Putting the GT motor in the Cobra would actually help the cost of the engine. Spreading the R&D cost out over the few thousand more cars would lower the cost per engine.
Yes, it will help the cost, but we're still talking about a $40k crate motor. Even if they cut costs by 30%, we're still looking at $28k for the motor. I'm not saying the car won't cost $40k. I just don't believe it will have the GT motor at that price.
As far as the Lighting drivetrain, that truck was supposed to be $50k+, inline with the SRT-10. You could figure around the same if they put all that into the Cobra.
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~IKE~
************************** 2003 Black Cobra Coupe
Procharger F1A-C severe vacuum leak and a bad power steering pump
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2001 Mustang SVT Cobra
Tuned by Apex Motorsports with SCT :: 317rwhp/304rwtq
Tubular Chassis Suspension by HANS Racecraft, Inc.
2003 NASA/X Autocross ESP Champion
Yes, it will help the cost, but we're still talking about a $40k crate motor. Even if they cut costs by 30%, we're still looking at $28k for the motor. I'm not saying the car won't cost $40k. I just don't believe it will have the GT motor at that price.
As far as the Lighting drivetrain, that truck was supposed to be $50k+, inline with the SRT-10. You could figure around the same if they put all that into the Cobra.
This is exactly the point I was trying to bring up though WDW MKR. The ford gt engine is in no way shape or form worth 40k. Its not even worth 28k. Its worth about 5-8k more then the supercharged 03 motor, and thats if its aluminum, not Iron. Its only worth that much if its limited production, which it wont be anymore. And if the people who have them in their cars happen to be able to afford a 150k car. I'm not gonna B.S. anyone and pretend I know exact costs on these engine parts but lets be honest here. How much do these parts actually cost?
I can't for the life of me figure these parts together (when mass produced) to come in much more over 15k (without overcharging).
however,
If my customer makes enough money to buy a 150k car, well then the heads are 10k, the supercharger is 12k, and the forged aluminum 5.4 is 18k. By the way my name in this case would be hennessey as well.
This is exactly the point I was trying to bring up though WDW MKR. The ford gt engine is in no way shape or form worth 40k. Its not even worth 28k. Its worth about 5-8k more then the supercharged 03 motor, and thats if its aluminum, not Iron. Its only worth that much if its limited production, which it wont be anymore. And if the people who have them in their cars happen to be able to afford a 150k car. I'm not gonna B.S. anyone and pretend I know exact costs on these engine parts but lets be honest here. How much do these parts actually cost?
I can't for the life of me figure these parts together (when mass produced) to come in much more over 15k (without overcharging).
however,
If my customer makes enough money to buy a 150k car, well then the heads are 10k, the supercharger is 12k, and the forged aluminum 5.4 is 18k. By the way my name in this case would be hennessey as well.
I see what you're getting at, but Ford simply can't afford to knock the values of motors down too far. The 03/04 Cobra motors sell for what, like $14k? Add your $5-8k to that and you still have $20k+. Sell it for $40k and you're basically saying the new 3V motor is only worth $4-5k. These number don't even inlclude the rear (IRS or solid?), transmission, upgraded interior, etc. I'm curious to see how it all pans out, even though I'm keeping my car. Speculation sure is fun!
Ford hasn't sold any for 40,000 have they? I've seen third parties on Ebay and Kar Kraft trying to sell it as a collectable for that amount, not that it's actual value is close to that. If you piece meal it it should run around the 20g figure. But complete engines mass produced should bring it down some.... I hope!!!
didn't it go that the shelby's would be called the shelby cobra's again, and the svt (or what ever the new acronym they come up with, with the new boss) versions would be called sv? mustang? i think ford still owns the rights to the cobra name.
for the engine, i havn't heard anyone say...well maybe they'll take the current gt motor and work with that and add a supercharger. i see what everyone is saying about the cost of the gt motor. you think they might detune it a bit? to reduce cost?
as for the shelby's i believe they'll be run like saleen's, on a limited production. i honestly believe that if they do use a motor it'll probably be the gt motor, highly modded. that and maybe a rare option of the V10 (ca-ching!) also my gut feeling is that the price's for the cars are going to look pretty ridiculous for the shelby's. sweet anyways to think that shelby is back in the game to show how it's really done....
