5.0 voodoo engine?

[americansteel]

Wait for what? There isn't going to be an NA Trinity 5.8, it's not happening.

how do you know? if I remember correctly I think you were the one back several months that stated the S550 wasn't going to have IRS. yet it looks like it has IRS to me? you don't know anything about the new mustang other than what ford has given to us so far. you know nothing. you get your "rumors" from magazine articles that are constantly wrong, you write comments saying there wont be a 5.8 in the upcoming special edition models, yet you don't know anything about them! clearly I must know what I am talking about because I stated 2 comments about the GT500 disappearing and the 5.0 will return in other threads and yet they were proven right. months before any information was given about the S550. you don't know if am telling the truth or a lie yet I love how pansy's like you want to insult me as if im getting offended by some really weak insults.
watch in the upcoming months of 2014 you will see more information about the GT mustang the mach1 and new SVT product, and of course I will be proven right. lets see believe someone that works for ford motor company apart of the global vehicle development team? or believe a stupid magazine? I know which one im picking.

and to be straight up and honest I don't care if you think im lying, however im given some information that im allowed to post up on this forum and this forum only, yet I will not give all information that was given to me about the new "mach1" I also have a picture in my e-mail. not bad looking might I add. old school muscle look to it but im not posting it on this forum.

 

[RTD]

how do you know? if I remember correctly I think you were the one back several months that stated the S550 wasn't going to have IRS. yet it looks like it has IRS to me?

Wasn't me.

you don't know anything about the new mustang other than what ford has given to us so far. you know nothing.

<piles of bullshit snipped>

That's exactly right. I don't know anything other than what ford has said. And if I'm speculating about something I come out and say that, I don't make up bullshit about just getting off the phone with my machinist whose brother's neighbor's cousin is a ford executive with inside information.

 

[jes_csx]

Amazing how some peoples speculation trumps other peoples inside info.
We shall see...

 

[Voltwings]

I've made several valid points regarding the mathematics of making horsepower and Americansteel has yet to get lippy with me. I'm not one to be an internet warrior, but ill gladly put someone in their place who is trying to be, this guys a tool.

 

[ExTurbo]

i dont pretend to know whats going on, but being a reasonably smart guy id imagine the trinity motor wont make it to the S550, new car, new dimensions...the hood is lower on this car and clearance might start to become an issue. Packaging options expand with turbo's Id say based on what ford is doing with the rest of the lineup, turbocharging some form of that motor is highly likely.

I sell fords (no that doesnt give me the inside scoop any more than any of you gentlemen/ladies) however my new product trainer has mentioned seeing a twin turbo V8 in testing. how reliable that information is, you guys will have to decide for yourself. details are none and no i have no proof, but i dont think hed have a reason to lie about what he sees when hes in Michigan.

As for the mach 1, i think a slight bump in displacement, revised intake manifold for high rpm operation, (seriously doubt if they just slap on a CJ,) and forged internals. not to mention new cam profiles to take advantage of the extra RPM and displacement. I dont think ford really needs to do anything else to a 5.0 to make it competitive with other "track" rats like the Z/28. If they can keep the weight down that is. Id also like to see something comparable to GMs magnetic ride shocks, but maybe thats asking too much.

Really they can go a million different directions, we will have to wait and see unfortunately

 

[1wild-horse]

It's funny that with all the bickering in here that no one's even brought up the fact that any info and the cars we are seeing is ALL PRE-PRODUCTION stuff. You know how much shit can change between now and next year when these cars actually start rolling off the line? Just might make whatever some magazine or monkey's uncle said pretty obsolete.

 

[4VFTW]

The only factory gas motor I know of that came with a longer stroke was a Vortec 8100. Even all your old BB motors don't have a stroke as long as a 5.4.

useless trivia of the day... the 455 Olds and Pontiac motors had a 4.210 and 4.250 stroke. Some of the old motors from the pre WWII era had ridiculously long strokes.

 

[freakshow12]

Just got off my sesame street phone with Grover and he said that big bird is now a janitor at ford in powertrain engineering. He said that ford is putting the 500 inch boss top fuel engine in the new car. It will be called the super duper cobra jet...

 

[Jroc]

useless trivia of the day... the 455 Olds and Pontiac motors had a 4.210 and 4.250 stroke. Some of the old motors from the pre WWII era had ridiculously long strokes.

Okay.

They also had bores well over 4" and not ones at 3.552", and 3.680". They also are know to be inferior performance and RPM motors than the BBC's of the day. They were just large/torquey motors.

Lets look at the stroke that some of the popular performance BB's of the day had.

