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Thread: TVS vs WHIPPLE
11-14-2013, 06:51 PM #1
TVS vs WHIPPLE
After a lot of contemplating and discussions I switched out my 2.9 Whipple for a TVS. Most of the data is probably already known by most, but the biggest take away here is if you’re just going to run pump gas, 93 Octane, and primarily hit the streets, than this might work for you.
I’m just an average “JOE” with pump gas comparisons.Took my car up to Bob Kurgan and what I rec’d back was NIGHT and DAY difference. I have completed my winter project early.
For me, dreams of a bigger motor and E85 kind of came to end after the shenanigans with the Swamp Whore known as, IronHand Racing aka Cory Kolk. And also retirement from the Army came faster for me so my budget is not nearly what it use to be.
I could have gotten the TVS w/ GT500 throttle body but decided to save the cash difference (about $1000.00) and go with the Accufab TB inlet and reuse my existing throttle body. (The money I saved could be used for custom cams,headers,etc someday)
I run 93 (with a little Torco to be safe), so that netted me 19#’s on the 2.9 and 20#’s on the TVS.
If you want a “seat of the pants” comparison…..the TVS, as all have said, comes on IMMEDIATLEY as soon as the sole of the shoe meets the gas pedal. With the 2.9 @ 19#’s (mid to upper RPMS) of boost, the blower lags. BIGGER IS NOT ALWAYS BETTER!
My wife’s Comp Orange has a 2.3 Whipple @21#’s, so I have felt firsthand the “seat of the pants” comparison between all three blowers .
Here is my setup:
TVS/2.8 pulley/Accufab TB
stock manifolds, o/r Xpipe, LM2 Catback
JLT HB Intake
Lethal Return Fuel System
Setup was the same except with the 2.9 I ran a JLT RAM AIR CAI
All runs on a DynoJet.
Same tuner…Mr Kurgan (thanks again)
Car runs and idles just like stock.
We also tuned the car with the 2.6 pulley and race fuel.
2.9 Whipple vs 2.3 TVS Dyno Graph~ Power the same gained TQ with the TVS
Pretty happy at this point, car is a blast to drive
Last edited by AIRASSAULT13F40; 06-28-2014 at 10:29 AM.
'04 SY COBRA #3449
Tuned by KURGAN
11-14-2013, 07:03 PM #2
Nice write up similar results on my old car ....2.9 vs TVS yields roughly same hp but makes more peak tq and more tq lower in the band.2003 Cobra Sonic Blue Vert.............Gone
2003 Cobra Red 10th Anniv Vert......Gone
2003 Cobra Black Vert.....................Gone
2004 Cobra White Vert ...................Gone
2003 Ford DSG Lightning.................Gone
2003 Cobra Black Vert.....................Gone
2004 Cobra Black Vert.....................Gone
2003 Dodge Viper SRT10.................Gone
2004 Cobra Comp Orange Vert
2012 Shelby GT500 2.9 Whipple
1990 Black Notchback
ALL TUNED BY BILL MILLER @ PRO EDGE TUNING
11-14-2013, 07:05 PM #3
^ Jay is probubly glad I wont be PMing him every other day now lol
11-14-2013, 07:07 PM #4
Awesome comparison. What did she put down with the 2.6 pulley. It really is good to see a honest comparison of the 2.9 and 2.3 TVS, both seem to perform great on these cars.
11-14-2013, 07:11 PM #5
11-14-2013, 07:14 PM #6
man those vmp's make good torque2003 Zinc Cobra...Born 4/4/03 (aka Zincy)
2003 Sonic Blue cobra
Mods: back to stock
11-14-2013, 07:42 PM #7
Awesome write up.I actually just saw your car on Kurgans Facebook page of them installing the blower.How was your experience with Bob and Wade?Car looks fantastic by the way!
11-14-2013, 07:50 PM #8
The tvs is awesome! I wish they would make a 3.3 tvs but that got shit canned.
Just keep in mind, you were running 19lbs on a 2.9 blower. The 2.9 is meant to be spun a bit harder. The tvs does make killer tq, but you are now running a smaller blower so the 2.9 at 19lbs will feel a bit less snappy. 2.3 tvs at 20lbs pump gas should feel sick.
My 2.9 at 23lbs is violent. There is zero lag . NONE. so you really cant say the 2.9 is laggy because at its proper place, its a violent blower. even jay said his 2.9 was violent and said it himself " people that say these big blowers are laggy have no clue what there talking about." jay said that.
