Military. What should I be planning for?

Deric

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I'm looking for some advice from the military members here.

Let me start with a little background so you know where I'm coming from. I'm a 27 year old aerospace engineer. I feel old just saying that. I swear I was 18 just the other day.
Anyway, I've got a good job at a great company. I've got no complaints. The pay is lower-than-average but I like what I do. I'm only an hour and a half from my home town, friends, and family. But, I'm getting a little cooped up and I feel it may be time for a new adventure. When I think about the future I don't get excited about the thought of being an old man and telling stories about my days in the office with a calculator and femap. Nor do I look forward to waking up still in the same town ten years from now. I need some adventure, I want to travel, I want to do something memorable and big.

A large part of the reason I chose to pursue engineering after high school was because it is unanimously ranked as the most difficult four year degree available (I was also told that it payed well and I was a good fit). I've always liked to challenge myself so I went for it. I wanted a good challenge and to prove to myself that I could earn the most difficult 4 year degree there is. As I stated earlier, I earned the degree and landed an awesome job designing carbon fiber jets and airplanes. I enjoy engineering and the everyday challenges I meet. However, I think I am ready to move on. Don't get me wrong, I love what I do and there is a great sense of pride and accomplishment that goes along with the title and the work. But I feel like there is more out there that I can do. I want to do it.

That's what has got me thinking about the military. I realize I may be a little older than the average recruit, but I don't think it's too late. Naturally I looked for the most difficult and challenging way to get my foot in the door. I've been basically obsessed with the SEALs for a while now. As strange as it sounds, BUD/S sounds like a blast to me. That's not to say I think it's easy. I'm not an idiot. I just like to have big goals. I realize that prep, BUD/S and SQT are an unrealistic goals at my age, and for 80% of the people that attempt it. I've watched the full Class 234 documentary a couple times and read everything I could find. Plus, it seems unlikely that Id be able to meet the swimming requirement before the age cutoff anyway.

That being said, I want to do something big with my life, and the bigger the challenge the better. I'm attracted to two very different military roles. The first is a pilot, in any branch. Preferably in the jets, but I know thats not entirely up to me. The second is a sniper, preferrably in the Marines. Now, I know what you're thinking, I probably sound like a 17 year old looking to be a superhero picking roles based off of action movies I've seen. But those are two things that I've been passionate about my whole life. I've been hunting and shooting rifles since before I was strong enough to hold them up on my own. I would consider myself to be much better than the average when it comes to shooting. Obviously I've got a thing for airplanes, and being paid to fly would be a great day in my book.

Sorry for the long rant. But for you military guys, what is the preferred route to either of these roles? I've searched online with mixed results and varying opinions. I assume there is no "for sure" route to either one. I'd like to do both if I could, to be honest. However, once one becomes and officer to get into flight school, sniper school goes out the window. What are the pros and cons of being a pilot or sniper in each of the branches?

Any advice, stories, or suggestions?
 
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ViperRed91GT

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Sounds like you want to do what other people think are cool (not saying you don't think they're cool, they're just so completely different). Take the time to decide what you really want, then go for it. With your background, flight school may not be a hard sell, depending on what you want to fly. I knew I wanted to fly as soon as I joined, and it took 8 years to get there. I've been in for 14 now, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Lastly, if you aren't 1000% sure that you know what you want, don't waste your time. The options you have laid out will require a serious commitment, and will test your fortitude. Not for those who aren't sure.
 

Rainmaker

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You can still go to BUD/s. There are 29 year old guys with SO contracts and they are super moto. You need an age waiver if you are 29 or 30. A 38 year old graduated BUD/s in the early 2000's. I hear of guys even getting waivers at 31 and 32 years old. Go for it dude. Get into the 8:00 500 yard swim range, 9:00 1.5 mile run, 120+ pushups in 2 minutes, 100+ situps in 2 minutes and you can get a contract. But to be honest the type of guys that get through BUD/s are the ones that have to have it and nothing else will suffice. Not saying you can't do it but typical Team guys never thought about any other job in the Military except being a SEAL
 
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Regulars520

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I'm looking for some advice from the military members here.

