GT500 Will Kill GT350 Prices, No?

[Osiris]

Lmao..This Kaneda guy thinks he knows it all....Hilarious.

I don't even know if it's worth responding to it at this point, but fine...What this clueless individual keeps forgetting is the fact that the car is an officially numbered, Factory Ford-Shelby collaboration with registry and documentation. It will ALWAYS hold better value than other Mustangs.

The FPC engine is exclusive to the car and universally praised. It's one of the highest HP/liter engines in production still and being the first production American V8 to have such, this car is destined to be a classic.

NO, the GT500 won't go on sale for the same price as the GT350, that's probably this biggest, most asinine comment here. You have a car that's supposed to make 200 more HP MINIMUM than the 350 but you're going to sell it for the same price? Didn't you learn anything from 2012-2013? The GT500 STARTED higher that very next year, and even though the increase was about 120hp, it's about a $1500 jump but it's the same model!!

The GT500 is NOT the same model as the GT350. Do you understand what that means? The original GT350 was a track focused car. Slightly more massaged in power from other Mustangs but lighter, better suspension, brakes. The GT500 IS the GT500 solely based on power. ALL were big blocks. And yes, the GT500 costed more. I mean, the mere FACT that Ford is making a GT500 now instead of a more powerful GT350 is their way of saying "We are about to charge you more."

So no...It WON'T go on sale for the same price, People who want the 350 will still pay well to get one, and people who want the 500, especially in the beginning, are going to pay through the NOSE for one (unless of course, that "special buddy" they say the have at the dealership cuts them a break, right? lol)

 

[Osiris]

Ok so will do mustang's. Boss 302 started at $42,000 five years later clean sub 40k mile cars go for high 20's. Hell i only got 25k for my 302 on trade in with 40k miles but thats trade in. They lost 1/3rd of their value in 5 years once the new car dropped. You take the GT350 starting price mulitply by .66 you get mid to high 30's depending on year. 10 years from now it will probably be low 30's where S197 GT500's are and it will most likely stay there.

The Boss didn't do as well as was hoped for a couple of reasons.

Despite the fact that this car is probably the pinnacle of handling for SRA cars, the world had moved on, and the car wasn't as good as IRS cars in regards to ride quality vs performance, which is why the GT350 came around in the first place, it was Ford's second stab at an original mission that only the S550 platform was going to offer. Bringing back the GT350 did two things, one - Kept the Boss name valuable (you'll see years from now, values will come back) by not calling an all-around better car the same thing, and Ford got to charge more due to the name.

The original Boss cars gained fame through racing. People like Bondurant, Hill and Parnelli Jones securing that car's status as one of the most coveted Mustangs in history. The new cars never gained that level of fame. Boss cars are still highly capable, and at their values now are extremely great cars to buy. They come with more trade offs though, like a de-contented interior that a lot of people just didn't want. Again, another lesson Ford learned and changed in the GT350 (this is why the tech model exists in the first place).

 

[Drewsky65]

The 2013 GT500 did not kill the the 2013 Boss 302 prices. Two different purposes with those cars

this this this this ^^^^

 

[DeathvalleySC]

Ok so will do mustang's. Boss 302 started at $42,000 five years later clean sub 40k mile cars go for high 20's. Hell i only got 25k for my 302 on trade in with 40k miles but thats trade in. They lost 1/3rd of their value in 5 years once the new car dropped. You take the GT350 starting price mulitply by .66 you get mid to high 30's depending on year. 10 years from now it will probably be low 30's where S197 GT500's are and it will most likely stay there.

No offense but the Boss 302 isn’t in the same league for resale as the Shelby’s. The 2013 and 2014 GT500’s still have a good resale value in the mid to upper $40k’s some are still in the $50k’s depending on the miles. I believe it’s due to the power increase from the previous years (662 hp) The GT350 will keep its value due to the motor that it has. There is no other mustang with a 5.2 flat plane crank V8 that revs over 8k RPM. The motor will be iconic. And it won’t be used in any other platforms. Yes it has its issues but it is unique.


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[Corbic]

Did you mean 100%?

MSRP was 30s.

I wouldn't want to go near a $15,000 terminator. lololol

In 2003 the MSRP was $38,995.

Adjusted for inflation, that is $53,993.80

Average Cobra seems to go for $20,000 with an NADA value of $14,500.

So they are at 37% of their retail value today. For a 16 year old mass produced car, that is damn good.

Anyone know the number of GT350s being built? I can't find a list but it sounds like around 6,500 a year with 900 being Type-Rs. That would indicate a total production run of 26,000 cars.

