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Discussion in 'SVT Shelby GT500' started by 6-Speed, Dec 2, 2010.
Here is a VOA of the Motorcraft 5W50 Full Synthetic Motor Oil. Now we have a baseline.
ZDDP (zinc dialkyldithiophosphate) is very Low. JEEZ!! A good level is Phosphorus 763 ppm, & Zinc 1577 ppm.
I'm surprised the P and Zn are so low in a virgin sample. Blackstone ran two analysis on the sample with the same results. Even the analysis done on a used sample with 6000 miles on it had much more (P = 655, Zn = 928). At least we now know it starts off as a 50 grade oil. My sample came from the half-quart bottle left over from my previous oil change last April.
Ford/Motorcraft Oil used to have higher levels, that older test probably had Ford old sotck that had the higher levels in it. There is a way to tell between the old & new oil stock.
The bottles have different colored caps.
Bottle has a GOLD cap.
That's for doing that for us
I should test some virgin valvoline roush oil an castrol
I don't know if the additives are suspended in the oil or whether they may have settled. Wonder whether the results would be different if I shook up the bottle first before taking the sample. :shrug:
I'm still waiting on my Factory Fill OA and a new kit to do the VOA on RedLine 5w-50. As soon as I get it, I'll post up.
Same here, I am very curious.
Red Line Zinc/Phosphorus additive is highly recommended.
Valvoline Roush Oil is high in Zinc & Phosphorus, it is hands down some of the best Full Synthetic 5W-50 for our cars.i If you can find it as it is
no longer being produced. Valvoline & Roush have parted ways
On E-Bay Jegs is selling Roush 5W-50 for $17.00 a Quart!!
I've said it before, and I will say it again. If you have to add anything to an oil to make it perform as intended, you chose the WRONG lubricant for the job.
Low ZDDP from the Mobil 1 5W-50, I'm not surprized, and why I will NEVER pour an API SM/SN lubricant in ANY engine I own.
It's still a group III base stock, I would lean more towards Red Line for the superior group IV. Although, shearing will still occur due to the extra added viscosity improvers. It seems to be the nature of the beast for 5W-50 lubes.
If additives are no longer being used or in this case it has been mandated to be reduced for pollution control, you can add it. It is not a quality issue. By law a maximum amount can only be present. So be quiet! It was not Mobil 1 that we were even discussing. "That is why the Red Line Zinc/Phosphorus additive is sold under their Racing Section. Off Road use only.
I use Red Line 5W-50 with Red Line Zinc/Phosphorus addittive.:bash:
No I will NOT be quiet. You are taking on an argument that you cannot win. It's not a LAW that the end user is forced to choose an API certified oil that is low in ZDDP. It's not law that an oil manufacturer is forced to limit the amounts of ZDDP. It's only policy that in order to pass the API SM/SN standards, ZDDP is limited to 800 ppm. The manufacturer recommended API certified products, so that they know the "minimum" standards are met.
That's really funny too...I've seen API SM logos on some of the cheapest crap engine oil you can find at the dollar store. It's rather humorous.
I've said this many times before as well. API SM "low ZDDP" formulations were brought forth to give added cushion to the manufacturers that the catalysts would survive over 100,000 miles (they were only required to warranty catalysts up to 80,000 miles during the API SL "high ZDDP" era.
This all comes down to NOACK Volatility, and the API doesn't even take it into consideration. DEE DEE DEE!!!
An engine lubricant with low volatilty (evaporation) and high ZDDP will contaminate a catalyst no more than an engine lubricant with high volatilty and low ZDDP. It's been proven, but the API ignores the fact. The manufacturers do not care that lower amounts of ZDDP are causing more wear than API SL formulations. The engine will be long out of warranty before the added wear becomes an issue.
Facts don't lie, and I have them. If you have to add anything to an engine oil, you chose the wrong oil...period.
You use words like "POLICY, STANDARDS". Only a certain amount can be present. If we want to add more as we have knowledge why the additive has been limited. Then why do you care?
Why do you think Race Oils are so High in these two additives?
Again Using a high Quality Oil like Red Line 5W-50 & adding their Zinc/Phosphorus additive is highly recommended. This is crucial if you are still breaking in your engine.
