Looks like people are selling their low mile 00R's. On Ebay right now is the 3rd R this month with under 200 miles. Wonder what these people are replacing these cars with. Maybe the much anticipated GT500???
Low Mile 00Rs
- Thread starter TFStang
- Start date
May just be cashing out.
I'm way past this category, took mine out this morning with 43,800 miles.
My 2 cents on the future collectability of R’s and cars in general
When we think about low volume collectable mustangs that exploded in value, we usually think about cars from the 60’s-70’s like the boss cars (mostly 429) and the Shelby’s. When people bought these cars, there was no collector car world and no one sane saw these cars being worth 50-100 times their msrp. You bought these cars to drive hard and use them up. Virtually no one cared about paperwork, original parts, or numbers matching. When the car was used up it went to the crusher. Why would you buy a car and put it away? Fast forward 30-40 years and there is little supply to meet the demand. Most of these cars had parts or engines changed, were wrecked or rotted away, and the handful of truly original cars command a massive premium. Lesson learned big time. Of the 657 R’s built how many are truly gone? How many don’t have their original engine or parts? I would say very very few. Cars in general just last longer as technology advances and just look how many super low mileage R’s come up for sale on regular basis. So, there is much more supply to keep up with demand. So many R’s have been put away and preserved with their parts and paperwork unlike the mustangs from long ago. I think the R’s will go up in value but I’m not as confident as the people who think these cars will see $250k or more. I think the 2000R getting to $100k alone is going to be a long road ahead.
I could be completely wrong but I think the collector car world will be changing in the next few decades with electric cars coming on strong and the millennial generation taking a different approach to cars, let me explain. Manual transmission cars are declining to automatics and some performance companies stopped making them all together. More young people can’t and or have no desire to learn to drive stick and it’s no secret that newer generations are more into electronics and computer controls. Not that long ago electric cars were just science projects that no one took seriously, they had no range, no performance, and they took forever to charge. Now they are developing at an exponential rate and some of these cars are crazy fast. Problem is they are still expensive and take time to charge. With the Tesla model 3 not far away at under $40k it will be on a lot of people’s radar unlike a $100k plus model S.
There was a recent discussion on the Viper forum about people not driving their cars to keep the value in them and one member had a really good point. He said we are just one major battery break through away from gas powered cars being obsolete. It’s a bit of a stretch but not totally unrealistic. A few days ago on autoline daily an Israeli company announced they have developed a battery that can be charged in 5 minutes and has a 300-mile range, and they expect to put it into production within 3 years. This tech wouldn’t become main stream overnight but I think it will be taking a larger market segment as time goes on. Gas powered cars aren’t going away anytime soon and they will still be collectable but I think there will be a softening of the market as time goes on due to both supply/demand and a different desire of a newer generation.
Low cost + good performance + minimal maintenance = strong market presence.
A hybrid mustang is already in the works and what happens to the mustang world when it beats the GT?
When we think about low volume collectable mustangs that exploded in value, we usually think about cars from the 60’s-70’s like the boss cars (mostly 429) and the Shelby’s. When people bought these cars, there was no collector car world and no one sane saw these cars being worth 50-100 times their msrp. You bought these cars to drive hard and use them up. Virtually no one cared about paperwork, original parts, or numbers matching. When the car was used up it went to the crusher. Why would you buy a car and put it away? Fast forward 30-40 years and there is little supply to meet the demand. Most of these cars had parts or engines changed, were wrecked or rotted away, and the handful of truly original cars command a massive premium. Lesson learned big time. Of the 657 R’s built how many are truly gone? How many don’t have their original engine or parts? I would say very very few. Cars in general just last longer as technology advances and just look how many super low mileage R’s come up for sale on regular basis. So, there is much more supply to keep up with demand. So many R’s have been put away and preserved with their parts and paperwork unlike the mustangs from long ago. I think the R’s will go up in value but I’m not as confident as the people who think these cars will see $250k or more. I think the 2000R getting to $100k alone is going to be a long road ahead.
