Ordered a 2018 Hellcat. But Love the GT350

tones_RS3

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In regards to the ZL1's looks, I think it looks fantastic.
I like it minus the rear end. The taillights and the rear spoiler kill it for me.
The car is definitely a performer though.
 

Ninjak

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GT350 is a drivers car. Smooth as silk in normal mode, and can feel like a go cart when its time to go fast. Everything you need is there.

Power ? Sure its down on power, but power can be easily bought these days. Drop a TT system on a GT350 and you will have all the power you can handle for the street. Actually probably a lot more than you would need.
 

SlowSVT

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Too bad Ford hasn't released a GT500 that is comparable to the Hell Cat ...... or Demon. The "warmed over" Challenger is certainly a beast but it's got the wheelbase of a Greyhound Bus and carries the mass of a Peterbuilt. An S550 GT500 won't handle like a GT350 but would be better than the Dodge and would be a great overall package that's makes for a great street car. Unfortunately it appears doubtful Ford will come out with a GT500 that can match the punch of a Hell cat or ZR1 and may never happen .......... *sigh*

Congrats on your new Hell Cat, post some pics here after you take delivery.
 

kw_rc

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I just made the switch from a '16 Challenger Hellcat A8 into a '17 Shelby GT350 in Grabber Blue. Night and day difference between the cars. The Challenger was big, comfortable, and fast. The Shelby is poised, balanced, graceful, with power to back it up. My GT350 is a head turner! My Challenger was a bruiser. I enjoyed the Hellcat but now it's time to enjoy the GT350.

You're going to enjoy the Hellcat. It is a totally different experience than the Shelby.
 

ZYBORG

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Too bad Ford hasn't released a GT500 that is comparable to the Hell Cat ...... or Demon. The "warmed over" Challenger is certainly a beast but it's got the wheelbase of a Greyhound Bus and carries the mass of a Peterbuilt. An S550 GT500 won't handle like a GT350 but would be better than the Dodge and would be a great overall package that's makes for a great street car. Unfortunately it appears doubtful Ford will come out with a GT500 that can match the punch of a Hell cat or ZR1 and may never happen .......... *sigh*

Umm....

Id say the Trinity is pretty comparable... lol

Not only can it rival a HC in straight in line acceleration but I beats in in the handling department. Im pretty certain it is the better overall performance package.
 

SlowSVT

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Umm....

Id say the Trinity is pretty comparable... lol

Not only can it rival a HC in straight in line acceleration but I beats in in the handling department. Im pretty certain it is the better overall performance package.

762 hp vs. 840 hp? Start modding both of them and my money is on the Chrysler. I am no fan of the 5.8

Ford took the bore (and stroke) on the Trinity out too far and on top of that had to resort to a linerless block delegating it to the recycle bin in the event you score a cylinder which isn't hard to do in a blown motor. Mihovetz stated he wouldn't recommend taking a 5.8 past 15 psi but runs 50 on his mod motors. The funny thing is the relative absents of any 1000+ hp fire breathing 5.8 I can't recall ever seeing one with something other than the stock blower. Personally I would be afraid to lay a wench on that engine.

Not taking away from the 13/14 GT500, it's that ENGINE! Any effort to hop-up that car would have the 5.8 strapped down on a skid sitting in the corner of the garage and a 5.4 in the engine bay. I want no part of a linerless block in a blown engine! You can add variable timing to the list who needs that on 20 psi at 1500 rpm's?

Dollars-to-doughnuts the new GT500 if it ever gets released will be in the same boat just like every Ford performance engine since 2013. Gone are the days some kid with dreams of grandeur, a Cobra and $10,000 can build an 800 hp street car easier than falling off a wet log. Mods these days are pretty much limited to intake and exhaust if even that :(

Hot rodders are a dying breed
 

biminiLX

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The 5.4 and 5.8 have the same stroke. Only difference is the larger bore on the 5.8. You do realize Nissan GTRs use the same spray bore tech as its licensed direct from Ford? You also would want to sleeve any 5.4/5.8 aluminum block over 1200hp.
The 5.8 spray bore is not an issue.
The Trinity was 662hp and the Hellcat is 707hp, but the 600# advantage goes to the GT500. The HC A8 trans is the game changer though.
-J
 

SlowSVT

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The 5.4 and 5.8 have the same stroke. Only difference is the larger bore on the 5.8. You do realize Nissan GTRs use the same spray bore tech as its licensed direct from Ford? You also would want to sleeve any 5.4/5.8 aluminum block over 1200hp.
The 5.8 spray bore is not an issue.
The Trinity was 662hp and the Hellcat is 707hp, but the 600# advantage goes to the GT500. The HC A8 trans is the game changer though.
-J

the bottom line is a sprary bore is a big issue if something goes wrong which will leave you with 2 painful and expensive choices. Even an out of round bore can pose a real dilemma. The 5.4 goes in the engine bay and the 5.8 goes on Ebay. Just ask an engine builder which is a better platform to build on. IMO this is not even a debate.
 

