Just installed Lund flex tune. Only 17hp..

[PatDietrich]

Problem according to them is the car is not allowing for full timing advance. Stays at 26 up top instead if 28-30. Says should be 15hp more than it is. Also believes because there is no catch can I'm probably getting oil in cylinders causing it to lower octane. However, my car uses no oil at all. Has 10k miles. Never had to add. Any other ideas? E85 tested 88% by the way.
Making 486 sae. 497 STD Dynojet Dyno.

 

[gt347mustang]

Problem according to them is the car is not allowing for full timing advance. Stays at 26 up top instead if 28-30. Says should be 15hp more than it is. Also believes because there is no catch can I'm probably getting oil in cylinders causing it to lower octane. However, my car uses no oil at all. Has 10k miles. Never had to add. Any other ideas? E85 tested 88% by the way.
Making 486 sae. 497 STD Dynojet Dyno.

Do you not believe what Lund is telling you?

 

[PatDietrich]

Not that I don't beleive, it's a guess on their part. So maybe someone here had similar issue and resolved it with catch can or another way. Looking for input.

 

[jvandy50]

this voodoo setup catches quite a bit more than my coyote did. might not be a bad idea to look into a setup

 

[PatDietrich]

Which side is generally the one you put a catch can on?

 

[Russo]

passenger side... UPR has a dual valve if you want to pull from both sides though

 

[PatDietrich]

Thank you

 

[1 Alibi 2]

" Also believes because there is no catch can I'm probably getting oil in cylinders causing it to lower octane. However, my car uses no oil at all. "
.
Put an air/oil separator on my 17 F150 5.0......amazed @ how much it catches for a non boosted engine !!!

 

[PatDietrich]

Added the catch can today. However as I learn more about the datalogs I've taken, the pulls on the road did not pull timing or hold it back to 26 like the Dyno pulls. Timing was at 31. Lund says easy 15hp loss from this on Dyno.
Anyone have experience with this? How much is 5-6 degrees worth ?

 

[s1ten]

Any updates?

 

[CobraBob]

Yeah, it would be good to update this thread for those in the future who reference it with a similar issue. I sent a PM to the OP.

 

[ANGREY]

Interesting, so Lund is basically saying that the knock sensors are limiting timing and that with proper fuel it should hold more advance timing all the way through?

I agree, 15 HP on an E85 optimized tune is not what I would expect. I've seen guys running headers/intake and E85 tuned out well into the 500s (540+) to the rears.

Try the catch can. Also, make sure that when you fill up with E85 that you dump the first gallon into a container (if you're getting it from the pump). Just like with 93 being "contaminated" with 89, the pump shuts off and there's a good amount of fuel left in the line up to the nozzle for the next guy. So unless you fuel up behind someone who's purchasing E85, a good bit of 89 or whatever the guy before you bought is going in your tank.

 

[Voltwings]

Problem according to them is the car is not allowing for full timing advance. Stays at 26 up top instead if 28-30. Says should be 15hp more than it is. Also believes because there is no catch can I'm probably getting oil in cylinders causing it to lower octane. However, my car uses no oil at all. Has 10k miles. Never had to add. Any other ideas? E85 tested 88% by the way.
Making 486 sae. 497 STD Dynojet Dyno.

Oil does reduce the effective octane of fuel, even in small amounts.

Added the catch can today. However as I learn more about the datalogs I've taken, the pulls on the road did not pull timing or hold it back to 26 like the Dyno pulls. Timing was at 31. Lund says easy 15hp loss from this on Dyno.
Anyone have experience with this? How much is 5-6 degrees worth ?

I have seen this on boosted cars i have tuned, but on a naturally aspirated car its a bit odd... What i have seen is that the dyno does not always load the engine / vehicle properly to hit the correct portions of the tables in the tune.

For example, i tuned a car (different platform) to 28 psi on the street, but when we went to the dyno, the dyno was only producing enough load for the vehicle to target about 25 psi in the tune. What could be happening here, is the vehicle is not getting the required load from the dyno to hit the targets needed for the additional timing.