Let me start with a little background so you know where I'm coming from. I'm a 27 year old aerospace engineer. I feel old just saying that. I swear I was 18 just the other day.
Anyway, I've got a good job at a great company. I've got no complaints. The pay is lower-than-average but I like what I do. I'm only an hour and a half from my home town, friends, and family. But, I'm getting a little cooped up and I feel it may be time for a new adventure. When I think about the future I don't get excited about the thought of being an old man and telling stories about my days in the office with a calculator and femap. Nor do I look forward to waking up still in the same town ten years from now. I need some adventure, I want to travel, I want to do something memorable and big.

A large part of the reason I chose to pursue engineering after high school was because it is unanimously ranked as the most difficult four year degree available (I was also told that it payed well and I was a good fit). I've always liked to challenge myself so I went for it. I wanted a good challenge and to prove to myself that I could earn the most difficult 4 year degree there is. As I stated earlier, I earned the degree and landed an awesome job designing carbon fiber jets and airplanes. I enjoy engineering and the everyday challenges I meet. However, I think I am ready to move on. Don't get me wrong, I love what I do and there is a great sense of pride and accomplishment that goes along with the title and the work. But I feel like there is more out there that I can do. I want to do it.

That's what has got me thinking about the military. I realize I may be a little older than the average recruit, but I don't think it's too late. Naturally I looked for the most difficult and challenging way to get my foot in the door. I've been basically obsessed with the SEALs for a while now. As strange as it sounds, BUD/S sounds like a blast to me. That's not to say I think it's easy. I'm not an idiot. I just like to have big goals. I realize that prep, BUD/S and SQT are an unrealistic goals at my age, and for 80% of the people that attempt it. I've watched the full Class 134 documentary a couple times and read everything I could find. Plus, it seems unlikely that Id be able to meet the swimming requirement before the age cutoff anyway.

That being said, I want to do something big with my life, and the bigger the challenge the better. I'm attracted to two very different military roles. The first is a pilot, in any branch. Preferably in the jets, but I know thats not entirely up to me. The second is a sniper, preferrably in the Marines. Now, I know what you're thinking, I probably sound like a 17 year old looking to be a superhero picking roles based off of action movies I've seen. But those are two things that I've been passionate about my whole life. I've been hunting and shooting rifles since before I was strong enough to hold them up on my own. I would consider myself to be much better than the average when it comes to shooting. Obviously I've got a thing for airplanes, and being paid to fly would be a great day in my book.

Sorry for the long rant. But for you military guys, what is the preferred route to either of these roles? I've searched online with mixed results and varying opinions. I assume there is no "for sure" route to either one. I'd like to do both if I could, to be honest. However, once one becomes and officer to get into flight school, sniper school goes out the window. What are the pros and cons of being a pilot or sniper in each of the branches?

Any advice, stories, or suggestions?

You will rethink all of this once the first pack strap starts chaffing you down to the bone and you still have 20 miles to go. I will never try and deter someone from joining the service but I will prepare you. As a seal or any special forces outfit your time no longer belongs to you. Forget having a life outside of it. It is non-stop training and deploying. So if you enjoy free time at all and you still want to go into the military then join a regular unit. If you want to be a fighter then join the infantry if you want some free time atleast infantry gets a few breaks. If you think being a seal is cool then rethink what you want to do.
 

Deric

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Sounds like you want to do what other people think are cool (not saying you don't think they're cool, they're just so completely different). Take the time to decide what you really want, then go for it. The options you have laid out will require a serious commitment, and will test your fortitude. Not for those who aren't sure.

Definitely, I'm sure a lot of people think they are cool. But the reason they are so different is because whatever I do is going to take full commitment. And if I'm going all out and signing a good chunk of my life away, I'm going to shoot for something I'm good at and that I'll enjoy. I couldn't see going into this big pay cut and lack of free time just for any old MOS. Whichever I decide to go with will require everything I've got. And those are two that i know id be happy to give that for.

Also, there are probably dozens of jobs I don't even know about that I would like too. Feel free to share those too.
 

