Pinion Nut Torque With Solid Spacer

[Bad Company]

To bad a Dana 60 wouldn't fit. I have all the setup tools for that rearend.

That is until you give the housing expanding tool to the wrong guy who thinks you can't stretch the housing with it. LOL

I have a friend that it doesn't take him 3 hours to do a Dana 60 or 80 rear. He helped me with this 8.8, he said the 8.8 was a pain in the butt to do and couldn't believe how long it took the two of us to get it back together correctly. A lot of our issues came from using a set of bearings that were Micro Blue treated. This really screws with bearing pre-load readings. I think we went through 3 crush spacers to get the pinion backlash set for those bearings.

 

[Bad Company]

Bad Company thank you for the additional information. I have lots of home work ahead before I tackle this problem. It might be a month or two before it is all resolved. Another forum member and I will be removing the entire rear end and performing surgery on it . I will document this extensively on the forum with pictures to the nth degree and hopefully it will help someone else in the future.

To me these rears need to come out of the car to measure pinion gear pre-load correctly. There isn't enough room under the car to get the torque reading with a constant rotation of the pinion with the rear in the car.

Read the instructions a number of times beforehand and keep them handy to read while doing this, you'll be fine.

 

[Snoopy49]

That is until you give the housing expanding tool to the wrong guy who thinks you can't stretch the housing with it. LOL

Ain't that the truth. It's a good way of trashing a housing. But used properly, it beats the heck out of Fords approach to the carrier bearing preload adjustment.

Dana Housing Spreader Tool.

 

[SteveWK]

When I had the factory 3.73 gears replaced under warranty for whining, the second I did a burnout and launched at the strip they whined loud and hard. This was with the factory UCA, mount and diff bushing. BMR LCAs with their hybrid rubber/poly bushing.

When I replaced my gears myself, I opted to go for the Ford Racing 4.10 set. I pressed off the ring gear and found NO 638 between it and the carrier. Ford tech didnt use it. I made sure to use the 638 as specified in the Ford Racing instructions during reassembly. Its made a difference. I added the Moser (ARP 2000) carrier cap stud kit and a Ford Racing G2 diff girdle cover during reassembly so it reinforced the diff too. I also redid my suspension with a Rod end BMR upper, BMR poly solid diff bushing, and BMR rod end lowers and relo brackets. Its a whole lot of solid in my suspension compared to when I was running the 3.73s.

3 aggressive burnouts and quarter mile passes on the setup and only a slight whine at 70 mph. Not audible any other speed or load. It may get louder the more burnouts and passes I make but compared to 3 passes with the 3.73s, its a night and day difference.

These 8.8s will just be noisy. That simple. 3 link rear end has more to do with the noise transfer, but I think there is something in the harmonics of the 3.73 cut that makes them whine the most.

Thanks for the information. I agree. I think there is something to the harmonics of the car and 3.73s, but I think it can be minimized if the gears are installed properly. I do have 4.10s sitting in the other room, and I will most likely install those. My car is headed back to stockish power levels, and I don't think 4.10s combined with the taller transmission gears in the 2013 GT500 will be a big deal. The 3.31s are like having a Powerglide manual transmission.

I wonder if this is the reason Ford added the dampener weights to the end of the axle housing?

I wondered the same thing. Do our cars have those weights? If so, not sure if mine are still there.

That is until you give the housing expanding tool to the wrong guy who thinks you can't stretch the housing with it. LOL

I have a friend that it doesn't take him 3 hours to do a Dana 60 or 80 rear. He helped me with this 8.8, he said the 8.8 was a pain in the butt to do and couldn't believe how long it took the two of us to get it back together correctly. A lot of our issues came from using a set of bearings that were Micro Blue treated. This really screws with bearing pre-load readings. I think we went through 3 crush spacers to get the pinion backlash set for those bearings.

Interesting you used crush spacers. The crush spacer would be easier for me rather than repeating bearing preload with shims and a solid spacer. Maybe there isn't an advantage to using a solid spacer.

I don't understand why after setting pinion depth you wouldn't be able to get the backlash set properly (your comment about using 3 crush spacers). Setting pinion depth is suppose to put the pinion gear in the proper position relative to the ring gear center line minus any left right ring gear shims. ?? Just asking, not criticizing.


The entire rear will come out for the install. I am not in my 20's anymore (add 30+), but I do have help from another forum member. This is going to take time, but I will document it.

 

[Snoopy49]

I wonder if this is the reason Ford added the dampener weights to the end of the axle housing?

I wondered the same thing. Do our cars have those weights? If so, not sure if mine are still there.

The 13/14 GT500s' don't have the weights, but the earlier cars seem to have them. It would be interesting if the all have them or if it is a 3.73 thing?

 

[Snoopy49]

The dampeners description says they will fit all 2011-14 V-6 to GT500 Mustangs. So if anyone wanted to try a set on the 13-14 GT500, it's looks like it's a bolt-on piece.
Left Damper - Ford (BR3Z-4A263-A)
Right Damper - Ford (BR3Z-4A263-B)
Item #8
Axle & Differential for 2014 Ford Mustang | Auto Nation Ford White Bear Lake

 

[SteveWK]

Autonation rocks. I order all of my parts from them. They do a great job. In fact I'm going to be in Minneapolis next weekend.

