High boost TVS guys in here please

[Soap]

Hoping to generate some discussion about IAT2's with TVS guys running 19-22+ psi. I'd like to hear what kind of IAT2's you guys are seeing during a 1/4 mi pass or if you just do freeway pulls. I'm assuming everyone has an aftermarket heat exchanger but it might be helpful if you mention what type of IC pump you are running and if you have a trunk mounted tank or still have stock style under the hood.

I'm starting to think these blowers are more of a heat pump than people lead on. I know the sales pitch to me was that the blower "runs very cool".

Thanks.

--Joe

 

[GodStang]

I would talk to Senkak. Doubt anyone has been down the track with a TVS more than him. I don't want to start a blower war thread as we have so many of them and the Vendors on this site push the TVS as it is the "latest greatest", but according to Eaton depending on what TVS you have it is rated for only around 14-16psi efficiency so guys running 19-22+psi are well out of its intended use and as you say it would be a "heat pump". The intended design was for stock boost levels 8-16psi and for those levels I don't know if there is a better blower.

Goes back to the old saying. Select a blower for your use not what people are advertising.

Hoping to generate some discussion about IAT2's with TVS guys running 19-22+ psi. I'd like to hear what kind of IAT2's you guys are seeing during a 1/4 mi pass or if you just do freeway pulls. I'm assuming everyone has an aftermarket heat exchanger but it might be helpful if you mention what type of IC pump you are running and if you have a trunk mounted tank or still have stock style under the hood.

I'm starting to think these blowers are more of a heat pump than people lead on. I know the sales pitch to me was that the blower "runs very cool".

Thanks.

--Joe

 

[Soap]

Thanks for the info Josh (is that right?). I'm by no means trying to start a debate either, just looking for IAT2 info from TVS guys.

I agree that most are operating the TVS above it's intended use......but look how many people run a ported Eaton with a 2.93/4# combo, that is also way beyond the intended efficiency range. I just want to hear some real world numbers from people on exactly how hot their setup is getting because that is what we all want to combat.

--Joe

 

[94slowbra1]

Also if we are looking for real world info I'd like to know what either iat1 or outside air temp is. That would be beneficial to know accurate info

 

[cj428mach]

I would talk to Senkak. Doubt anyone has been down the track with a TVS more than him. I don't want to start a blower war thread as we have so many of them and the Vendors on this site push the TVS as it is the "latest greatest", but according to Eaton depending on what TVS you have it is rated for only around 14-16psi efficiency so guys running 19-22+psi are well out of its intended use and as you say it would be a "heat pump". The intended design was for stock boost levels 8-16psi and for those levels I don't know if there is a better blower.

Goes back to the old saying. Select a blower for your use not what people are advertising.

Doesn't the displacement/flow matter when saying a blowers efficiency range in psi?

A 2013 gt500 runs 15 psi and is a 5.8l. If you take 5.8l/4.6l = 1.26 and you multiply that by 15 psi it = approximately 19 psi.

Meaning that on a 4.6l at the same blower speed as the 5.8l you'll be making 19psi assuming similar cylinder head flow, exhaust...etc.

I think you need to look at blower speed.

 

[Black02GT]

Doesn't the displacement/flow matter when saying a blowers efficiency range in psi?

A 2013 gt500 runs 15 psi and is a 5.8l. If you take 5.8l/4.6l = 1.26 and you multiply that by 15 psi it = approximately 19 psi.

Meaning that on a 4.6l at the same blower speed as the 5.8l you'll be making 19psi assuming similar cylinder head flow, exhaust...etc.

I think you need to look at blower speed.

I was thinking this as well since most of the engine that run the TVS are larger (ZR1 Etc). Most compressor maps are pressure ratio vs flow, here is the TVS (Magnuson from a ZR1 but close):

 

[Soap]

So if you are running a 3.0" upper and 4# lower that is over 18500 blower rpm at 6500 engine rpm. According to that map that would be WAY out of the efficiency range for the 2.3 TVS.......no wonder it is running so hot.

--Joe

 

[Black02GT]

So if you are running a 3.0" upper and 4# lower that is over 18500 blower rpm at 6500 engine rpm. According to that map that would be WAY out of the efficiency range for the 2.3 TVS.......no wonder it is running so hot.

--Joe

Yeah, I got similar number with a stock lower, 2.8 and a 7K limit. Interesting thread about TVS vs Whipple:

http://www.musclecarmodfather.com/forum/showthread.php?80-Twin-Screw-vs-TVS-Blower-efficiency

 

[whitedevil95]

Good read!

 

[GodStang]

yes it depends on blower speed. The OP said 19-22psi. For the 03-04 Cobra the 2.8” pulley and stock lower Gives you 19psi and at 6500 rpms you are looking at 17,400rpms which is at very high end of efficiency and more heat will be created. The 2.6” is around 21psi and 18750 rpms at 6500 engine rpms and well out of efficiency range. So for the range the OP asks for mathematically it is out side of Eaton’s recommendation. Please check my match because it is late for me!

Remember just because you are in the recommended blower rpms does not mean you are not creating a lot of heat. Learned this the hard way in years past.

Doesn't the displacement/flow matter when saying a blowers efficiency range in psi?

A 2013 gt500 runs 15 psi and is a 5.8l. If you take 5.8l/4.6l = 1.26 and you multiply that by 15 psi it = approximately 19 psi.