I could be completely wrong but I think the collector car world will be changing in the next few decades with electric cars coming on strong and the millennial generation taking a different approach to cars, let me explain. Manual transmission cars are declining to automatics and some performance companies stopped making them all together. More young people can’t and or have no desire to learn to drive stick and it’s no secret that newer generations are more into electronics and computer controls. Not that long ago electric cars were just science projects that no one took seriously, they had no range, no performance, and they took forever to charge. Now they are developing at an exponential rate and some of these cars are crazy fast. Problem is they are still expensive and take time to charge. With the Tesla model 3 not far away at under $40k it will be on a lot of people’s radar unlike a $100k plus model S.
There was a recent discussion on the Viper forum about people not driving their cars to keep the value in them and one member had a really good point. He said we are just one major battery break through away from gas powered cars being obsolete. It’s a bit of a stretch but not totally unrealistic. A few days ago on autoline daily an Israeli company announced they have developed a battery that can be charged in 5 minutes and has a 300-mile range, and they expect to put it into production within 3 years. This tech wouldn’t become main stream overnight but I think it will be taking a larger market segment as time goes on. Gas powered cars aren’t going away anytime soon and they will still be collectable but I think there will be a softening of the market as time goes on due to both supply/demand and a different desire of a newer generation.
Low cost + good performance + minimal maintenance = strong market presence.
A hybrid mustang is already in the works and what happens to the mustang world when it beats the GT?
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Couldn't agree more. While I can appreciate a fast "true" manual, it seems to me the younger generation could care less about the things that I or people close to my age appreciate in cars. They are more interested in electronics, fashion and pretty much everything but cars. It is refreshing to see a younger person actually admire a car and inquire about a car as it is a rare thing these days. All the car shows I go to are mainly filled with people my age or older, a few slightly younger, but the 13 - 18 year olds are for the most part not interested. At least not like I was when I was that age. I am saddened by the future of the automobile. I can't ever see myself in a "high performance" electric car. I know they are crazy fast and that is the future, but there is something so special about big power and a manual transmission. I just bought a 2017 Viper GTS-R and plan on keeping this car for a very long time if not forever as I think this car represents the last of what I have always appreciated in cars. I can tell you that when I showed the car to my 14 year old nephew, he was more impressed with the computer screen and gadgetry than with the car itself, which was funny, because that is the exact opposite for me. I think the hobby has changed and will continue to do so moving forward. Not sure what the future holds, but I know I will continue to enjoy every mile I spend behind the wheel of my gas powered (guzzling), manual transmission American brute force machines.
One thing that needs to be taken into account is there are a massive amount of the Gen X people who are entering their middle aged years. That's the time in people's lives when they seek, in this case, cars from their youth. Most can afford them now and it only makes sense they would prefer originality. I think there is still good times left in the car world. Unfortunately this may be the last hoorah as we know it though.
To add on to my last post, I'm a Gen X guy and I've already bought a 93 Cobra and recently purchased a sub 10k mile 2003 Cobra. Cars from my younger days. It took a while but I finally got them. Too bad I'm not still in high school, but I feel like the cool kid when I drive them. People who know, know.
Good thread.
My lower mile cars are my Mystichrome vert with 15k, 93 Teal with 11k and the 00R with 850 miles. I didn't buy any of them as "investments." I bought them because they are cool cars and make me smile every time I see or drive them. The fact that the 93 and 04 have continually ticked-upward since I bought them is purely a bonus. When I am too old to enjoy the cars, my kids will get them. I'm sure they will be worth a little coin by that time, but who really knows for sure. I haven't owned the R long enough to see a price trend with it yet.
TK1299 I completely agree about Gen X coming of age and seeking these cars. I’m unfortunately a millennial but I have the mindset and work ethic of a Gen X. I was very fortunate and made good financial decisions that allowed me to get my two dream cars at a relatively young age. I was concerned about the values going up and didn’t want to miss the boat. Conventional thinking is a 20-year timeframe for the values start trending up but the 00R has been slowly creeping up since I started really watching them in about 2010. Back then dealers were asking high 30’s for clean low mileage cars.
Goose I think you nailed it with fun over investments. I think 99% of “rare” cars are a bad idea as an investment only. When you figure how long you will likely have to hold onto a car to turn a decent profit compared to other avenues of financial growth, it’s just not worth it unless you’re buying a rare supercar that only the rich can afford anyway. And on top of that you have too factor in insurance, registration if it’s on the road, maintenance and repairs, housing it, and hope nothing unexpected happens. I see the values slowing going up on both my cars and I don’t drive them a lot while reserve my miles for nice days and meaningful times. I don’t expect to make money but I don’t think I will lose much either.
