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  1. #151
    SVT God CBrowning84's Avatar
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    Welcome to the family, brother.
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  2. #152
    SVT God 61mmstang94's Avatar
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    Can any of the believers explain each and every one of these passages from the bible? Since you guys have everything figured out and rationalized I'd like to know about these passages. And After you're done with these I literally have hundreds more of passages filled with hatred and god destroying humanity and their property that don't make sense for an almighty god who supposedly gives us all free choice to believe or not......but then he'll kill us or send us to hell if we choose the opposite.

    Now, I fully expect deflection on believers behalf on here, but it should be interesting to see why their ever-loving god who supposedly gives everything to man, yet contradicts it all.

    1) Murder and slavery:
    After this, David subdued and humbled the Philistines by conquering Gath, their largest city.* David also conquered the land of Moab. *He made the people lie down on the ground in a row, and he measured them off in groups with a length of rope. *He measured off two groups to be executed for every one group to be spared. *The Moabites who were spared became David's servants and brought him tribute money.** (2 Samuel 8:1-2 NLT)


    2) Pillage and Plunder
    *
    *** Uzziah sent men to Betomasthaim and Choba and Kola, and to all the frontiers of Israel, to tell what had taken place and to urge all to rush out upon the enemy to destroy them.* When the Israelites heard it, with one accord they fell upon the enemy, and cut them down as far as Choba. *Those in Jerusalem and all the hill country also came, for they were told what had happened in the camp of the enemy. *The men in Gilead and in Galilee outflanked them with great slaughter, even beyond Damascus and its borders.* The rest of the people of Bethulia fell upon the Assyrian camp and plundered it, acquiring great riches.* And the Israelites, when they returned from the slaughter, took possession of what remained. *Even the villages and towns in the hill country and in the plain got a great amount of booty, since there was a vast quantity of it.* Then the high priest Joakim and the elders of the Israelites who lived in Jerusalem came to witness the good things that the Lord had done for Israel, and to see Judith and to wish her well.* When they met her, they all blessed her with one accord and said to her, "You are the glory of Jerusalem, you are the great boast of Israel, you are the great pride of our nation!* You have done all this with your own hand; you have done great good to Israel, and God is well pleased with it. *May the Almighty Lord bless you forever!" *And all the people said, "Amen."* All the people plundered the camp for thirty days. *They gave Judith the tent of Holofernes and all his silver dinnerware, his beds, his bowls, and all his furniture. *She took them and loaded her mules and hitched up her carts and piled the things on them. * (Judith 15:4-11 NRSV)


    3) Cannibalism
    *
    *** If after this you still refuse to listen and still remain hostile toward me, then I will give full vent to my hostility. *I will punish you seven times over for your sins.* You will eat the flesh of your own sons and daughters.* I will destroy your pagan shrines and cut down your incense altars. *I will leave your corpses piled up beside your lifeless idols, and I will despise you.* I will make your cities desolate and destroy your places of worship, and I will take no pleasure in your offerings of incense.* Yes, I myself will devastate your land. *Your enemies who come to occupy it will be utterly shocked at the destruction they see.* I will scatter you among the nations and attack you with my own weapons. Your land will become desolate, and your cities will lie in ruins.* Then at last the land will make up for its missed Sabbath years as it lies desolate during your years of exile in the land of your enemies. *Then the land will finally rest and enjoy its Sabbaths.* As the land lies in ruins, it will take the rest you never allowed it to take every seventh year while you lived in it. * (Leviticus 26:27-35 NLT)


    4) God Will Kill the Children of Sinners
    *
    *** If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins.* I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted.** (Leviticus 26:21-22 NLT)



    5) Wives are Subordinate
    *
    *** Likewise, you wives should be subordinate to your husbands so that, even if some disobey the word, they may be won over without a word by their wives' conduct when they observe your reverent and chaste behavior.** (1 Peter 3:1-2 NAB)



    6) *God Approves of Slavery
    *
    *** When the Lord has pity on Jacob and again chooses Israel and settles them on their own soil, the aliens will join them and be counted with the house of Jacob.* The house of Israel will take them and bring them along to its place, and possess them as male and female slaves on the Lord's soil, making captives of its captors and ruling over its oppressors.** (Isaiah 14:1-2 NAB)