By comparison - (Coupes only)

SVT Cobra - 13,162
Bad GT500 - 17,669
Good GT500 - 11,624
Awesome GT500 - 8,893
GT350 - 24,000 (est)
GT350R - 4,000 (est)

 

[Gr8fulmtnbiker]

Anyone know the number of GT350s being built? I can't find a list but it sounds like around 6,500 a year with 900 being Type-Rs. That would indicate a total production run of 26,000 cars.

i was able to find this for 2016 Final 2016 GT350 / R Production Data - 2015+ S550 Mustang Forum (GT, GT350, GT500, Mach 1, Ecoboost) - Mustang6G.com

 

[Corbic]

i was able to find this for 2016 Final 2016 GT350 / R Production Data - 2015+ S550 Mustang Forum (GT, GT350, GT500, Mach 1, Ecoboost) - Mustang6G.com

Yeah, that is what I saw too.

~5,500 GT350 and 900 GT350R a year.

I suspect the GT350's will devalue much faster then the R because of the production numbers.

 

[Gr8fulmtnbiker]

I suspect the GT350's will devalue much faster then the R because of the production numbers.

I think so too.


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[Osiris]

Of course the Rs will devalue slower..lol

Kinda goes without saying....

Look at total production of Mustang vs the Shelby/SVT models...based on percentage which one is lowest? (I really don't know)

Remember the Mustang is a global car now, and built in greater numbers now than before. I imagine the Shelby production vs regular Mustangs is still quite low.

You can see it on the street honestly....Even at the Mid America SHELBY meet the number of 350s present was lower than that of regular OR other non-Shelby Mustangs

It's still a rare car and will still hold better value than any non-Shelby product.

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[ANGREY]

Of course the Rs will devalue slower..lol

Kinda goes without saying....

Look at total production of Mustang vs the Shelby/SVT models...based on percentage which one is lowest? (I really don't know)

Remember the Mustang is a global car now, and built in greater numbers now than before. I imagine the Shelby production vs regular Mustangs is still quite low.

You can see it on the street honestly....Even at the Mid America SHELBY meet the number of 350s present was lower than that of regular OR other non-Shelby Mustangs

It's still a rare car and will still hold better value than any non-Shelby product.

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Supply and demand. You're speaking to supply. The real issue is demand. The regular 350 is going to be "supported" by the GTPP2 pricing. If the PP2 is almost a 350 (without the brand notoriety, the uniqueness of the voodoo, the wider stance and body upgrades, the slightly better brakes, etc) then demand for the 350 will remain as long as there's value at that particular price point.

Once something BETTER is offered at a similar price point, THAT effects demand and less demand, just like too much supply, drives costs lower.

You can make a zillion units of a product and it won't devalue as long as there's demand (which is primarily driven by VALUE).

Conversely, you could make a one off custom My Little Pony themed Dodge Caravan and it might be the ONLY in the world of it's kind but if it doesn't offer value, then despite it's low supply, it's price will plummet.

In summary, low supply isn't a substitute for demand. And similarly, high supply isn't necessarily a killer either.....as long as there's adequate consumers in numbers (and that comes from value).

As soon as the 500 hits the streets, we'll see. It will ALL depend on it's price point.

If the PP2 were offered with a factory roots blower from Ford with a warranty and in the same price point as the 350, don't you think it would DESTROY 350 sales? Of course it would, despite the 350 having wider body, snake emblems, a FPC, etc, etc. Because MOST consumers are driven by VALUE (i.e. what they get for the money the spend).

Of course there's a few "purists" who see the uniqueness of the 350 and what a tender flower it is and how special it is and the nostalgia of it's return and how it's a balanced track focused cars....blah, blah, blah. Those consumers are the exception, not the norm.

 

[Corbic]

You can make a zillion units of a product and it won't devalue as long as there's demand (which is primarily driven by VALUE).

We call that "Rolex". There are a billion Submariners out there - but the suckers don't come down in price much because they far out strip the demand.

 

[Osiris]

So explain Roush then.

The car (stage 3) is more powerful and faster in a straight line, the braking/handling is exceptional, and dare I say capable of turning it into a driver's race, yet...They can't EVER sell at their retail price and far often go unsold at dealers after a year or TWO and come with 5 figure discounts.

It's a fact. My brother is a Roush guy. Both of his cars were bought slightly used at prices FAR less than they were new:

2014 'Vert - 84K sticker - bought for 50K with 3k miles in 2016 - It's a 1 of 1 as equipped/color
2015 coupe - 74k sticker - bought for 38K with 11k miles about 8 months ago - it's a 1 of 1 as equipped/color

It sucks, because they're really awesome cars. But banks won't lend against them, insurance companies will only recognize them as regular cars unless you insure the adds as an extra rider, and they don't hold their value anywhere near those cars that say "Shelby" on the name, with the exception of maybe one, the P51 cars.

