2013 GT now takes 5w50??

[JAJ]

I like this version of the discussion a lot better - good points made all around.

As seank said, the only people with the actual data to support or deny the longevity concern are Ford's engineers. All we know is that Ford engines, all of them, will meet Ford's "longevity goals" with the lubricants that Ford specifies in the manual. We don't know what the goals are or whether there is a statistically meaningful difference between various viscosities; we just know that the recommendation "meets or exceeds requirements".

The only solid information we have from Ford regarding their test results is that when the engine is intended to be used in a way that will generate high heat for extended periods of time (Boss 302, GT500, GT Track Package), Ford recommends a specific synthetic 5w-50 product that rapidly shears to the same viscosity as most xw-40 oils. If you intend to use your engine where it will get hot for a long period of time, presumably a thicker oil would be a good idea. But that's a presumption - Ford hasn't said anything about it themselves, nor will they.

As for why Ford wants you to use 5w-50 from Motorcraft, I don't think it has anything to do with needing a 50 weight oil, considering that it really acts like a 40 weight in any case. I think the reason they do it is to make it harder for their dealers to use the wrong oil by accident. We all know that, deserved or not, the reputation of dealership staff is that the only reason they have elbows is to keep their knuckles from dragging on the ground. So Ford came up with a brilliantly simple three-step formula: regular engines get -20, diesel trucks get -40 and sports cars get -50. Hopefully the gorillas can keep three numbers straight. Presumably (there's that word again) if you can count past ten without taking your shoes and socks off, you're welcome to use a shear-resistant xw-40 oil for those hot days at the track.

 

[UnleashedBeast]

I think the reason they do it is to make it harder for their dealers to use the wrong oil by accident.

That is one good reason for the recommendation. The engine would see more damage from being road raced with 5W-20, than using 5W-50 constantly on the street. Motorcraft 5W-50 actually acts more like a 20W-50 above 32*F when it's fresh. After it shears, it's more like a light 10W-40.

Ford has a corner market on 5W-50 that actually carries the Ford approval certification. They are the only ones who have it. Castrol dropped the spec, more than likely due to a reformulation that contains higher levels of ZDDP than the Ford spec. allows. If Ford said, we recommend 10W-40 or 5W-40 for track use, their corner market sales would die. Everyone has those grades.

 

[cidsamuth]

That is one good reason for the recommendation. The engine would see more damage from being road raced with 5W-20, than using 5W-50 constantly on the street. Motorcraft 5W-50 actually acts more like a 20W-50 above 32*F when it's fresh. After it shears, it's more like a light 10W-40.

Ford has a corner market on 5W-50 that actually carries the Ford approval certification. They are the only ones who have it. Castrol dropped the spec, more than likely due to a reformulation that contains higher levels of ZDDP than the Ford spec. allows. If Ford said, we recommend 10W-40 or 5W-40 for track use, their corner market sales would die. Everyone has those grades.

Interesting, I didn't know that Ford is the only producer of 5w-50. You actually just gave support for why the mandate for 5w-20 could truly be mechanical; Ford would have financial incentitive to require 5w-50 in all Mustangs, but they don't.

 

[UnleashedBeast]

Interesting, I didn't know that Ford is the only producer of 5w-50. You actually just gave support for why the mandate for 5w-20 could truly be mechanical; Ford would have financial incentitive to require 5w-50 in all Mustangs, but they don't.

Ford sure had a lot of folks believing their GT500, Ford GT, or Boss 302 would fail without it.

You can get 5W-50 in Red Line, Castrol, Pennzoil, and Mobil 1. None of these are actually Ford certified.

I will also add that Pennzoil and Mobil 1 5W-50 are hard to find, Red Line must be ordered.

 

[M3_Dust]

Ford sure had a lot of folks believing their GT500, Ford GT, or Boss 302 would fail without it.

You can get 5W-50 in Red Line, Castrol, Pennzoil, and Mobil 1. None of these are actually Ford certified.

I will also add that Pennzoil and Mobil 1 5W-50 are hard to find, Red Line must be ordered.

I like the idea of using an oil with the viscosity recommended by the manufacturer, is there any reason not to use the Castrol or Redline 5W-50?

 

[UnleashedBeast]

I like the idea of using an oil with the viscosity recommended by the manufacturer, is there any reason not to use the Castrol or Redline 5W-50?

Castrol shears less than Motorcraft, Red Line shears less than Castrol.

The problem with Red Line, it's thick. You can really tell the engine doesn't start as easily in cooler weather. Oil pressure is also through the roof with all 5W-50 formulations, until they shear.

Ford recommends this for extreme use, not street driving. A gentlemen by the name of Dr. Haas did extensive testing on his Ferrari that was spec'd for 10W-60 on the race track. However, he found driving the car like a grandma, 5W-20 was acceptable.

