F150 Ecoboost - important things to know

[02_Lightning]

I have seen a ton of misinformation and new folks asking about the same ecoboost F150 issues so I figured I would lay it out here. Feel free to add your learnings as well.

I have always had V8 F150s, and after I bought my 13 Shelby, I needed a pickup. I found a 12 FX4 ecoboost for the right price, but I had sworn I would never buy an ecoboost. I drove it and it rode fine, not overly impressed with power, but it worked. I bought it and began my F150 ecoboost saga and research. My truck developed all kinds of engine related problems (nearly killed my family) from the get go, but was actually par for the course according to my research.

1) stutter / shudder - this occurs when you have a quick burst of acceleration and the truck falls flat on its face. This is due to moisture buildup in the CAC. The CAC works too well and produces condensate that gets passed through the spark and blows them out. If you have enough moisture, you can hydrolock the engine. Secondarily to this, you will then eat O2 sensors and cat converters. A Fix to prolong this issue is drilling a weep hole in the CAC. Keep in mind Ford has done many TSBs for this with no fix that works. This issue is still happening - even on new trucks. Weep hole is best defense.

2) spark plugs - this engine eats plugs. Plan on changing every 15k miles. Use motorcraft sp534 gapped at .028

3) if you ever do ANYTHING with your battery, swing in to the dealer and have them reset your Battery Monitor System. It is free, and save you frustration. This is a system that is on there for gas mpg, and needs to be running properly.

4) timing chain rattle on cold start - this is a stretched chain and also relates to cam phaser issues.

5) since this is a direct injection engine, it gets fuel in the oil. With that, you will need to change oil every 3k miles - no more.

6) carbon build up on valves - no safe way to get rid of. No aftermarket cleaner as it will cook the turbos.

7) fuel injectors - wise to run Chevron w/ Techron every 2k miles. It keeps these finiky injectors clean and lubed.

8) gas mileage - this will drop when issues arise, so watch it. Factory dash gas mileage works perfectly compared to hand calcs IF you follow the instructions. To work, you must reset the meter at each Fill up. Also, best mpg realized by getting the truck up to the desired speed as quick as you can and then set cruise control. You should see no less than 18mpg doing this.

After understanding and working through all of the above, I sold the truck after just 6 months. This was absurd as I never have had to work on any vehicle like this... Just to get it to go down the road safely. So, I am back in a V8 truck with no worries.

 

[02_Lightning]

In case you have doubts about the moisture issue in the CAC of the ecoboost F150, here is proof of how much condensate it builds. This is a huge problem for Ford.

 

[Shaun@AED]

I just received my oil analysis from Blackstone on my 2013 F150 Ecoboost.
9600 miles on the oil, 25K on the truck.
The only concern was 3.3% fuel in the oil, but I'd just cold started/driven the truck for under 10min before taking the sample so it could have been contaminated from cold start. The next sample will tell the tale.
Still, the oil was fine and Blackstone recommended staying with the current oil (Amsoil 0w-20) and 10K changes.

I've never had the issue with condensation, but we do not live in a humid climate.
I've not had any spark plug issues either, but I do run Premium top tier fuel ONLY. I do not have knock retard/detonation issues which IMO could be the largest contributing factor to spark plug failures.

I've not had any issues with this engine, although it does have an oil leak at the front cover that will be resolved shortly. At which time if the timing components show stretch they will be replaced. And I do not believe Fords current TSB is the true fix, there is likely a contributing factor we have yet to find out about.

For reference I did tune this vehicle and removed the cold start issues along with enrichened tip-in throttle fueling and ensured no knock activity is present. Perhaps the stock tune running negative ignition timing and a significant amount of EGR via Cam timing contributes to some of the problems people are seeing.

Fuel economy is no better than a V8 and seems to be no worse than what I've seen from the 2.7L. 20-21 on the highway if RPM's are under 2K and 13 in stop and go city driving. My truck has 3.73's so fuel economy is not as good as it could be with 3.31's or 3.55's.

Carbon buildup on valves is an issue with all direct injected engines. A proper fix is to have port injectors as well as direct. I use CRC's valve cleaner at every oil change (10K) but have not inspected the valves visually.