As for Shelbys...

'16 tech 350s with 20k+ miles are about 42-44k, most hover around 48-50k

Retail price of those was what, 58-60k?

My '16 tech stickered at $58,465. I bought it on 5/2017 for 52K with about 3800 miles on it. I don't consider ADMs as a part of the price because paying them is entirely optional. You either wait, or pay it. You can see what I chose. I wasn't going to pay (at the time) 10K (or) more for a 2017 simply to get the owner's kit and the coolers. Speaking of ADMs...How many PP2 owners are paying them? Probably none.


Blowers don't mean much because anyone can put one on any car. There are well built foxes that can outrun a GT350 on a track (seen it, just this past weekend). Slapping a blower on the PP2 isn't going to make any Shelby less valuable. The name will still carry value even if a faster car is built, and likely will, with the next generation Mustang. In regards to the GT500, perhaps the question is better asked of previous generation GT500 owners...Where do they see their values once this new car is on the road? Lebanon Ford will sell you a 700 HP Mustang GT for what, $38k? Why hasn't that tanked GT350 values? Or even GT500 values? Maybe there are more "purists" out there than you think?

The PP2 cars are about 54K loaded. Far too close to a GT350 for what you're getting, and next year, that car will be worth somewhere in the high 30's. Even if you went with a base PP2 you'd be better off with a '16 Tech (guess what, the PP2 doesn't come with coolers either hahaha) The PP2 exists because the Shelby is going away after '19, and it doesn't cost Ford much of anything to toss together some optional go-fast bits that can be added on per order.

The new GT500 is fishing for different game...My theory. It'll do what the 350 can, and more. But not likely everything, as well as the 350 can. I think the 350 will be better at smaller, tighter courses. Again, just my theory...and if the new car lowers the value, so be it. I sure didn't buy the car expecting an investment right now...But if I keep it 30 years, you can bet I'll make some money off of it...

 

[Osiris]

Ohh, and BTW...You CAN have your dealer install a blower when you buy your car, likely roll it in with your loan and even get it covered by warranty. This has been offered for several years now...Doesn't seem to have affected those GT350 values, has it?

 

[DeathvalleySC]

A Roush is a mustang Gt with ugly body mods and a supercharger. That’s why they don’t hold a value, if I’m not mistaken they are titled and insured as mustang gts which are mass produced. The Shelby Gt350 prices are still close to what the MSRP was before all the dealer mark ups. I bought my 2016 used for around $47k 3 months ago. The MSRP on the sticker was around $52k. It got an award for the best resale value. You look on KBB and the resale values are still above $50k.


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[Osiris]

A Roush is a mustang Gt with ugly body mods and a supercharger. That’s why they don’t hold a value, if I’m not mistaken they are titled and insured as mustang gts which are mass produced. The Shelby Gt350 prices are still close to what the MSRP was before all the dealer mark ups. I bought my 2016 used for around $47k 3 months ago. The MSRP on the sticker was around $52k. It got an award for the best resale value. You look on KBB and the resale values are still above $50k.


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Yep. Kinda my point, but the Roush cars are pretty cool, and a bit more than a blower and a body kit...

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[DeathvalleySC]

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[DeathvalleySC]

Try to look up the value of a Roush. You won’t find it. It goes from mustang gt to Shelby gt350.


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[AustinSN]

The bad and good GT500 made me lol

 

[Osiris]

Try to look up the value of a Roush. You won’t find it. It goes from mustang gt to Shelby gt350.


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Yeah...I know. Spent about three days back and forth with my bank on one...lol

Looked at a '14 Stage 3 with the Aluminator motor before I bought the 350. The car had 65 miles on it. Was kept in a collection. Couldn't get my bank to value it properly, even though I had them down to about 44k (car stickered for somewhere in the upper 60s when new).
Again, it would have been faster (675 hp from that motor, and being fully forged capable of a LOT more) but it had the suspension and brake bits to make it a capable track car.

In the end I couldn't justify the value. It wasn't going to stay at 65 miles long, a GT500 was far better in value prop. and I wanted the S550 platform in the end.

Sweet car though. That aluminator is a bad ass motor...

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[DeathvalleySC]

I love the motor in the gt350. It’s 526 hp naturally aspirated. You can’t compare a motified mustang gt or Roush to a stock gt350. For $60k I can take my gt350 and put a whipped on it. Still would be less than $50k and over 800 hp at the wheels.


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