Regulars520

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P.S you dont choose to be a Sniper. Sniper is a specialty skill that requires being chosen first to go to sniper school and then passing an indoc to join scout snipers. I was a Marine Sniper and then retired an Army Sniper.

Also if you think being a sniper is all about glory shots then think again. Only in hollywood is that the case. A snipers primary mission isnt even shooting, it is to observe and record battlefield information. Shooting is second. Being a Sniper is all about being in the suck all the time.
 
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cpotts13

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So I haven't seen any one mention this but go in as a commissioned officer rather than enlisted. Once you are in it is much harder to retrain into a spec ops career field than if you would have joined with that job from the get go. I would know, that's what I'm trying to do now.

Like others have mentioned it has to be in your blood. You have to be meant for it. Also don't exclude other branches special ops such as Air Force Pararescue..

The motivation you will have coming straight from BOT/OTS/Basic will aide you going straight into indoc/buds. If you waited till later in your military career that gung hoe motivation wears off..
 

Deric

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P.S you dont choose to be a Sniper. Sniper is a specialty skill that requires being chosen first to go to sniper school and then passing an indoc to join scout snipers. I was a Marine Sniper and then retired an Army Sniper.

Also if you think being a sniper is all about glory shots then think again. Only in hollywood is that the case. A snipers primary mission isnt even shooting, it is to observe and record battlefield information. Shooting is second. Being a Sniper is all about being in the suck all the time.

I realize this. That is why said these were goals. Goals that involve reaching and effort. I never implied that I wanted to walk in and be on top. That was the reason for my long winded intro. I understand the lotto-like chances of receiving what I want, especially when it's not entirely up to me. Like I said, I'm not a 17 year old wild card hoping for a Hollywood movie experience. I am a sensible adult trying to learn about the paths that might be best to follow, if I decide to follow one. That way I can make an informed decision rather than jump out of my stable, highly sought after career and go head first into the unknown.
 
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sniper85

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My dad was in the Army Infantry during Vietnam(He was on one of the very first LRRPs Teams were the graduations was an actual mission and sometimes the teams never made it back) and he tried every way to get me to join something besides Infantry. In a point you are right.... Is it cool to say? Yes.... Listen to "...520" he's right on spot. But I will tell you what my dad told me when I told him I signed up for the Infantry.

I walked in and told him and he told me to sit down. He then pulled a bottle of Crown Royal out and poured two glasses and handed me one(I was 18 at the time). He said, "Baby, I'm going to tell you something I wish someone told me when I joined. If you join the Infantry and go over seas, it will be fun and during your time in it will probably be the best time of your life. You are in great shape but that is only half the battle. I don't care how badass you think you are or how badass you think you will be. When you get home your heart will hurt for the rest of your life and there is nothing you can do to change it. You can learn to control it but till the day you die. You will carry the pain, heart ache and why's with you everywhere you go and they will be in everything you do. Keep a 360 look out and most importantly don't forget. Sometimes, all you can do is cry, it's the best relief."

Just remember there is more to all this then just school and being cool. Learn how to sniper crawl for a few hrs moving only a few meters. In a ghillie suit during the hottest summer day or coldest winter day. Make a ghillie, you will need a hat, I put pads on my pants and made some halfass vents trust me they take time and they suck, not as cool as the movies make them look. And, NO...don't buy one. Make one before you go to school and if you don't stay up late and help other guys. Well....it won't turn out good. Go get a Sniper manual and you will find ALOT of helpful info. But if you think this is for you and you go to combat zone and make it home. Remember, you are not alone.
 

svtfocus2cobra

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My suggestion: Go Rangers or SF. Rangers are a great starting point to a career in special operations if you want to have the option to move up to greater positions. You have those opportunities in general whether it is SEALs or MARSOC but the transitioning will be easier moving within the Army. MARSOC and SEALs are both going to have some incredibly difficult swimming prerequisites because it makes up part of their identity. While other groups are equally as skilled in that aspect, it is not a requirement for all of them to have such a high level of water proficiency. I was a great swimmer and always tested at a high level in the Marines but Im not sure I could do the tests that MARSOC and SEALs require. MARSOC has always been tempting for me but I always see myself going back in for the Rangers more than anything else.