Guru oil boy loves hearing himself talk. Keep telling people they should not use 5W-50 as you have been. Guess you know more than the people who designed the tolerances of this Motor.
Race oils have high amounts of ZDDP, very true, and for good reason (high temps, high pressures, high stress). The con of race oils, low TBN content (detergent additives).
Your Red Line 5W-50 should have ample amounts of ZDDP in normal form, as it's an API SL style formulation.
If you need more than what is formulated, why not choose an oil that has ALL the requirements for your engine.
Do I know more than the manufacturers, never (they make political decisions, most are not always what is best for the end user). Do I know more than just about everyone else who posts here....more than likely.
Oh, and I care because....AMSOIL formulates high ZDDP additive packs in their 10W-40 and 20W-50 street oils. I don't have to add anything extra to get the protection my engine deserves.
I had a sample of 15w40 RP from the SVTP F-350 done with 5000 miles on it and I think it had a higher TBN than this oil has new.
Can some one please post an ASTM, ASME, API, etc. table that outlines desired oil properties (i.e. ranges of what is good and bad). This would be most useful.
I don't think anyone is saying that you’re flat out wrong by putting an additive in your oil. I think what UnleashedBeast is saying is that if you NEED to put additives in the oil, you’re probably not using the best oil that you could be. The thing you need to understand about manufacturer recommended lubricants is that the manufacturer has a lot more to consider than just engine longevity. In fact, engine longevity is at the bottom of the engine oil priority list when the engineers decide which is best to recommend.
As long as the engineer can guarantee that the engine lives beyond the warranty period (which is not a difficult task now a days with the way engines are built you can pretty much run cooking oil in them and get 50k miles out of them), the actual longevity beyond that is not even in the equasion let alone top priority list when deriving the recommended oil. They consider things like CAFE standards, federally mandated Catalytic Converter warranties and survivability, fuel mileage concerns and most of all, which one of their own in house oils will fit all of the above. Clearly they want to make as much money on the "aftermarket" as possible so they will never recommend an oil that they don't make. It's also not very smart business to recommend an oil that will lend to a high percentage of catalyst failure before the federally mandated warranty is up. So if you break it down, the pecking order when deriving a manufacturer recommended oil is: What do we make that will... Will it meet the latest API standard? Is it possible to reduce the additives enough to maintain Catalyst operation beyond 100k miles but still insure engine life beyond the much smaller 50k mile warranty? Will it give us the best possible rated fuel economy? AND that's about where the manufacturers cares end when it comes to recommending engine oil...
There is NO law that limits the amount of zinc additives in motor oil. In order to meet the standard qualifications of API SM, the oil must come below a certain level of zinc and other additives. It's that simple and has nothing to do with law. So, if the oil company wants the oil to be able to wear the API SM approved label, it must conform to those specific standards. At the same time, in order to ever be one of many "manufacturer recommended" oils they must wear the API label. So, clearly the oil company is going to meet the standards in an effort to sell more oil... That certainly doesn't mean it’s the best standard or the best lubricent for a long lasting high performance engine.
UnleashedBeast knows what he's talking about and has obviously done a lot of research in this field. You don't have to agree with him, but you should absolutely respect and consider his insight. Everything he's saying is objective and can be backed by fact, not just opinion. Just do some research yourself and you'll see.
It is absurd for anybody to dispute that additional Zinc/Phosphorus additive is not warranted, Especially during BREAK-IN. PERIOD. SIMPLE AS THAT.
Why do you think they sell it under Racing "Engine & Break-In?
That is as arbitrary as saying that Amsoil Oil Filters are not justified as well over Ford Filters. They are far superior to Fords. Additional protection!! In addition these Zinc/Phosphorus additive are very expensive as well FYI. Another reason why there is a limit. If you want more pay for it!
Red Line Racing Oil has no less than 2200ppm of zinc and phosphorus present for antiwear.
So if I add one bottle of Red Line Zinc & Phosphorus addittive to (7) Quarts of Red Line Oil I will have Phosphorus at 1307 ppm & Zinc 1577 ppm.
DEAD ON FOR A DAILY DRIVER