2013 vs 2015 and newer torque numbers comparison

[Cain96]

I'm looking for help and information concerning torque numbers for my 2013 Mustang. It is modified, and I will the engine mods below. I'm trying to figure out what supporting mods will add more off the line torque.... and torque in general. My car currently sits at just below 600rwhp along with just under 500lbs ft torque (488 I believe)... which equate to over 700 crank hp.. and around 580-590lbs of torque (yes it's an auto.. no I don't want to hear your opinion about the drive train)

I have seen very similar builds for the 2013-14 Mustangs compared to the 2015 and newer.. and I've noticed in many of the builds... the torque numbers are much higher in the newer cars. It just seems that with the custom tune and supporting mods I have, it should be higher.

1. What mods could I add to mine to increase those numbers?
2. What is so different about the newer 5.0 engine in the 2015 and newer that's allowing it to hit those higher numbers?
3. Will a SC build vs a twin turbo show me those kinds of differentiation in numbers?

Supporting Mods:
2011-14 Roush Stage 3 TVS Tuner kit w/CAI with custom tune.
Roush GT Spine supercharger 82mm pulley
Cobra Lightning 90mm idler pulley
Ford Racing 47lb Injectors
40 amp kenne bell boost pump
Reische 170 degree thermostat
Coyote cylinder head cooling kit
3.73 Ford racing gears

 

[ZYBORG]

1. Dont get caught up in the dyno numbers game...

2. Dyno numbers game, do not get caught up...

If the car is performing well, enjoy your car.

 

[Cain96]

Absolutely zero of the 26 words (not counting the numbers) you used answered any of the questions I had asked. If I would have asked "should I get caught up by numbers" ... then your short answers would have been sufficient.

"Don't get caught up in the numbers" is a cop out... and a very weak one. No person in the history of modding cars has ever not cared about numbers to some degree.... or there would never be a modding community.

That's like going to a bench press contest and saying "don't worry about how much you lift or how many reps... its how much you enjoy lifting".... its just plain dumb.

 

[ZYBORG]

Thats a great analogy man, so Ill put it to you like this....

There are usually 2 type of car guys, the "power lifter" and the "MMA fighter"....

Some guys are happy as the power lifter, flexing muscles, looking strong, feeling unbeatable because of how much weight they can move.

Then there is the mma fighter, they do not give a shit about how much weight they can move. What they do worry about is maximizing their performance and coming out on top when it counts, on a battle.

You can keep on training to win the bench press contest if you want. But dont come back here acting surprised when a smaller/weaker guy takes your cookie where it counts, cause he knew how to fight.

 

[Cain96]

Your reply was spot on for the analogy used.... however there was a key component missing: It still didn't address any of the questions I had asked.

1. Your response makes the assumption that all I care about are numbers.
2. If I'm not supposed to get caught up in numbers... then why is your quarter mile time / 60 ft launch numbers so important? With regards to your "winning vs looking good" Seems kind of hypocritical to tell me to only focus on what numbers YOU think are important....(last time I checked, those numbers I'm not supposed to care about play a key role in those important numbers that you care about.. aka "winning"
2. Wanting to know the intricacies of how and where the numbers come from was what I was looking for... so that I may adjust my build accordingly.
3. Also, the assumption that a person can't look good and still perform well (based on the analogy) is a very limited thought process.

The sad thing is this will probably be the only responses I get on this topic. Zyborg... I bid you adieu... The great number of assumptions made on your part were most entertaining.

 

[ZYBORG]

Dynos are a tuning tool. Not an actual gauge that measures performance. If it were, there would be no drag strip passes and / or street races and every one would just compete using a dyno sheet.

But to answer your question, if you want more power go e85. Will give you a big bump in power and have the car run safer.

Best of luck.

 

[Cain96]

Thank you for the answer.... ( I mean that)... I was looking into upgrading my injectors and utilize a half e85/ 93 octane setup.. either ID 96lb ones... or Deatschwerks

 

[ZYBORG]

No problem. IDs all the way...

