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  1. #1
    The Shocker IUP99snake's Avatar
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    Let the ecoboost modding begin!

    I just read a few articles in the various car magazines about the SHO taurus, Ecoboost flex, and the others.

    One article in car and driver specifically mentioned the the small GT-12 honeywell turbos that produce 12LBS of boost, the lack of boost lag, and that there is no hint of noise from them.

    So, it got me thinking about how much boost that motor could take, and what sort of modifications will give the best bang for the buck on them? More boost from the stock turbos? Larger turbos? Up pipes? Down pipes? And how much HP do you think the direct injection system can handle in its stock form? I wonder what larger turbos could be a bolt in replacement for those small honeywell units? One thing I didn't see in any article was whether or not it was intercooled. I wonder if this would be a good mod as well.
    Oh, and don't these motors already have the capability to run on E85? If so, bring on more boost!

    On a side note, it would be smart for the dyno tuners to start to get their feet wet with how to tune and work on Ford's direct injection system, because it will inevitably end up on the mustang and other fords.

    The ecoboost motors make about 350HP and 350LB/Ft of torque. I wonder how much it would take to push that up to 400? Could it be as simple as a cold air intake, exhaust, and boost controller? 500? Could this be as simple as upgraded turbos and perhaps a larger intercooler with some fuel system mods? The ultimate question is, are these motors as open to modifications as the roots-blown cobra and lightning motors? If they are, it'll make these cars much cooler than they already are.

    Could you imagine a 500HP AWD Taurus or Flex? I'll take one please.

    Homer
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  2. #2
    4 doors for more whores offroadkarter's Avatar
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    One thing is the trans cant take much more than 365 crank hp (taurus SHO) thats why they limited the power to that, for reliability.

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  3. #3
    Crazy SVT Poster 281CJ's Avatar
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    The Ecoboost V6 was designed for over 400HP, they detuned it for the tranny.
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    Procharged! 97desertCobra's Avatar
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    ^^^Well that sucks. I hope a stronger tranny is in the works. Just another reason why I never buy the first year run of ANY car reguardless of make or model. Takes a year or two to fix all the little problems.

  5. #5
    Crazy SVT Poster blainestang's Avatar
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    Brett Hinds is the advanced engine design and calibration manager for EcoBoostTM. Ford had a "live chat" with him recently where I asked him the following question:

    Quote Originally Posted by Blainestang
    The ability to easily modify the EB engines for more horsepower without worrying about weak components and maxed-out Direct Injection systems will, in my opinion, be very important to the success of any EB Fusion/Focus/Fiesta/Mustang, and to a lesser extent, the SHO. So, my question is, is there any indication of the capability of the 3.5EB, for instance, to be modified to provide greater power output without danger of component failure, etc?
    Quote Originally Posted by Brett Hinds
    The 3.5L EcoBoost meets all durbaility and reliability requirements at the 350lbf-ft of torque - and even has room for when we introduce the higher torque/Hp F150 EcoBoost. Ford does not indorse aftermarket modifications - however watch Ford for approved aftermarket kits in the future.
    To me, it doesn't sound as if he was saying the aftermarket kits would be F150-only. It sounds like they will make kits for the Taurus, too. But, who knows?


    Anyway, the chat was quite interesting. You can find the full transcript [ame="http://www.ecoboosttalk.com/showthread.php?p=791#post791"]HERE[/ame], if you're interested.
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  6. #6
    The Shocker IUP99snake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blainestang View Post
    Brett Hinds is the advanced engine design and calibration manager for EcoBoostTM. Ford had a "live chat" with him recently where I asked him the following question:

    To me, it doesn't sound as if he was saying the aftermarket kits would be F150-only. It sounds like they will make kits for the Taurus, too. But, who knows?

    Anyway, the chat was quite interesting. You can find the full transcript HERE, if you're interested.
    That's neat you got a chance to talk with them about this. He's just talking like a Ford rep should, and he's watching his back. I commend him for that. But seriously, we all know that with certain verhicles, ford builds in room for modifications. That's one thing that makes their vehicles so appealing, and I'm sure the aftermarket has lobbyists to the manufacturers to make sure it stays that way.

    Let's take an 03 cobra or GT500 vs. a Mitsubishi Eclipse, for example. The 03 cobras and GT500's really exploded the mustang scene because they responded to mods better than most mustangs before them. The new generation of eclipse, on the other hand, did the exact opposite.

    Anyways, a little off topic, but my point is that I hope ford engineered room for modifications in these motors.

    Homer

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by IUP99snake View Post
    That's neat you got a chance to talk with them about this. He's just talking like a Ford rep should, and he's watching his back. I commend him for that. But seriously, we all know that with certain verhicles, ford builds in room for modifications. That's one thing that makes their vehicles so appealing, and I'm sure the aftermarket has lobbyists to the manufacturers to make sure it stays that way.

    Let's take an 03 cobra or GT500 vs. a Mitsubishi Eclipse, for example. The 03 cobras and GT500's really exploded the mustang scene because they responded to mods better than most mustangs before them. The new generation of eclipse, on the other hand, did the exact opposite.