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"FASTER Faster! UNTIL the THRILL of SPEED overCOMES the FEAR of DEATH" -Hunter S. thompsoN
Yes, it will help the cost, but we're still talking about a $40k crate motor. Even if they cut costs by 30%, we're still looking at $28k for the motor. I'm not saying the car won't cost $40k. I just don't believe it will have the GT motor at that price.
As far as the Lighting drivetrain, that truck was supposed to be $50k+, inline with the SRT-10. You could figure around the same if they put all that into the Cobra.
You do realize that ford gets the engines like at cost...i bet they dont pay more than 1k for a new mustang gt motor. honestly i bet there isn't more than 2k for a gt motor at ford's price i mean i know a major part of the driveline that goes for like 35 bucks on the mustang gt for fords pricing
when u know what oem's actually pay for parts its scary
You do realize that ford gets the engines like at cost...i bet they dont pay more than 1k for a new mustang gt motor. honestly i bet there isn't more than 2k for a gt motor at ford's price i mean i know a major part of the driveline that goes for like 35 bucks on the mustang gt for fords pricing
when u know what oem's actually pay for parts its scary
I do realize. Do you realize the financial shithole that companies like Ford and GM are in? It is not their business to sell us the baddest car for the cheap price. It is their business to make the largest amount of profit as possible. They cannot accomplish that by selling motors for anywhere near cost. Also, "cost" does not pertain only to materials. You have to figure R&D, procurement, tooling, etc. I assure you that a GT motor costs a hell of a lot more than $2k even before all of these things are considered.
What you need to look at is the cost delta between the '03/'04 Cobra engine and the GT engine.
I suspect it's not as high as some people think it is.
S.
I do realize. Do you realize the financial shithole that companies like Ford and GM are in? It is not their business to sell us the baddest car for the cheap price. It is their business to make the largest amount of profit as possible. They cannot accomplish that by selling motors for anywhere near cost. Also, "cost" does not pertain only to materials. You have to figure R&D, procurement, tooling, etc. I assure you that a GT motor costs a hell of a lot more than $2k even before all of these things are considered.
yes all that is paid for. tooling is the biggest initial outlay for any of these projects. But R&D for the most part is left up to the company that is making the part mostly. That and the big comapnies are squeezing every last penny out of their suppliers. im telling you those engines cost nowhere near what you say they do. Plus this isnt a brand new engine...the engines are modular...4v heads are already developed 5.4 rods and pistons...developed, crank developed, new tooling had to be made for the aluminum block ok. i mean hell if u look at it the gt motor was built almost completely off the shelf...(for the most part in terms of development and r&d) I mean if they can sell cars for 9k invoice to dealer new and still make 1-2k on a car that right there can show you how cheap items are. and im repeating myself...economies of scale...it keeps getting cheaper the more they produce...tho in theory it will eventually become more expensive to make at a point but i doubt they will reach it. what does ford charge u for a complete clutch/flywheel assembly? what about say a bumper? i can guarantee you both them items come in at under 35 bucks their cost
I deal with suppliers everyday, and completely understand what you're getting at. I think you're just taking it to the extreme. Ford does not pay under $35 for a 03/04 Cobra clutch and flywheel assembly. Hell, I've been involved with various injection molding companies that sell parts directly to Ford. I've seen some of what plastic parts are sold for, which was more than you're quoting for a heavy duty clutch and flywheel assembly.
Yes, Ford overcharges for parts. It's called profit, and that's how they make their living. Considering we have no clue what motor will be in the car, no idea how close the concept will be to the production car, and no clue if the SVT Mustang will meet the same demise as the concept Lightning, we'll just agree to disagree.
With all of our hopes high, I hope the price tag on the next generation Cobra doesn't bring them down. Every rumor I have heard about what the 07' Cobra is going to be equipt with, it sounds like the SVT Cobra will be around $45K MSRP. As for the Shelby's, GT500 & GT350, I don't know. I assume they will be more than the SVT due to limited production.
____________________________________ 2007 BMW 335i Black E92 Coupe PROcede V3 (16psi = ~400hp)///Fully Loaded 2003 Black SVT Cobra Coupe:SOLD 6/17/08
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"Religion is the opiate of the masses" - Karl Marx
With all of our hopes high, I hope the price tag on the next generation Cobra doesn't bring them down. Every rumor I have heard about what the 07' Cobra is going to be equipt with, it sounds like the SVT Cobra will be around $45K MSRP. As for the Shelby's, GT500 & GT350, I don't know. I assume they will be more than the SVT due to limited production.
