americansteel
Banned
5.8l N/A said to be an option for the S550 platform line up. FORD earlier this year. FORD is also hinting around with doing a special edition mustang with the 6.2l engine.
Road & Track: Flat Crank 600hp 5.4 NA GT350
- Thread starter mustangc
- Start date
Ferrari does 700 N/A out of a 4.5 v8 with a tune and exhaust on 91 octane (458 Italia). 600 is certainly not a stretch by anyone's imagination. That number has been cleared by a solid 100 already -- at an insanely expensive price ($360k after your $15k exhaust and tune).
It's possible. But Ford won't put out a flat crank V8 anyway (they won't sell something that goes away from their classic sound). Besides, they're not going to deliver that kind of power from a GT350 anyway. If they do put something out, expect it to be similar power to a Boss, similar displacement, perhaps up a bit on overall power depending on what they do with the GT500.
1) At the end of the day -- the Mustang has a very iconic sound. They're not going to steer from that unless it's an extremely low production model like the Cobra R.
2) CAFE standards are getting stricter. They're going to be doing more power with less displacement (likely not a 6.2).
3) They will not try to eat into GT500 sales by putting power numbers close to it.
I could still seeing them use a 5.4 or 5.8 N/A -- but I don't think we'll see anything higher than that. And certainly not flat crank. Though... that would be pretty hot.
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although I agree with you about everything else. the 458 does not put down nowhere near 700 hp naturally aspirated more like 620-630 at the crank(still impressive from a 4.5 though). They usually gain 60-70 rwhp with headers, full exhaust, cat deletes, ecu tuning and airbox modifications. Most dyno between 450-470 stock and between 510-530 rwhp with the above mods.
Boss 302's are getting 550+ crank hp out of 5.0 liters. Yes that's with aftermarket parts but still that's 110 hp/liter. An extra 400cc with larger heads and cams to feed it the extra displacement that's knocking on 600 right there. With direct injection and the higher compression/timing you can run can probably more then make up for what the aftermarket has done to achieve that power level with todays roadrunners.
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I'm still think it's gonna be the TT 5.0 from the Cobra Jet Prototype at around 550 crank. With a tune + exhaust and the new weight of the car it will be a monster. Why else would Ford spend the money on testing it?
americansteel
Banned
It's possible. But Ford won't put out a flat crank V8 anyway (they won't sell something that goes away from their classic sound). Besides, they're not going to deliver that kind of power from a GT350 anyway. If they do put something out, expect it to be similar power to a Boss, similar displacement, perhaps up a bit on overall power depending on what they do with the GT500.
1) At the end of the day -- the Mustang has a very iconic sound. They're not going to steer from that unless it's an extremely low production model like the Cobra R.
2) CAFE standards are getting stricter. They're going to be doing more power with less displacement (likely not a 6.2).
3) They will not try to eat into GT500 sales by putting power numbers close to it.
I could still seeing them use a 5.4 or 5.8 N/A -- but I don't think we'll see anything higher than that. And certainly not flat crank. Though... that would be pretty hot.[/QUOTE]
not even happening. the current 5.0 will be the same engine that is going into the S550 platform. no changes in HP or TQ. the current 5.0 is pretty much maxxed out for N/A reliability.
the 6.2l will always make more power than what a 5.8l or a 5.0l could ever do and that is even at RPM ranges below 7000RPM.
the 5.4l has 2 years left of production. A N/A 5.8l will take its place in the new F150 and Expedition.
however ford will release the 5.8l in the mach1 and SVT cobra.
I don't know why there is rumors of ford going to flat crank when ford has never even mentioned that idea about their V8 engines.
im friends with a machinist that is cousins with a ford Executive who is also a share holder of FoMoCo, no 5.0l changes are coming.
1) At the end of the day -- the Mustang has a very iconic sound. They're not going to steer from that unless it's an extremely low production model like the Cobra R.
2) CAFE standards are getting stricter. They're going to be doing more power with less displacement (likely not a 6.2).
3) They will not try to eat into GT500 sales by putting power numbers close to it.
