Knock issue with low timing, is it fuel related? Am I running too much power not to change fuel

[jamyzd39]

So my mods are as follows, 2014 Phase 3 upgrade including CAI, Fuel pump voltage regulator, (648rwhp), 582 torque, Kooks LT headers with off road H pipe, Vossen CV3's, ID1000's, Steeda Heat Exchanger, BMR LCA's,relocation brackets, adjustable Panhard bar, Rear sway bar, Steeda Aluminumdriveshaft, X-brace, Differential cover, torque box brace/frame rails, Shelby trans cooler, Mcleod RST clutch/lightweight steel flywheel w/SS clutch line, RP fluids, whiteline transmission bushing,MGW race spec short shifter,Ford racing twin 65mm throttle body, Pro Dyno tuned

I am having a surging issue. It seems tuner is having a problem narrowing it down. They did a compression test and cylinder balance test and no issues shown. I didn't have issues until upgrading my Throttle body. So far they have tried, plugs, O2 sensors, different TB, a few different tunes. I data logged and sent to AED and Shaun wouldn't tune due to the fact it had major knock activity and low timing in combination. However, all test are showing normal. They are guessing my issue might be a false knock from poor fuel. I run 93 normally from Shell.

Do you guys think I need to upgrade to use a return style fuel setup? Switch to E85? Anyone know how much a different fuel system would cost??? Is there recommendations? From what I read it seems Fore is the better option? I don't know much about cars, so any info would help.
I have seem some systems from beefcake and lethal that seem to be quite expensive, does anyone know estimate on install??

Thanks for any advice guys

 

[MastaAce03]

If it’s knock from poor quality fuel, that is very real knock that will hurt your motor if you’re beating on it. It could be false knock from your exhaust tapping on something underneath. Triple check your exhaust and make sure you have good clearances.


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[jamyzd39]

If it’s knock from poor quality fuel, that is very real knock that will hurt your motor if you’re beating on it. It could be false knock from your exhaust tapping on something underneath. Triple check your exhaust and make sure you have good clearances.


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The knock is detected in the Data logs along with low timing, not a noise per say. The knock you are referring to I am guessing is more so a ticking or knocking noise itself? Or can loose headers or exhaust actually cause a false knock to show up in data logs?

 

[MastaAce03]

Your exhaust tapping on something will absolutely show on your data logs. I’ve had the same issue and it was my exhaust. Even an exhaust leak can show up as knock on your logs.

I’m surprised Shaun at AED didn’t have you check your exhaust. He actually made a video of this exact issue and where to look for known contact points on your exhaust.



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[valanahara]

I had issues with knock and low timing in Oklahoma due to our poor gas quality. To verify this I had the exhaust examined to make sure it wasn't false knock, then I added a couple cans of Torco and the knock got better. I then filled her up with VP 101 race fuel and had no knock at all. So, I switched to E85 and have had no issues ever since. Have you tried adding Torco/101 yet to see if it helps?

 

[jamyzd39]

Thanks for guidance, no I have not tried torco yet, thanks for advice. I think my tuner did a compression test which was good and maybe a cylinder balance test. He had to run some gas out of it before adding a can of race fuel and then he would try it again. I have not heard in a few days.

Question about E85 though. What kind of set up you running? I have the Roush BAP, which I think only comes on at WOT. Would I need to run a different BAP, like JMS or VMP? It seems like from what I read, converting to a return fuel style system is best, but cost is high for me at the moment. I’ve done some research on E85 but probably need to do much more....you happy with it?

 

[valanahara]

That's good. A test with higher octane will definitely help pin-point the issue. I wouldn't be surprised at all if it isn't a fuel quality issue considering the issues I had.

E85 is great, man. It's resistance to detonation, cooling qualities, and the price is tough to beat. I am running a Paxton 2200SL with 15 PSI. It made 837rwhp and wanted more... If you have E85 readily in your area, it's a no-brainer. I travel 2 hours to get it in gallons and fill up in my garage when I drive it throughout the week.

As far as your fuel system, you will definitely want to consider going to a return fuel system. I ran the Sai Li system for over a year with no issues. What injectors are you running? You'll want to consider 1050x if you haven't got them already. BAP I'm not 100% on it. I know that I had the JMS and only came on during WOT so that I was not overworking the pumps all the time.

 

[valanahara]

Missed you have the ID1000's. Should have no issues with those on E85. That's what I am using at my power. Return fuel systems like Sai Li's can be had for $950 I believe which is definitely worth it.

 

[jamyzd39]

Missed you have the ID1000's. Should have no issues with those on E85. That's what I am using at my power. Return fuel systems like Sai Li's can be had for $950 I believe which is definitely worth it.

That’s not a bad price at all. I have seen everyone recommends the system made by Fore innovations which I think is quite a bit more. There is a few E85 stations close by to me as well. Do you mind me asking cost of install of the Sai system? Thanks for guidance bro, I appreciate it.

 

[Gruca]

Thanks for guidance, no I have not tried torco yet, thanks for advice. I think my tuner did a compression test which was good and maybe a cylinder balance test. He had to run some gas out of it before adding a can of race fuel and then he would try it again. I have not heard in a few days.

Question about E85 though. What kind of set up you running? I have the Roush BAP, which I think only comes on at WOT. Would I need to run a different BAP, like JMS or VMP? It seems like from what I read, converting to a return fuel style system is best, but cost is high for me at the moment. I’ve done some research on E85 but probably need to do much more....you happy with it?

In a supercharged car, I wouldn’t run E85 without a return fuel system. A common setup is to run 1050x injectors along with the return style fuel system. You remove the BAP completely.

If you run E85 on a stock fuel system with bigger injectors and a BAP, and the BAP fails, all that timing is going to grenade your engine.

 

[valanahara]

That’s not a bad price at all. I have seen everyone recommends the system made by Fore innovations which I think is quite a bit more. There is a few E85 stations close by to me as well. Do you mind me asking cost of install of the Sai system? Thanks for guidance bro, I appreciate it.

I only needed to upgrade to a Fore/465 fuel system once I pushed the Sai Li System past 837rwhp and it was fine there, just wanted added security. On e85 your car will make more power while resisting detonation and knock more. If it's close, no-brainer!

If I remember correctly, it cost me $300 or so to have a shop install it. Then re-tune. It's by far worth it thought!