-Ford 427 FE - 3.784".
-Ford 428 FE - 3.980".(inferior performance motor to the 427, and more of a stump puller)
-Ford 429 385 motor - 3.590".
-Ford 460 385 motor - 3.850".
-Chevy 454 - 4.0".
-Chevy 396/427 - 3.760".
-Hemi 426 - 3.750".
-Chrysler 440 - 3.750".

Don't get me wrong a 5.4/5.8 can be build to make huge power. I'm not denying that. I would love to go built with my 5.4. They make very broad power in general, but they are not the best application for the Mustang. A boost 4.6 has the potential to make all the power you'll ever me in a Mustang, and a new 5.0 is noticeably better than a old 4.6. You should now that the new 5.0 is a great little motor, and it weighs less, is shorter and more compact, handles high RPM's, etc much better than a 5.4 based motor will. You just adding weight and complexity trying to fit a 5.4/5.8 in the front of the car. A factory built/boosted 5.0 has huge potential for the new Mustang.

 

[4VFTW]

Okay.

They also had bores well over 4" and not ones at 3.552", and 3.680". They also are know to be inferior performance and RPM motors than the BBC's of the day. They were just large/torquey motors.

Lets look at the stroke that some of the popular performance BB's of the day had.

-Ford 427 FE - 3.784".
-Ford 428 FE - 3.980".(inferior performance motor to the 427, and more of a stump puller)
-Ford 429 385 motor - 3.590".
-Ford 460 385 motor - 3.850".
-Chevy 454 - 4.0".
-Chevy 396/427 - 3.760".
-Hemi 426 - 3.750".
-Chrysler 440 - 3.750".

Don't get me wrong a 5.4/5.8 can be build to make huge power. I'm not denying that. I would love to go built with my 5.4. They make very broad power in general, but they are not the best application for the Mustang. A boost 4.6 has the potential to make all the power you'll ever me in a Mustang, and a new 5.0 is noticeably better than a old 4.6. You should now that the new 5.0 is a great little motor, and it weighs less, is shorter and more compact, handles high RPM's, etc much better than a 5.4 based motor will. You just adding weight and complexity trying to fit a 5.4/5.8 in the front of the car. A factory built/boosted 5.0 has huge potential for the new Mustang.

I wasn't proclaiming the superiority of the 455's I was just givint examples of motors with over 4" stroke because you said you couldnt recall any.

but truth be told in stock trim those 455's would take a dump all over all but 3 of those motors and would be an even match for any of them.

 

[lsittingbull]

Okay.

They also had bores well over 4" and not ones at 3.552", and 3.680". They also are know to be inferior performance and RPM motors than the BBC's of the day. They were just large/torquey motors.

Lets look at the stroke that some of the popular performance BB's of the day had.

-Ford 427 FE - 3.784".
-Ford 428 FE - 3.980".(inferior performance motor to the 427, and more of a stump puller)
-Ford 429 385 motor - 3.590".
-Ford 460 385 motor - 3.850".
-Chevy 454 - 4.0".
-Chevy 396/427 - 3.760".
-Hemi 426 - 3.750".
-Chrysler 440 - 3.750".

Don't get me wrong a 5.4/5.8 can be build to make huge power. I'm not denying that. I would love to go built with my 5.4. They make very broad power in general, but they are not the best application for the Mustang. A boost 4.6 has the potential to make all the power you'll ever me in a Mustang, and a new 5.0 is noticeably better than a old 4.6. You should now that the new 5.0 is a great little motor, and it weighs less, is shorter and more compact, handles high RPM's, etc much better than a 5.4 based motor will. You just adding weight and complexity trying to fit a 5.4/5.8 in the front of the car. A factory built/boosted 5.0 has huge potential for the new Mustang.

Ford could design the coyote heads to fit the 5.8 without to much weight added. N/A ( with coyote type heads)It would be great option for the Gt500 or whatever ford comes up with. By adding the supercharger or turbo to the coyote you add weight. But I would not matter to me either way. I just love BIG Horse power.

 

[Jroc]

Ford could design the coyote heads to fit the 5.8 without to much weight added. N/A ( with coyote type heads)It would be great option for the Gt500 or whatever ford comes up with. By adding the supercharger or turbo to the coyote you add weight. But I would not matter to me either way. I just love BIG Horse power.

I think they would need to make a block to work with the heads instead of trying to mod Coyote heads to work on a 5.4. If they'll work on a 5.4 then they'll work on a 4.6. Coyote heads use different coolant passages and things like that. Also a Coyote has a different firing order than a 4.6/5.4 based Modular. Besides 00 Cobra R/FGT/GT500 heads already flow about as well as the small Coyote head.

