Need Help on wastegating a procharger - 2011 mustang gt

[Kman11]

Hey Everyone,

I picked up a used stage 2 kit with a F1C head unit. I'm on the stock long block for now, and i know this head unit is overkill. I will build / buy a new motor for the car in the next year or two, so i wanted to be prepared for that.

I talked to both lund and procharger, they said both said there is no way to pulley this thing down to only make ~10 pounds of boost. I would NEED to run a wastegate setup, which leads to my main questions -

I can't find any detailed information on setting up a wastegate on a procharger. Has anyone done it?
* Where did you put the waste gate on the piping?
* Where is the BOV?

The previous owner of my kit moved the tial BOV to AFTER the intercooler, in the first pipe leaving the intercooler. Can that stay as is, and should i put the wastegate where the BOV is normally on the kit? ( Pipe pre intercooler).

Last thing - Procharger said the LARGEST pulley they have would make ~ 15 pounds of boost - I'm thinking of going with that pulley, and a 10pound wastegate spring - Does this sound like a solid plan?

Lund has some concern about the blower creating too much heat (IAT's)- Which i can't wrap my simple brain around - If the blower is being way under worked, wouldn't the air be cooler?

I have a VMP BAP, ID1000's, 93 oct, and will tuned by lund. Only other mods are an off road h pipe at this point, stock manifold.

Many thanks for any help! I'm eager to order the remainding parts i need and get this baby together.

Jesse.

 

[96redcobra]

Wastegates are for the exhaust side on a turbo application, I think you are meaning a bypass valve. Vents boost off from the pressure side to after the maf as not to mess with airflow readings. I'm no expert in forced induction so I hope someone more knowledgeable will chime in

 

[Kman11]

Wastegates are for the exhaust side on a turbo application, I think you are meaning a bypass valve. Vents boost off from the pressure side to after the maf as not to mess with airflow readings. I'm no expert in forced induction so I hope someone more knowledgeable will chime in

Using wastegates on centri setups is growing in popularity. The most common one is the "torque booster" setup on a paxton kit. You are able to run a smaller pulley to build boost faster, then keep it at a certain level ( in my case 10 PSI).

Lund was kind enough to give me a drawing of how they want the BOV and wastegate setup ( both pre intercooler).

Now i'm curious on the potential high IAT's with this head unit being under pullied.

And if anyone knows anyone who did wastegate their procharger, i would love to see some photo's of where they placed the gate on the piping, etc.

 

[ZeroDCX]

Wastegates are for the exhaust side on a turbo application, I think you are meaning a bypass valve. Vents boost off from the pressure side to after the maf as not to mess with airflow readings. I'm no expert in forced induction so I hope someone more knowledgeable will chime in

Though they are commonly utilized for turbo exhaust applications, it will work in a centri setup and have the same effect. He wishes to cap off maximum boost by dumping anything above 10 psi to atmosphere. The same way it works in a turbo setup, but instead of dumping the exhaust it dumps pressurized air. Just be sure that this is done before air is metered by the MAF. Look into Beefcake's Torque Booster setup. It's essentially exactly what you're looking to do.

Edit: Kman11 beat me to it.

 

[apex svt]

I was always told to put the waste gate and or blow off valve. Before the intercooler. The reason was not to waste "good" air. The less air you force through the intercooler the less restrictive it will become, so why not waste the hot air prior to it.

 

[Kman11]

Thanks for the help guys. I have it worked out. I'll post some pic's after for those who are interested.

Last question for now is on the vac lines -
* Wastegate - Where did you guys get a source from this?
* Bov - Source?

I see some guys put a vac manifold on the brake booster line, and run separate lines to each, is this preferred method?

I read others stating you need the wastegate line to be run off the intercooler piping pre throttle body.

 

[omj]

BOV--fitting that sees boost and vacuum after throttle body.
Wastegate--I put a fitting in the tube right after the BOV but before the WG so it only sees pressure. Steve@Tial told me it is best if the WG doesn't see vacuum.

 

[Kman11]

BOV--fitting that sees boost and vacuum after throttle body.
Wastegate--I put a fitting in the tube right after the BOV but before the WG so it only sees pressure. Steve@Tial told me it is best if the WG doesn't see vacuum.

So with my setup i have the blower, then wastegate, then BOV, then intercooler, to throttle body.

I've read what you said - That it's best if the wastegate only see's pressure. I would think i could tap the intercooler pipe anywhere pre throttle body correct? It would sensible for me to tap it on the straight section leading up to the bend going into the throttle body.

 

[omj]

I put a -4an bung into my pipe and use a braided hose to hook to the WG. I'm not sure if it matters if the WG is before the BOV or not. I'd call the mfg of the WG and see what they recommend. I prefer the BOV and WG as close to the volute as possible.

 

[Kman11]

I put a -4an bung into my pipe and use a braided hose to hook to the WG. I'm not sure if it matters if the WG is before the BOV or not. I'd call the mfg of the WG and see what they recommend. I prefer the BOV and WG as close to the volute as possible.

Cool thanks.

It's a tial MVR wastegate and tial Q bov.

I set up the wastegate / bov location as per instructions from lund.

Do you think the steel braided line is necessary? I do like the idea of it.

Also, where did you pull your boost gauge feed from?

To make sure i'm doing this right - The BOV will get a vac source from the brake booster vac manifold. The gate will get a "pressure" source from the intake piping pre throttle body. The run from the intake pipe to the gate is only about 2' or less.

