TVS vs WHIPPLE

[MalcolmV8]

Thanks for the comparison. I can relate to the 2.9 Whipple "laggy" on the stock 3.5" pulley. Calling it laggy I think is to much but rather the instant torque hit like you get on the Eaton is not quite as violent. As the RPMS climb it wakes up though. Reminds me of a turbo.

My car sees 20 lbs of boost. Most guys say they see 18 ~ 19 lbs of boost. Maybe it's because I have the crusher intake, TB and giant air filter, not sure.

However that's on my straight 91 pump gas tune. With water/meth spraying I turned up the timing from 3K rpms up and it makes a massive difference. The blower hits hard and violent and is so much more responsive. I can't wait till I get the smaller 3" pulley.
Right now I'm data logging around 24 degrees timing around 6100 RPMs.

 

[Schlangenbisse]

Awesome numbers/comparison. So basically if one wants to make ridiculous numbers, he should go E85 and spin the sh*t out the 2.9? Anything less and the TVS can do just as well?

 

[Senkak]

After a lot of contemplating and discussions I switched out my 2.9 Whipple for a TVS. Most of the data is probably already known by most, but the biggest take away here is if you’re just going to run pump gas, 93 Octane, and primarily hit the streets, than this might work for you.

I’m just an average “JOE” with pump gas comparisons.Took my car up to Bob Kurgan and what I rec’d back was NIGHT and DAY difference. I have completed my winter project early.

For me, dreams of a bigger motor and E85 kind of came to end after the shenanigans with the Swamp Whore known as, IronHand Racing aka Cory Kolk. And also retirement from the Army came faster for me so my budget is not nearly what it use to be.

I could have gotten the TVS w/ GT500 throttle body but decided to save the cash difference (about $1000.00) and go with the Accufab TB inlet and reuse my existing throttle body. (The money I saved could be used for custom cams,headers,etc someday)

I run 93 (with a little Torco to be safe), so that netted me 19#’s on the 2.9 and 20#’s on the TVS.

If you want a “seat of the pants” comparison…..the TVS, as all have said, comes on IMMEDIATLEY as soon as the sole of the shoe meets the gas pedal. With the 2.9 @ 19#’s (mid to upper RPMS) of boost, the blower lags. BIGGER IS NOT ALWAYS BETTER!

My wife’s Comp Orange has a 2.3 Whipple @21#’s, so I have felt firsthand the “seat of the pants” comparison between all three blowers .

Here is my setup:
TVS/2.8 pulley/Accufab TB
Stock Lower
stock manifolds, o/r Xpipe, LM2 Catback
JLT HB Intake
Sct3000
Lethal Return Fuel System
80# Inj.
Spec3+ clutch

Setup was the same except with the 2.9 I ran a JLT RAM AIR CAI

All runs on a DynoJet.
Same tuner…Mr Kurgan (thanks again:thumbsup
Car runs and idles just like stock.

We also tuned the car with the 2.6 pulley and race fuel.





2.9 Whipple vs 2.3 TVS Dyno Graph~ Power the same gained TQ with the TVS

Pretty happy at this point, car is a blast to drive :beer:

I am very happy that you are pleased with the VMP TVS.:rockon:
You and I spoke a lot over that past 6 months about the swap.

 

[MalcolmV8]

OP - few questions.

1) In your opinion does the 2.3 Whipple on your wife's car perform every bit as good as your 2.9 Whipple did on pump gas? I wasn't clear you just said you've felt your wife's car's 2.3 Whipple pull but didn't really compare.

2) After looking closely at your dyno graph I can't help but wonder how you are feeling any difference? about 1 1/2 HP difference and 39 ft/lbs of torque. In my experience at these HP levels you can't even feel that seat of the pants. When I was initially learning about water/meth and making some mistakes along the way I dyno'd about 50 whp losses on some combos that while running on the street I could not tell at all. Makes me think you're not really feeling more power but rather feeling the onset of "hit" of power coming on in a more sudden way? Or how would you say it?

3) How much timing did you have in your 2.9 Whipple tune?

BTW - wish I had a TVS to swap back and forth with my 2.9 and see how I like the comparisons Maybe one day.

 

[BMR Tech]

2) After looking closely at your dyno graph I can't help but wonder how you are feeling any difference? about 1 1/2 HP difference and 39 ft/lbs of torque. In my experience at these HP levels you can't even feel that seat of the pants. When I was initially learning about water/meth and making some mistakes along the way I dyno'd about 50 whp losses on some combos that while running on the street I could not tell at all. Makes me think you're not really feeling more power but rather feeling the onset of "hit" of power coming on in a more sudden way? Or how would you say it?.