Another factor many people don't realize, more viscous fluids run hotter. Hotter fluids are less viscous than spec, depending on temperatures.

Less viscous fluids run cooler, and retain a bit more viscosity than spec, depending on temperature.

 

[JAJ]

This issue of Motorcraft 5w-50 being the only oil that meets Ford WSS-M2C931-B spec is an interesting one in light of Magnuson Moss. If I remember correctly, Magnuson Moss specifies that if a manufacturer requires a specific product and your warranty will be at risk if you don't use it, then they must provide it for free for the life of the warranty.

That's why BMW M engines that take TWS 10w-60 get free oil changes for the first four years after sale - BMW is serious about using that specific oil, so they comply with Magnuson Moss and customers get it free until the warranty is up.

So, if Motorcraft 5w-50 is the only oil that meets WSS-M2C931-B, then does Ford have to provide it for free for the life of the warranty? Or are they in the awkward position of "recommending" it knowing that they can't deny warranty if you don't use it.

 

[ViciousJay]

This issue of Motorcraft 5w-50 being the only oil that meets Ford WSS-M2C931-B spec is an interesting one in light of Magnuson Moss. If I remember correctly, Magnuson Moss specifies that if a manufacturer requires a specific product and your warranty will be at risk if you don't use it, then they must provide it for free for the life of the warranty.

That's why BMW M engines that take TWS 10w-60 get free oil changes for the first four years after sale - BMW is serious about using that specific oil, so they comply with Magnuson Moss and customers get it free until the warranty is up.

So, if Motorcraft 5w-50 is the only oil that meets WSS-M2C931-B, then does Ford have to provide it for free for the life of the warranty? Or are they in the awkward position of "recommending" it knowing that they can't deny warranty if you don't use it.

i think we should get the owner of the site and say ford to look into this!!!

 

[TheVikingRL]

Some great information in this thread. Does anybody know if Ford uses a break-in additive in the oil from the factory and if so, what is the recommended interval for the first oil change?

 

[UnleashedBeast]

This issue of Motorcraft 5w-50 being the only oil that meets Ford WSS-M2C931-B spec is an interesting one in light of Magnuson Moss. If I remember correctly, Magnuson Moss specifies that if a manufacturer requires a specific product and your warranty will be at risk if you don't use it, then they must provide it for free for the life of the warranty.

That's why BMW M engines that take TWS 10w-60 get free oil changes for the first four years after sale - BMW is serious about using that specific oil, so they comply with Magnuson Moss and customers get it free until the warranty is up.

So, if Motorcraft 5w-50 is the only oil that meets WSS-M2C931-B, then does Ford have to provide it for free for the life of the warranty? Or are they in the awkward position of "recommending" it knowing that they can't deny warranty if you don't use it.

They only "recommend" it, knowing if they void a warranty for not using it, they could be sued by the owner of the vehicle. It's smoke and Mirrors with Motorcraft 5W-50, what started my testing path to show it was a crap spec, showing better choices were available.

 

[cidsamuth]

Some great information in this thread. Does anybody know if Ford uses a break-in additive in the oil from the factory and if so, what is the recommended interval for the first oil change?

We're getting off subject here but . . .

There were all kinds of rumors that an additive was used to keep the "ignitor" tick out, thus the reason why folks got the noise after the first oil change. Some even speculated that Ford addressing this tick was a reason for one of the holds in production in mid-2010.

When I went through the tick thing, my dealer service advisor said he heard the same rumor (not through the internet). He seemed fairly confident in it, as we were only about 40 minutes from the factory and he got the info from "engineers."

Also, they originally put an additive in my oil when I first complained about the tick. It took the noise away immediately, but always came back when the oil got changed out. To me, this would support the theory.

Regardless, it wouldn't stop me from changing my oil when I wanted, if I were you.

 

[UnleashedBeast]

To this day, I still have no idea what the additive is Ford used to quiet the tick.

Was it excessive amounts of Moly, ZDDP, or esters? Wish I knew.

 

[ViciousJay]

i waited till 5k to change my oil the first time, i dont have a the dreaded tick :shrug:

 

[TheVikingRL]

Sorry, I knew it was a little off topic but with this group of "lubrication guru's" I had to ask. Again, this is awesome thread. Lots of good info!

 

[cidsamuth]

To this day, I still have no idea what the additive is Ford used to quiet the tick.

Was it excessive amounts of Moly, ZDDP, or esters? Wish I knew.

The engineer who gave it to my Service Adviser wouldn't tell him what was in it. I got to see the bottle -- a black unmarked bottle, with no labels. Had what looked like black shoe polish in it. Some folks theorized it was graphite.