My particular truck has 2 dozen or so drag strip passes and well over 300 dyno runs at high load/RPM, but when not racing or testing (R&D) I drive conservatively.

 

[02_Lightning]

One thing for you to note is the condensate in the CAC is the root cause of the downstream issues. The plugs need changed more because consistently sending moisture through them ruins them. This is why the gap has to be so small. Downstream, since the spark gets blown out, fuel is loaded in the cylinder. That unburnt fuel passes through O2 sensors and cats ruining them.
Easy protection is drilling the weep hole in the CAC to keep it drained. This moisture buildup happens on ALL ecoboost F150s. It is not dependent on anything.

 

[Shaun@AED]

One thing for you to note is the condensate in the CAC is the root cause of the downstream issues. The plugs need changed more because consistently sending moisture through them ruins them. This is why the gap has to be so small. Downstream, since the spark gets blown out, fuel is loaded in the cylinder. That unburnt fuel passes through O2 sensors and cats ruining them.
Easy protection is drilling the weep hole in the CAC to keep it drained. This moisture buildup happens on ALL ecoboost F150s. It is not dependent on anything.

I find this difficult to swallow as there are many people who run Water/Meth kits and spray far more into their intake manifolds.
Blowing out the spark will result in a misfire, which does not load up the cylinder with fuel, it's blown out into the exhaust and burned off in the Catalysts. Fuel does not ruin O2's, but it *can* overheat the catalysts, which is why Ford uses misfire detection and cylinder deactivation protocols, to avoid catalyst failure.

This engine is no different than any other aside from the fuel is sprayed directly into the combustion chamber vs spraying on a closed valve.

Boost + compression = High octane and small spark plug gap

 

[Shaun@AED]

Personally I believe most use low octane fuel (87) because 'Ford said it was OK'.
And tune their trucks for more power and towing, insisting on using low grade fuel.

I've turned away dozens of EcoBoost F150's for tuning as the customer insisted on running 87 octane.

I have data logs from trucks running 87 on the stock tune. Ignition timing at peak torque is Negative. Low ignition timing produces a LOT of heat in the exhaust as the combustion gasses are still burning when they enter the exhaust system. This is the likely cause of catalyst failure, low ignition timing from low octane fuel.

 

[02_Lightning]

You can definitely do what you want, but this engine is a ticking time bomb. You never know when it will stutter / shudder, and it will always happen under load... Making an unsafe scenario. It amazes me that people are ok with the safety/reliability issues and just want performance. It's a truck, not a racecar.

 

[Shaun@AED]

I've found the opposite to be true. VERY stout engine with steel reinforced ring lands and efficient 1MM ring pack. That is a perfect setup for boost IMO. Coupled with quality heads, cams, and TiVCT this engine is an excellent design, however emissions and octane constraints may have killed it's true potential, along with a turbo setup that needed to make as much boost as possible as low as possible to make the torque needed for a heavy tow vehicle.
My only real complaint about this platform is that they are a bit aggressive for pump gas out of the factory. 10:1 compression and peak boost on tip-in of 18psi is a bit much IMO, even on premium fuel.

With ignition timing on Premium fuel tapping out at 10 degrees on a good day, yet MBT timing 15 degrees higher that gives you a good idea on what is going on. These engines need octane to perform at their best.

As a truck I have had no reliability issues, and no concerns with reliability given the data I have vs what I've seen online with complaints and what the local Service techs at the dealers are telling me. Our local dealers sell a lot of F150's (150+ on the lot at any time), but their service reps do not see many issues with these trucks compared to other vehicles.

I think people expected more out of the truck on low octane, and shops/tuners have pushed them beyond the *thin* margin of safety Ford let these trucks leave the factory with.

It was a marketing strategy to say these engines can be run on 87 octane. The vast majority of F150's are used for work/utility vehicles and the consensus was marketing a Premium fuel ONLY F150 would result in extremely poor sales. The original projection was the EcoBoost would make up 10% of the F150 market as it was, marketing it as Premium fuel only could jeopardize the entire EcoBoost engine line.

IMO Ford should have given these F150's a 12:1 compression direct injected all motor 5.0 Coyote. It'd be safe on 87 octane given proper cam specs (GT cams would be fine), have better fuel economy than the current 5.0 due to compression, and make more power than the Mustang version....on low octane.

