Or it could be a positive for the same exact reason and guve people a reason to look at a Mustang where they wouldnt have before.
The Flat Plane Crank explained
- Thread starter specizripn
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Or it could be a positive for the same exact reason and guve people a reason to look at a Mustang where they wouldnt have before.
This should be copy, pasted and quoted in the original post. The flat plane crank explanation was spot on fantastic...
...we should also be made more aware of what you are suggesting...
Would it be possible for someone to make an aftermarket flat plane crank for an existing cross plane engine such as a 302, modular, or Coyote, granted matching cam(s) are used to accommodate the different firing order. Or are there differences in the block and cylinder layout that would make it impossible for the two different types of cranks to interchange?
Curious.
Homer
Curious.
Homer
BossHoss
New Member
I don't think I would be "put off" if my Mustang sounded like this...
Engine sound Ferrari 458 Italia - YouTube
It doesn't have the nice lub dub lub dub idle of a cross plane V8 but listen to that high RPM wail when it gets opened up.
It makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand on end.
Sound is very tunable, just as you would imagine.
Check out this 358cid lingenfelter flat plane v8, it does have a little twang, but isn't like the tuned in sound of the 4.5L in the 458 Italia.
Lingenfelter 358 CID LSx Flat Plane Crank Engine - YouTube
http://youtu.be/PEcnq3Is0Q4
http://youtu.be/MJ_qucrWZFs
Now mind you I've never been in love with ohv sound in general (it can be epic though, header/cam ls7!) but these give an idea that the pitch/sound is very tunable.
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Lots of great vids on a flat plane design, once there, search their YouTube video search tab for "flat plane"
http://m.youtube.com/user/LingenfelterVideo
http://youtu.be/5SHRPOo31Xg
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Video showing a v8 flat plane
Ferrari does it differently to get that pitched Ferrari sound, America could easily fall in love with the more familiar (brassier) sound of a decently angled v8 with a flat plane
http://youtu.be/2AzrOPPZFzs
Check out this 358cid lingenfelter flat plane v8, it does have a little twang, but isn't like the tuned in sound of the 4.5L in the 458 Italia.
Lingenfelter 358 CID LSx Flat Plane Crank Engine - YouTube
http://youtu.be/PEcnq3Is0Q4
http://youtu.be/MJ_qucrWZFs
Now mind you I've never been in love with ohv sound in general (it can be epic though, header/cam ls7!) but these give an idea that the pitch/sound is very tunable.
-------
Lots of great vids on a flat plane design, once there, search their YouTube video search tab for "flat plane"
http://m.youtube.com/user/LingenfelterVideo
http://youtu.be/5SHRPOo31Xg
------
Video showing a v8 flat plane
Ferrari does it differently to get that pitched Ferrari sound, America could easily fall in love with the more familiar (brassier) sound of a decently angled v8 with a flat plane
http://youtu.be/2AzrOPPZFzs
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If Ford built something that sounded like that in a Fiesta, I'd buy it!!! Made me horny! :banana:
The Ferrari looks and performs nice however it sounds like crap.
Seeing so many magazines say Ford is working on a flat plane crank for a future Mustang makes me think Ford is seriously working towards producing an engine with a flat plane crank.
[video=youtube;xT-NTGo4dU4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xT-NTGo4dU4[/video].
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I think we may see both the Shelby GT350, and the Shelby GT500 in the S550 platform.
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So several magazines have mentioned the possibility of a "Flat Plane Crank" which most people don't know very much about, and some recognize it as the style of V8 used by Ferrari and in the new Lotus, but that's pretty much all they know. Well Im going to try and explain how it works, the problems that go with it, the benefits, some history, and whether or not I believe it would be feasible for Ford to put one in a mustang.
WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE?
Now the first thing one might notice is that the flat plane; also called a 180* crank, doesn't have the large counter weights. This means that the crankshaft is much lighter, but I'll get into that later. Now the design for this style of crankshaft is very different than the cross plane, so you couldn't just swap a flat plane crank into a standard coyote, it will require a new engine design entirely.
IS IT BETTER?