    7) Kill People for Working on the Sabbath
    *
    *** The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. *It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy.* Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. *Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community.* Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. *I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.'** (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)



    8) Jephthah Kills 42,000
    *
    * **The leaders of Ephraim responded, "The men of Gilead are nothing more than rejects from Ephraim and Manasseh." *So Jephthah called out his army and attacked the men of Ephraim and defeated them. *Jephthah captured the shallows of the Jordan, and whenever a fugitive from Ephraim tried to go back across, the men of Gilead would challenge him. *"Are you a member of the tribe of Ephraim?" they would ask. *If the man said, "No, I'm not," they would tell him to say "Shibboleth." *If he was from Ephraim, he would say "Sibboleth," because people from Ephraim cannot pronounce the word correctly. *Then they would take him and kill him at the shallows of the Jordan River. *So forty-two thousand Ephraimites were killed at that time.** (Judges 12:4-6 NLT)


    9) Virgins and Other Spoils of War
    *
    *** And the LORD said to Moses, 'You and Eleazar the priest and the family leaders of each tribe are to make a list of all the plunder taken in the battle, including the people and animals.* Then divide the plunder into two parts, and give half to the men who fought the battle and half to the rest of the people.* But first give the LORD his share of the captives, cattle, donkeys, sheep, and goats that belong to the army. Set apart one out of every five hundred as the LORD's share.* Give this share of their half to Eleazar the priest as an offering to the LORD.* Also take one of every fifty of the captives, cattle, donkeys, sheep, and goats in the half that belongs to the people of Israel. *Give this share to the Levites in charge of maintaining the LORD's Tabernacle.'* So Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the LORD commanded Moses.* The plunder remaining from the spoils that the fighting men had taken totaled 675,000 sheep, 72,000 cattle, 61,000 donkeys, and 32,000 young girls.* *(Numbers 31:25-35 NLT)


    10) Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle
    *
    *** For the LORD had said to Moses, 'Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites.* You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. *They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. *Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. *Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.' * (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)


    11) The Israelites Kill all the Males of Edom
    *
    *** Years before, David had gone to Edom with Joab, his army commander, to bury some Israelites who had died in battle. While there, the Israelite army had killed nearly every male in Edom.* Joab and the army had stayed there for six months, killing them. * (1 Kings 11:15-16 NLT)


    12) Kill Enemies
    *
    *** But as for these enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and slaughter them in my presence.* [spoken by Jesus as a parable]* * (Luke 19:27 NRS)



    13) Kill People of Other Religions
    *
    *** Far be it from us to desert the law and the ordinances.* We will not obey the king's words by turning aside from our religion to the right hand or to the left."* When he had finished speaking these words, a Jew came forward in the sight of all to offer sacrifice on the altar in Modein, according to the king's command.* When Mattathias saw it, he burned with zeal and his heart was stirred. *He gave vent to righteous anger; he ran and killed him on the altar.** (1 Maccabees 2:21-24 NRS)


    14) God Assists Rape and Plunder*
    *
    *** Lo, a day shall come for the Lord when the spoils shall be divided in your midst.* And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: the city shall be taken, houses plundered, women ravished; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be removed from the city. * (Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)


    15) God Kills 70,000 Men Over a Census
    *
    *** (God punishes David for ordering a census of his people.)* Yahweh spoke to Gad, David's seer, saying, Go and speak to David, saying, Thus says Yahweh, I offer you three things: choose you one of them, that I may do it to you. *So Gad came to David, and said to him, Thus says Yahweh, Take which you will: *either three years of famine; or three months to be consumed before your foes, while the sword of your enemies overtakes you; or else three days the sword of Yahweh, even pestilence in the land, and the angel of Yahweh destroying throughout all the borders of Israel. *Now therefore consider what answer I shall return to him who sent me. *David said to Gad, I am in a great strait: let me fall, I pray, into the hand of Yahweh; for very great are his mercies: and let me not fall into the hand of man. *So Yahweh sent a pestilence on Israel; and there fell of Israel seventy thousand men. * (1 Chronicles 21:9-14 WEB)



