptc stall, custom ground cam, 125 wet shot, 28" m&h radials, all your bolt ons lid, bellows, ported t/b headers and a cut out with an ls6 intake. the point of this story is that he went 3 tenths of a second faster than me at the track last year in my bolt on pullied cobra which was full weight on 17's with a mt et street radial. he sold the car because he took all the fun out of it. in my opinion for a street car with minor weight reduction is fine but theres a line between a fun street car and basicly a race car you drive on the street.
____________________________________
pullied, piped. Tuned by Dez Racing www.DezRacing.com
), depends on what your taste is. Also is true what Lemons said, I have seen a lot of Termi car's getting horrible times (even stock), but really the reason why they stand out (IMO) is because lots of Termi's were made (and they have a big name). A lot of people have come and asked me how bad ass my S/C Cobra is 
, so obviously when a Termi runs shitty (or even a NE Cobra since the avg ppl are clueless), it gets the word out quick.
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