I seriously doubt Ford would raise the price $10k. The new Mustangs and the new F150 changed only minimally. Both of those cars were dramatically improved. I could see a small bump up to $5k (which is really a large bump), but not $10k. It'll price itself out of the market. I personally would pay $45k for a car with the GT motor, better interior, better suspension (IRS) and all the rumored stuff, but, most people won't pay that much more.
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2008 Performance White/Vista Blue GT500.
I would, too...if it wasn't de-tuned. I would be alot happier if it came in @$40k for the hardtop, $45k for the convertible (which was where all ther rumors were previously pointing to). $45-$50k starts geting pricey, in my opinion. This would be a harder sell, and I do not think Ford wants to build cars so they can sit on their dealer's lots. Just my .02...
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"Live free or die: Death is not the worst of evils." - Gen. John Stark
I deal with suppliers everyday, and completely understand what you're getting at. I think you're just taking it to the extreme. Ford does not pay under $35 for a 03/04 Cobra clutch and flywheel assembly. Hell, I've been involved with various injection molding companies that sell parts directly to Ford. I've seen some of what plastic parts are sold for, which was more than you're quoting for a heavy duty clutch and flywheel assembly.
Yes, Ford overcharges for parts. It's called profit, and that's how they make their living. Considering we have no clue what motor will be in the car, no idea how close the concept will be to the production car, and no clue if the SVT Mustang will meet the same demise as the concept Lightning, we'll just agree to disagree.
actaully iirc 35 is about all it cost ford for the cobra assembly. the new 05 clutches and assembly are under 35. And if i told u how i know...then they'd know who i am
actaully iirc 35 is about all it cost ford for the cobra assembly. the new 05 clutches and assembly are under 35. And if i told u how i know...then they'd know who i am
Honestly, I dont see what all the excitement is about with 5.4 a twinscrew sc making 500hp. Arent 4.6's with twinscrew sc's making over 500hp at the wheels? If the new Cobra already comes with a twin screw (whipple) what does that do to the aftermarket? I hate to be the skeptic here but I think we are all going to be a little disappointed in the final HP numbers. I just dont see how Ford is going to get a 500hp regular production vehicle past the CAFE/Gas Gussler Laws. Its gonna take more than a little upshiift light. Just voicing my opinion here, but I think the PRODUCTION 06/07 SVT Cobra will be somewhere in the neighborhood of 425 HP and Shelbys around 450-500hp. If you listen closely to what they are saying at SVT, the new Cobra doesnt need to be this muscular HP beast. Its going to be more of a world class sports car, breaking cornering, ride quality, etc. My bet is that SVT is banking on selling this new cobra on the premise of being a world class sports car with a modest increase in HP and on the strength of the new platform. I hope Im wrong. Looking back at SVT over the years there has only been a modest increase in power with each change in body style. I think the same will hold true here.
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'04 Cobra Black
Looking back at SVT over the years there has only been a modest increase in power with each change in body style. I think the same will hold true here.
I'm not saying it will have 500hp, but i also wouldnt say they were modest power increases either.
From 94-95 to 96-98 we got a 65hp increase, or from 94-95 to 99-02 we got an 80hp increase. Then from 99-02 to 03-04 we got another 70hp increase.
So if the next cobra got the same hp increase as the last two major increases got it would put it at 455hp-470hp.
If the Cobra comes in at or above 40k then consider it a failure. The price point for any mustang must be below 40k. Above 40k and you're competing directly with the vette which has a lot more technology, better reliability, better handling, better fuel economy, and is much more exclusive. Sure, some of you are more than willing to part with 45k but ford needs more than a few Mustang junkies to float the boat.
I'll take the factory warranty with my whipple rather than add it later.
I'll take my HP under the table so that I can hide it from the insurance and tax man then take my chances with the factory warranty that isnt worth the paper its written on.
I'm not saying it will have 500hp, but i also wouldnt say they were modest power increases either.
From 94-95 to 96-98 we got a 65hp increase, or from 94-95 to 99-02 we got an 80hp increase. Then from 99-02 to 03-04 we got another 70hp increase.
So if the next cobra got the same hp increase as the last two major increases got it would put it at 455hp-470hp.
Look specifically at the years the body style changed.
93-94 =5hp
95- 96 (power plant change/minor appearance) =65hp(questionable)
98-99 = 15hp
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