Bigger isn't always better, yes. But you have to choose the right tool for the job. If I wanted to keep my car on pump gas and run low boost like 19 20, I would go with a tvs. There sick blowers but its not the end all be all supercharger.
also keep in mind, Justin at vmp said it himself, he only recommends running x amount of boost from the 2.3 This is why I kept my 2.9 because I want to eventually run big big boost.
broke7, we all know him, said to me once, before you redo the motor and want to go faster, pulley your whipple to 27lbs around there. 23 to 27lbs is NIGHT AND DAY. totally different car. so at that boost level, I would want a little bigger blower for a bit more efficiency. Like I said, you just have to pick the right tool for what you want to do. Glad you got great results!2003 SVT COBRA
11-14-2013, 08:01 PM #9
Congrats .... Gotta love that TVS Power!!!2003 SVT Cobra | DSG | 2.3L VMP TVS | VMP GT-500 Plenum & TB | Glenn's Perf. Fuel System |
ID1000's | JLT HB CAI | E-85 | 3.0" - 4# Metco Lower | 754 rwhp | 701 rwtq
Tuned by Pete at Performance Dyno | Magnum T56 - 10.43 at 138 mph w/stock IRS
On order: 2015 CO Mustang GT | PP | Recaro Seats
----> OFFICIAL DSG Thread <----
11-14-2013, 08:46 PM #10
Hey Bud glad you posted this! I have been debating which route to go with the new Cobra and have been reading up on the TVS. I would be in the same shoes as you, weekend cruiser hitting the streets, 93 octane (don't feel like running torco) and just a torque monster. I have a lot to consider.
11-14-2013, 08:51 PM #11
I have zero biased towards any blower now as all i have a stock eaton with a 2.93 pulley lol.
11-14-2013, 09:00 PM #12DYNO VID:
2012 GT500 AKA "SMURFINATOR"
Engine By Don Wood @ R.A.D. Auto Machine
Tuned By Bill Miller @ Pro Edge Tuning
Home of : #blackopstrinitytvs
KB 3.6 powered Street Car
10.20 @ 144mph (4055lb w/driver) on 20's :-)
9.96 @ 148mph on MH 325/50-15 DR's
New project : 97 Cobra w/ Terminator swap
11-14-2013, 09:09 PM #13
11-14-2013, 09:28 PM #14
- Join Date
- May 2005
Congrats on the new set up. How would you compare the TVS to your wife's 2.3 Whipple? What are the numbers on your wife's car?
11-14-2013, 10:51 PM #15
Just so I am being honest here, when I used the term "LAGGY" as it refers to the 2.9 thats only at the boost level I was running which was 19#'s. I did not have E85 readily available to me or I would have kept the 2.9, and I did not want to run 110 race fuel 24/7 either. My options were limited as to how I was going to be able to provide the boost thats needed to get maximum benifit out of the 2.9 Whipple. Both great blowers depending on your needs or "tool" to get the job done.
Last edited by AIRASSAULT13F40; 11-14-2013 at 11:14 PM.
11-14-2013, 10:59 PM #16
Congrats I'm pretty positive I'm going to go with a TVS over a whipple now someday. Now what's your winter project going to be.2004 Competition Orange Cobra, Number 3,372 out of 3,768, BF 2.76 Pulley, BF Idlers, BF IRS Brace, MC Leod Twin Disc Street Classic Clutch,K&N FIPK, Magnaflow High Flow Catted X Pipe, SLP LM II Cat Back With MAC Mufflers, MGW Shifter, & Subframe Connectors.
451 HP 448 TQ
1992 Mustang GT, BBK CAI, BBK equal length ceramic shortys, BBK O/R X-pipe, Flowmaster cat back, BBK underdrive pullies, Edelbrock 70MM T/B, Hurst short shifter, Ford Racing Radiator, Ford Racing Hoses, & 180 Deg. Thermostat.
2001 Cobra Sold 8/12/13
1996 Mustang GT Sold
11-14-2013, 11:23 PM #17
11-14-2013, 11:28 PM #18
Welcome!10.496 @ 133.70
2013 NMRA Stick Shift Shootout winner
2014 NMRA Stick shift Shootout runner up
2013 FunFord Pony wars winner
2014 True Street 11 sec winner
2014 True Street SVT Shootout runner up
VMP TVS - tuned by Justin Starkey
Bassani mid lengths, xpipe, & 3" race catback
Maximum Motorsports 6pt rollbar
Metco Motorsports 4lb lower w/snub idler kit with all pulleys
Stifflers d/s loop & ss brake lines
JLT high boost
Steeda - diff brace & diff bushings
Magnum transmission - upgrades by Astro Performance
AFCO h/e w/dual fans
Weld RTS wheels
11-14-2013, 11:32 PM #19
Great numbers, congrats.
