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Thread: TVS vs WHIPPLE

  1. #1
    US Army Retired AIRASSAULT13F40's Avatar
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    Smiley TVS vs WHIPPLE

    After a lot of contemplating and discussions I switched out my 2.9 Whipple for a TVS. Most of the data is probably already known by most, but the biggest take away here is if you’re just going to run pump gas, 93 Octane, and primarily hit the streets, than this might work for you.

    I’m just an average “JOE” with pump gas comparisons.Took my car up to Bob Kurgan and what I rec’d back was NIGHT and DAY difference. I have completed my winter project early.

    For me, dreams of a bigger motor and E85 kind of came to end after the shenanigans with the Swamp Whore known as, IronHand Racing aka Cory Kolk. And also retirement from the Army came faster for me so my budget is not nearly what it use to be.

    I could have gotten the TVS w/ GT500 throttle body but decided to save the cash difference (about $1000.00) and go with the Accufab TB inlet and reuse my existing throttle body. (The money I saved could be used for custom cams,headers,etc someday)

    I run 93 (with a little Torco to be safe), so that netted me 19#’s on the 2.9 and 20#’s on the TVS.

    If you want a “seat of the pants” comparison…..the TVS, as all have said, comes on IMMEDIATLEY as soon as the sole of the shoe meets the gas pedal. With the 2.9 @ 19#’s (mid to upper RPMS) of boost, the blower lags. BIGGER IS NOT ALWAYS BETTER!

    My wife’s Comp Orange has a 2.3 Whipple @21#’s, so I have felt firsthand the “seat of the pants” comparison between all three blowers .

    Here is my setup:
    TVS/2.8 pulley/Accufab TB
    Stock Lower
    stock manifolds, o/r Xpipe, LM2 Catback
    JLT HB Intake
    Sct3000
    Lethal Return Fuel System
    80# Inj.
    Spec3+ clutch

    Setup was the same except with the 2.9 I ran a JLT RAM AIR CAI

    All runs on a DynoJet.
    Same tuner…Mr Kurgan (thanks again)
    Car runs and idles just like stock.

    We also tuned the car with the 2.6 pulley and race fuel.





    2.9 Whipple vs 2.3 TVS Dyno Graph~ Power the same gained TQ with the TVS







    Pretty happy at this point, car is a blast to drive
    Last edited by AIRASSAULT13F40; 06-28-2014 at 09:29 AM.

    '04 SY COBRA #3449
    2.3 TVS
    Tuned by KURGAN

  2. #2
    Blwn04 is My Bitch
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    Nice write up similar results on my old car ....2.9 vs TVS yields roughly same hp but makes more peak tq and more tq lower in the band.
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  3. #3
    US Army Retired AIRASSAULT13F40's Avatar
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    ^ Jay is probubly glad I wont be PMing him every other day now lol

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    MERICA Riddick's Avatar
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    Awesome comparison. What did she put down with the 2.6 pulley. It really is good to see a honest comparison of the 2.9 and 2.3 TVS, both seem to perform great on these cars.

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    Blwn04 is My Bitch
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    Quote Originally Posted by AIRASSAULT13F40 View Post
    ^ Jay is probubly glad I wont be PMing him every other day now lol
    Jay is a class act

  6. #6
    SVT God Mystic03's Avatar
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    man those vmp's make good torque
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  7. #7
    Crazy SVT Poster woodrow5.0's Avatar
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    Awesome write up.I actually just saw your car on Kurgans Facebook page of them installing the blower.How was your experience with Bob and Wade?Car looks fantastic by the way!

  8. #8
    SVT God stangfreak's Avatar
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    The tvs is awesome! I wish they would make a 3.3 tvs but that got shit canned.

    Just keep in mind, you were running 19lbs on a 2.9 blower. The 2.9 is meant to be spun a bit harder. The tvs does make killer tq, but you are now running a smaller blower so the 2.9 at 19lbs will feel a bit less snappy. 2.3 tvs at 20lbs pump gas should feel sick.

    My 2.9 at 23lbs is violent. There is zero lag . NONE. so you really cant say the 2.9 is laggy because at its proper place, its a violent blower. even jay said his 2.9 was violent and said it himself " people that say these big blowers are laggy have no clue what there talking about." jay said that.

