I'm comparing them because you're saying an A4 H/C LS1 should make 420-430 and I disagree. I made 430 through and M6. The reason I mentioned the 12 bolt and nitrous tune was because yes, they eat HP but you're right, not as much as a stalled auto. Thats kinda what I was trying to say.
The majority of h/c ls1's run a LS6 intake, NOT a fast 90/90, so when you say your friends SS made 424 through a stalled auto, its not really comparing apples to apples.
My setup probably would've made 440 on a motor tune, through the 10 bolt, but I had a pretty aggressive cam. 450 on motor isnt all that common on a simple h/c setup. In fact, most people are pretty happy when they hit 440.
In actuality, it all comes down to what the "I" in H/C/I is actually interpreted as. We don't know if he has a FAST intake or an LS6 intake. But, if infact he does have a FAST intake, 405rwhp with H/C is a weak setup. 405rwhp with just H/C and a LS6 intake is common. This pretty much negates your statement, because my friend made 424rwhp WITH a FAST intake through a stalled A4 - General Variables on the car being the same as the car in question. It's apples to apple, I'm comparing two cars, with the same A4 and same 3200 stalls. Explain to me how that is not apples to apples vs to your apples to oranges comparison (stalled A4 vs MN6).
In actuality, it all comes down to what the "I" in H/C/I is actually interpreted as. We don't know if he has a FAST intake or an LS6 intake. But, if infact he does have a FAST intake, 405rwhp with H/C is a weak setup. 405rwhp with just H/C and a LS6 intake is common. This pretty much negates your statement, because my friend made 424rwhp WITH a FAST intake through a stalled A4 - General Variables on the car being the same as the car in question. It's apples to apple, I'm comparing two cars, with the same A4 and same 3200 stalls. Explain to me how that is not apples to apples vs to your apples to oranges comparison (stalled A4 vs MN6).
I've already said if he made 405 through a 90/90 then its weak, but chances are its no more than a LS6 intake, which makes 405 right on par.
Comparing a H/C/LS6 intake car to a H/C/FAST 90 car isnt apples to apples.
Again, the entire reason that I brought up the 430 that I made was because I made it through a M6, which we've already established, has less drivetrain loss.
If I made 430 through the M6, how would a car with a comparable setup make the same power through a stalled auto?
Because thats the only intake that people ever upgrade to
meaning aftermarket, wether it be FAST, Victor Jr, etc, but to say you have an intake just by switching to an OEM part offered on the same '02 model car is completely duplicitous.
meaning aftermarket, wether it be FAST, Victor Jr, etc, but to say you have an intake just by switching to an OEM part offered on the same '02 model car is completely duplicitous.
So when all these guys with Cobras install GT heads and pumps and whatnot, its not really an upgrade, because its a stock OEM part?
I've already said if he made 405 through a 90/90 then its weak, but chances are its no more than a LS6 intake, which makes 405 right on par.
Comparing a H/C/LS6 intake car to a H/C/FAST 90 car isnt apples to apples.
Again, the entire reason that I brought up the 430 that I made was because I made it through a M6, which we've already established, has less drivetrain loss.
If I made 430 through the M6, how would a car with a comparable setup make the same power through a stalled auto?
Are we on the same page now?
The OP is saying H/C/I, in my mind I'm thinking he has a FAST 90/90. So until the OP clarifies the "I", 405rwhp with a FAST 90 is weaksauce.
GT500 and Ford GT heads are the same. Why waste the money to make a lateral move?
Ford GT and GT500 heads are too big for a 4.6L Cobra and that same Cobra would be better off with Ported 4.6L heads
I should have said Lightning guys then.
Only point I'm trying to make is that we dont know all the specifics of a setup. To make a general statement that H/C/I A4's should make 420-430 is just a bit of a stretch to me.