I do agree these are trucks not race cars. Therefore the most robust drive train that could be abused on the lowest quality fuel is what should have been used in these vehicles. Where is my 3.5L V6 Diesel Ford!?!

 

[02_Lightning]

These engines are definitely a problem for Ford. The dealers I have talked to have said it is all they work on. Dealers are awful at diagnosing these common engine problems since they are just part installers. Friends of mine also have had these same issues. Not good. Ford screwed the pooch on this engine application.

 

[Det_riot]

Sounds like someone's bitter to me and ended up with a monday morning truck. I've had my '13 ecoboost fx4 for almost two years now and have been averaging almost 40,000 miles a year. It now has 85,000 on the clock and I literally have done nothing but drive it, gas it, change the oil every 7500 mi, put an air filter in at 50,000 and JUST did the spark plugs at 82,000 because it had just started developing a misfire only under heavy acceleration. It tows like a dream and if I were to get rid of it I'd get a newer ecoboost no questions asked.

 

[DSG2003Mach1]

Did my posts get wiped or did you post that pic in another thread too?

Mine did the stumble once after a long time on cruise control.the only time I can make it happen is after being steady throttle on the highway then going full throttle which I basically have never had the need to do I just tried it to see if the truck would stumble and it did

 

[02_Lightning]

All I suggest is to do your own research. You will find a ton of folks with engines that have already let loose. The kicker, all were attributed to water passed through the CAC.... hydrolocked engines scattering parts on the road.

 

[Shaun@AED]

All I suggest is to do your own research. You will find a ton of folks with engines that have already let loose. The kicker, all were attributed to water passed through the CAC.... hydrolocked engines scattering parts on the road.

Really, ALL blown EcoBoost F150's blown from Hydro locked... That's one hell of a bold statement considering:

1. Engines replaced under warranty are NOT disassembled and diagnosed for the cause of failure unless they are sent back to Ford engineers and the customer is never told the cause of failure by a Ford Engineer.
2. It takes a hell of a lot MORE water than you think to hydro lock and engine (Far More than what you have found in your system)
3. The #1 cause of broken rods (the posts I've seen) is severe detonation
4. All of these engine failure threads are on message boards with the bulk of the users discussing Aftermarket Parts and Tunes.

Modded trucks (Lifted, big heavy wheels and tires, etc) with 85-87 octane and most of them are TUNED. That's what I've seen on the boards posted. Many are damn lucky Ford is willing to step up and replace an engine that has been modified and improperly tuned.

I've seen the data logs, I've seen the tunes. I know why and where the data and tune information came from. Tuners do not know how to properly control the throttle body. Ford strategy uses the throttle body in conjunction with the Wastegates to control boost. The throttle body controls boost FASTER than the wastegate. Tuners force the TB open at WOT creating massive boost and torque spikes at low RPM. This will drain the fuel rail of pressure which is the reason a direct injected engine can run high compression and boost with low octane. The cooling effect of high pressure fuel vaporizing takes heat energy out of the cylinder (proper direction of this spray is also critical). Losing fuel pressure while adding 100+ft/lbs of torque and 5+psi boost is a recipe for, you guessed it, detonation and engine failure.

Do a google search on F150 EcoBoost dyno graphs. You'll find they all make all their torque right at the beginning of the dyno pull. This is how you damage a turbocharged direct injected engine. I've spent literally hundreds of hours in R&D on my own truck and found it is imperative to allow the throttle to close and control boost on heavy tip-in for safety, and this is on Premium fuel.

This is what the stock curve vs a tuned curve properly controlling boost looks like:

NOT this, which is what you will find to be the Norm:

Here's a data log screen shot. Boost spikes, throttle in this tune actually does close due to hitting a torque clip, but look at the yellow line, that's fuel pressure. Commanded vs Actual. 15.16 MPA = 2200PSI commanded, and actual fuel pressure is 6.67MPA, UNDER 1000PSI. Again, fuel pressure is KEY in keeping these engines from knocking. The truck from the log below has Meth Injection which IMO is the only reason this engine did not blow.

I'm surprised there are not more tuned engine failures given what I've seen tuners / customers doing, but these engines are Robust and can take a LOT of abuse due to their design.

