cool, thanx
Cast iron block vs. Aluminum block
- Thread starter SlowSVT
- Start date
I'd prefer an aluminum block (properly design of course). Any amount of weight savings on these cars, is more than welcome.
I've heard things about Mustang aluminum blocks being very unpredictable when they heat up. Don't have any personal exp. though.
Aluminum is lighter, and if properly built, plenty strong.
That said, I'm very glad I have an iron block.. because I know all things considered its stronger and will endure mods better.
The guy who says its a fact that the aluminum block is better is not basing it off physics. I don't doubt that an alum. could support 1200 hp.. but for how long?
And why aren't they using auminum in NASCAR then?
Aluminum is lighter, and if properly built, plenty strong.
That said, I'm very glad I have an iron block.. because I know all things considered its stronger and will endure mods better.
The guy who says its a fact that the aluminum block is better is not basing it off physics. I don't doubt that an alum. could support 1200 hp.. but for how long?
And why aren't they using auminum in NASCAR then?
Because Nascar says you can only use Iron Blocks.
The 96-99 Teksid Aluminum blocks are stronger because of the valley ribbing that they have, as well as other enhancements. The fact that they are stronger is not based on physics..Aluminum .Vs. Iron, but engineering principals. It is designed better.
Remember, it was Teksid not Ford that manufactured these blocks. Teksid also has tooling for a small Italian company called Ferrari.
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Jpjr, reason to listen what those guys say(John and Joe) is because they've been there done that.
Who do you think has been testing these blocks/engines from day one?
You question what they've done, maybe you should do a search on who those guys are and be happy they even share the info they do with us.
Bob answered you also and when Bob speaks you should listen, Bobs been beating on these engines(trans also.....lmao) for a few years now.
I know when people like John, Joe, Bob(the list goes on) speak i listen.
If i stated something false and they correct me i listen.
These guys know what they're speaking about, so honestly listen to what they're saying.
If i came off like an @$$hole, sorry i tend to do that, i just get worked up sometimes and say things i shouldn't, so if i did i'm honestly sorry.
Who do you think has been testing these blocks/engines from day one?
You question what they've done, maybe you should do a search on who those guys are and be happy they even share the info they do with us.
Bob answered you also and when Bob speaks you should listen, Bobs been beating on these engines(trans also.....lmao) for a few years now.
I know when people like John, Joe, Bob(the list goes on) speak i listen.
If i stated something false and they correct me i listen.
These guys know what they're speaking about, so honestly listen to what they're saying.
If i came off like an @$$hole, sorry i tend to do that, i just get worked up sometimes and say things i shouldn't, so if i did i'm honestly sorry.
Well then you had better call SVT up because they are the ones that supplied the information about the problems they first had with the aluminum blocks.....but I guess you would know more than the actual creators of the car.
Originally posted by CobraKindaGuy
Well then you had better call SVT up because they are the ones that supplied the information about the problems they first had with the aluminum blocks.....but I guess you would know more than the actual creators of the car.
What problems the SVT issue about the 96-99 Aluminum Block. "I" am unaware of any such realeases. SVT did assemble the block. The block was made elsewhere. And I have never heard of a 96-99 block breaking for any reason that would not break any block, including Iron or any other material.
You didn't come off as an a-hole.
My first point, to you, is that I don't know Bob.. and I have nothing against Bob... but I'm certainly not going to hide my opinion because Bob disagrees with me. Were all on the same team here...
As for the comment about NASCAR, my question was not answered. And I think it should be addressed:
If aluminum blocks were as strong and reliable as iron blocks, and as money is of no concern, why would major race builders not use aluminum? If NASCAR were not worried at all about these factors, why wouldn't they lighten up the cars and increase competition?
So to re-enforce my original point, all else being equal, a Taksid iron block is stronger and more reliable than a Taksid aluminum block. Agreed or disagreed?
Your question was answered, now maybe you can't understand the answer but it was answered.
Just like before in the other post(not this one) people will fight over things they know nothing about, Bob/Hiss thanks for coming in and helping out with the info, you guys rock!!!!
For the last time, everyone can do a search, doesn't have to be on SVTP, you can search on anything.
Try doing a search on those people listed, read about what they've done/tested then come back and talk to us.
Btw, all you had to do was click on Bobs link to see what he's done for the mod motor world.
Bobs my idol.....hehe
Just like before in the other post(not this one) people will fight over things they know nothing about, Bob/Hiss thanks for coming in and helping out with the info, you guys rock!!!!
For the last time, everyone can do a search, doesn't have to be on SVTP, you can search on anything.
Try doing a search on those people listed, read about what they've done/tested then come back and talk to us.
Btw, all you had to do was click on Bobs link to see what he's done for the mod motor world.
Bobs my idol.....hehe
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This is the engine rule from NASCAR. They have always used Iron blocks, so that is what they use. Having said that. Wait, and within 5 years you will see something different. It is either Jack Rousch or Robert Yates that has been testing a DOHC modular with an aluminum block in a NASCAR type environment.