 

[Riddick]

Your set up with the TVS should yield tons of power down low. I am not concerned with your actual numbers because they vary so much from dyno to dyno. What I am concerned with is the tune on your car. Do you know how much timing you are running or what your Air Fuel is under WOT? Are you running a tune from Roush or was it custom tuned? Whats your exhaust set up? If you are running the stock exhaust you are leaving a ton of horsepower and torque on the table.

Being that you are Auto and running 3:73s I am surprised you are not asking how to make less power down low. I imagine you have a hard time hooking up. Looking forward to hearing about your set up so we can get you pointed in the right direction.

E85 will definitely yield more power but I would suggest doing exhaust mods first if you havent done so yet. I dont think your current fuel system could support E85 at the power you are making, you may have to upgrade your pumps and what not.

 

[Secondo]

Great question! See attached pdf from Ford explaining the differences between the Gen 1 5.0 (2011-2014) and Gen 2 5.0 (2015-2017). A major improvement includes stronger rods for higher horsepower potential.

 

[Jumpmaster2015]

1. Dont get caught up in the dyno numbers game...

2. Dyno numbers game, do not get caught up...

If the car is performing well, enjoy your car.

This is amazing advice from very knowledgeable and trusted member. OP you are coming off as arrogant, and so far are kind of a prick. I realize you are new, but you need to calm down a bit with your attitude.

 

[StalkerStang]

15+ also have slightly higher flowing heads and I think a tad more aggressive cam profiles.

They also have intake runner control to help with low speed power, but that should not affect peak numbers.

 

[Cain96]

This is amazing advice from very knowledgeable and trusted member. OP you are coming off as arrogant, and so far are kind of a prick. I realize you are new, but you need to calm down a bit with your attitude.

I did come off a bit harsh.. and I apologize for that. However, I do have to admit, that nothing irritates me more , than when people ask specific questions... and get answers like that. People's opinions on what I or anyone else should or should not pay attention to was not the point. I simply wanted to know if and what can improve certain numbers... IE I'm looking for specific answers... To help start a dialogue to better educate myself and possibly someone else... not a philosophical debate on what or what isn't important to someone.

I fully admit I should not have came back in that way.... so for that I'm sorry.

 

[Cain96]

Your set up with the TVS should yield tons of power down low. I am not concerned with your actual numbers because they vary so much from dyno to dyno. What I am concerned with is the tune on your car. Do you know how much timing you are running or what your Air Fuel is under WOT? Are you running a tune from Roush or was it custom tuned? Whats your exhaust set up? If you are running the stock exhaust you are leaving a ton of horsepower and torque on the table.

Being that you are Auto and running 3:73s I am surprised you are not asking how to make less power down low. I imagine you have a hard time hooking up. Looking forward to hearing about your set up so we can get you pointed in the right direction.

E85 will definitely yield more power but I would suggest doing exhaust mods first if you havent done so yet. I dont think your current fuel system could support E85 at the power you are making, you may have to upgrade your pumps and what not.

The tune is a custom Brenspeed tune designed under their "710R corvette killer" package. I will have to load my tuner up and see what the timing and fuel is set for.... I don't know off hand.

My exhaust setup is a 1 7/8 Kooks long tuber header... with an offroad H pipe... stock catback... with magnaflow competition quad exhaust.

You're absolutely right about the current fuel system. I currently have ford racing 47lb injectors.. with and upgraded fuel assembly that came with the tuner kit.... so I'm pretty maxed out there. I'm planning on going forward with the ID injectors... a cobra jet throttle body... upgraded plugs..etc

The grand plan was to upgrade the block before I do anything else. I'm currently researching on which company I would like to use for that... because if I'm having the whole long block disassembled... then I will most likely do EVERYTHING under the hood at once.. so its more of a saving up money game at that point.

 

[nate714]

Kinda seems like OP got jumped on for asking legitimate questions. Even if most of that info is readily available and considered common knowledge here, the power potential gap between 13 and 15 motors under boost is a little mind boggling considering the factory power gap is only 15hp, 10 tq.

OP, the other responses were correct, 1/4 mile time slips tell a better story than any dynograph. 11-14 GT start running into potential for failures beyond 600 wheel. Also this community doesn't bash automatics, it's been established here that the 6R80 auto trans handles big power very well compared to the MT-82.

