How Many Will be Built?

[dom418]

Dom,
Using your logic, every dealer that wanted to order a GT500 should be able to do so, but that is not the case.
If the GT500 was the highest profit vehicle that Ford produced, don't you think that they would devote more time and money to the project? I think the GT500 is more about advertising Fords engineering and production abilities than it is about profit.

I think the F-150 is the bread winner for Ford and has been for a very long time.

I just don't believe what dealers are telling people. I think it's a ploy so they can get people to pay over msrp. They make it sound like there will only be 1,000 made. They said the same thing in 07 and the guys that paid over msrp took a huge hit. I thought I read somewhere that ford makes more money off of the Shelby than any of their cars but I could be mistaken.

It will be interesting to see what happens and it's fun to speculate. My logic is only based on production numbers from previous years Shelbys.

 

[Cam]

They make money on the Shelby, but I bet they make much more on an F150 Platinum, over $56k for a 1/2 ton?

Ford is very good at marketing these cars, and we keep upgrading to newer ones.

 

[RedWhite&Blown]

I just don't believe what dealers are telling people. I think it's a ploy so they can get people to pay over msrp. They make it sound like there will only be 1,000 made. They said the same thing in 07 and the guys that paid over msrp took a huge hit. I thought I read somewhere that ford makes more money off of the Shelby than any of their cars but I could be mistaken.

It will be interesting to see what happens and it's fun to speculate. My logic is only based on production numbers from previous years Shelbys.

I don't see how it can be a ploy when you call a dealer and want to buy a $65000 car and they tell you that they can't help you. They don't take name rank or number, they just let you walk. How can that be a ploy? If you tell them you want to spend anywhere near that kind of money on a loaded out F-series all they ask is "what color?"

There are dealers on this site that are saying they can't get any. It will indeed be interesting to see how it ends up but I'm not buying the "as many as dealers order" when dealers are turning away customers right and left willing to spend MSRP just to order one.

 

[ObieFox]

Under 4000 in my semi educated opinion.

Why?

First: The 13 has several very unique parts. With an all new car on the near horizon, it is a supply line nightmare to handle the parts logistics to match the orders and production schedules. If they try to order a few parts at a time, the suppliers don't want to bother with the small quantities. If they order a bunch or parts at one time, they may get stuck with them as the entire platform changes for the new car.

Second: The dealer allocation ordering system coupled with the propensity for dealers to be greedy and charge ADMs, only exacerbates my first point. The allocation system makes the dealers nervous about how many they can order. This encourages them to make as much profit as possible on the limited quantity that they think they will get. The ADMs, in turn, cause cars to sit on lots unsold.....which circles back around to the supply line logistics guys getting nervous about ordering the low volume, unique parts.

My 2 cents.....
Kevin

 

[Chris!]

The Shelby is a profitable car for ford- But not nearly as profitable as an F-series

Any dealer that paid the SVT fee and "certified" will get atleast ONE Shelby on the year.

A dealer that sells a large number of mustangs on a yearly basis (read Galpin) will get multiple GT500s (maybe up to 6 or 8)

A dealer that is a smaller dealer and wants more than one will more than likely have to take on some other unwanted inventory (stick no AC fiesta in that snot green color)

You need to find dealers with allocation- and negotiate. Plain and simple. OR find a good reputable dealer- and get a plain good deal. The majority of members on here paid MSRP or below- not Above. You just need to do your homework.

The only thing limiting the numbers of these cars is the following:
-amount of people willing to pay $60-70k for a mustang
-amount of dealers that certified to sell Shelby's in 2013 (they also certified for. 2014 at the same time)
-the numbers of orders being put in- in a timely fashion

Ford is not limiting the production- the dealers and the market are.

