So you want Brembo brakes

[stang99x]

Just an FYI for those looking to buy these. They were on sale at autozone for $79 + $30 core. After 20% off my total shipped was $198. I received them in 3 days. Like an idiot I went and purchased cross over tubes from the link posted earlier before checking. To my surprise they already came with cross over tubes attached and two bags of hardware.

They definitely did not feel concerned about tossing them in a box without protection. One box came with a big hole in it. It doesn't seem like there was any real damage to the calipers beside some blemishes. Overall I am excited to get some pads and rotors to put these on! Thanks stang99x for the detailed post. View attachment 88240

Glad it worked out for you. Seems they begun including crossover tubes on the rebuilds. I wish mine had come with them!

 

[Coz]

I had bought a pair of the Cardone "remanufactured" calipers from RockAuto. While they looked ok, they did not have the FoMoCo or Brembo raised lettering nor any of the casting numbers on the inside edge of each caliper. The icing on the cake was the little sticker near the main label that said "Made in China". While they may work ok on the street, I am taking mine to Track Days. Who knows what type of aluminum is used in these calipers and if it it is processed/treated to the same standards as the ones made in Italy. I looked at the price of the Ford stocked Brembos from Tasca Parts (about $550 a pair) and decided that trying to save about $350 with the Chinese made items was not a good idea on such critical safety items.

 

[stang99x]

I had bought a pair of the Cardone "remanufactured" calipers from RockAuto. While they looked ok, they did not have the FoMoCo or Brembo raised lettering nor any of the casting numbers on the inside edge of each caliper. The icing on the cake was the little sticker near the main label that said "Made in China". While they may work ok on the street, I am taking mine to Track Days. Who knows what type of aluminum is used in these calipers and if it it is processed/treated to the same standards as the ones made in Italy. I looked at the price of the Ford stocked Brembos from Tasca Parts (about $550 a pair) and decided that trying to save about $350 with the Chinese made items was not a good idea on such critical safety items.View attachment 88263

You do realize the reason the reman ones are (or were) so hard to find is that they can't be rebuilt until a core is turned in right? And beyond that, Brembo doesn't control the base materials for the North American market. An excerpt you'd be interested in...."Except in the North American market, Brembo owns the foundries which produce their initial materials and supply the manufacturing plants. In all other markets the company controls the entire production system from raw materials through distribution." Of course, I don't use Rock Auto. There's something to be said for being able to physically walk into a store if you have a problem vs email and phone support only.
My cardone calipers have performed flawless for nearly two years of driving it like I stole it.

 

[SVTag]

Thanks for the heads up! I was going to wait on these, but pulled the trigger b/c of the sale. Also you can get an additional $25 off with code PAYPAL25. Not sure when the code expires, though. Got mine for $206 shipped after tax with the core charges. Would be $146 after cores. Pretty good deal!

Just an FYI for those looking to buy these. They were on sale at autozone for $79 + $30 core. After 20% off my total shipped was $198. I received them in 3 days. Like an idiot I went and purchased cross over tubes from the link posted earlier before checking. To my surprise they already came with cross over tubes attached and two bags of hardware.

They definitely did not feel concerned about tossing them in a box without protection. One box came with a big hole in it. It doesn't seem like there was any real damage to the calipers beside some blemishes. Overall I am excited to get some pads and rotors to put these on! Thanks stang99x for the detailed post.

 

[Coz]

You do realize the reason the reman ones are (or were) so hard to find is that they can't be rebuilt until a core is turned in right? And beyond that, Brembo doesn't control the base materials for the North American market. An excerpt you'd be interested in...."Except in the North American market, Brembo owns the foundries which produce their initial materials and supply the manufacturing plants. In all other markets the company controls the entire production system from raw materials through distribution." Of course, I don't use Rock Auto. There's something to be said for being able to physically walk into a store if you have a problem vs email and phone support only.
My cardone calipers have performed flawless for nearly two years of driving it like I stole it.

If yours are 2 years old they may be actual rebuilds based on legit cores and your calipers may have the FoMoCo and Brembo casting markings. The latest versions are totally devoid of markings and are brand new manufactured items. There is not even a scratch on the mounting bosses.

The extract you quoted is from Wikipedia. Beyond the fact that one must always take what is posted in Wikipedia with caution, I'm not sure about it's relevancy with respect to Mustangs since the Ford P/N Brembos I received are marked as "Made in Italy" on the box.

Also, the info on Wikipedia is a bit dated:
http://www.brembo.com/en/company/news/first-pour-homer-(2)

My concern about these reproduction calipers is that there have been no tests regarding their performance under extreme temp conditions, and their durability after numerous heat cycles. For me, it was not worth taking a risk for the $350 price difference.

I'm not sure what your "driving it like you stole it" translates to. I'm guessing most thieves don't use brakes too heavily...

For those that will be using these unmarked repros for street use and perhaps occasional blasts down a 1/4 mile they may suffice. Just leave them naked and don't be a poser by slapping a Brembo sticker on them.