    16) Murder, Pillage, and Plunder *
    *
    *** "Next we headed for the land of Bashan, where King Og and his army attacked us at Edrei.* But the LORD told me, 'Do not be afraid of him, for I have given you victory over Og and his army, giving you his entire land. *Treat him just as you treated King Sihon of the Amorites, who ruled in Heshbon.'* So the LORD our God handed King Og and all his people over to us, and we killed them all.* We conquered all sixty of his towns, the entire Argob region in his kingdom of Bashan.* These were all fortified cities with high walls and barred gates. *We also took many unwalled villages at the same time.* We completely destroyed the kingdom of Bashan, just as we had destroyed King Sihon of Heshbon. We destroyed all the people in every town we conquered – men, women, and children alike.* But we kept all the livestock for ourselves and took plunder from all the towns."** (Deuteronomy 3:1-7 NLT)


    17) Murder*
    *
    *** At the customary time for offering the evening sacrifice, Elijah the prophet walked up to the altar and prayed, "O LORD, God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, prove today that you are God in Israel and that I am your servant. Prove that I have done all this at your command.* O LORD, answer me! Answer me so these people will know that you, O LORD, are God and that you have brought them back to yourself." *Immediately the fire of the LORD flashed down from heaven and burned up the young bull, the wood, the stones, and the dust. *It even licked up all the water in the ditch!* And when the people saw it, they fell on their faces and cried out, "The LORD is God!* The LORD is God!"* Then Elijah commanded, "Seize all the prophets of Baal. *Don't let a single one escape!" *So the people seized them all, and Elijah took them down to the Kishon Valley and killed them there. * (1 Kings 18:36-40 NLT)


    18) Conquest, Murder, and Plunder
    *
    *** So Joshua and his warriors traveled to the water near Merom and attacked suddenly.* And the LORD gave them victory over their enemies. *The Israelites chased them as far as Great Sidon and Misrephoth-maim, and eastward into the valley of Mizpah, until not one enemy warrior was left alive.* Then Joshua crippled the horses and burned all the chariots, as the LORD had instructed. *Joshua then turned back and captured Hazor and killed its king. *(Hazor had at one time been the capital of the federation of all these kingdoms.)* The Israelites completely destroyed every living thing in the city. *Not a single person was spared. *And then Joshua burned the city. *Joshua slaughtered all the other kings and their people, completely destroying them, just as Moses, the servant of the LORD, had commanded.* However, Joshua did not burn any of the cities built on mounds except Hazor.* And the Israelites took all the captured goods and cattle of the ravaged cities for themselves, but they killed all the people.* As the LORD had commanded his servant Moses, so Moses commanded Joshua. *And Joshua did as he was told, carefully obeying all of the LORD's instructions to Moses. * (Joshua 11:7-15 NLT)



    19) Slaves, Respect Your Masters
    *
    *** Slaves, be subject to your masters with all reverence, not only to those who are good and equitable but also to those who are perverse. * (1 Peter 2:18 NAB)



    20) Be Good Slaves
    *
    *** Slaves are to be under the control of their masters in all respects, giving them satisfaction, not talking back to them or stealing from them, but exhibiting completely good faith, so as to adorn the doctrine of God our savior in every way.** (Titus 2:9-10 NAB)
    Last edited by 61mmstang94; 09-17-2012 at 11:19 AM.

  3. #153
    I drive a Jalopy LostRacer's Avatar
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    Good luck. Works for some, not for all. ;)

  4. #154
    500 hp grocery getter suaveflooder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 61mmstang94 View Post
    So let me get this straight.

    I can be as good of a person that I can be and never wrong anyone, but if I say I don't believe in god and don't choose to follow him or believe a word of the whole fairytale....then I'm burning in he'll according to the bible thumpers?

    But had lived a life of hypocrisy under the assumption god will forgive my sins and just claimed to other people "yeah I believe in god" then I'll be okay and spend eternity in heaven?

    Disclaimer: I'm not saying I do, or don't, believe in heaven and hell. I only refer to their existence for the sake of argument here.
    I thought you were leaving???


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  5. #155
    SVT God 61mmstang94's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suaveflooder View Post
    I thought you were leaving???
    I edited my post. Go ahead and read it. You seem to be the authority on religion here at SVTP so you should have answers (deflections).

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by SweetSVT99 View Post
    Congrats.