That was in the fall of 2010. Later, folks got something called XL-17 from Ford and used it with mixed results. Honestly, I'm only about 50% sure it was the same stuff they put in my engine.

 

[M3_Dust]

I want to do a break-in oil change on my car at no more than 1500 miles. I really want to make sure I am choosing the correct synthetic that I will use for the life of the engine. I'm currently leaning towards royal purple 5w-40 as being the closest equivalent to the factory oil in viscosity, I don't want to deal with oil pressure levels getting too high due to an oil that stays too thick when hot.

 

[TVSCobra]

Oil viscosity selection depends on more than just the engine, but how the engine will be used. For grocery getting, and obviously CAFE law standards, a 5W-20 grade could be used. For extended session road racing, obviously the lubricant is going to achieve a much higher heat threshold. This would require a more viscous lubricant.

5W-50 Motorcraft and Castrol Castrol rapidly shear to a lighter grade, so the option to use a superior true synthetic 10W-40 for road racing application is a far wiser selection.

5W-20 Motorcraft (and other brands) are less viscous that what I prefer when aggressive street driving and drag racing events occur. This is where 30 grade lubricants are the choice for me. A true synthetic 10W-30 has the cold flow performance of a lesser base stock 5W-30, yet far superior shear resistance. This means that it will be superior for use in street cars used above 32*F all year long (southern cars). For northern cars driven in harsh winter climates, started multiple times a day, I recommend a robust true synthetic 0W-30.

For the record, Mobil 1, Castrol and Pennzoil have been using highly refined petroleum in their mixtures for years. When I say "true synthetic", the main brand big oil bottles on the shelf are NOT what I'm referring to.

For you computer programmers out there. . .

int Mobile 1, Castrol, Pennzoil != 100% true synthetic *obviously this would create an error, but you get the point*

You took the words out of my mouth. Well said!!!:beer::beer::beer:
:rockon::rockon::rockon::thumbsup:

 

[stewarts2008]

so the question is..... for a track pack with a blower in a 5w kind of climate.......

5w50 motorcraft, or 5w40 synthetic like amsoil.... right?

 

[scotmach]

so the question is..... for a track pack with a blower in a 5w kind of climate.......

5w50 motorcraft, or 5w40 synthetic like amsoil.... right?

Amsoil 10w-30 is what UnleashedBeast will recommend I'm sure.

 

[UnleashedBeast]

so the question is..... for a track pack with a blower in a 5w kind of climate.......

5w50 motorcraft, or 5w40 synthetic like amsoil.... right?

Never Motorcraft 5W-50, it's useless IMO. So many better choices are out there. This should sum it up nicely.

This recommendation list will cover all seasons for your car, from the harshest winter days, to the hottest summer days. The best part is, the oil only has to be changed once a year, or 15,000 miles, whichever occur first.

8 quart fill (Coyote GT)
8.5 quart fill (Track Pack GT & Boss 302)

Amsoil ALM 5W-20 – If your car is 100% stock, never raced, driven like a grandma, no matter the climate….use this.

Amsoil AZO 0W-30 - If your car is driven year round up north in very cold temperatures and is lightly modded....use this.

Amsoil ATM 10W-30 - If your car is moderate to heavily modded, used in hotter climate states, or never driven during winter months in northern states...use this.

Amsoil AMO 10W-40 - If you have a Boss 302 or Track Pack GT, and you road race your car....use this.

*Boss 302 and Track Pack GT owners - If you do not road race your car, use Amsoil ATM 10W-30. 5W-50 spec for this engine is overkill and results in excessive oil pressure.*

Amsoil RD30 10W-30 - If your car is modded to the max and producing HP beyond 600 rwhp, especially E85 fuel engines...use this.

Amsoil EaO17 - This oil filter outperforms any filter on the market. Royal Purple oil filter is the same and is an acceptable substitute.

If you have the Getrag MT-82 6 speed manual

Amsoil Synchromesh - requires 3 quarts. Use this if you road race your car, or you are experiencing grinding.

If you have the 6R80 automatic 6 speed, this stuff will make it survive the worst torture.

Amsoil LV Synthetic ATF - 12 quart total fill

and for the rear differential

Amsoil 75W-140 - requires 2 quarts

Don't forget the friction modifier

Amsoil Slip Lock - use all four ounces

*Boss 302 and Track Pack GT owners. If you have the Torsen differential in your car, do not use friction modifier.*

Bottle Hand Pump - makes pumping new fluid into the transmission and rear differential very easy.

UOA testing kit - we have dedicated UOA threads to compare everyone's reports.

UOA thread

Last thing, do NOT pay retail for Amsoil...EVER! This is my advice to you on how to by all Amsoil products at dealer cost (saves 25% off retail).

Preferred Customer

If you ever have any questions, I'm always here to answer them. Just send me a PM.

Troy