Many thanks for all the help

 

[Terminal03]

I'm very interested in how this works out.. I have an f1.A on my coyote and can not keep the boost down. I have the largest pully procharger offers and 2 bovs. And the boost levels are scary @ 6k rpms... i have considered this option but wasnt sure how it would turn out...very interesting thread

 

[Kman11]

I'm very interested in how this works out.. I have an f1.A on my coyote and can not keep the boost down. I have the largest pully procharger offers and 2 bovs. And the boost levels are scary @ 6k rpms... i have considered this option but wasnt sure how it would turn out...very interesting thread

Hey thanks for chiming in.

What pulley do you have? Procharger told me 4.75" was the biggest i could use without it hitting the hood liner. They thought i would see around 15-16 psi max.

I don't under stand how the BOV's would bleed off boost pressure? My understanding is they stay shut during full throttle, and open when the throttle blade closes.

There are a few guys around with coyotes that have done the WG route, it's hard to get solid information on their setups though. There are ALOT of LS ( chevy) guys doing it, i got alot of information from ls1tech.com

I should have mine running in another week or so. I do have this fear that the WG won't open LOL.

 

[MG0h3]

I never ran braided to BOV or WG. You want a solid source for boost for the WG. On turbo systems I used the port right off the compressor or for you the supercharger. Boost gauge and BOV can share.

Try and clear this up because it will work for you:

The blow off valve only opens when the throttle closes when it sees vacuum. The purpose is to protect the impeller of the turbo/supercharger. You have all this air being rammed towards the throttle blade and through the engine, when the blade suddenly snaps shut when you let off the air needs to go somewhere...atmosphere. If all that air didnt get "blown off", it would act as a force against the impeller.

If you google some turbo vids you can hear the BOV "whoosh" or "chu chu chu" on ricers when they let off.

Wastegates were originally designed for turbo systems as mentioned. They didnt let out pressurized air but exhaust before it reached the turbo thus limiting the impeller speed. This part will open under pressure or boost. A large spring holds it closed and when it sees XYZ PSI the spring is overcome and the valve opens. Its not uncommon to get a 10psi spring and have to cut or shim it. Shimming the spring will require more boost to open it, cutting it will reduce it.

Just be sure to tell your tuner or if you are remote tuning about the wastegate and that you dont know what boost youll see. BE CAREFUL. My 10psi wastegate gave me 14psi.

Idle/cruise: BOV open and WG closed
Wide open throttle (WOT): BOV closes and boost starts rising
10 psi boost: WG opens and blows off air limiting boost to 10psi. If the WG isnt big enough, this is where youll see the boost still creep
End of pull/closed throttle: WG closes and BOV opens

 

[Rev Happy]

Not the best pictures since I just pointed my phone down there but here is my setup on a 96 Cobra.

Just to get an idea where everything is located, in the second photo, you can see the bypass valve tucked in the corner behind the driver's side fog light. Before the waste gate , the car made 18 pounds of boost which was too much for the stock fuel system with just an upgraded pump. Now with this setup, the waste gate opens at 15psi. It's a pretty loud "whoosh" when it does open, but I rarely get up to 15 pounds on the street. The mondo bypass valve venting to atmosphere is more annoying than anything.

 

[Kman11]

MG - Thanks for the help / info. When talking about seeing 14psi, was that on a turbo setup or centri?

Rev - That black line coming off the piping, is that going to the wastegate? Thanks for the photo's!

What is the consensus on the pressure line connected to the wastegate - Should i weld a bung on the intercooler piping between the supercharger and wastegate? Or weld the bung on post everything, in the last pipe pre throttle body? Or does it not matter where, as long as it's between the SC and Tbody?

 

[MG0h3]

Mine was a turbo system. Once we realized I was seeing 14psi we opened the gate up, cut the spring, and then retested with a vacumm/boost gauge and air compressor. Had to cut it a few times; I want to say we took about half a circumference each time. Just dont throw it on there, go WOT thinking youll only see 10psi and blow a head gasket.

As far as the boost ref for the wastegate, I want to say I had a port off the turbo compressor. That or I just used a simple source off the intake and wasnt worried about the gate seeing vacuum. I really cant remember. If you do weld a port in like shown above, make sure its before where youre going to place the gate!

 

[Terminal03]

I have the 4.80 pully set up on mine procharger Said that was the biggest that would fit under the hood without rubbing.. @ 6500 we're seeing 24 to 25 psi... @ 7k it spiked to 29 psi.. was a bit scary to say the least on a stock block with stock opg.. but I'm considering a wastegate set up just don't really know the pros and cons of doing so.. cars make extremely great power but the problem we're seeing now is that we can't get the car ro shift without banging the Rev limiter 4 to 5 times before shifting been a real pain in the a$$..

 

[Kman11]

I have the 4.80 pully set up on mine procharger Said that was the biggest that would fit under the hood without rubbing.. @ 6500 we're seeing 24 to 25 psi... @ 7k it spiked to 29 psi.. was a bit scary to say the least on a stock block with stock opg.. but I'm considering a wastegate set up just don't really know the pros and cons of doing so.. cars make extremely great power but the problem we're seeing now is that we can't get the car ro shift without banging the Rev limiter 4 to 5 times before shifting been a real pain in the a$$..

Wow that is crazy high! I can't believe it's hitting those boost levels with the 4.8 pulley. How has the stock motor survived?

 

[Kman11]

Well i got it started tonight, started right up and idled perfectly. Weather looks decent for the weekend, i should be able to get my preliminary logs for Lund. I'll let you guys know how i make out.

Opinion - F1 head unit sounds SICK at idle. The whine is pretty intense at idle, probably not for everyone

 

[bunits19714]

you on e 85? couldn't remember if you posted that or not and do you have a boost gauge in the car curious what it will running at crusing rpms. and I wonder what your iat will be with that wastegated, like you mentions earlier that lund had a concern about- you may have to run e 85 or add a meth kit to knock temps down. keeps the updates coming-