It has its benefits. Due to the design of the crankshaft, a flat-plane V8 can have an alternating firing order, meaning the pistons will fire R-L-R-L-R-L-R-L. This means that the exhaust manifolds will be able to more efficiently scavenge exhaust gasses thus improving efficiency. In order to properly scavenge with a Cross Plane crank you will need a "Bundle of Snakes" style exhaust manifold, which is more expensive and very difficult for packaging constraints. In addition to the scavenging efficiency, the lighter crankshaft means the engine can rev quicker, higher, and make more power. Counter balance weights add a large amount of rotational weight, which means the engine has to spend power moving the crank before the power can be put to the ground, and the force required is amplified the higher you go into the rev range. With a flat-plane, the engine can rev easier, and will be able to keep revving higher, as well as free up some power that would normally be wasted turning the crank. I would also like to add that cross plane engines are technically more refined than the flat plane due to the weights and balancing properties.
WHERE IS THE TORQUE?!
One of the first things people notice when comparing engine styles is that flat plane V8s typically don't make as much torque as an american V8. Now although this is somewhat controversial, there is a good reason that most don't make the same torque. Typically these engines are in exotic supercars that rev to the moon. The motors are tiny with a short stroke to aid in high rpm abilities. Now, if you ever paid attention in science class as a kid, or if you've used a breaker bar, you will understand that more leverage means more turning force(torque). The same logic applies to a motor. A longer stroke will aid in more torque, and the tiny cross planes typically have very short strokes. While this is not the only factor, it is too complicated to point at one cause, but a flat-plane can make just as much torque as a cross plane, it comes down to how the engineers design it, and how much torque they want to give up for higher rpm capabilities.
BALANCING ISSUES?
Many people are aware that without counter weights it is very hard to balance an engine, and a bigger flat plane, would be very difficult to do. I keep hearing people say it is impossible. Now those people are also forgetting that Ford managed to balance a 3 cylinder engine... If they can do that, I'm sure with a enough time and light enough rods and pistons, ford will be able to manage the task.
HISTORY
For those of you who don't know, Ford has already built a flat plane crank V8. In the 60's the Ford Motor Company was testing race cars with 180* cranks, but set the idea to the side. If ford could do it in the late 60's, there is no doubt they could create one stable enough for a road car nearly 50 years later.
DRIVABILITY ISSUES
Another problem with the flat planes, is the tendency to vibrate like hell. This is a result of the difficulty to balance such a motor. Now with research and development this can be eliminated entirely. The Ferrari 458 Italia has absolutely no vibration and the motor is only a liter smaller than the rumored engine for the specialty (GT350/Cobra/Boss) mustang, which means that it is possible to balance one well enough that it isn't even noticeable.
IS IT POSSIBLE WE WILL SEE ONE IN A FUTURE MUSTANG?
Is it possible? Certainly. Will we see one? Maybe. Ford has the ability, experience, and ingenuity required to create such an engine, but will it be worth it financially for them? I don't know. The answer to that may lie in the Euro market. If Ford were to ever bring a V8 into the European market, this would definitely be the one to do it with. Many Americans would also love the high revving; powerful motor, and it would definitely spice things up in the world of American V8s. The only way it would be worth engineering is if they could keep the motor around for a couple decades. If they want to do this, everything will have to be perfect, which could explain the rumor that Ford would wait a few years after the initial release of the S550s to release this engine choice, so they can enhance it.
DISCLAIMER
I gave it my best shot in hopes to help clear things up for people, so everyone can stop getting off-topic on threads with Q and A. If you have any questions, I can try my best, maybe someone can chime in, or google is your friend. If anything is inaccurate feel free to correct me. I do not claim ownership of any pictures or information presented, nor do I claim accuracy or accountability to what I have said. :beer:
Where'd you get the info on the flat plane crankshaft engine Ford made in the '60s. I'm curious about it.
Me no like exhaust note 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDCNfwrMW_U
Me like this exhaust note
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ch5Dx2ftTwg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDCNfwrMW_U
Me like this exhaust note
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ch5Dx2ftTwg
I had an Engineering teacher give me an article on it. I'll see if I can dig it up for you
Just thought this needed to be bumped, some of the comments need to be re-lived. ;-)
Im curious how the FPC would handle boost since its a lighter crank.
Ive been thinking the exact same thing.. since my knowledge is limited on the subject of flat planed cranks and boost.
Well its Official 2016 GT350 w/ 5.2L flat plane crank Love the body work on this.
http://www.stangtv.com/features/car-features/official-debut-the-all-new-ford-mustang-gt350/
http://www.stangtv.com/features/car-features/official-debut-the-all-new-ford-mustang-gt350/
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