 

[USV8PWR]

I respectfully disagree with Chris but I know he has a lot of good inside information and sources. When I was looking to order one in early June I was repeatedly told by some very honest dealer owners that less than 4,000 would be made, they only had 1, 2, or 3 allocations, etc., etc. Plus we have a vendor on here who has came out and told us how many units for the blower Ford had him bid on. Again it was less than 4K a year. Now, we have Farmboy's awesome info which again shows 3,725 units. Finally let's not forget that the 2013 Mustang model year will be very short, because the 2014 Mustang model year will also be very short, because Ford wants to get the all new Mustang out just in time for it's 50th anniversary. The 2013 and 2014 Shelby GT500 is just a send off of the old platform and will not have the build numbers of the previous years because of the short model years.

Now here is my speculation as to why Ford is limiting these cars. Since the first modern Shelby GT500 in 2007 Ford has not limited them, unlike the old Cobras of the 90's. They built as many could be sold plus 1...at least I think that was the motto. The greedy dealers kept ordering and ordering thinking the 07's would be some kind of one off collectible and therefore asking huge markups whether or not they had the car already sold. Then the 08 model came around and Ford introduced the limited Shelby GT500KR. This in turn put a lot of dealers in a tight spot with their unsold 07's sitting around as who then thought the 07 was going to be worth a whole lot??? So the dealers next jumped on those 08 & 09 KR models and hoarded them with huge ADMs. I know one Western KY Ford dealer who was asking like $75K over sticker for his 08 KR and it sat and sat, and is still in the showroom til this day! Why you ask? Because then came the 2010 model with the same enhancements of the 2008 KR for a lot less money which made the 08's, with the exception of some apparence stuff, less desireable. And then again the 2011 model was better than the 2010. All the while many of the dealers who were just blindly ordering cars and asking huge markups felt the pain when trying to unload them a year or even two or more later against newer Shelbys that were more capable and had more features! The best example is the new 2011 and 2012s sitting on the lot when Ford announced the 2013 model! I'm sure this has ticked off a lot of dealers...as it did with some of the customers who thought they were buying the greatest ever to be built at the time. LoL!!

With this new ordering system on the 2013/2014, Ford has the fantastic ability to control the number of cars actually produced to ensure for 1) that the car holds it's value better and for 2) the dealers actually have a chance to make some good money on the car if they choose to do that and they have a buyer willing to pay their asking price. Everyone wins this go around, both us and the Ford dealers who agree to sell them. Remember, Ford is not trying to make a huge profit on these cars. Yes they make money off them. But the Shelby's real purpose of being created is to attract attention and enthusiasm to the whole Ford brand, which in turn makes lots and lots of money for them.

Just a financial guy's point of view.

 

[Snoopy49]

Ford is not limiting the production- the dealers and the market are.

IMO that is not the case. There are plenty of dealers and customers trying to order these cars. Ford will not accept all the orders because they don't have the production capacity to meet the demand. That is one of the reasons for allocations. If you can only make 5000 cars a year and you have 3000+ dealers and you don't want to spend the additional money required to increase production, you have no other option than to limit the number of cars you offer for sell and to whom you sell those cars.

 

[Chris!]

IMO that is not the case. There are plenty of dealers and customers trying to order these cars. Ford will not accept all the orders because they don't have the production capacity to meet the demand. That is one of the reasons for allocations. If you can only make 5000 cars a year and you have 3000+ dealers and you don't want to spend the additional money required to increase production, you have no other option than to limit the number of cars you offer for sell and to whom you sell those cars.

I think you missed my point. There are people that want to order them/ but dealers want $10k over sticker for them- making those people that want to order-
Not order.

I do- however wish I knew the number of dealers that certified for the 13/14 Shelby- that would make it alot easier to estimate

Dont forget- the head of SVT himself said they'd build as many as we're ordered...unless of course he misspoke or misremembered (thank you Mr Clemens)

 

[dom418]

Have to agree with Chris. If its a limited run it won't be because of ford but because of dealers and demand. But USV8PWR also brings up some good points as well. I guess that's the fun in speculating. In the meantime, just enjoy what you got and have fun

 

[Stinger99]

Assuming farmboy90's figures are accurate, you fail to take into account Ford Racing and over the counter sales for some if not all of the additional blowers.