For those taking them on a road course beyond the Novice level - buyer beware.

At best a mere $30 core charge is just a token attempt to legitimize these calipers. At worst they'll get an unsuspecting soul to send in real Brembos that they will sell to someone offline for a lot more than $30.

The old adage "you get what you pay for" applies.

 

[fishpick]

@Coz - totally fair on the "you get what you pay for" - but - if you look at the most recent Ford part - BR3Z2B120B - there are also no Brembo or Ford raised / cast markings... they are just painted a flatish black and stenciled with the red Brembo logo.

Personally, I hate this thread, because it is CLEARLY going to make me spend more money on this car... one way or another!

 

[Coz]

I did get BR3Z-2B120-B along with it's other side BR3Z-2B121-B from Tasca about a month ago. Both had the casted markings. In fact, had to send 2B121 back since the box was damaged in shipping and the finish was blemished. The one they shipped to replace it also had markings. Pics below.

 

[WhiTriCobra]

I might have the knocks offs on mine but guess what...they perform awesome and 10X's better than the stock GT brakes.
Also the poser remark...doesn't make sense. If they look and act 100% just like the real brembos...who cares if you put a brembo sticker on them. Now if you have GT brakes and put the ugly fake plastic cover on it that says Brembo...okay. that I understand.
hell 99% of the stuff on ford says made in Mexico...does that make anyone stop buying their parts?

 

[Coz]

Everyone has their own level of ethical standards. If someone would have no problem buying a fake Rolex watch or fake Coach handbag, etc. and represent them as the real thing, that's their choice.

The real acid test comes up when you sell your car. Will you tell prospective buyers they are real Brembos or just say they are "Brembos" without anymore detail?

 

[fishpick]

@Coz -
Pretty sure they license the design to folks to manufacture as well as produce their own. Yours are Fords version of the licensed design, ergo the Ford cast.
Taking a licensed "Brembo" sold as a Duralast and sticking a logo on it after its painted is about the same thing IMHO...
Pretty sure if AAP was selling gray market "Brembo" units - there would be a lawyer letter all up in their stuff and it would have stopped long long ago... totally could be wrong here - but in the age of lawyers I find it hard to imagine otherwise.
But to each his own!


Sent from my iPhone using svtperformance.com

 

[Coz]

fishpick - love your build thread. Best of luck with your project.

These copies are not licensed versions. Brembo doesn't license anyone to make their items. Even the parts from Ford aren't licensed to Forf. Brembo was contracted by Ford to make them (hence the Made in Italy label) and part of the deal was to include the FoMoCo letters in the casting. And you would think that Cardone, AutoZone, or RockAuto would tout that these are officially licensed versions. Yet none of them even mention that these are Brembos. They may make you think that when you're looking at their part listing and are asked to specify if you have a non-Brembo or Brembo equipped Mustang but that is as close as they get. Sometimes the pics on their website will show the rear of the caliper with the Brembo & FoMoCo markings along with fine print saying "Product appearance and finish may vary, but fit and function remain the same."

Next, at a cost of $55-$79 before core fees, do you really think that would cover manufacturing, distribution costs PLUS a license fee to Brembo? I find it hard to believe. Even adding in the token core fee wouldn't cover a license fee.

Finally, please see the info in these links:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...need-to-know-about-counterfeit-brembo-brakes/

http://www.brembo.com/en/company/news/counterfighting

http://www.brembo.com/en/company/news/brembo-puts-the-brakes-on-counterfeit-products

I realize that everyone really, REALLY hopes they are legit, especially those that have already bought them, but it ain't so.

 

[fishpick]

fishpick - love your build thread. Best of luck with your project.

These copies are not licensed versions. Brembo doesn't license anyone to make their items. Even the parts from Ford aren't licensed to Forf. Brembo was contracted by Ford to make them (hence the Made in Italy label) and part of the deal was to include the FoMoCo letters in the casting. And you would think that Cardone, AutoZone, or RockAuto would tout that these are officially licensed versions. Yet none of them even mention that these are Brembos. They may make you think that when you're looking at their part listing and are asked to specify if you have a non-Brembo or Brembo equipped Mustang but that is as close as they get. Sometimes the pics on their website will show the rear of the caliper with the Brembo & FoMoCo markings along with fine print saying "Product appearance and finish may vary, but fit and function remain the same."

Next, at a cost of $55-$79 before core fees, do you really think that would cover manufacturing, distribution costs PLUS a license fee to Brembo? I find it hard to believe. Even adding in the token core fee wouldn't cover a license fee.

Finally, please see the info in these links:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...need-to-know-about-counterfeit-brembo-brakes/

http://www.brembo.com/en/company/news/counterfighting

http://www.brembo.com/en/company/news/brembo-puts-the-brakes-on-counterfeit-products

I realize that everyone really, REALLY hopes they are legit, especially those that have already bought them, but it ain't so.

Again - fair enough...

Did you get a card with your calipers to confirm they are legit like Brembos site says you will get - and they were just calipers, right, breaking #2 on the second link you sent.