 

[13COBRA]

^^ +1.

OP is crazy.

I've had 2 issues with 3.5L since they debutted in 2011. Keep in mind, I've sold over 1000.

I only order the 3.5L Eco in my demos; love them. I've had SEVERAL customers push huge numbers out of theirs and drive them every day with no issues.

 

[SonicDTR]

I just received my oil analysis from Blackstone on my 2013 F150 Ecoboost.
9600 miles on the oil, 25K on the truck.
The only concern was 3.3% fuel in the oil, but I'd just cold started/driven the truck for under 10min before taking the sample so it could have been contaminated from cold start. The next sample will tell the tale.
Still, the oil was fine and Blackstone recommended staying with the current oil (Amsoil 0w-20) and 10K changes.

Thanks for all the good info Shaun! Just wanted to share this about Blackstone. I've been using them for several years as well, but turns out they might not be as reliable as I though, especially regarding fuel dilution. http://powerstrokearmy.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1317653

 

[DSG2003Mach1]

interesting posts Sean, appreciate the info there..I keep debating tuning mine...Im one of the ones out there running around on 87 (bone stock truck) and thinking maybe I really should be running premium now

 

[Shaun@AED]

Thanks for all the good info Shaun! Just wanted to share this about Blackstone. I've been using them for several years as well, but turns out they might not be as reliable as I though, especially regarding fuel dilution. http://powerstrokearmy.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1317653

Thank you for the info.
When I spoke to the tech at Blackstone they did mention they assumed it was fuel in the oil due to the flash point being lower and the lack of other material when the oil was tested.

To be 100% honest I did the oil analysis as I wanted to ensure this engine was not 'eating itself up' as the posts on the F150 boards suggest about the EcoBoost engine. Often, engines that are failing will show signs in their oil long before they blow. Since I have tuned this truck and beat on it quite a bit on the dyno and at the track, the oil analysis was to ensure this engine is still in good shape, which helps validate the tune. And of course to ensure the oil I'm using is still good after 10K miles of use.

Based on the test results and speaking with the Lab tech, I have no concerns about this engine and what was found in the oil, nor what may have been missed as I was looking for either 'Normal' or 'Oh shit you're engine is toast' from the analysis.
LOL

 

[Shaun@AED]

interesting posts Sean, appreciate the info there..I keep debating tuning mine...Im one of the ones out there running around on 87 (bone stock truck) and thinking maybe I really should be running premium now

I have data logs from stock trucks on 87 octane. If you have an Xcal + Laptop log the values in the screen shot above and watch what your timing curve vs knock looks like.

Like any engine these do require a fair amount of ignition timing to complete the burn and run properly. Timing in the 20's is what I'd run on unlimited octane or E85.

 

[SonicDTR]

Thank you for the info.
When I spoke to the tech at Blackstone they did mention they assumed it was fuel in the oil due to the flash point being lower and the lack of other material when the oil was tested.

To be 100% honest I did the oil analysis as I wanted to ensure this engine was not 'eating itself up' as the posts on the F150 boards suggest about the EcoBoost engine. Often, engines that are failing will show signs in their oil long before they blow. Since I have tuned this truck and beat on it quite a bit on the dyno and at the track, the oil analysis was to ensure this engine is still in good shape, which helps validate the tune. And of course to ensure the oil I'm using is still good after 10K miles of use.

Based on the test results and speaking with the Lab tech, I have no concerns about this engine and what was found in the oil, nor what may have been missed as I was looking for either 'Normal' or 'Oh shit you're engine is toast' from the analysis.
LOL

No problem, and actually just like you said i've only used them to see if there is any "Oh SHIT" stuff in the oil. Thankfully nothing major yet for me.

 

[Shaun@AED]

No problem, and actually just like you said i've only used them to see if there is any "Oh SHIT" stuff in the oil. Thankfully nothing major yet for me.

We've had 'those' reports before.
Ethanol burning cars that never get enough heat in the oil to burn off the fuel that gets in there. Typically trailer queen drag cars or customers whose commute is 5min and they use their race car for Daily driving.
Still, once the reports came back we informed the customers and told them how to make the appropriate changes. Those engines are still running good/hard and the 2nd/3rd oil analysis were back to normal.