I remembered that After I hit enter...lol

 

[Stinger99]

Dont forget- the head of SVT himself said they'd build as many as we're ordered...unless of course he misspoke or misremembered (thank you Mr Clemens)

See I think that's where everyone is getting mixed up.

Like you said in A earlier post Chris about the dealers asking crazy adm's for the cars. The dealers are controlling the market right now.

 

[Snoopy49]

I think you missed my point. There are people that want to order them/ but dealers want $10k over sticker for them- making those people that want to order-
Not order.

I do- however wish I knew the number of dealers that certified for the 13/14 Shelby- that would make it alot easier to estimate

Don't forget- the head of SVT himself said they'd build as many as we're ordered...unless of course he misspoke or misremembered (thank you Mr Clemens)

I see your point and you are correct about some of the dealers and their greed. But for every greedy dealer there is a dealer that would love to take all the orders they could get and sell them all for MSRP or less, problem is they can't even place an order with Ford for one of these cars because there just aren't enough to go around. The two closest dealers to me can't even talk about ordering a 2013 GT500, they only had 1 allocation and have used it. The best they can do is try to get one from one of the greedy dealers or put you on a waiting list with the understanding they can't guarantee that the order will ever be accepted by Ford. Does this sound like a policy that encourages volume sales?

As far as the head of SVT's statement, he may have been basing it on the previous years sales. He may be factoring in the amount of unsold 2012's sitting on dealers lots when the 2013 was put on sale and subtracting those cars from the total number cars manufactured to arrive at the actual number sold to customers (demand).

Total production and total sales to retail customers are two different numbers. Ford has to estimate demand before they can set up for production and as far as they are concerned, their estimate should meet demand. If they over estimate the number of cars than they can sell to retail customers, they end up with unsold cars collecting dust on dealers lots. This may account for the lower projected number of cars for sale this year.

As has been stated previously, without inside information all we are doing is speculating.

 

[Snoopy49]

See I think that's where everyone is getting mixed up.

Like you said in A earlier post Chris about the dealers asking crazy adm's for the cars. The dealers are controlling the market right now.

It is not the dealers who are controlling the market, it is the supply. The greedy dealers (minority of the dealers) are just trying to take advantage of the limited supply.

If the supply was not limited, how would you explain the over 2000 customers who have cars on order that have not even been scheduled for production?

 

[Chris!]

It is not the dealers who are controlling the market, it is the supply. The greedy dealers (minority of the dealers) are just trying to take advantage of the limited supply.

If the supply was not limited, how would you explain the over 2000 customers who have cars on order that have not even been scheduled for production?

If the car had been allocated-it will get scheduled.

It's July 2012- from my source- there are still 5 months left left to build these cars- and they've only been being built for 2.5mos.

I just think its premature that we speculate build numbers at this point

 

[Snoopy49]

Chris,
The company had to figure out how many of these cars would be built long before they took the first order. They have to have a projected number of car to be built before they can allocate people and space to build the parts that are only used on this car. They also have to deal and coordinate with suppliers that sometimes require long lead times. Ford does not have the flexibility to increase there capacity at the drop of a hat, there are just too many people in the supply chain that have commitments of their own.

 

[farmboy90]

Chris,
The company had to figure out how many of these cars would be built long before they took the first order. They have to have a projected number of car to be built before they can allocate people and space to build the parts that are only used on this car. They also have to deal and coordinate with suppliers that sometimes require long lead times. Ford does not have the flexibility to increase there capacity at the drop of a hat, there are just too many people in the supply chain that have commitments of their own.

Agree. And that number is about 3,725.

 

[Chris!]

Youre more than welcome to continue with your theory- i just don't agree.


They didn't set out to build x number of GT500s- they're also building the same car with the same motors and the same parts in 2014- they will continue to order parts from suppliers as long as there are people willing to buy the car. They don't put in a set order for parts at the beginning- they put in an initial order and then judge consumer demand for additional orders.

Ill flip it on you- say the car was a flop- and no one bought it. They would be stuck with all these parts that they "anticipated" selling cars for- and they never sold- cause the cars weren't brin ordered.