    Anyways, a little off topic, but my point is that I hope ford engineered room for modifications in these motors.

    Homer
    Do you see a pattern here? Forced induction cars almost ALWAYS respond very well to aftermarket support, and the industry grows aorund them for that reason.

    All manufactures build cars with "room for improvement". The cars a tuned to be safe in a huge variety of climates, and all parts are used to give durability over a long service life. Turbos are chosen to reach a specific output, but enough headroom is left so that the lifespan is not going to be compromised from the factory, nor when the car is driven at altitude. Therefore there will always be some extra flow in the stock units. You should be able to just have the stock housings machined and put in a new gt15 or gt25 chra as well.

    I am sure they limit power on the transverse tranny becuase they are affraid of warranty claims from launching a heavy awd car over the 60k mile term.

    What I was really wondering, is if they will put the 3.5 in the mustang, or if they will just replace the v6 with the EB 4 cyl when it becomes available.
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  8. #8
    The Shocker IUP99snake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nathan'sTsi View Post

    What I was really wondering, is if they will put the 3.5 in the mustang, or if they will just replace the v6 with the EB 4 cyl when it becomes available.
    Aaah! You bring up a good point! They've resurrected the SHO Taurus. It would be neat for them to resurrect the SVO mustang with a turbo 4 Cyl. If ford slapped on some GT500 handling goodies such as swaybars, springs, gears, and brakes, you'd have a sweet lightweight road racing track pack.

    I don't think that's too likely though. They'll probably keep the V6. According to Motor Trend, the Ecoboost V6 is rumored to be a year away. However, the ecoboost V6 creates a few conflicts with the V8 mustang. 1) The ecoboost motor in the SHO taurus makes upwards of 350HP, which is more than the V8GT! Would they up the power of the GT? 2) The V8 Mustang GT gets better city/highway mileage than the "eco" boost v6. According to Motor Trend, the SHO taurus with "eco" boost gets 17/25 city/highway MPG and the Mustang GT gets 18/26 city/highway. Nevertheless, this is such an insignificant amount, and the ecoboost might have better mileage in a mustang chassis because it's lighter and more aerodynamic than a big Taurus. However, the people that buy V6's for better economy vs. the V8's would have one less reason to get the V6.

    It woud be funny if the "base" ecoboost V6 mustang would make more power than the GT V8 though! I don't think ford will let that happen.

    Homer

  9. #9
    Crazy SVT Poster blainestang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IUP99snake View Post
    Aaah! You bring up a good point! They've resurrected the SHO Taurus. It would be neat for them to resurrect the SVO mustang with a turbo 4 Cyl. If ford slapped on some GT500 handling goodies such as swaybars, springs, gears, and brakes, you'd have a sweet lightweight road racing track pack.
    I've been saying that for a while, now. Ecoboost 4 or 6, standard TrackPak, and a few other things, and you've got a new SVO. I'd buy one of either the 4 or 6 in a heartbeat.


    Quote Originally Posted by IUP99snake View Post
    1) The ecoboost motor in the SHO taurus makes upwards of 350HP, which is more than the V8GT! Would they up the power of the GT?
    The '11 GT is getting a 5.0L V8 making ~400hp. The EcoBoost 3.5TT in Longitudinal RWD format will make notably more than the SHO does, but IMO for a special edition car that is differentiated in other ways from the GT, I think it's OK that they make similar peak HP numbers.


    2) The V8 Mustang GT gets better city/highway mileage than the "eco" boost v6. According to Motor Trend, the SHO taurus with "eco" boost gets 17/25 city/highway MPG and the Mustang GT gets 18/26 city/highway.[/quote]

    Like you mentioned, the Mustang would get MUCH better gas mileage than the Taurus does with the same engine.

    - The Taurus SHO weighs 4300lb... 700-800lb more than an EcoBoost Mustang.
    - The Taurus SHO is exclusively AWD.

  10. #10
    SVT God TERMIN8TR's Avatar
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    You're going to see an easy 500hp from the eb in the taurus sho.

  11. #11
    The Shocker IUP99snake's Avatar
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    I can't wait.

    Homer

  12. #12
    Crazy SVT Poster blainestang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TERMIN8TR View Post
    You're going to see an easy 500hp from the eb in the taurus sho.
    I don't suppose you work at the EcoBoost factory in Cleveland (or know people who do)

  13. #13
    SVT God TERMIN8TR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blainestang View Post
    I don't suppose you work at the EcoBoost factory in Cleveland (or know people who do)

  14. #14
    Crazy SVT Poster blainestang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TERMIN8TR View Post


    It doesn't surprise me that the engine is capable of that, but how'd they get there?... and is the SHO's tranny/drivetrain capable of handling that?