biminiLX

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the bottom line is a sprary bore is a big issue if something goes wrong which will leave you with 2 painful and expensive choices. Even an out of round bore can pose a real dilemma. The 5.4 goes in the engine bay and the 5.8 goes on Ebay. Just ask an engine builder which is a better platform to build on. IMO this is not even a debate.
You're not following me. The 5.8 is fine up to the point where both would need sleeving anyway. Ask an engine builder? I just built a JDM 5.8 so I actually have man.
-J
 

ZYBORG

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762 hp vs. 840 hp? Start modding both of them and my money is on the Chrysler. I am no fan of the 5.8

Ford took the bore (and stroke) on the Trinity out too far
and on top of that had to resort to a linerless block delegating it to the recycle bin in the event you score a cylinder which isn't hard to do in a blown motor. Mihovetz stated he wouldn't recommend taking a 5.8 past 15 psi but runs 50 on his mod motors. The funny thing is the relative absents of any 1000+ hp fire breathing 5.8 I can't recall ever seeing one with something other than the stock blower. Personally I would be afraid to lay a wench on that engine.

Not taking away from the 13/14 GT500, it's that ENGINE! Any effort to hop-up that car would have the 5.8 strapped down on a skid sitting in the corner of the garage and a 5.4 in the engine bay. I want no part of a linerless block in a blown engine! You can add variable timing to the list who needs that on 20 psi at 1500 rpm's?

Dollars-to-doughnuts the new GT500 if it ever gets released will be in the same boat just like every Ford performance engine since 2013. Gone are the days some kid with dreams of grandeur, a Cobra and $10,000 can build an 800 hp street car easier than falling off a wet log. Mods these days are pretty much limited to intake and exhaust if even that :(

Hot rodders are a dying breed


Sorry man,

Before you continue to your argument, you might consider getting your facts straight.

"762 hp vs 840hp"?

More like an 662 hp vs 707 hp. With a 500+ lbs advantage to the Ford.

5.4 and 5.8 have the same stroke. Ford has been using linerless blocks with PTWA since the 2011 5.4.

Nissan licensed this PTWA tech from Ford for the GTRs. They seem to be doing ok with their 3.8L V6.

You dont see many heavily modded 5.8s because:

They can easily make over 800 RWHP with boltons.

They are not cheap cars, so most everyone that buys them dont feel the need of tearing into the car. They are already tons of fun with the factory stock 600+ RWHP.

Lastly, hot rodding is alive an well. Only difference is the cost of playing has went up, along with everyhing else.
 

SlowSVT

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Sorry man,

Before you continue to your argument, you might consider getting your facts straight.

"762 hp vs 840hp"?

More like an 662 hp vs 707 hp. With a 500+ lbs advantage to the Ford.

5.4 and 5.8 have the same stroke. Ford has been using linerless blocks with PTWA since the 2011 5.4.

Nissan licensed this PTWA tech from Ford for the GTRs. They seem to be doing ok with their 3.8L V6.

You dont see many heavily modded 5.8s because:

They can easily make over 800 RWHP with boltons.

They are not cheap cars, so most everyone that buys them dont feel the need of tearing into the car. They are already tons of fun with the factory stock 600+ RWHP.

Lastly, hot rodding is alive an well. Only difference is the cost of playing has went up, along with everyhing else.

I don't recall arguing with anyone, whoever feels there is nothing wrong with a linerless block they are certainly entitled to that opinion. This is primarily a cost saving move at Ford's end but not from the customers perspective they will pay dearly if they manage to damage a cylinder. The only reason I broached this topic is so others can consider the ramifications of the direction the industry is headed which does not bode well for the hot rod industry.

Hot rodding is not alive and well it is slowing dying only the people who can afford it will be able to play. 10 years from now no high school kid trying to get into the hobby will be able to cope with the complexity and expense associated with these new crop of cars. Without new people entering the sport and learning the vital skills that come with it the demands of the aftermarket will slowly die off. All one has to do is look at the number of aftermarket blowers being installed on the newer cars compared to the older ones, on the 13/14 GT500 it's almost unheard of and is something even I would be reluctant to do. This is something I've noticed is already occurring anyone who has been in this hobby for as long as I have would agree. As the years goes by the demand for the older cars that are easier to maintain will only get stronger while the newer cars will be deemed too expensive and complex will wind up being put out to pasture or parted out. A few people have stated they are giving-up on the new cars and looking for an older one as their hobby car.

It's a depressing analogy but sadly true
 

oldbmwfan

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People said the same thing about fuel injection. "You can't tune that! A computer controls it!" They said the same thing about cars with variable valve timing, and cars with direct injection. Give it 10 years, people will figure out how to tinker and the costs of a screw-up will come down as the value of the cars drops. Why don't you see people porting out the throttles on Ferraris? It's not because the tech is so different; it's because they don't want to screw up a highly valuable asset.