It's bad business.

They order parts based on demand- not on a hunch of what they think they are going to sell- we're talking about Ford here- not GM

 

[Snoopy49]

If the car had been allocated-it will get scheduled.

It's July 2012- from my source- there are still 5 months left left to build these cars- and they've only been being built for 2.5mos.

I just think its premature that we speculate build numbers at this point

I agree that all the cars that have been allocated at this time, will get built. But the question is, have all the allocations been used? Can someone still go down to their local dealer and order one of these cars? Ford can no longer accept orders when the number of allocations equals the number of cars that Ford is capable of building during the build window.
No one but an insider could say with authority when the last day to order a GT500 will be, but I will bet you that day will come long before November 29, 2012.

 

[Chris!]

I agree that all the cars that have been allocated at this time, will get built. But the question is, have all the allocations been used? Can someone still go down to their local dealer and order one of these cars? Ford can no longer accept orders when the number of allocations equals the number of cars that Ford is capable of building during the build window.
No one but an insider could say with authority when the last day to order a GT500 will be, but I will bet you that day will come long before November 29, 2012.

Yes. Someone can still go down and order one- someone on this board just ordered one a couple of days back. Only a week ago- my dealer was awarded a 2nd allocation- and I was able to give it to someone here.

There are still allocations available for people to order cars as of this past week. In fact one of my clients is looking for someone to take their second allocation- a Q4 build car- but they want over MSRP- so I havnt bothered to help.

So yes- you can still order one.

I mean no disrespect- but I know you're new here- and not sure where you are from- but Its already been said order banks will be open past that date. Take a few minutes to read around- alot of this stuff has already been gone over.

This vehicle is a 2013. They're going to continue to build this car- and then begin building 2014s next spring.

 

[Snoopy49]

The order banks being open beyond the date I stated has no relevance in this discussion. They can be open until hell freezes over, but that doesn't apply to a limited production car like the GT500. I know you’re going to quote SVT's head guy and say this is not a limited production car because he said they will make all the cars anyone wants to buy plus 1. It is BS, the reality is they can only sell as many cars as they can make and they are limited to the number of cars they can make and that limit is determined before the first car is ordered. They can discontinue a model anytime they wish and I am sure there is a clause in the supplier contracts that addresses this situation. It may not be as easy to extend the run past the initial planned number of cars. They would have to make new or modify existing contracts to make sure they have the additional parts needed for the new production schedule. They would have to make arrangements with the union to increase the workforce or shuffle existing employees to cover the added labor requirement. Possible add a new shift and train the new employees. Before all this happens you have to convince the accountants (bean counters) that the company will benefit financially. Not an easy sell.

It is not as simple as you imply, there are a lot of hoops that have to be jumped through before the decision to produce a car is even made. Whoever pitches the idea for the cars production has to show a demand, prove that they can sell enough cars to recover the expenses involved with the venture and make a profit. They have to project the anticipated demand (how many cars will be built) and show that they can make sure all the parts needed to produce the cars will be available at exactly the time they are needed. This requires elaborate supplier contracts to make sure the supplier is capable of not only making the parts required for the project, but also capable of delivering them when they are needed on the line. Most manufactures have more than one supplier for each part as an insurance policy to cover unforeseen delays. You can't make something without the parts. Plus they have to assure all the bean counters that the plan will work as advertised. Without knowing how many will be made, how can you make long term arrangements to make sure the parts, facilities and manpower needed are available when you need them.

Ford doesn't contract for 4000 blowers and immediately take delivery and then warehouse them. They contract with the suppler and the supplier agrees to manufacture and deliverer them according to a schedule. The schedule will spell out exactly how many blowers are needed and there required delivery date. This also allows for any modifications that may need to be made do to potential design or manufacturing flaws can be accomplished in a timely manner.

I have been associated with aircraft manufacturing for over 22 years and I know how hard it is to build something and some of the steps that are involved in the planning and production stages. I am no expert and never claim to be. But I do have some insight to the process.