  15. #15
    The Shocker IUP99snake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by offroadkarter View Post
    One thing is the trans cant take much more than 365 crank hp (taurus SHO) thats why they limited the power to that, for reliability.
    Quote Originally Posted by blainestang View Post


    It doesn't surprise me that the engine is capable of that, but how'd they get there?... and is the SHO's tranny/drivetrain capable of handling that?
    From what I hear, the trans can't take more than 365 crank HP.

    Since it's AWD, it takes more abuse than a FWD or RWD car would, and that would limit its power potential. It'll be interesting to see what the trans can actually take.

    Soon enough, there'll be someone in this very thread who posts about their broken transmission and what happened. I can't wait to hear about it.

    But I really can't wait to hear about the stories about who can get the best 60 foot times at the drag strip. Someone's also going to post in this thread, whether it be good or bad, about installing a set of four M/T ET Streets on all four corners of their 500HP SHO.

    Homer

  16. #16
    Crazy SVT Poster blainestang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IUP99snake View Post
    From what I hear, the trans can't take more than 365 crank HP.
    Yeah, I know that's the party line... and I'm sure it's not as likely to withstand 500hp as the Mustang or F-150 will, but I was wondering if Termin8r knows of any REAL WORLD testing that has shown it capable of handling notably more than the factory 365hp.

  17. #17
    The Shocker IUP99snake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blainestang View Post
    Yeah, I know that's the party line... and I'm sure it's not as likely to withstand 500hp as the Mustang or F-150 will, but I was wondering if Termin8r knows of any REAL WORLD testing that has shown it capable of handling notably more than the factory 365hp.
    Good call. Soon enough, there'll be some fun stories. Just like when the IRS was first introduced in the 99 cobra.

    It'll also be interesting to see what Ford (or even better the Aftermarket) does to fix any weak points in the coming years once they have been exposed.

    Homer

  18. #18
    Yield right!!!! GTSpartan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TERMIN8TR View Post
    You're going to see an easy 500hp from the eb in the taurus sho.
    You think those little GT12's will be able to support 500hp? They are already pushing 12#. I would guess that you'd need somewhere in the 18-20# range to see 500.

  19. #19
    Insane SVT Poster AluminatorSnake's Avatar
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    These things look like they make really efficient power to me. And the 10:1 compression ratio has alot to do with efficient power and lack of turbo lag. I can see making 400 hp with up/down pipes, intake, tune, the basic bolt on type stuff. But after 400ish with the high compression ratio wont you have to run some sort of race gas to really prevent detonation?
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  20. #20
    The Shocker IUP99snake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AluminatorSnake View Post
    These things look like they make really efficient power to me. And the 10:1 compression ratio has alot to do with efficient power and lack of turbo lag. I can see making 400 hp with up/down pipes, intake, tune, the basic bolt on type stuff. But after 400ish with the high compression ratio wont you have to run some sort of race gas to really prevent detonation?
    You bring up a good point. E85 perhaps?

  21. #21
    Yield right!!!! GTSpartan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AluminatorSnake View Post
    But after 400ish with the high compression ratio wont you have to run some sort of race gas to really prevent detonation?
    Direct injection allows you to run a much higher c/r.

  22. #22
    Crazy SVT Poster faststang14's Avatar
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    by the time the V6EB mustang is released. there will be already a DOHC 5.0 cammer engine in the GTs now thats some options for the pony right there. somewhere in 2011 im pretty sure
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by faststang14 View Post
    by the time the V6EB mustang is released. there will be already a DOHC 5.0 cammer engine in the GTs now thats some options for the pony right there. somewhere in 2011 im pretty sure
    I am aware of that, but even at the detuned sho level of 365, I think it is too close power wise to the 400hp GT. That is why I questioned if they would just replace the the V6 with the EB4, since the goal is to downsize and yield better power and MPG with the EB series motors.

    I would rather have a TT 3.5L than the "cammer" in a gt anyways, but I don't think they would ever offer that car to fully replace the V8. I just also doubt them building both so close together power wise. That is a pitty IMHO. I would buy a 2011 3.5 tt mustang in a heart beat.

  24. #24
    The Shocker IUP99snake's Avatar
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    I think it would be cool if the v6 ecoboost and the v8 were close in power output. That way the v6 isn't seen as quite of a step down as it is today. The v6 doesn't always have to be packaged as inferior to the V8. (Although I'll still always buy a V8).

    In australia, they have the Ford Falcon that comes either with a 5.4 DOHC V8 or you can get it with a twin turbo straight 6. I think the 6 makes more power than the 5.4.

    Homer

  25. #25
    Currently SVTless ChiSVT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTSpartan View Post
    You think those little GT12's will be able to support 500hp? They are already pushing 12#. I would guess that you'd need somewhere in the 18-20# range to see 500.
    No way it would hold that much boost to redline.. Those are tiny ass turbos, I remember my VR4 with TD04 9bs it would only hold 15psi max to redline.

    I'm thinking that car could gain 40-50hp by adding a couple lbs of boost and freeing up some restrictions. I wouldn't buy a SHO to mod it, it's too heavy and the AWD will just limit what it's capable of even if you added larger turbos and the works.
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