For more than 1/2 of the curve, the TVS curve is making 50+ more TQ, at the rear tires.

That is a huge SOTP difference, even at 600-700 hp.

 

[SYMach1]

What did it make on the 2.6 race gas tune?

 

[MikesCobra]

Thanks for posting this and sharing your real world experience with both blowers. Good info and a dyno sheet to back it up... The TVS and Whipple is still going round for round in my head. This only makes the choice even harder... lol thanks, good stuff.. now post some 1/4 miles!

 

[c6zhombre]

For more than 1/2 of the curve, the TVS curve is making 50+ more TQ, at the rear tires.

That is a huge SOTP difference, even at 600-700 hp.

I agree....that's plenty of low and mid range tq improvement to make a legit seat of the pants difference while driving. But....the bigger question to me comes back to the timing application and at what point the tuner is feeding that timing. The tvs seems to allow the tuners to apply more timing and earlier in the rpm band on gasoline than other blowers. This is key to get that flat and peak tq advantage over another setup. If you can't apply the timing before 4000...you won't see the big tq number. I bet by 5800 these 2 blowers are applying similar timing...hence the reason the hp numbers are very close.

Get either of these blowers on E85 and the results low, mid, and high rpm would be much more consistent. I know my 2.3 whipple makes gobs of low end tq...but it's also seeing big timing way down low in the band....then carries it all the way thru.

 

[brian97cobra]

just for comparison my 2.3L whipple dyno sheet with 93 octane and 20.9 psi. mine is done in SAE I noticed his is in STD which is about 10-20 hp more through out the entire range. would have loved to see what the 2.9L would have put down with 21-23 psi.

 

[MalcolmV8]

just for comparison my 2.3L whipple dyno sheet with 93 octane and 20.9 psi. mine is done in SAE I noticed his is in STD which is about 15-20 hp more through out the entire range. would have loved to see what the 2.9L would have put down with 21-23 psi.

How much timing was in there?

 

[brian97cobra]

How much timing was in there?

im honestly not sure. bob kurgan did the tuning and I wanna say it was 16-18 degree's at the most he said but that was like 3 years ago.

 

[MalcolmV8]

im honestly not sure. bob kurgan did the tuning and I wanna say it was 16-18 degree's at the most he said but that was like 3 years ago.

That's cool. Just curious. Looked pretty stout for pump gas.

 

[brian97cobra]

I made nearly identical power on race gas vs pump gas lol

here is the graph for comparison

 

[MalcolmV8]

I made nearly identical power on race gas vs pump gas lol

here is the graph for comparison

That's weird. Only thing I can think of is additional timing was not added?

 

[brian97cobra]

That's weird. Only thing I can think of is additional timing was not added?

no he added timing he said. but the car was not responding to it.

he said it was "maxed" out

I trust what he said and it made damn good power. 600+ rwhp is no wimp

 

[c6zhombre]

no he added timing he said. but the car was not responding to it.

he said it was "maxed" out

I trust what he said and it made damn good power. 600+ rwhp is no wimp

I bet what he meant by "maxed out" was your fuel pump, injector, or maf was maxed. If you had adequate fuel delivery, I'm sure the motor would respond on the race gas to 20+ degrees a lot more than +9/+9

 

[brian97cobra]

I bet what he meant by "maxed out" was your fuel pump, injector, or maf was maxed. If you had adequate fuel delivery, I'm sure the motor would respond on the race gas to 20+ degrees a lot more than +9/+9

doubt it I asked him that

had dual gt pumps, dual fpdm's, 60lbs injectors, ba2600

trust me I was expecting like 640-650 on race gas.

but it was what it was...

anyways back to OP topic I don't wanna hijack his thread :beer:

 

[1320 Junkie]

2.9 whipple and 2.3 Tvs terminators should do some heads up racing for us on same boost and same fuel

 

[1320 Junkie]

For more than 1/2 of the curve, the TVS curve is making 50+ more TQ, at the rear tires.

That is a huge SOTP difference, even at 600-700 hp.

This....^^^^^^

Btw it is NO different on a 5.4 GT500..I did the same comparison with a 2.9 running the same boost...and at the time my car was handicapped with stock headers to the 2.9's longtubes. The TVS dragged the 2.9's ass to 5, 800 rpms tq & hp wise..then the 2.9 finally caught up and edged me out at 6, 500 where my pull was over at 6100. After I did longtubes the TVS dragged it even worse an out pulled it to 6300 my current shift point. Both were at 19-20psi pump gas 22* timing

 

[04cobradude]

went from 16 degrees to as much as 23 degrees with race gas with minimal changes... i believe the motor was already hurt when it came in since the old tuner had nearly 22degrees of timing with 20lbs and pump gas lol..