GENERAL ENGINE REQUIREMENTS:GENERAL ENGINE CHARACTERISTICS: Cast iron block, two valves per cylinder, no overhead cams, V-8's only.
GENERAL ENGINE REQUIREMENTS:GENERAL ENGINE CHARACTERISTICS: Cast iron block, two valves per cylinder, no overhead cams, V-8's only.
Yeasure- Not sure why you keep using the 'I'm smarter than you are argument'. Do I need to go link a bunch of legendary iron block builders that support my position? Or do I even have a position? Were just having a discussion here!!
As far as NASCAR goes, my question has *still* not been answered. To answer it myself, the reason why aluminum blocks are specifically not allowed is because they are considered less reliable and therefore less safe than iron blocks. I challenge anyone on this board to link specific evidence that says otherwise. Until then I consider this fact.
(And I understand there was no 4.6 Teksid iron block. That was not the point!)
Jpjr, what does that have to do with mod motors and the castings we have(nothing).
If you would read you may understand but you're just talking and not listening.
Now what you're saying is that all block casting are the same?!?!
Honestly i don't care, please go do what you like, to each his own.
Btw, who said i was smarter then you or anyone else.
Sounds like you have a problem in listening/reading.
The problem is, a lot of these 03/04 cobra owners think just because they bought a 03/04 cobra they know everything(some do) but in most cases they don't know jack.
Now i've been around the mod motors ever since ford came out with them and have had years of reading and listening about these engines(not NASCAR).
So if you think this engine/casting is the same as evey other casting or a NASCAR casting then so be it, go buy you a cast iron block and be done with it.
Honestly you seem to be the one that knows everything about the mod motors, my question to you is, if you have done so much testing on these engine please link us to everything you've done.
I only posted what i did to help people with these question.
If you would read you may understand but you're just talking and not listening.
Now what you're saying is that all block casting are the same?!?!
Honestly i don't care, please go do what you like, to each his own.
Btw, who said i was smarter then you or anyone else.
Sounds like you have a problem in listening/reading.
The problem is, a lot of these 03/04 cobra owners think just because they bought a 03/04 cobra they know everything(some do) but in most cases they don't know jack.
Now i've been around the mod motors ever since ford came out with them and have had years of reading and listening about these engines(not NASCAR).
So if you think this engine/casting is the same as evey other casting or a NASCAR casting then so be it, go buy you a cast iron block and be done with it.
Honestly you seem to be the one that knows everything about the mod motors, my question to you is, if you have done so much testing on these engine please link us to everything you've done.
I only posted what i did to help people with these question.
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To go with your point. A hypothetical Teksid Iron Block would be stronger than the aluminum if they were both cast with the same tooling. It is the way that the Teksid block was engineered, it's design that makes it superior. Ford decided after 99 to save money and begin casting their own aluminum blocks, and since the Teksid design is a patented design, and they could not afford nor did they have the R&D time to design one better they didn't. NASCAR will use an aluminum block one day. It is not to far off. Just about every other major motor sport uses aluminum, and many of them make more power and rev higher than the NASCAR Iron blocks, so I can not concede you the point that they are less reliable or safe.
This is a quote from a man in the know from another site.
Let me provide a history lesson here to the uninformed.............
Back in 1996-1999, the aluminum heads and blocks were cast at a foundry (TEKSID) in italy, the same manufacturer of aluminum blocks and heads for Ferrari. Threre are a few reasons why ford, at the time outsourced production on these pieces. They did not have the experience and knowhow on the casting technology and engineering aspects of a durable aluminum block. Ford ended its contract with Teksid in 1998, enough blocks were produced for the 1999 run. Ford tried to get into the aluminum block design and foundry process in 1999 and released the "explorer block, or more commonly called the "mountain" motor. It had extra material around the outside of the cylinders and in the valley of the block. The problem was not the engineering or cast shape or amount of material that the explorer block had over the Teksid block. The metalurgy was incorrect and fatigued at the 700 rwhp mark. The explorer blocks cracked in the valley and in between the cylinders. Several proven racers like Joe Stewart, Dave King, Bob Trianese, Tim palmer, and John Mijovitz have identified the shortcomings of the "explorer" blocks and have found that they are useless after 700 rwhp mark period. Not One Teksid block had failed due to too much horsepower.
Moving forward.......
With the 2003 cobra in the drawing board, ford found that its current technology with aluminum blocks did not meet the durability standards that they desired (remember this is basicly the weaker Explorer block not the Teksid block). They went with a GT romeo block that was CNC machined for straightness, thats it. They have 4 mains, not six. The cobra crank was carried over from the previous versions.
The only reason why the 03 cobras are so stout is the manley rods and the forged manley pistons.......If you put those components in a 96-98 block I can guarantee you that the aluminum block will hold up to any cast iron block in fords inventory.