I could still seeing them use a 5.4 or 5.8 N/A -- but I don't think we'll see anything higher than that. And certainly not flat crank. Though... that would be pretty hot.[/QUOTE]
not even happening. the current 5.0 will be the same engine that is going into the S550 platform. no changes in HP or TQ. the current 5.0 is pretty much maxxed out for N/A reliability.
the 6.2l will always make more power than what a 5.8l or a 5.0l could ever do and that is even at RPM ranges below 7000RPM.
the 5.4l has 2 years left of production. A N/A 5.8l will take its place in the new F150 and Expedition.
however ford will release the 5.8l in the mach1 and SVT cobra.
I don't know why there is rumors of ford going to flat crank when ford has never even mentioned that idea about their V8 engines.
im friends with a machinist that is cousins with a ford Executive who is also a share holder of FoMoCo, no 5.0l changes are coming.
lol
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If you think Ford won't or can't deviate because of CAFE regs from their formula, especially on a limited model... There's some things you should consider:
CAFE standards are based on an average across manufacturers entire lineup divided between cars and trucks. The more fuel efficient regular cars they offer then the more room they have to play with on other models. The GT and V6 are pretty fuel efficient for just the Mustang which keeps averages high and allowed Ford to build a 662hp GT500, which just so happens to be fuel efficient enough to avoid the gas guzzler tax.
Ford can and will do whatever it wants with the Mustang. The next SVT could get like 10mpg and it probably wouldn't matter one bit because it accounts for so little volume of the total. The GT and lower models will stay traditional, but the top SVT designed models will always push their limits as a brand.
CAFE standards are based on an average across manufacturers entire lineup divided between cars and trucks. The more fuel efficient regular cars they offer then the more room they have to play with on other models. The GT and V6 are pretty fuel efficient for just the Mustang which keeps averages high and allowed Ford to build a 662hp GT500, which just so happens to be fuel efficient enough to avoid the gas guzzler tax.
Ford can and will do whatever it wants with the Mustang. The next SVT could get like 10mpg and it probably wouldn't matter one bit because it accounts for so little volume of the total. The GT and lower models will stay traditional, but the top SVT designed models will always push their limits as a brand.
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not even happening. the current 5.0 will be the same engine that is going into the S550 platform. no changes in HP or TQ. the current 5.0 is pretty much maxxed out for N/A reliability.
the 6.2l will always make more power than what a 5.8l or a 5.0l could ever do and that is even at RPM ranges below 7000RPM.
the 5.4l has 2 years left of production. A N/A 5.8l will take its place in the new F150 and Expedition.
however ford will release the 5.8l in the mach1 and SVT cobra.
I don't know why there is rumors of ford going to flat crank when ford has never even mentioned that idea about their V8 engines.
im friends with a machinist that is cousins with a ford Executive who is also a share holder of FoMoCo, no 5.0l changes are coming.[/QUOTE]
One of the most ridiculous posts I've ever read lol.
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They were trying to get it to replace the supercharged cobrajet but the NHRA wouldn't let them race in the super stock classes (which is what it was designed for) because it's not really related to a production model enough.
americansteel
Banned
One of the most ridiculous posts I've ever read lol.[/QUOTE]
really? because last time I was told the only changes coming to the mustang are a completely new platform and transmission changes. along with the GT350 replacing the GT500 mach1 coming back out and SVT cobra with the 5.8l in N/A form that was confirmed by ford. there's also rumors of this 5.2l voodoo motor that I couldn't get any validation on!
hey bottom line is the 5.0 could never do what the 6.2l can. Im going to listen to an executive before I look at rumors about a flat crank that is not even going to happen!
really? because last time I was told the only changes coming to the mustang are a completely new platform and transmission changes. along with the GT350 replacing the GT500 mach1 coming back out and SVT cobra with the 5.8l in N/A form that was confirmed by ford. there's also rumors of this 5.2l voodoo motor that I couldn't get any validation on!
hey bottom line is the 5.0 could never do what the 6.2l can. Im going to listen to an executive before I look at rumors about a flat crank that is not even going to happen!
americansteel
Banned
when the new mustang comes out im going to be the one LOL'ing at you.
I don't need rumors, I can go straight to the source. just like the new 2015 F150 will be released on oct. 12 2014.
2015 expedition released on oct. 12 2014.