    But out of curiosity, how does one just dedicate their life to something in one night?
    I just lol'd at this. Same thing with a one night stand and someone gets prego! than your whole life is dedicated.

    note to self : ALWAYS WEAR A RAIN COAT WHEN ITS WET OUTSIDE\

    Congrats to OP

  7. #157
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    Many people use religion/faith as a crutch because they don't believe in themselves. they read all these books follow the teachings when everything you need to know is already inside you waiting for you to let it manifest and grow

  8. #158
    Premium Member charba951's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 61mmstang94 View Post

    3) Cannibalism
    *
    *** If after this you still refuse to listen and still remain hostile toward me, then I will give full vent to my hostility. *I will punish you seven times over for your sins.* You will eat the flesh of your own sons and daughters.* I will destroy your pagan shrines and cut down your incense altars. *I will leave your corpses piled up beside your lifeless idols, and I will despise you.* I will make your cities desolate and destroy your places of worship, and I will take no pleasure in your offerings of incense.* Yes, I myself will devastate your land. *Your enemies who come to occupy it will be utterly shocked at the destruction they see.* I will scatter you among the nations and attack you with my own weapons. Your land will become desolate, and your cities will lie in ruins.* Then at last the land will make up for its missed Sabbath years as it lies desolate during your years of exile in the land of your enemies. *Then the land will finally rest and enjoy its Sabbaths.* As the land lies in ruins, it will take the rest you never allowed it to take every seventh year while you lived in it. * (Leviticus 26:27-35 NLT)
    I'm at work so I will make this quick. It's easy to take a couple verses out of context and manipulate them to your pleasing...just a little bit of research and you could answer all your own questions. I even threw in some cross referencing verses.

    It's part of a list of dire warnings that God gave to His people about what would happen to them if they turned away from following Him and His commands. God punishes them a little and if they don't repent He says "And after all this, if you do not obey Me," which leads to the verse you are asking about.

    Leviticus 26:21 'Then, if you walk contrary to Me, and are not willing to obey Me, I will bring on you seven times more plagues, according to your sins. 22 I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children, destroy your livestock, and make you few in number; and your highways shall be desolate.

    23 'And if by these things you are not reformed by Me, but walk contrary to Me, 24 then I also will walk contrary to you, and I will punish you yet seven times for your sins. 25 And I will bring a sword against you that will execute the vengeance of the covenant; when you are gathered together within your cities I will send pestilence among you; and you shall be delivered into the hand of the enemy. 26 When I have cut off your supply of bread, ten women shall bake your bread in one oven, and they shall bring back your bread by weight, and you shall eat and not be satisfied.

    27 'And after all this, if you do not obey Me, but walk contrary to Me, 28 then I also will walk contrary to you in fury; and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins. 29 You shall eat the flesh of your sons, and you shall eat the flesh of your daughters.

    They would eat the flesh of their sons and daughters as a result of being in a city under siege that was suffering from starvation.

    2 Kings 6::24 And it happened after this that Ben-Hadad king of Syria gathered all his army, and went up and besieged Samaria25 And there was a great famine in Samaria; and indeed they besieged it until a donkey's head was sold for eighty shekels of silver, and one-fourth of a kab of dove droppings for five shekels of silver.
    . ...28 Then the king said to her, "What is troubling you?" And she answered, "This woman said to me, 'Give your son, that we may eat him today, and we will eat my son tomorrow.' 29 So we boiled my son, and ate him. And I said to her on the next day, 'Give your son, that we may eat him'; but she has hidden her son."

  9. #159
    500 hp grocery getter suaveflooder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 61mmstang94 View Post
    I edited my post. Go ahead and read it. You seem to be the authority on religion here at SVTP so you should have answers (deflections).
    HA! Defensive much?

    The way in which you take stuff out of context shows me that you have no idea what you're talking about.

    I am far from an authority on religion, I just call it like I see it. When people read things out of context, assign blame to a certain group (Christians), but fail to see the bigger picture, I will absolutely call them out. It shows your ignorance and lack of education (in the subject at hand). Example is the constant blame of Christianity (religion) for all the bad things that have happened in the world is simply ignorant as well as your constant pointing out of all the "sin" that Christians commit.