I'm not a tuner but from what I've observed e85 is the easiest way to make more power, but beyond 600 whp you might want to consider beefing up the "weak links" like Oil pump gears.

 

[Riddick]

Thanks for providing the information you did. I forgot to ask but are you running the closed Roush Air Box or do you have an open filter? Reason I ask is the Roush box is restrictive compared to open air filters.

Your set up sounds great, you picked the right parts!! Brenspeed is a very respected tuner, did you do any datalogging with them or did they simply send you a tune to load? I guess you could of taken them the car and they could have custom tuned it?? If they simply sent you a tune to load I guarantee its very conservative and you are leaving 20-40 hp on the table.

I would highly recommend reaching out to a well known tuner such as Shaun from AED Racing and have him review some datalogs. Its very easy to do and he can provide you with all the information on how to do this. He can review everything for you and will let you know if its worth your time to have him retune it. He knows his stuff when it comes to these cars especially the Auto ones.

When it comes to choosing your engine builder you have tons to choose from. I am not sure what your goals are but if you only want 700-800hp you may want to consider purchasing a 2015 short block. They have stronger rods than our cars do and have been pushed well beyond the 800hp mark, I think these go for roughly 3k. From the sounds of it you want to go big though, just do some reading on here..... there are some great builders out there. You can start with MPR, Livernois, L&M, and MMR.

 

[Cain96]

Thanks for providing the information you did. I forgot to ask but are you running the closed Roush Air Box or do you have an open filter? Reason I ask is the Roush box is restrictive compared to open air filters.

Your set up sounds great, you picked the right parts!! Brenspeed is a very respected tuner, did you do any datalogging with them or did they simply send you a tune to load? I guess you could of taken them the car and they could have custom tuned it?? If they simply sent you a tune to load I guarantee its very conservative and you are leaving 20-40 hp on the table.

I would highly recommend reaching out to a well known tuner such as Shaun from AED Racing and have him review some datalogs. Its very easy to do and he can provide you with all the information on how to do this. He can review everything for you and will let you know if its worth your time to have him retune it. He knows his stuff when it comes to these cars especially the Auto ones.

When it comes to choosing your engine builder you have tons to choose from. I am not sure what your goals are but if you only want 700-800hp you may want to consider purchasing a 2015 short block. They have stronger rods than our cars do and have been pushed well beyond the 800hp mark, I think these go for roughly 3k. From the sounds of it you want to go big though, just do some reading on here..... there are some great builders out there. You can start with MPR, Livernois, L&M, and MMR.

The car was taken to them and they custom tuned it. I believe the Roush CAI is a closed system. TBH, if I had to do over again, I would have had the block beefed up first, than I would have added the blower and all the components, but I was learning as I went.... and jumped the gun a bit. The tune from Brenspeed is pretty aggressive, I don't think there is much else to do with that. The trick is going to be getting the upgraded block, either from Brenspeed themselves, or through Livernois. Brenspeed has done right by me, but I've heard great things about Livernois's block... I have had thoughts of getting their race series block, but I'm not sure the 8k is worth it... and the hp possibilities are way higher than I originally specced for (was going to go as close to 1k as possible). Who knows however

 

[scotmach]

Being that you are Auto and running 3:73s I am surprised you are not asking how to make less power down low. I imagine you have a hard time hooking up.

I would also question this running such a steep gear with the auto/blower setup.

 

[debit_free_2010]

"Auto and running 3:73s"

Torque read's lower due to the 1.14 6R 4th gear and 3.73's.

Install 3.31's and call it good.

 

[GNBRETT]

I was wanting more TQ myself with my previous TVS set-up in my 2012. to be honest I jus got bored with the lack of TQ it made having Turbo cars my whole life.

if u want a specific answer on how to make more TQ? go Turbo..... ur blower will never make the TQ ur looking for on pump gas unless u go E85 and even then TQ won't be anywhere near wat it is with a Turbo.

and ur comparing a 2013 car that weighs 250-300 lbs less then a 2015 car so its not quite apples to apples. the TQ numbers between cars has everything to do with mods not motor configuration.

but if u wanna add more TQ to ur current set-up u will need some good long tubes and I wud dump them 3.73's being an A6

and the more obvious solution is a Circle D converter. that wud be my first mod!