My words of advice: You sound like an intelligent guy so do your research thoroughly before making any decisions. You have to consider what will give you the best odds of accomplishing the adventure that you want even if you fail your primary goal at first. I knew a lot of BUDS duds as they would drop to our Battallion in a POG job which is the exact opposite of what they wanted to be doing, but the Navy doesn't have much in the form of a grunt corps so there's limited opportunity to go infantry in the Navy if you fail BUDS. If you fail going out to be a Ranger or a Green Beret, you could get sent to an infantry unit like the 82nd where you will gain valuable experience and move up and learn how to prepare yourself to retry the challenge you weren't prepared for before. A big part of being successful in the military is just kbowing what to expect and having the familiarity to mentally prepare yourself for what is going to come your way. Most civilians simply have no idea how bad it can suck. It took me almost a year, year and a hlaf in the Marines to feel what real suck was. Boot camp and ITB were just tiny stepping stones for children, but at the time they seem impossible sometimes. You go to some of these indocs and you'll laugh at ever thinking the basic training was even remotely difficult.

I have limited general knowledge on special operations as in the groups in SOCOM, but I was Marine infantry and also knew plenty of snipers. The biggest thing you have to remember is that these seemingly glorious jobs are not always as glorious when you get there. I'm sure most snipers love their jobs and the autonomy of their units but one of the best and smartest Marines I had the pleasure of serving under didn't paint a pretty picture of being a sniper. Just somethig to keep in mind. You'll usually love the jobs you had looking back but often times hate it when you're doing it. It's just another job, but one you will never regret doing if you feel called to it.

Good luck.
 
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R.D.P.

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I heard from some of my buddies that were in the Navy that the intellectual badasses went to Nuke school, as in the engines on carriers, ect. Just a thought if you want to challenge your mind more. Honestly though if I were you I would see how far your degree would get you towards becoming a pilot. I have a good friend that flew in the first gulf war, some sort of radar\recon plane, sounded boring until he showed me home movies of landing\taking off on a carrier and skimming the desert at something like 300mph.

Actually one of my Navy buddies went in enlisted at around your age. He went in with dreams of becoming a diver and never really made it and he was in great shape going in. He ended up eventually getting to do some dive work, but spent the majority of his time doing something with torpedoes and hated it for the most part, but he did travel.
 

_Snake_

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OP - it sounds as though you're in a situation very similar to one I was in. Although I've been out for over 10 years, I had a chance to serve on both sides (enlisted and officer). Shoot me a PM if you want to chat......

.
 

Regulars520

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I look at alot of responses here but a lot of these are not exactly what they seem. They all sound cool and like great careers in print but there is more to it that you are not seeing. Military service is not a defined path, there is no im going to be etc...

SF, Rangers,Seals, and these sweet sounding entry contracts all sound great and gun ho. However nobody has explained to you odds and circumstances. Alot of people telling you these things have not gone down the path they are suggesting.

Circumstances:

SF Rangers Seals etc contracts are not a guarantee. There is alot left to chance, and I mean alot.
1. You find during selection that you just cant physically keep up
2. You get hurt, twisted knee, blown acl, broken bone, etc...
3. You make it however you do not get selected

So now what happens?
This:
You become a "surplus soldier"
You now go to needs of the army, navy, etc...
What does this mean? This means they will place you in whatever MOS they want, you dont get to choose now, they do.

If you want to be SF, Ranger, Seal etc then you do not come in on a sf contract etc... You choose a job that you want to do other than these. SF seal etc is not an mos it is a specialty skill, I.E its not a job. Now you go through all of your MOS that you chose schooling, etc...

Then you go to SF selection, ranger batt, buds, etc...

New circumstances
1. Cant physically do it
2. Get hurt
3. Dont get selected

What happens to me now? I go back to the MOS that I chose and finish out doing what I want to do.

You seem to be book smart so your ASVAB score probably will open a wide variety of doors for you. Choose something outside of all the gun ho stuff FIRST. Control your career with logic. Listening to guys on a forum is probably not your best route for a life changing event.