    Bigger isn't always better, yes. But you have to choose the right tool for the job. If I wanted to keep my car on pump gas and run low boost like 19 20, I would go with a tvs. There sick blowers but its not the end all be all supercharger.

    also keep in mind, Justin at vmp said it himself, he only recommends running x amount of boost from the 2.3 This is why I kept my 2.9 because I want to eventually run big big boost.

    broke7, we all know him, said to me once, before you redo the motor and want to go faster, pulley your whipple to 27lbs around there. 23 to 27lbs is NIGHT AND DAY. totally different car. so at that boost level, I would want a little bigger blower for a bit more efficiency. Like I said, you just have to pick the right tool for what you want to do. Glad you got great results!
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  9. #9
    TVS Powered timspony's Avatar
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    Congrats .... Gotta love that TVS Power!!!
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  10. #10
    SVT God Blueline's Avatar
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    Hey Bud glad you posted this! I have been debating which route to go with the new Cobra and have been reading up on the TVS. I would be in the same shoes as you, weekend cruiser hitting the streets, 93 octane (don't feel like running torco) and just a torque monster. I have a lot to consider.

  11. #11
    Blwn04 is My Bitch
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    Quote Originally Posted by stangfreak View Post
    The tvs is awesome! I wish they would make a 3.3 tvs but that got shit canned.

    Just keep in mind, you were running 19lbs on a 2.9 blower. The 2.9 is meant to be spun a bit harder. The tvs does make killer tq, but you are now running a smaller blower so the 2.9 at 19lbs will feel a bit less snappy. 2.3 tvs at 20lbs pump gas should feel sick.

    My 2.9 at 23lbs is violent. There is zero lag . NONE. so you really cant say the 2.9 is laggy because at its proper place, its a violent blower. even jay said his 2.9 was violent and said it himself " people that say these big blowers are laggy have no clue what there talking about." jay said that.

    Bigger isn't always better, yes. But you have to choose the right tool for the job. If I wanted to keep my car on pump gas and run low boost like 19 20, I would go with a tvs. There sick blowers but its not the end all be all supercharger.

    also keep in mind, Justin at vmp said it himself, he only recommends running x amount of boost from the 2.3 This is why I kept my 2.9 because I want to eventually run big big boost.

    broke7, we all know him, said to me once, before you redo the motor and want to go faster, pulley your whipple to 27lbs around there. 23 to 27lbs is NIGHT AND DAY. totally different car. so at that boost level, I would want a little bigger blower for a bit more efficiency. Like I said, you just have to pick the right tool for what you want to do. Glad you got great results!
    Well said............no one that i know of has spun the TVS past 22psi so no one can really say what it will do maybe it shines maybe it's maxed out? I just went through a friend of mine's car that had a built motor, big cams and a 2.9 spun to 20psi on pump gas tuned by pete johnson and ill say this i would not describe the car as "laggy" would have loved to see what it was like on race gas on say 25-26 psi, but the car was very strong .

    I have zero biased towards any blower now as all i have a stock eaton with a 2.93 pulley lol.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by AIRASSAULT13F40 View Post
    ^ Jay is probubly glad I wont be PMing him every other day now lol
    Guess there are still some really honest people around this hobby after all !

    Glad it all worked out...and yes the Tvs up to 20 psi is a better choice...fact.




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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by stangfreak View Post
    The tvs is awesome! I wish they would make a 3.3 tvs but that got shit canned.

    Just keep in mind, you were running 19lbs on a 2.9 blower. The 2.9 is meant to be spun a bit harder. The tvs does make killer tq, but you are now running a smaller blower so the 2.9 at 19lbs will feel a bit less snappy. 2.3 tvs at 20lbs pump gas should feel sick.

    My 2.9 at 23lbs is violent. There is zero lag . NONE. so you really cant say the 2.9 is laggy because at its proper place, its a violent blower. even jay said his 2.9 was violent and said it himself " people that say these big blowers are laggy have no clue what there talking about." jay said that.

    Bigger isn't always better, yes. But you have to choose the right tool for the job. If I wanted to keep my car on pump gas and run low boost like 19 20, I would go with a tvs. There sick blowers but its not the end all be all supercharger.

    also keep in mind, Justin at vmp said it himself, he only recommends running x amount of boost from the 2.3 This is why I kept my 2.9 because I want to eventually run big big boost.

    broke7, we all know him, said to me once, before you redo the motor and want to go faster, pulley your whipple to 27lbs around there. 23 to 27lbs is NIGHT AND DAY. totally different car. so at that boost level, I would want a little bigger blower for a bit more efficiency. Like I said, you just have to pick the right tool for what you want to do. Glad you got great results!
    2.9 is a great blower Alex..and mine was great til i changed to the crusher inlet...ruined it. Tvs is still a better performing street blower on pump gas boost #'s.