Now if you look at the recent hot rod magazine, you will see that ford invested huge capital on the CNC machined aluminum blocks that have found their way in the GT40. They have finally got the foundry process right. If aluminum is so weak, why is it in a car capable of more power than an 03 cobra? I need not go on with this any more.....................
Let me provide a history lesson here to the uninformed.............
Back in 1996-1999, the aluminum heads and blocks were cast at a foundry (TEKSID) in italy, the same manufacturer of aluminum blocks and heads for Ferrari. Threre are a few reasons why ford, at the time outsourced production on these pieces. They did not have the experience and knowhow on the casting technology and engineering aspects of a durable aluminum block. Ford ended its contract with Teksid in 1998, enough blocks were produced for the 1999 run. Ford tried to get into the aluminum block design and foundry process in 1999 and released the "explorer block, or more commonly called the "mountain" motor. It had extra material around the outside of the cylinders and in the valley of the block. The problem was not the engineering or cast shape or amount of material that the explorer block had over the Teksid block. The metalurgy was incorrect and fatigued at the 700 rwhp mark. The explorer blocks cracked in the valley and in between the cylinders. Several proven racers like Joe Stewart, Dave King, Bob Trianese, Tim palmer, and John Mijovitz have identified the shortcomings of the "explorer" blocks and have found that they are useless after 700 rwhp mark period. Not One Teksid block had failed due to too much horsepower.
Moving forward.......
With the 2003 cobra in the drawing board, ford found that its current technology with aluminum blocks did not meet the durability standards that they desired (remember this is basicly the weaker Explorer block not the Teksid block). They went with a GT romeo block that was CNC machined for straightness, thats it. They have 4 mains, not six. The cobra crank was carried over from the previous versions.
The only reason why the 03 cobras are so stout is the manley rods and the forged manley pistons.......If you put those components in a 96-98 block I can guarantee you that the aluminum block will hold up to any cast iron block in fords inventory.
Now if you look at the recent hot rod magazine, you will see that ford invested huge capital on the CNC machined aluminum blocks that have found their way in the GT40. They have finally got the foundry process right. If aluminum is so weak, why is it in a car capable of more power than an 03 cobra? I need not go on with this any more.....................
Well put. I am not disagreeing with your point that the better designed block will be more reliable. But, as my NASCAR reference implied, it would take a marginally better designed alum. block to outperform an iron block.
Yeasure: I'd apologize if I thought it was justified, but I am just debating here. I don't think I know everything, or I wouldn't bother having this discussion. I am truly humbled by the wisdom on this board.
Good night all.
To me cast iron is a better material then aluminum for an engine block. From a performance standpoint the only major advantage aluminum has over cast iron is weight. Cast iron is much stiffer and stronger then aluminum and will provide much better durability in the long run. It is thermally more stable then aluminum and has 1/3 the coefficient rate of expansion which means it will maintain dimensional stability better. Cast iron is a poor conductor of heat (higher heat rejection) and will provide a more uniform thermal expansion rate over the entire structure where as aluminum will exhibit more local heating and cooling over the same area which can result in thermal induced stresses due to the heat disparity throughout the casting.
Does that mean aluminum is not a good choice for engine blocks? Not at all, It has been used for years and it’s weight advantages cannot be overlooked. It’s much easier to repair then cast iron, cheaper to machine and does not corrode as much.
I read an article where a Ford Engineer stated that the Cobra engine is designed to handle about 1100-1200 hp. On a continual basis I doubt that it would hold together at that power level. But if you paired that with an aluminum block Cobra engine my money would be on the cast iron motor holding together longer. I’m glad Ford had the wisdom of using cast a iron block in the Cobra.
Does that mean aluminum is not a good choice for engine blocks? Not at all, It has been used for years and it’s weight advantages cannot be overlooked. It’s much easier to repair then cast iron, cheaper to machine and does not corrode as much.
I read an article where a Ford Engineer stated that the Cobra engine is designed to handle about 1100-1200 hp. On a continual basis I doubt that it would hold together at that power level. But if you paired that with an aluminum block Cobra engine my money would be on the cast iron motor holding together longer. I’m glad Ford had the wisdom of using cast a iron block in the Cobra.
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SlowSVT you have to be @*cking kidding me, did you even read anything that was posted.
My god kids today just don't know how to read.
I honestly feel stupid after reading SlowSVT's post above, i am lost for words on how dumb some people can be.
I remember a saying my dad told me about some people, "Some people don't believe sh*t stinks until you rub it in their face"
Hissman good luck with these kids, i'm done with this post....lmao
My god kids today just don't know how to read.
I honestly feel stupid after reading SlowSVT's post above, i am lost for words on how dumb some people can be.
I remember a saying my dad told me about some people, "Some people don't believe sh*t stinks until you rub it in their face"
Hissman good luck with these kids, i'm done with this post....lmao
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