Meaning that on a 4.6l at the same blower speed as the 5.8l you'll be making 19psi assuming similar cylinder head flow, exhaust...etc.

I think you need to look at blower speed.

 

[Soap]

All these people on this forum who are running a TVS and not one person has posted any data

--Joe

 

[c6zhombre]

All these people on this forum who are running a TVS and not one person has posted any data

--Joe

LOL

Not a tvs, but my gen 2 2.3 whipple at 22psi sees mid 140s IAT2 after a 3-4 highway pull. Now the IAT2s can creep up into the 150s if I get stuck in traffic in very hot summer months(IAT1s 130) and there's no air flow over the HE. It will come back down 130s with air flow. This is running E85, no killer chiller.

 

[94slowbra1]

here are my numbers from my last pull on 93. outside air was around 86. iat1 was 120 and iat 2 peaked at 144 during the pull and 148 after letting off. came back down quickly after driving for a min.
stock i/c pump, stock intercooler, afco dual pass h/e with a moroso coolant tank

 

[Black02GT]

here are my numbers from my last pull on 93. outside air was around 86. iat1 was 120 and iat 2 peaked at 144 during the pull and 148 after letting off. came back down quickly after driving for a min.
stock i/c pump, stock intercooler, afco dual pass h/e with a moroso coolant tank

How much boost? Since your on 93 I'd guess <20?

I wonder what the max boost someone has run with a TVS.

 

[94slowbra1]

sorry about that, 19lbs. 3.2 upper 4lb lower

 

[c6zhombre]

I wonder what the max boost someone has run with a TVS.

probably cj, pretty sure he's spinning the tvs about as hard as it can be spun. I'd be interested to see his IAT2s. But keep in mind the IAT1s.....because he's in an area not near as humid and hot as I am in Houston or 94slowbra is in New Orleans

 

[94slowbra1]

exactly my thoughts. outside air temp and humidity probably plays a huge role in iat2. 55 and low humidity probably lowers my iat2.
im switching to e85 here soon so hopefully i wont lose as much timing on the top end. also will be doing justin wheelers i/c flow mods too. if everything ive read about his stuff is true it should help alot

 

[c6zhombre]

exactly my thoughts. outside air temp and humidity probably plays a huge role in iat2. 55 and low humidity probably lowers my iat2.
im switching to e85 here soon so hopefully i wont lose as much timing on the top end. also will be doing justin wheelers i/c flow mods too. if everything ive read about his stuff is true it should help alot

You really shouldn't lose any timing at all, even with your current ic/he setup.....not unless you start doing back to back to back to back repeated rapings. Just for a street cruiser I doubt you will go over 150 IAT2s unless you are in brutal summer heat traffic jam, like 115 heat indices and no air flow. I don't think your tune will cut timing until you reach 175 IAT2 on the E85 tune

But that i/c flow mod looks great and obviously the cooler the better regardless of whether you reach the tunes IAT2 point to yank timing or not.

 

[cj428mach]

It gets to over 100+ degrees here with lots of humidity during the summer.

I know in summer time while cruising down the highway 120 degree IAT2s are common with temps in the 90's. I don't drag race and usually just burst through a gear or two so I'm not a good example to give what IAT2's are for a long sustained pull. I've messaged my buddy to comment on this thread as he has a tvs 3.0 upper 4lb lower and has done some drag racing this summer.

Malcolmv8 is running a 4lb lower with a 2.8 upper and knows a lot about IAT2's so he's another good source. I know Malcolm had insane heat from his 2.9 Crusher which I believed would produce less heat because its a more efficient blower when spun faster. You also hear of 3.4 and 4.0 guys complaining of insane heat which has kind of lead me to believe that all the blowers are going to make a ton of heat. Its just part of it.

 

[Black02GT]

It gets to over 100+ degrees here with lots of humidity during the summer.

I know in summer time while cruising down the highway 120 degree IAT2s are common with temps in the 90's. I don't drag race and usually just burst through a gear or two so I'm not a good example to give what IAT2's are for a long sustained pull. I've messaged my buddy to comment on this thread as he has a tvs 3.0 upper 4lb lower and has done some drag racing this summer.

Malcolmv8 is running a 4lb lower with a 2.8 upper and knows a lot about IAT2's so he's another good source. I know Malcolm had insane heat from his 2.9 Crusher which I believed would produce less heat because its a more efficient blower when spun faster. You also hear of 3.4 and 4.0 guys complaining of insane heat which has kind of lead me to believe that all the blowers are going to make a ton of heat. Its just part of it.

No matter how efficient the blower is, temperature increases with respect to pressure. With the larger blowers even if your in it's peak efficiency range at 25+ psi it's still going to produce a lot of heat due to basic physics (the ideal gas law). This is when how much heat energy you can sink off before the air enters the engine is key.

Malcolm has some serious cooling equipment too. It's impressive how hard he's spinning that blower with the compression he has. Really shows how crazy detonation resistant E85 is.

I'd like to run in the 20-22 range with my new setup, not sure the pulley combo in this case. Think I'm going to run a 2.8 upper and see what that nets with this head/cam setup and go from there. Maybe a 2.8/4# will be 21-22 range but after looking at the compressor map (probably should have BEFORE I bought the blower) that pretty far out of it's happy place.