To be fair, we all know Dyno's lie -- but the sheet I saw put it over 700 at the motor. Pretty much every bolt on possible was done to the car. I actually just talked to a friend of the guy today and he corrected me and stated that was running race fuel. I'm sure it's possible it's fudged. I haven't been in the vehicle or met the tuner
I did some browsing though and did see people hitting 620-630 -- perhaps race gas is the difference here? Or he's just lying. Or the dyno was wrong (kind of leaning this direction). I certainly saw the sheet...(easy to fudge -- but not sure why he would bother). I do understand CAFE standards are an average across their fleet of vehicles. The reason I mentioned it is because in general companies are improving the fuel efficiency of their vehicles to meet CAFE standards and customer demand. Fuel efficiency in sports cars are increasing across the board. I do not see that trend stopping. But yeah, for a limited production model (assuming the GT350 would be?) they can certainly do whatever they want here. I see them continuing to milk the 5.0 though. It's the best motor they've put in the high production # Mustangs that I can re-call in a very long time. They'll milk it as long as it's competitive.
Ford loves changing stuff though. And it's 50 years. We'll see. I just don't think they will steer from the sound. Anything else is fair game in my eyes.
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americansteel
Banned
I do understand CAFE standards are an average across their fleet of vehicles. The reason I mentioned it is because in general companies are improving the fuel efficiency of their vehicles to meet CAFE standards and customer demand. Fuel efficiency in sports cars are increasing across the board. I do not see that trend stopping. But yeah, for a limited production model (assuming the GT350 would be?) they can certainly do whatever they want here. I see them continuing to milk the 5.0 though. It's the best motor they've put in the high production # Mustangs that I can re-call in a very long time. They'll milk it as long as it's competitive.
Ford loves changing stuff though. And it's 50 years. We'll see. I just don't think they will steer from the sound. Anything else is fair game in my eyes.[/QUOTE]
the 5.0 isn't going to change any time soon. the only changes are coming is the platform and transmissions.
if fuel efficiency is a concern then there will have to be weight dropped off the car, you can only make the 5.0 fuel efficient for so much! adding DI will some what add fuel efficiency but how much exactly? we wont know till its brought out.
the GT350 will be built on the mustang line so will be the Mach1. the SVT cobra will of course be handed off to SVT. the 5.8l will be a production engine as well.
the sound will be the same.
Ford loves changing stuff though. And it's 50 years. We'll see. I just don't think they will steer from the sound. Anything else is fair game in my eyes.[/QUOTE]
the 5.0 isn't going to change any time soon. the only changes are coming is the platform and transmissions.
if fuel efficiency is a concern then there will have to be weight dropped off the car, you can only make the 5.0 fuel efficient for so much! adding DI will some what add fuel efficiency but how much exactly? we wont know till its brought out.
the GT350 will be built on the mustang line so will be the Mach1. the SVT cobra will of course be handed off to SVT. the 5.8l will be a production engine as well.
the sound will be the same.
I'll happily take the exact same 5.0L in the GT model but with stronger internals and a different (better) tranny for the manuals . Knock off maybe 150lb and get rid of some clunky noises it makes in the drive train.
I like how they are acting like revving to 7000 rpms is spectacular and unbelievable when the current bosses will do 7700 rpms, and 8100 with the revised crank trigger ring. Am I missing something? Also, unless it has a new block with wider bores, they are going to have to increase the stroke making it even less capable of revving than the current motors... Additionally, developing yet another new motor is going to cost a LOT of money and pairing those costs with the money already spent on creating the next generation, where are they getting money to do this? Seems like another one of those bs fairy tale rumors to me, but I guess we'll have to wait and see.
Qutoed the wrong person :facepalm:
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americansteel
Banned
my machinist has a cousin that works for ford.
there is no flat crank destined for the 5.0. there will be no power gains for the 5.0. ford is tossing the idea around for direct injection, how soon will that be? I wasn't told. ford had stated that they brought the 5.0 out with high compression big flowing heads and a slight increase in displacement. ford also stated the 5.0 is already maxxed out for N/A performance wise as a reliable street driven car. (even though its not really efficient for a 3600lbs car) that was a statement that is 5 almost years old now. the 6.2l was originally going to be a mustang engine, but ford already knowing that the 50th ann was coming soon they decided to go with a 5.0 for size and a historical standpoint. the current engine was designed in 10' for the new S550, several other reasons too.
My neighbor who has an unlce who has a room mate whos brother said that....
americansteel
Banned
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