Your kind of missing my point. I'm not knocking more displacement. What I'm saying is a 5.4/5.8's extra displacement over the smaller Modulars is in the wrong place for a performance car motor. The extra displacement comes from almost an extra 5/8 length in the motors stroke over the 4.6's. A Modular has never had a problem with too little a stroke. Even a 4.6 has a decent enough stroke. A 4.6's stroke(3.543") is even longer than a 351's stroke(3.500) and a old Windsor based 302 only had a 3.000" stroke. Hell a Coyotes stroke(3.649") is longer than all your factory performance LS motors stroke other than a LS7's.(it has a 4" stroke) A 5.4's stroke is freakishly long for such a small bore.(4.165" stroke with a 3.552" stroke) This has even cause piston slap issues on 5.4's because of the long stroke/short shirts. A 5.4's rods are pretty close to contacting the small bores also. Generally manufactors will build a bigger bore/smaller stroke motor or either a bore/stroke that's similar to one another. The length of a 5.4's stroke compared to it's bore is freakish for a performance motor and it makes for much higher piston speeds at any given RPM than a 4.6/5.0 shorter stroke.

A 5.4 was developed to be a truck motor. In general when you think of a long stroke motor you think of more of a lowend stump puller, and a short stroke motor you think of more of a topend, high RPM motor. A new Boss 6.2 has a much more ideal bore/stroke(and bore spacing) than a Modular. If Ford would develop the 6.2 into a performance motor it would be one awesome motor. The 4.000+ bore is nice.

I'm not knocking having some decent stroke. I'd rather build a 351 than a old 302 SBF, but the 5.4's is really just to much for a good performance motor. The 5.4 makes good low-end power and that's exactly what Ford intended when they designed it, and not to be some powerhouse motor at high engine speeds where it will live happy all day at 7K+ RPM's.

 

[FortLewisCobra]

I think they would need to make a block to work with the heads instead of trying to mod Coyote heads to work on a 5.4. If they'll work on a 5.4 then they'll work on a 4.6. Coyote heads use different coolant passages and things like that. Also a Coyote has a different firing order than a 4.6/5.4 based Modular. Besides 00 Cobra R/FGT/GT500 heads already flow about as well as the small Coyote head.

Your kind of missing my point. I'm not knocking more displacement. What I'm saying is a 5.4/5.8's extra displacement over the smaller Modulars is in the wrong place for a performance car motor. The extra displacement comes from almost an extra 5/8 length in the motors stroke over the 4.6's. A Modular has never had a problem with too little a stroke. Even a 4.6 has a decent enough stroke. A 4.6's stroke(3.543") is even longer than a 351's stroke(3.500) and a old Windsor based 302 only had a 3.000" stroke. Hell a Coyotes stroke(3.649") is longer than all your factory performance LS motors stroke other than a LS7's.(it has a 4" stroke) A 5.4's stroke is freakishly long for such a small bore.(4.165" stroke with a 3.552" stroke) This has even cause piston slap issues on 5.4's because of the long stroke/short shirts. A 5.4's rods are pretty close to contacting the small bores also. Generally manufactors will build a bigger bore/smaller stroke motor or either a bore/stroke that's similar to one another. The length of a 5.4's stroke compared to it's bore is freakish for a performance motor and it makes for much higher piston speeds at any given RPM than a 4.6/5.0 shorter stroke.

A 5.4 was developed to be a truck motor. In general when you think of a long stroke motor you think of more of a lowend stump puller, and a short stroke motor you think of more of a topend, high RPM motor. A new Boss 6.2 has a much more ideal bore/stroke(and bore spacing) than a Modular. If Ford would develop the 6.2 into a performance motor it would be one awesome motor. The 4.000+ bore is nice.

I'm not knocking having some decent stroke. I'd rather build a 351 than a old 302 SBF, but the 5.4's is really just to much for a good performance motor. The 5.4 makes good low-end power and that's exactly what Ford intended when they designed it, and not to be some powerhouse motor at high engine speeds where it will live happy all day at 7K+ RPM's.

It would be nice if they went to a 6.2 based motor. It would make all of this way easier.

 

[Jroc]

It would be nice if they went to a 6.2 based motor. It would make all of this way easier.

The problem would be squeezing it into the Mustang engine bay. It's noticeably longer than a Modular.

 

[FortLewisCobra]

The problem would be squeezing it into the Mustang engine bay. It's noticeably longer than a Modular.

Well we know it fits in the S197, but that's a stripped down drag car. I dont know if the S550's bay is shorter, or if its practical in a production car. The 6.2 swaps are getting more popular so it would be interesting if ford does something more with that motor. If not I don't see it lasting much longer in the F150.

 

[Randy Fontenot]

That would be interesting a mustang with a 6.2L.
Wish ford would built a Boss 351 or a Boss 429 again.
maybe a Boss 351 with a 6.2L or even a 5.8L natural asperiated with a Shaker Hood & all Blacked out Hood [Wow]!!!!
But not likely to happen.