Can you post those logs you've been taking?

 

[ANGREY]

Oil does reduce the effective octane of fuel, even in small amounts.




I have seen this on boosted cars i have tuned, but on a naturally aspirated car its a bit odd... What i have seen is that the dyno does not always load the engine / vehicle properly to hit the correct portions of the tables in the tune.

For example, i tuned a car (different platform) to 28 psi on the street, but when we went to the dyno, the dyno was only producing enough load for the vehicle to target about 25 psi in the tune. What could be happening here, is the vehicle is not getting the required load from the dyno to hit the targets needed for the additional timing.

Can you post those logs you've been taking?

I would also think that if it were "holding back" due to the knock sensor it would do it on the street where you're getting full load vs on the dyno.

You're never going to get as much backpressure/engine load as you do when you're in 5th gear low rpms, uphill at WOT. (all that combined with high temps is the most dangerous conditions for predetonation and knock).

Weird. Normally it's dyno tune = fine, road test = issues and not vice versa.

 

[shelbygt500_897hp]

I had the JLT catch cans on boths sides for my 07 GT500 that dynoed at 664 rwhp. I had not planned to put catch cans on my normally aspirated GT350, but in reading this thread that has just changed !!!

don

 

[PatDietrich]

Catch can istalled and does catch oil. The car on Dyno stopped pulling timing in 4th. Staying at 30-31. Sae in 4th was 486.
5th still pulled timing and best was 499std. E85 was 91%. I quit worrying about it. Took car to dragstrip and ran 1 pass and spun all of first like I was on water half of second so lost half of an 1/8mile, shows on video how much distance I lost, only 89mph in 1/8 and still went 120.19 1/4. 12.97et. Pulls hard.

 

[PatDietrich]

Interesting, so Lund is basically saying that the knock sensors are limiting timing and that with proper fuel it should hold more advance timing all the way through?

I agree, 15 HP on an E85 optimized tune is not what I would expect. I've seen guys running headers/intake and E85 tuned out well into the 500s (540+) to the rears.

Try the catch can. Also, make sure that when you fill up with E85 that you dump the first gallon into a container (if you're getting it from the pump). Just like with 93 being "contaminated" with 89, the pump shuts off and there's a good amount of fuel left in the line up to the nozzle for the next guy. So unless you fuel up behind someone who's purchasing E85, a good bit of 89 or whatever the guy before you bought is going in your tank.

Good to know. Thank you

 

[CobraBob]

Catch can istalled and does catch oil. The car on Dyno stopped pulling timing in 4th. Staying at 30-31. Sae in 4th was 486.
5th still pulled timing and best was 499std. E85 was 91%. I quit worrying about it. Took car to dragstrip and ran 1 pass and spun all of first like I was on water half of second so lost half of an 1/8mile, shows on video how much distance I lost, only 89mph in 1/8 and still went 120.19 1/4. 12.97et. Pulls hard.

Thanks for updating your thread, Pat.

 

[gimmie11s]

Catch can istalled and does catch oil. The car on Dyno stopped pulling timing in 4th. Staying at 30-31. Sae in 4th was 486.
5th still pulled timing and best was 499std. E85 was 91%. I quit worrying about it. Took car to dragstrip and ran 1 pass and spun all of first like I was on water half of second so lost half of an 1/8mile, shows on video how much distance I lost, only 89mph in 1/8 and still went 120.19 1/4. 12.97et. Pulls hard.

30+ mph out the back on an NA car is HUGE.

With traction and a better 1/8 i dont see why it wouldn't go 124-125 mph.

She's making plenty of HP in my opinion.

 

[PatDietrich]

That's why I'm not worried so much as to what the Dyno shows. I've beat one hellcat on a roll. stayed right beside one and before tune a friend of mine did a roll and on a solid start he put about 3 on me to 140. His ran 128 mph and da was 2900ft. This car seems to run awesome. I get a chance if nobody Minds I can post a couple rolls I've done .