Let me say even the 2.3 whipple needs to be spun. Mine runs 22psi and the hp/tq cross somewhere north of 650 wheel. The peak tq is 680 wheel about 3700 rpms and there is no lag whatsoever, it's immediate tq hit. This is on E85 however...and heavy timing. I have a 93 17psi tune as well, and it's a lot less satisfying without question. It doesn't hesitate...but it's not anywhere near as violent. I haven't run the gas tune in over 18 months.
11-15-2013, 12:33 AM #20
- Join Date
- May 2005
11-15-2013, 12:40 AM #21
Thanks for the comparison. I can relate to the 2.9 Whipple "laggy" on the stock 3.5" pulley. Calling it laggy I think is to much but rather the instant torque hit like you get on the Eaton is not quite as violent. As the RPMS climb it wakes up though. Reminds me of a turbo.
My car sees 20 lbs of boost. Most guys say they see 18 ~ 19 lbs of boost. Maybe it's because I have the crusher intake, TB and giant air filter, not sure.
However that's on my straight 91 pump gas tune. With water/meth spraying I turned up the timing from 3K rpms up and it makes a massive difference. The blower hits hard and violent and is so much more responsive. I can't wait till I get the smaller 3" pulley.
Right now I'm data logging around 24 degrees timing around 6100 RPMs.
Last edited by MalcolmV8; 11-15-2013 at 01:01 AM.03 Cobra
2.9 Whipple crusher @ 27.5 PSI, return fuel system, fore hat, fuel rails, ID 1000 injectors, PTFE teflon fuel hose -10 supply, -8 return, Fore FPR, GT500 slot MAF
Tuned myself with SCT PRP
-19cc diamond pistons, 26 spline, RXT twin disk, McLeod steel retainer, fiore firewall adjuster, steeda quick release quadrant, MGW shifter, N2MB WOT shift box, billet flow idlers, LFP heat exchanger, Bassani catless X, Borla Stingers, DynoJet wideband, speedhut gauges with speed of sound pods. MM Caster/Camber plates. Hood Shocks. 170F thermostat.
Water methanol injection
Zex 100 shot nitrous
J&S Vampire anti knock
MD Racing Lean Protection Module
Flex Fuel on E85 at times
17x10.5 - MT ET Streets
IRS brace after cracked diff cover.
Window tint, magnetic oil plug & tons of other misc BS I'm not gonna list
Lean Protection Module - Group Buy Thread
05 Tundra 4.7 quad cam
98 Civic Precision turbo, built forged motor 9.0:1
07 BMW 335xi twin turbo AWD
11-15-2013, 01:28 AM #22
Awesome numbers/comparison. So basically if one wants to make ridiculous numbers, he should go E85 and spin the sh*t out the 2.9? Anything less and the TVS can do just as well?2003 Satin Silver Cobra #875
1 of 81 Satin Silver Convertible
2013 Deep Impact Blue GT Auto (Stock)
11-15-2013, 08:51 AM #23New VMP TVS 2.3 for your Terminator now available!!
E85 @21.5lbs 733/682
Best ET 9.77
Best 1/[email protected]
Best MPH 143.9
Best 60' 1.34
Tuned by Justin at VMP Tuning
11-15-2013, 11:06 AM #24
OP - few questions.
1) In your opinion does the 2.3 Whipple on your wife's car perform every bit as good as your 2.9 Whipple did on pump gas? I wasn't clear you just said you've felt your wife's car's 2.3 Whipple pull but didn't really compare.
2) After looking closely at your dyno graph I can't help but wonder how you are feeling any difference? about 1 1/2 HP difference and 39 ft/lbs of torque. In my experience at these HP levels you can't even feel that seat of the pants. When I was initially learning about water/meth and making some mistakes along the way I dyno'd about 50 whp losses on some combos that while running on the street I could not tell at all. Makes me think you're not really feeling more power but rather feeling the onset of "hit" of power coming on in a more sudden way? Or how would you say it?
3) How much timing did you have in your 2.9 Whipple tune?
BTW - wish I had a TVS to swap back and forth with my 2.9 and see how I like the comparisons Maybe one day.
11-15-2013, 11:30 AM #25