  14. #14
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    Congrats on the new set up. How would you compare the TVS to your wife's 2.3 Whipple? What are the numbers on your wife's car?

  15. #15
    US Army Retired AIRASSAULT13F40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodrow5.0 View Post
    Awesome write up.I actually just saw your car on Kurgans Facebook page of them installing the blower.How was your experience with Bob and Wade?Car looks fantastic by the way!
    Bob has tuned my car twice. I will not go anywhere else. I had to drive 4 1/2 hours one way to his shop. I'll be doing repeat business with him again in the future. How many threads do you see, "I took my car to Kurgan it doesnt run right".


    Quote Originally Posted by 03 Indy Cobra View Post
    Congrats on the new set up. How would you compare the TVS to your wife's 2.3 Whipple? What are the numbers on your wife's car?
    Her numbers are on par with the amount of boost she is running, north of 625, but the response of my setup is way more sensative. We both have Accufab TB's so I will attribute this to the additional RWTQ that the TVS provides over the 2.3 Whipple, I guess.


    Just so I am being honest here, when I used the term "LAGGY" as it refers to the 2.9 thats only at the boost level I was running which was 19#'s. I did not have E85 readily available to me or I would have kept the 2.9, and I did not want to run 110 race fuel 24/7 either. My options were limited as to how I was going to be able to provide the boost thats needed to get maximum benifit out of the 2.9 Whipple. Both great blowers depending on your needs or "tool" to get the job done.
    Last edited by AIRASSAULT13F40; 11-14-2013 at 10:14 PM.

  16. #16
    Insane SVT Poster BlksvtCobra01's Avatar
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    Congrats I'm pretty positive I'm going to go with a TVS over a whipple now someday. Now what's your winter project going to be.
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  17. #17
    US Army Retired AIRASSAULT13F40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlksvtCobra01 View Post
    Congrats I'm pretty positive I'm going to go with a TVS over a whipple now someday. Now what's your winter project going to be.
    No winter project, my wife put me on a 120 day cool down period.
    Kinda like buying a gun in some states, only different.

    I do have enough money left over to buy sandpaper so I can polish my catback though
    Last edited by AIRASSAULT13F40; 11-14-2013 at 10:35 PM.

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    SVT God bad93svt's Avatar
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  19. #19
    E85 cheap.Tires expensive c6zhombre's Avatar
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    Great numbers, congrats.

    Let me say even the 2.3 whipple needs to be spun. Mine runs 22psi and the hp/tq cross somewhere north of 650 wheel. The peak tq is 680 wheel about 3700 rpms and there is no lag whatsoever, it's immediate tq hit. This is on E85 however...and heavy timing. I have a 93 17psi tune as well, and it's a lot less satisfying without question. It doesn't hesitate...but it's not anywhere near as violent. I haven't run the gas tune in over 18 months.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by AIRASSAULT13F40 View Post
    Bob has tuned my car twice. I will not go anywhere else. I had to drive 4 1/2 hours one way to his shop. I'll be doing repeat business with him again in the future. How many threads do you see, "I took my car to Kurgan it doesnt run right".



    Her numbers are on par with the amount of boost she is running, north of 625, but the response of my setup is way more sensative. We both have Accufab TB's so I will attribute this to the additional RWTQ that the TVS provides over the 2.3 Whipple, I guess.


    Just so I am being honest here, when I used the term "LAGGY" as it refers to the 2.9 thats only at the boost level I was running which was 19#'s. I did not have E85 readily available to me or I would have kept the 2.9, and I did not want to run 110 race fuel 24/7 either. My options were limited as to how I was going to be able to provide the boost thats needed to get maximum benifit out of the 2.9 Whipple. Both great blowers depending on your needs or "tool" to get the job done.


    Thanks for the info.
    Last edited by 03 Indy Cobra; 11-14-2013 at 11:40 PM.

  21. #21
    SVT God MalcolmV8's Avatar
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    Thanks for the comparison. I can relate to the 2.9 Whipple "laggy" on the stock 3.5" pulley. Calling it laggy I think is to much but rather the instant torque hit like you get on the Eaton is not quite as violent. As the RPMS climb it wakes up though. Reminds me of a turbo.

    My car sees 20 lbs of boost. Most guys say they see 18 ~ 19 lbs of boost. Maybe it's because I have the crusher intake, TB and giant air filter, not sure.