I'm not denying your points - but the AAP listing for the Duralast version does say "Brembo" in the listing - so, while I completely agree with you about costs and pricing - I do have a bit of cognitive dissonance regarding AAP selling these as Brembos without Brembo proper shutting them down - especially given their rhetoric about stopping counterfeits...

Something somewhere isn't making sense...

 

[Coz]

AAP (Wearever) says "with Brembo Brake System" meaning for a car equipped with the Brembos, not that these are Brembos.

Autozone (Duralast) first asks you:"
Narrow Your Results
Vehicle Options

• Brembo brake system (2)
• Except Brembo brake system (4)

then they say:
Application: Brembo brake system

RockAuto (A1-Cardone) says the same as AAP "with Brembo Brake System"

They are all careful to avoid saying these are Brembos yet allow you to assume so by mentioning that the application is for Brembo equipped cars. I'm not a lawyer and can't answer your specific question about lawsuits. However, I know other companies have been unsuccessful shutting down the knock-off manufacturers since they can change names and locations (it's like Whack-A-Mole) plus the bureacracy of the Chinese legal system. And that's for items marked with the name/logo of the copied company, unlike these calipers. The domestic distributors may get away with it since the items are neither marked nor represented as Brembos (other than the association to the OEM application). Maybe Brembo doesn't have a patent on it's particular design - its lot like 4-piston brakes are unique to Brembo. And wouldn't Ford, GM, Chrysler would have stopped knock-off copies of water pumps, fenders, bumpers, headlights, etc., if they could?

By the way, all of the auto parts companies get them from A1-Cardone with their own labels on the box. Even the pics on each site are the same.

It is also interesting to note that NONE of the auto parts company sites have any reviews for these calipers... I wonder if they are suppressing any comments in case someone points out they are copies.

There is plenty to indicate these are knock-offs. There is nothing supporting they are made or licensed by Brembo other than wishful thinking, speculation, or tortured rationalization.

Occam's Razor principle applies:
http://www.themezoom-neuroeconomics.com/Occam's_Razor

 

[Coz]

Forgot to answer your question about the anti-conterfeiting card with my calipers. Since they were sold by Ford as an OEM item instead of directly by Brembo, the card does not apply.

Tasca is an authorized dealer for Ford with a sterling reputation and I must trust that they provided me legitimate Ford/Brembo calipers.

The 3rd link in my email explains the card in more detail and for cars it only applies to discs and to Gran Turismo kits. Neither of these apply in this situation.

 

[fishpick]

Forgot to answer your question about the anti-conterfeiting card with my calipers. Since they were sold by Ford as an OEM item instead of directly by Brembo, the card does not apply.

Tasca is an authorized dealer for Ford with a sterling reputation and I must trust that they provided me legitimate Ford/Brembo calipers.

The 3rd link in my email explains the card in more detail and for cars it only applies to discs and to Gran Turismo kits. Neither of these apply in this situation.

Ok... but... are you gonna paint them a better color than flat black?


Sent from my iPhone using the svtperformance.com mobile app

 

[CobraBob]

Interesting thread and even more interesting comments from Coz. Pretty balanced and informative on both sides IMO. People can now make a better, more informed decision as to what they buy and install.

 

[JDos1]

I emailed A1 Cardone directly about this several months ago and they assured me that they ARE in fact actual Brembos. Unfortunately I no longer have the email as I never figured this argument would arise.

My best guess would be that they shave off the FOMOCO/Brembo markings in order to avoid any legal issues. Also, my next best guess is that the Made in China sticker either refers to the idea that they send them to China for a cheap rebuild labor wise or that the rebuild kit (seals, etc) were made in China.

 

[JDos1]

I just resubmitted an email inquiry about this. I will post up the response as soon as I hear (another) reply.

 

[Coz]

The knock-offs are pristine. There are no grinding marks or any other evidence of tampering with an OEM Brembo caliper.

As mentioned before, even the caliper mounting bosses are unblemished. These calipers have never been mounted on a car.

 

[OX1]

Was some talk about the 2015, 4 pistons, which I had bought as take-offs in 15 when Rousch was practically giving them away. Decided against them as they are huge, even compared to 2014 4 piston Brembos. I can get away with 3/8 spacer with 14's, but 15's would require 3/4"spacer which was too much for me.........Some pics..

14's

15's

With 15's, using 3/4 inch nuts as spacers and a 255 tire on a knockoff bullet
18 X 9, tires stick out way too much.

And to add to the knockoff vs real Brembo disucssion. There is no way the Rockauto "brembos" are rebuilt in any way. They are brand new castings. A guy on the S197 board tried them and claimed he had increased pedal travel. I've heard that due to these calipers being stiffer (the real one's), they shortened pedal travel (even though total area of caliper pistons increases).

I wondered if knockoff material was not the same grade, making caliper not as stiff. Anyway, I own both sets and if I don't like the knockoffs, going to get some wheel that fits with the 15's and use them. 15's definitely have larger pistons than 14's too.