Also, I'm not sure it's a terrible thing if the factory engineers are putting out engines that are close to optimal performance anyway. It's pretty cool when the manufacturers are putting this much engineering and innovation into their engines, rather than designing to the least common denominator. I mean, we own cars that come out of the box with 526 HP and can spin at 8k+ RPM and they have a freaking warranty. Good time to be alive, IMO.
 

B7BlownSnake

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I see plenty of younger people or people my age (early 30s) modding new Mustangs and Camaros, as well as all manner of turbo-4 pocket rockets and higher end AMGs, Ms, and GTRs. Hot rodding is alive an well.

Maybe you see it differently because cars aren't cheap crap boxes like the old Fox Mustangs. If hot rodding to you is swapping plugs and removing air silencers, well that is dead because cars are more efficient and powerful now.

You don't see 13-14 GT500 blower swaps because you don't need a blower swap to make 800hp. Now you usually have to do less to make stupid amounts of power. I see countless blowers and turbo kits on Coyotes around me, numerous FBO and built GTRs, plenty of modded Corvettes, and lots of modded AMGs.

Hot rodding is far from dead. I have no idea what you're talking about. It's gotten a bit more expensive because cars have gotten better and most aftermarket part quality has gotten better.

Do you stick with the old rotary dial phone because a new smart phone is too complex? Use a wash board because these new fangled electronic washing machine thingys are too complex?
 

ZYBORG

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I don't recall arguing with anyone, whoever feels there is nothing wrong with a linerless block they are certainly entitled to that opinion. This is primarily a cost saving move at Ford's end but not from the customers perspective they will pay dearly if they manage to damage a cylinder. The only reason I broached this topic is so others can consider the ramifications of the direction the industry is headed which does not bode well for the hot rod industry.

Hot rodding is not alive and well it is slowing dying only the people who can afford it will be able to play. 10 years from now no high school kid trying to get into the hobby will be able to cope with the complexity and expense associated with these new crop of cars. Without new people entering the sport and learning the vital skills that come with it the demands of the aftermarket will slowly die off. All one has to do is look at the number of aftermarket blowers being installed on the newer cars compared to the older ones, on the 13/14 GT500 it's almost unheard of and is something even I would be reluctant to do. This is something I've noticed is already occurring anyone who has been in this hobby for as long as I have would agree. As the years goes by the demand for the older cars that are easier to maintain will only get stronger while the newer cars will be deemed too expensive and complex will wind up being put out to pasture or parted out. A few people have stated they are giving-up on the new cars and looking for an older one as their hobby car.

It's a depressing analogy but sadly true


I didnt say you were arguing. I was just talking about your "argument" / rationale.

I hear you, things are getting much more expensive. But people out there have the option to pick their poison. You can start out on a fox / LS car and move on up as you continue to make more money (if you so desire). But if you wanna play with the toys that are considered "crème de la crème", then you will have to pay to play.

There are flavors for everyone out there. That is not a bad thing.
 

Corbic

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Yeah, bunch of sky is falling crap. It was not as easy to make power in the 60’s and 70’s as everyone thinks.

You had to have ample experience machining and building engines.

Today you can buy a car, slap on a FI kit, grab your laptop and make +650whp and run high 10’s on a daily driver.

So what if you are leaving the stock cams in there. As far as VVT, in the 2JZ world it’s basically worth an extra 500cc of displacement.

It’s also why a Coyote makes 130hp more then a 4v.



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gimmie11s

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the bottom line is a sprary bore is a big issue if something goes wrong which will leave you with 2 painful and expensive choices. Even an out of round bore can pose a real dilemma. The 5.4 goes in the engine bay and the 5.8 goes on Ebay. Just ask an engine builder which is a better platform to build on. IMO this is not even a debate.


This is exactly the reason i bought the Shelby i bought. I wanted a Trinity car desperately (love the look, the tech, and the blower) but knew i wanted NO PART of a $15+k rebuild should it shit the bed.


Now

I do think its nonsense to say there arent any fast trinity cars with stock motors and stock blowers. They were going 140mph sooner after their release than the HC was.

It takes quite a bit of work to get an HC to do 140 ... probably just as much as it does a Trinity GT500.
 

Corbic

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It takes quite a bit of work to get an HC to do 140 ... probably just as much as it does a Trinity GT500.

Hellcat has that extra girth to drag across the strip.

The fact that a short block is only $3,900 is a huge bonus however.
 

ZYBORG

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Hellcats huge advantage is that auto. At the same time, I am very happy that SVT has only produced vehicles with a man pedal. Im sure this awesomeness will come to an end on the next 500.
 

kw_rc

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This is exactly the reason
It takes quite a bit of work to get an HC to do 140 ... probably just as much as it does a Trinity GT500.

Actually it doesn't take much:
Upper pulley
Catless mids
Injectors
Driveshaft
17inch DRs
3.09s
Tune

You don't even need a CAI or headers.

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