What I don't know is if they will bolt on. If they will I will give it a shot. 40 bucks delivered.

 

[SteveWK]

BTW, what is a housing spreader and why would you want to spread your housing

 

[Bad Company]

Ain't that the truth. It's a good way of trashing a housing. But used properly, it beats the heck out of Fords approach to the carrier bearing preload adjustment.

Dana Housing Spreader Tool.

View attachment 1489954

View attachment 1489958

Oh I'm not saying it isn't a better idea, it just seems some people don't know when to quit and destroy parts.

 

[Bad Company]

Interesting you used crush spacers. The crush spacer would be easier for me rather than repeating bearing preload with shims and a solid spacer. Maybe there isn't an advantage to using a solid spacer.

I don't understand why after setting pinion depth you wouldn't be able to get the backlash set properly (your comment about using 3 crush spacers). Setting pinion depth is suppose to put the pinion gear in the proper position relative to the ring gear center line minus any left right ring gear shims. ?? Just asking, not criticizing.

The crush spacer is only used to set the pinion bearing pre-load. The problem I had and the reason I ended up using 3 of them to get the pre-lod set correctly was because I had the bearing treated by MicroBlue Racing. MicroBlue told me to use 1/2 of the factory pre-load spec for new bearings. I couldn't believe there was going to be that much of a difference. The first spacer I set pre-load to stock specs. It was obvious after doing this that it was way too tight. The pinion felt notchy as I turned the pinion by hand afterwards. The second spacer I went too far on the bearing pre-load. I had 5 in-lbs and barely turned the locknut and went to 10in-lbs, which was still too tight. On the third one I spent a considerable amount of time sneaking up on the 6 in-lb spec MicroBlue told me to use in the first place. If you go past the spec you're trying to set the pre-load at, you can NOT loosen the nut. You have to pull it apart and start over with a new crush spacer.

My total bearing pre-load for the rear with both the pinion and carrier bearing was 14 in-lbs, which is considerably lower than stock. This caused me to spend a lot of extra time making sure I had everything correct. I just couldn't believe the treatment of the bearings was reducing drag by that much, but when I set it to factory specs it was obvious that was too high. You could feel the bearings binding in the races at stock specs.

I never felt the whine in these rears comes from the crush spacer collapsing under load. Its job is only to hold forward to rear tension between the bearings. To start to have a crush spacer collapsing, you'd have to have a lot of distortion of the whole case. If that happens you'll have other things in the rear to worry about.

 

[SteveWK]

The crush spacer is only used to set the pinion bearing pre-load. The problem I had and the reason I ended up using 3 of them to get the pre-lod set correctly was because I had the bearing treated by MicroBlue Racing. MicroBlue told me to use 1/2 of the factory pre-load spec for new bearings. I couldn't believe there was going to be that much of a difference. The first spacer I set pre-load to stock specs. It was obvious after doing this that it was way too tight. The pinion felt notchy as I turned the pinion by hand afterwards. The second spacer I went too far on the bearing pre-load. I had 5 in-lbs and barely turned the locknut and went to 10in-lbs, which was still too tight. On the third one I spent a considerable amount of time sneaking up on the 6 in-lb spec MicroBlue told me to use in the first place. If you go past the spec you're trying to set the pre-load at, you can NOT loosen the nut. You have to pull it apart and start over with a new crush spacer.

My total bearing pre-load for the rear with both the pinion and carrier bearing was 14 in-lbs, which is considerably lower than stock. This caused me to spend a lot of extra time making sure I had everything correct. I just couldn't believe the treatment of the bearings was reducing drag by that much, but when I set it to factory specs it was obvious that was too high. You could feel the bearings binding in the races at stock specs.

I never felt the whine in these rears comes from the crush spacer collapsing under load. Its job is only to hold forward to rear tension between the bearings. To start to have a crush spacer collapsing, you'd have to have a lot of distortion of the whole case. If that happens you'll have other things in the rear to worry about.

Check, understand. I will use crush sleeves for the install.

 

[Snoopy49]

Kurt,
Were you able to get to the minimum 140 lb-ft spec for the pinion nut?

Page 13 Step 6: Minimum torque required to tighten pinion flange nut to obtain pinion bearing preload, 140 lb-ft.

 

[Mojo88]

Check, understand. I will use crush sleeves for the install.

Why use a crush sleeve?? Why not use the solid spacer?

 

[Bad Company]

Kurt,
Were you able to get to the minimum 140 lb-ft spec for the pinion nut?

That is another story in of itself.

As you crush the spacer it actually takes around 300ft-lbs to start this. Now as you get closer to the desired bearing pre-load the torque to turn the locknut drops off. I actually ended up short of the 140ft-lbs by 10 ft-lbs, but to increase to that spec would cause the bearing pre-load to increase. So I'm going to run it at the 130ft-lbs and hope I don't have any issues with it. So far it help up to the dyno tuning with 175mph with 1100+ RWHP with no issues and a 150 or so street miles. I don't have most of the rear interior in the car yet, the rear is all spherical bearings for mounting points and at 70 mph when you shove the clutch in or cruising the rear is as quiet as it was from Ford. The blower whine is the noisiest thing of the car, until you step on the throttle and open the wastegates in the exhaust.......then holy #$&@ does it get loud LOL