    I'll touch on one really quickly, simply because I don't have a lot of time. Slavery. Slavery is much different in many parts (not all) of the Bible then what you or I think of when the word "slavery" is mentioned. Basically, the person would receive goods, or marriage in Jacob's case (Genesis 29) case in return for service. This was for an agreed about of time. When the agreement was made the "slave" would get his ear pierced (I think I'm remembering this correctly...someone please correct me if I'm off. It's been awhile since I've studied this). This was not a poorly treated person, and in many cases, it was to feed and care for his family that someone would go into slavery. When the agreed amount of time was up, the person was free to go. In many cases however, people would "resign up" in order to get more provisions.

    You're still not getting it, man. You are trying to pick apart something that you simply don't know about or haven't cared to actually study. You've got the typical "go to" responses of people that don't care for Christianity. Get over it. You don't agree with it, that's fine....move on with your life and go on to a different thread. This one has nothing for you obviously.
    Last edited by suaveflooder; 09-17-2012 at 12:00 PM.

  10. #160
    SVT God 61mmstang94's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suaveflooder View Post
    HA! Defensive much?

    The way in which you take stuff out of context shows me that you have no idea what you're talking about.

    I am far from an authority on religion, I just call it like I see it. When people read things out of context, assign blame to a certain group (Christians), but fail to see the bigger picture, I will absolutely call them out. It shows your ignorance and lack of education (in the subject at hand). Example is the constant blame of Christianity (religion) for all the bad things that have happened in the world is simply ignorant as well as your constant pointing out of all the "sin" that Christians commit.

    I'll touch on one really quickly, simply because I don't have a lot of time. Slavery. Slavery is much different in many parts (not all) of the Bible then what you or I think of when the word "slavery" is mentioned. Basically, the person would receive goods, or marriage in Jacob's case (Genesis 29) case in return for service. This was for an agreed about of time. When the agreement was made the "slave" would get his ear pierced (I think I'm remembering this correctly...someone please correct me if I'm off. It's been awhile since I've studied this). This was not a poorly treated person, and in many cases, it was to feed and care for his family that someone would go into slavery. When the agreed amount of time was up, the person was free to go. In many cases however, people would "resign up" in order to get more provisions.

    You're still not getting it, man. You are trying to pick apart something that you simply don't know about or haven't cared to actually study. You've got the typical "go to" responses of people that don't care for Christianity. Get over it. You don't agree with it, that's fine....move on with your life and go on to a different thread. This one has nothing for you obviously.
    Talk about being defensive...take a good look in the mirror.

    I figured your response would be deflection to the tune of "I'll just say one quick thing" and then you'd blanket statement all of them as being taken out of context.

    What about direct orders from god to murder and pillage and plunder?

    I have hundreds upon hundreds of more direct quotes from the bible of god provoking violence.

    Gotta love how good things in the bible are quoted by believers, and the bad things are just always out of context.
    Last edited by 61mmstang94; 09-17-2012 at 12:07 PM.

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by charba951 View Post
    I'm at work so I will make this quick. It's easy to take a couple verses out of context and manipulate them to your pleasing...just a little bit of research and you could answer all your own questions. I even threw in some cross referencing verses.

    It's part of a list of dire warnings that God gave to His people about what would happen to them if they turned away from following Him and His commands. God punishes them a little and if they don't repent He says "And after all this, if you do not obey Me," which leads to the verse you are asking about.

    Leviticus 26:21 'Then, if you walk contrary to Me, and are not willing to obey Me, I will bring on you seven times more plagues, according to your sins. 22 I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children, destroy your livestock, and make you few in number; and your highways shall be desolate.

    23 'And if by these things you are not reformed by Me, but walk contrary to Me, 24 then I also will walk contrary to you, and I will punish you yet seven times for your sins. 25 And I will bring a sword against you that will execute the vengeance of the covenant; when you are gathered together within your cities I will send pestilence among you; and you shall be delivered into the hand of the enemy. 26 When I have cut off your supply of bread, ten women shall bake your bread in one oven, and they shall bring back your bread by weight, and you shall eat and not be satisfied.

    27 'And after all this, if you do not obey Me, but walk contrary to Me, 28 then I also will walk contrary to you in fury; and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins. 29 You shall eat the flesh of your sons, and you shall eat the flesh of your daughters.

    They would eat the flesh of their sons and daughters as a result of being in a city under siege that was suffering from starvation.