I am not trying to deter you from trying or doing it. However nobody here is giving you logical advise. You can very easily set your new career up for failure if you do not do this right.

I have seen so many people not make it and they were on contracts and have become miserable because now they are stranded in an MOS they do not want to be in. You cannot just re-class from one MOS to another, its not that easy.

Heavily think this thru before you make any choices.
 
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svtfocus2cobra

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I look at alot of responses here but a lot of these are not exactly what they seem. They all sound cool and like great careers in print but there is more to it that you are not seeing. Military service is not a defined path, there is no im going to be etc...

SF, Rangers,Seals, and these sweet sounding entry contracts all sound great and gun ho. However nobody has explained to you odds and circumstances. Alot of people telling you these things have not gone down the path they are suggesting.

Circumstances:

SF Rangers Seals etc contracts are not a guarantee. There is alot left to chance, and I mean alot.
1. You find during selection that you just cant physically keep up
2. You get hurt, twisted knee, blown acl, broken bone, etc...
3. You make it however you do not get selected

So now what happens?
This:
You become a "surplus soldier"
You now go to needs of the army, navy, etc...
What does this mean? This means they will place you in whatever MOS they want, you dont get to choose now, they do.

If you want to be SF, Ranger, Seal etc then you do not come in on a sf contract etc... You choose a job that you want to do other than these. SF seal etc is not an mos it is a specialty skill, I.E its not a job. Now you go through all of your MOS that you chose schooling, etc...

Then you go to SF selection, ranger batt, buds, etc...

New circumstances
1. Cant physically do it
2. Get hurt
3. Dont get selected

What happens to me now? I go back to the MOS that I chose and finish out doing what I want to do.

You seem to be book smart so your ASVAB score probably will open a wide variety of doors for you. Choose something outside of all the gun ho stuff FIRST. Control your career with logic. Listening to guys on a forum is probably not your best route for a life changing event.

I am not trying to deter you from trying or doing it. However nobody here is giving you logical advise. You can very easily set your new career up for failure if you do not do this right.

I have seen so many people not make it and they were on contracts and have become miserable because now they are stranded in an MOS they do not want to be in. You cannot just re-class from one MOS to another, its not that easy.

Heavily think this thru before you make any choices.

This is exactly what I was trying to say. Can you not go into these jobs under contract anymore though? I know SEALs still can and there used to be the Xray program but like you said, you are not any of those titles until you earn them. The quickest and safest and most surefire way of getting there is through the infantry imo. You fail due to any of the circumstances you mentioned and you just return to your unit.
 

SonicDTR

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It sounds like you want to do something fun and exciting. Today's military will have very little, if any, of that for you.

Get a hobby instead, start rock climbing, doing long range shooting, skiiing, surfing, etc. You'll have more thrill, cool stories, and more fun than the poor bastards waking up at 0300 to go sit at the armory.
 

Branhammer

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If you want to see the world, be a pilot, do something bad-ass, AND still have a good quality of life, my best advice is this:

[video=youtube;8RZSlxCRnHw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RZSlxCRnHw[/video]

I know or have at least met most of the guys on this show. I used to be in one of the maintenance squadrons that worked on the helicopters. When I was deployed, every time I watched those pilots and PJ's take off on a mission, it made me wonder if that was the job I should've gone into. It's pretty amazing and being a "Green Foot" comes with a ton of pride.

PM me if you want any other advice.
 
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ViperRed91GT

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What's the story?

No real story, my ASVAB score was great but I had zero aviation experience and zero leadership experience at 17 1/2. After 8 years and 2 deployments to Iraq, my resume looked much better. Now I'm a warrant officer, as a CH-47 instructor pilot. Already have a deployment under my belt doing that, with another not too far off. Are you thinking active duty or guard? Active duty will be much harder to get a flight packet accepted. The guard may be a bit easier, as you deal directly with them and they may prefer your civilian leadership experience/intellect. You could keep your civilian job, and supplement your life by flying as well. Just giving you things to think about.
 

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