I think there are 2 main factors that are holding the R’s back in value.
1 there are so many clean original cars that are completely or very near being completely stock
2 you can always find one for sale, especially the 95 and 00. If you only saw one for sale occasionally I think the values would be different but at any given time you can find at least one for sale somewhere as these cars seem to change hands a lot for such a lot production car.
Goose I think you nailed it with fun over investments. I think 99% of “rare” cars are a bad idea as an investment only. When you figure how long you will likely have to hold onto a car to turn a decent profit compared to other avenues of financial growth, it’s just not worth it unless you’re buying a rare supercar that only the rich can afford anyway. And on top of that you have too factor in insurance, registration if it’s on the road, maintenance and repairs, housing it, and hope nothing unexpected happens. I see the values slowing going up on both my cars and I don’t drive them a lot while reserve my miles for nice days and meaningful times. I don’t expect to make money but I don’t think I will lose much either.
I think there are 2 main factors that are holding the R’s back in value.
1 there are so many clean original cars that are completely or very near being completely stock
2 you can always find one for sale, especially the 95 and 00. If you only saw one for sale occasionally I think the values would be different but at any given time you can find at least one for sale somewhere as these cars seem to change hands a lot for such a lot production car.
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I'm 40 something, and agree there is at least one more spike for fox era forward, muscle cars, as "we" are now gathering the cars from our youth (well at least I'm doing my part to help). As for value, not a factor for me. Sure, it's a nice feeling that your car is appreciating, but I also have a 08 GT500, and that isn't going up any time soon, but I still enjoy the car. By contrast, our FGT bought at sticker in October 05 has appreciated, a bit, but that means nothing as its not going to be sold. Actually costs me more to insure as the value climbs.
If I wanted to make money on cars, I'd sell every one, and put the money into a portfolio.
As for crazy low mile "wrapper cars", not for me. While I respect people's interes in them, not for me. I want to be able to drive them (not much, but at least a bit) so sub thousand mile, or even 500 mile cars, are not appropriate for my interest.
If I wanted to make money on cars, I'd sell every one, and put the money into a portfolio.
As for crazy low mile "wrapper cars", not for me. While I respect people's interes in them, not for me. I want to be able to drive them (not much, but at least a bit) so sub thousand mile, or even 500 mile cars, are not appropriate for my interest.
my mother always told me never invest in anything with wheels.
I think the Ford GT is one of the exceptions to the rule. It’s 1 of 3 modern cars (Ford GT, BMW Z8, BMW 1 M) that went up almost right away so if you got one early at sticker price you’re in good shape. Some cars with certain features (late model Ferrari 3 pedal manuals 430/575/599) became valuable very fast so by the time most people realized what was going on it was too late to jump on the band wagon if you didn't already have one.
As for wrapper cars, I think they are a waste of money. You’re paying a premium for a car you can’t drive. If you do drive it you just threw that extra money over average values out the window. Save the money and buy some posters. You're owning a car without experiencing it. Both my cars were low mileage when I got them and I think I’m done buying low mileage cars so I feel less guilty about driving them and I would pay less.
As for wrapper cars, I think they are a waste of money. You’re paying a premium for a car you can’t drive. If you do drive it you just threw that extra money over average values out the window. Save the money and buy some posters. You're owning a car without experiencing it. Both my cars were low mileage when I got them and I think I’m done buying low mileage cars so I feel less guilty about driving them and I would pay less.
All good posts. I would give a different observation that gets back to the same result. I have always liked the 1928-33 Packard's. Every year that goes by, they get cheaper because there are less buyers and, as people age, more sellers. I will probably pick one up, well cared for, when my last child gets thru college, and own it until I die. The newer mustangs are toys to us, so they price accordingly. I picked up my 68 Shelby for not much more than the cost of a new mustang GT at the time, and its value tags along with the newest toy, currently the new GT 350. $60-75K give or take. BTW, every year I think about selling the 68 as the nostalgia has wore off. Scale back to my 95 R, and its price should tag along with a base GT, say just under 30k now. Difference between the two cars is that I am favorable to modifying the 95, and I move towards more originality with the 68. As the new toys go up in value, there will always be people that have to make the decision between the newest, and the older model that stirred their soul. I believe that choice ultimately sets the price the buyer will pay.
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