    2 Kings 6::24 And it happened after this that Ben-Hadad king of Syria gathered all his army, and went up and besieged Samaria25 And there was a great famine in Samaria; and indeed they besieged it until a donkey's head was sold for eighty shekels of silver, and one-fourth of a kab of dove droppings for five shekels of silver.
    . ...28 Then the king said to her, "What is troubling you?" And she answered, "This woman said to me, 'Give your son, that we may eat him today, and we will eat my son tomorrow.' 29 So we boiled my son, and ate him. And I said to her on the next day, 'Give your son, that we may eat him'; but she has hidden her son."
    For a god that loves his people he sure does threaten them a lot...

  12. #162
    SVT God 61mmstang94's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speed3 View Post
    For a god that loves his people he sure does threaten them a lot...
    Oh but he loves his people trust me.

    Just don't be ignorant or he'll invade you, pillage your land and murder you for it. Oh and then after you're murdered you're going to burn in hell for eternity since you didn't listen to the bible.

  13. #163
    Premium Member charba951's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speed3 View Post
    For a god that loves his people he sure does threaten them a lot...
    I love my kids but still threaten them with the belt

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by charba951 View Post
    I love my kids but still threaten them with the belt
    Yes cuz that's the same as burning in hell for eternity

  15. #165
    SVT God 61mmstang94's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charba951 View Post
    I love my kids but still threaten them with the belt
    Much different than threats of death and eternal suffering like we see in the bible. I'm sure you don't threaten you children with that because you actually exist and you actually love your children.

  16. #166
    SVT God 7.62x51's Avatar
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    Congrats OP - it is a bigger deal to commit/recommit to Christ than we will ever realize this side of heaven. very happy for you, but none is more happier than our King!

  17. #167
    500 hp grocery getter suaveflooder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 61mmstang94 View Post
    Talk about being defensive...take a good look in the mirror.

    I figured your response would be deflection to the tune of "I'll just say one quick thing" and then you'd blanket statement all of them as being taken out of context.

    What about direct orders from god to murder and pillage and plunder?

    I have hundreds upon hundreds of more direct quotes from the bible of god provoking violence.

    Gotta love how good things in the bible are quoted by believers, and the bad things are just always out of context.
    Funny thing is I'm not feeling defensive at all. I just see what you're doing. If you look for the bad, you will find nothing but bad. Interesting thing is you can do this in ANYTHING. I have a funny feeling you are a big complainer simply because you tend to nit pick and look for the negative in most of the threads I've encountered you in. Granted, they usually end up being about religion.

    Go into a situation and expect it to be bad, and it will be bad. Look for the negative in a person/situation/event and you will find it. People like to refer to it as "energy." Which always makes me laugh. I'm just getting "bad energy" from so and so. Or I'm wishing "good energy" on myself today. Basically all they are doing is choosing what they will focus on. It has nothing to do with "energy" but with mindset.

    Go find me some positive verses in the Bible and tell me what you think. Honestly. Just look up a few. Verses of forgiveness.....of hope.....of grace.....of mercy.....Find some verses of murderers being forgiven (in fact one of the greatest, most influential man other than Jesus in the bible was a murder. Look up the story of Saul, later Paul, and Stephen) and becoming great! God can use ANYONE! Even all the sinners that you so love to point out. That is the WHOLE POINT of Jesus coming down to earth.

    Here is a verse that I've been reading every day right now. School hit me like a ton of bricks and I was super discouraged. I'm getting good grades, but getting little sleep as I am taking a full load and working full time. My wife, left this on a notecard for me one day on my books.

    "For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the Lord, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope. Then you will call upon me and go and pray to me, and I will listen to you. And you will seek me and find me, when you search for me with all your heart. I will be found by you, says the Lord, and I will bring you back from your captivity...."

    Jeremiah 29:11-14
    Last edited by suaveflooder; 09-17-2012 at 12:30 PM.

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    Premium Member charba951's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 61mmstang94 View Post
    Much different than threats of death and eternal suffering like we see in the bible. I'm sure you don't threaten you children with that because you actually exist and you actually love your children.
    I remember as a child getting spanked and then grounded was pretty much the worst thing I was able to imagine at the time. I thought why does my dad spank me if he loves me? Now I know that it's because he loves me and wanted me to grow up with morals instilled into me. It's the same thing with God. We are obviously going to see this from different points of view though as I do believe that he exists, and you don't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 61mmstang94 View Post
    Much different than threats of death and eternal suffering like we see in the bible. I'm sure you don't threaten you children with that because you actually exist and you actually love your children.
    lol, threats?