    However that's on my straight 91 pump gas tune. With water/meth spraying I turned up the timing from 3K rpms up and it makes a massive difference. The blower hits hard and violent and is so much more responsive. I can't wait till I get the smaller 3" pulley.
    Right now I'm data logging around 24 degrees timing around 6100 RPMs.
    Last edited by MalcolmV8; 11-15-2013 at 12:01 AM.
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  22. #22
    Need Terminator friends!! Schlangenbisse's Avatar
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    Awesome numbers/comparison. So basically if one wants to make ridiculous numbers, he should go E85 and spin the sh*t out the 2.9? Anything less and the TVS can do just as well?
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  23. #23
    SVT Poster Senkak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AIRASSAULT13F40 View Post
    After a lot of contemplating and discussions I switched out my 2.9 Whipple for a TVS. Most of the data is probably already known by most, but the biggest take away here is if you’re just going to run pump gas, 93 Octane, and primarily hit the streets, than this might work for you.

    I’m just an average “JOE” with pump gas comparisons.Took my car up to Bob Kurgan and what I rec’d back was NIGHT and DAY difference. I have completed my winter project early.

    For me, dreams of a bigger motor and E85 kind of came to end after the shenanigans with the Swamp Whore known as, IronHand Racing aka Cory Kolk. And also retirement from the Army came faster for me so my budget is not nearly what it use to be.

    I could have gotten the TVS w/ GT500 throttle body but decided to save the cash difference (about $1000.00) and go with the Accufab TB inlet and reuse my existing throttle body. (The money I saved could be used for custom cams,headers,etc someday)

    I run 93 (with a little Torco to be safe), so that netted me 19#’s on the 2.9 and 20#’s on the TVS.

    If you want a “seat of the pants” comparison…..the TVS, as all have said, comes on IMMEDIATLEY as soon as the sole of the shoe meets the gas pedal. With the 2.9 @ 19#’s (mid to upper RPMS) of boost, the blower lags. BIGGER IS NOT ALWAYS BETTER!

    My wife’s Comp Orange has a 2.3 Whipple @21#’s, so I have felt firsthand the “seat of the pants” comparison between all three blowers .

    Here is my setup:
    TVS/2.8 pulley/Accufab TB
    Stock Lower
    stock manifolds, o/r Xpipe, LM2 Catback
    JLT HB Intake
    Sct3000
    Lethal Return Fuel System
    80# Inj.
    Spec3+ clutch

    Setup was the same except with the 2.9 I ran a JLT RAM AIR CAI

    All runs on a DynoJet.
    Same tuner…Mr Kurgan (thanks again)
    Car runs and idles just like stock.

    We also tuned the car with the 2.6 pulley and race fuel.





    2.9 Whipple vs 2.3 TVS Dyno Graph~ Power the same gained TQ with the TVS







    Pretty happy at this point, car is a blast to drive
    I am very happy that you are pleased with the VMP TVS.
    You and I spoke a lot over that past 6 months about the swap.
    New VMP TVS 2.3 for your Terminator now available!!

    E85 @21.5lbs 733/682
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    Tuned by Justin at VMP Tuning


  24. #24
    SVT God MalcolmV8's Avatar
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    OP - few questions.

    1) In your opinion does the 2.3 Whipple on your wife's car perform every bit as good as your 2.9 Whipple did on pump gas? I wasn't clear you just said you've felt your wife's car's 2.3 Whipple pull but didn't really compare.

    2) After looking closely at your dyno graph I can't help but wonder how you are feeling any difference? about 1 1/2 HP difference and 39 ft/lbs of torque. In my experience at these HP levels you can't even feel that seat of the pants. When I was initially learning about water/meth and making some mistakes along the way I dyno'd about 50 whp losses on some combos that while running on the street I could not tell at all. Makes me think you're not really feeling more power but rather feeling the onset of "hit" of power coming on in a more sudden way? Or how would you say it?

    3) How much timing did you have in your 2.9 Whipple tune?

    BTW - wish I had a TVS to swap back and forth with my 2.9 and see how I like the comparisons Maybe one day.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by MalcolmV8 View Post
    2) After looking closely at your dyno graph I can't help but wonder how you are feeling any difference? about 1 1/2 HP difference and 39 ft/lbs of torque. In my experience at these HP levels you can't even feel that seat of the pants. When I was initially learning about water/meth and making some mistakes along the way I dyno'd about 50 whp losses on some combos that while running on the street I could not tell at all. Makes me think you're not really feeling more power but rather feeling the onset of "hit" of power coming on in a more sudden way? Or how would you say it?.
    For more than 1/2 of the curve, the TVS curve is making 50+ more TQ, at the rear tires.

    That is a huge SOTP difference, even at 600-700 hp.
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