The number of cars that have LS6 intake for outweighs the fast 90's and alot of us in the LSx communtity still consider the LS6 an upgrade and tend to list it as H/C/I.
o dyno numbers what would bench racers do without them...
I was just thinking that,
People that argue dyno numbers just have no clue
*deep breath*
Correction factor
Density altitude
Humidity
Heat soak
Coolant temp
Type of Dyno
Model of Dyno
Settings input into dyno
Type of tires on car
Height of tires on car
Stall converter
Actual elevation
These are among dozens of factors that can seriously alter the accuracy of dyno numbers, not only from different dynos, but some can greatly effect the same dyno. The best your going to get is a general estimate from a modified car, as even higher hp stock cars have a notable variance between dynos.
Although the same goes for people that say "All bolt-on pullied Eaton Cobras trap 118-120". There are people who will just fight to the bitter end on that one, even though it's not true, and it has jack to do with the driver in some cases.
Dyno's are a great tuning tool, but their outputs are nearly worthless when trying to determine the outcome of a race between two vehicles with similar capabilities. I wish all the E racers on SVTP would get that. It's just sad to watch.
____________________________________
2003 torch red vert
KB @ 19 psi
Ramsey's Tune
4045 lbs
10.71@132 93 oct, on the tires I drove there on
Correction factor
Density altitude
Humidity
Heat soak
Coolant temp
Type of Dyno
Model of Dyno
Settings input into dyno
Type of tires on car
Height of tires on car
Stall converter
Actual elevation
These are among dozens of factors that can seriously alter the accuracy of dyno numbers, not only from different dynos, but some can greatly effect the same dyno. The best your going to get is a general estimate from a modified car, as even higher hp stock cars have a notable variance between dynos.
Although the same goes for people that say "All bolt-on pullied Eaton Cobras trap 118-120". There are people who will just fight to the bitter end on that one, even though it's not true, and it has jack to do with the driver in some cases.
Dyno's are a great tuning tool, but their outputs are nearly worthless when trying to determine the outcome of a race between two vehicles with similar capabilities. I wish all the E racers on SVTP would get that. It's just sad to watch.
x1000
the best example of this I can give is my 03 vs a ported blower 03 cobra.. He had 480 rwhp and I had 434 but all the factors that you stated and the fact that I had big and littles and solid axle contributed to my win so even dyno numbers on same exact cars can mean very little
This is a generalization and not true for all, but MOST cam/head LS1 owners I've run into either neglect to get a tune, or just don't have a good one and I will eat their shit under the curve every time. You can tell they make power, because they will lock my pull on the top end, but as soon as we hit the next gear I'll start yanking for a couple thousand RPMS until their power shows up again.
This is a generalization and not true for all, but MOST cam/head LS1 owners I've run into either neglect to get a tune, or just don't have a good one and I will eat their shit under the curve every time. You can tell they make power, because they will lock my pull on the top end, but as soon as we hit the next gear I'll start yanking for a couple thousand RPMS until their power shows up again.
Just personal experience.
But get your car tuned either way man.
I agree with you and also, there are alot of LS1 owners that go and throw the biggest cam in their car to lay down an impressive dyno number and wonder why they are running a crappy track time with stock 3.42 gearing.
H/C/I stalled auto LS1s are usually 420-430rwhp. My buddy used to have a '02 SS with a 3200 stall, ported LS6 heads, 4.10 gear and FAST 90/90. He made 424rwhp 39xrwtq and ran 11.2s @ 117mph with a 1.760ft on Nitto drag radials.
sounds like he could use a better tire and run a 10sec pass..
I cut a 1.69 60' with a lot less power, less gear and same size stall
o dyno numbers what would bench racers do without them...
X1000
Bottom line...what does the car run at the track! Dyno numbers are just numbers. I would be more interested in what kind of front/rear suspension upgrades are done?? What rear tires will he be running for the race? Will the car be full weight for the race? How many passes does he have at the track with this set up??
Either way its just for fun and run him win or lose.......
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