    It's like a father saying to his son:

    "Son, don't run out in the street, or you will get hit by a car."

    And the boy replies back,

    "Are you threatening me??? You mean if I don't do what you say, I will get hit by a car?? What kind of father are you!?!?! I am free! I can do what I want! In fact, I am going to make fun of you and insult you for thinking you can tell me what to do!"

    Meanwhile, the boy does what he wants - and gets hit by a car.

    People can whatever they want to do, but they can't expect to not face the consequences in the end.
    Last edited by 7.62x51; 09-17-2012 at 12:39 PM.

  20. #170
    SVT God 61mmstang94's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7.62x51 View Post
    Much different than threats of death and eternal suffering like we see in the bible. I'm sure you don't threaten you children with that because you actually exist and you actually love your children.

    lol, threats?

    It's like a father saying to his son:

    "Son, don't run out in the street, or you will get hit by a car."
    No ,it's not. If you want a proper example it would be like the father telling him he can't think or believe certain things or the father himself will kill the boy. Your example is incorrect.
    And the boy replies back,

    "Are you threatening me??? You mean if I don't do what you say, I will get hit by a car?? What kind of father are you!?!?! I am free! I can do what I want! In fact, I am going to make fun of you and insult you for thinking you can tell me what to do!"

    Meanwhile, the boy does what he wants - and gets hit by a car.

    People can whatever they want to do, but they can't expect to not face the consequences in the end.



    Wrong. In your example the father is helping his son by teaching him the proper way to survive, but the father will not himself kill the boy for disobeying.

    In the examples with god, he is the one ordering murders and then on top of it an eternal punishment for mere thoughts people have that may disagree with the bible.

    To make it simple for you, the father isn't causing his son any harm...only help. God is telling you what to do and if you disobey he'll take things into his own hands to see you suffer.

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    500 hp grocery getter suaveflooder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 61mmstang94 View Post



    Wrong. In your example the father is helping his son by teaching him the proper way to survive, but the father will not himself kill the boy for disobeying.

    In the examples with god, he is the one ordering murders and then on top of it an eternal punishment for mere thoughts people have that may disagree with the bible.

    To make it simple for you, the father isn't causing his son any harm...only help. God is telling you what to do and if you disobey he'll take things into his own hands to see you suffer.
    Such a stupid, childish way of thinking.....

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    SVT God 61mmstang94's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charba951 View Post
    I remember as a child getting spanked and then grounded was pretty much the worst thing I was able to imagine at the time. I thought why does my dad spank me if he loves me? Now I know that it's because he loves me and wanted me to grow up with morals instilled into me. It's the same thing with God. We are obviously going to see this from different points of view though as I do believe that he exists, and you don't.
    Okay.

    1) a parent tells their child "don't say that". The kid "says that". So the parent orders the murder of the kid for disobeying and banishment of his soul to hell.

    2) a parent tells their child "don't say that". The kid "says that". So the parent spanks them and doesn't let them see their friends for a day.

    You're trying to equate the two puishments? Lol

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    Premium Member charba951's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 61mmstang94 View Post
    Okay.

    1) a parent tells their child "don't say that". The kid "says that". So the parent orders the murder of the kid for disobeying and banishment of his soul to hell.

    2) a parent tells their child "don't say that". The kid "says that". So the parent spanks them and doesn't let them see their friends for a day.

    You're trying to equate the two puishments? Lol
    What I'm saying is that my punishment seemed so severe for the things I did wrong from the eyes of a child. Now that I myself am a father, I see that those "severe" punishments were necessary, and that those punishment are nothing compared to being raised by uncaring parents and suffering the possible consequences later in life. I am a child of the Lord and like a child I do not fully understand the trials and tribulations I sometimes go through. But Jesus Christ died on the cross for my sins. I have accepted Him as my Lord and Savior and no longer have to worry about being sent to hell. Just because I screw up and don't live my life exactly as the bible says doesn't mean that God is going to send someone to kill me and banish my soul to hell for an eternity.
    Last edited by charba951; 09-17-2012 at 01:04 PM.

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    A lot of people believe in a god because they are not comfortable with death. It gives them a reason to live a good life. Some people need it some don't . i am completely okay with nothingness after life.

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