Two races, same cars. O I have 4.30s, the otherne race

[DVJ38]

Figured I'd post since the results are interesting. Other than the gear change the only difference is which car the camera man was in. When I had the 4.30s the camera man was in my car, when I had the 2.73s the camera man was in the S4.

4.30's in the cobra. Camera man in the cobra
[youtube_browser]FEMj-Hn0Lmo&list=PL402CCF1A6BDAF6E4&index=5[/youtube_browser]

2.73's in the cobra. Camera man in the S4
[youtube_browser]qbyPC_JATjI&feature=feedu[/youtube_browser]

op:

edit: no idea why the thread title got screwed up, it DID say: Two races, same cars. One I have 4.30s, the other race 2.73s. but anywho...

 

[Bad03gt]

Lol big diff

 

[STAMPEDE3]

How much the camera man weigh?

200lbs?

A 400lb weight swing can make that much difference.

 

[Mystic-SVT]

I'm guessing in the vid with 4.30s you started the 40 roll in 2nd gear and the one with 2.73s you started the 40 roll in 1st correct? Also the passenger weight change will make a diff.

 

[DVJ38]

How much the camera man weigh?

200lbs?

A 400lb weight swing can make that much difference.

Ya, about 200 lbs. I can see it making a difference, but maybe not that much. Even if you think the only deciding factor is the weight difference, it's interesting that gears only seem to matter from a dig. Once you get going it doesn't really seem to matter.

I'm guessing in the vid with 4.30s you started the 40 roll in 2nd gear and the one with 2.73s you started the 40 roll in 1st correct? Also the passenger weight change will make a diff.

Yes, exactly!

Lol big diff

Actually it's the same size diff, just different gears.

 

[98 Saleen Cobra]

It's due to the final gear ratio.. with the 4.30's you are constantly shifting and when you shift into a higher gear the drive ratio goes down.. So while you're in the 3rd he's in 2nd you're in 4th he's in 3rd.. See what i mean? Then with 2.73's it's reversed..

This is the thing that a lot of people have is finding the happy medium. For me when I had 3.55's I would destroy Whippled cobras with the same gear.. As soon as I switched to 4.10's I would barely win against pullied cobras. Because I was in 3rd when they were still in 2nd and so on and so forth so there final ratio was way better than mine.. In all honest IMO 3.55/3.73's are the best gears for these cars unless you do a ton of 1/4mi stuff..

 

[CzchMex]

Ya, about 200 lbs. I can see it making a difference, but maybe not that much. Even if you think the only deciding factor is the weight difference, it's interesting that gears only seem to matter from a dig. Once you get going it doesn't really seem to matter.

Not always. Depends on the powerband of the car and where it is the strongest. My friend who had a 5.0 had a gear change and I had stock (87 vs 93). He also had a cam, exhaust, and 3.55. I had a stock car with 2.73. I walked over him from a dig in first gear...but that was it. From a roll his 3rd gear was a beast. Mine was a joke.

You should have the camera man in the Audi again and video taping it to see the difference. You will notice a better race.

Also didn't SN95s have 3.23 as the smallest gear ratio?

 

[STAMPEDE3]

Ya, about 200 lbs. I can see it making a difference, but maybe not that much. Even if you think the only deciding factor is the weight difference, it's interesting that gears only seem to matter from a dig. Once you get going it doesn't really seem to matter.

Every 100lbs comes out to about 1 tenth of a second in the 1/4 mile (Of course depending on HP but for a stockish/bolt on cobra it is about right)
at 100mph 1 tenth is about a car length. Bigger at higher speeds and roll racing.

So you swung 400lbs, Easily 4 car difference.

 

[DVJ38]

It's due to the final gear ratio.. with the 4.30's you are constantly shifting and when you shift into a higher gear the drive ratio goes down.. So while you're in the 3rd he's in 2nd you're in 4th he's in 3rd.. See what i mean? Then with 2.73's it's reversed..

This is the thing that a lot of people have is finding the happy medium. For me when I had 3.55's I would destroy Whippled cobras with the same gear.. As soon as I switched to 4.10's I would barely win against pullied cobras. Because I was in 3rd when they were still in 2nd and so on and so forth so there final ratio was way better than mine.. In all honest IMO 3.55/3.73's are the best gears for these cars unless you do a ton of 1/4mi stuff..

Well said! EXACTLY! This is kind of the point to this thread. I wanted to prove that gears don't mean shit on the street and that steep gears actually hurt you on a roll race of any kind. I used to always get beat when I was in fourth gear. Those 4.30's were great for lower speeds and launch, but towards the end of too many races I would get passed. I am going with 3.73's with the rear end I'm building this winter. :beer:

...didn't SN95s have 3.23 as the smallest gear ratio?

Well our cobras have 3.27's stock if that's what your asking.

Every 100lbs comes out to about 1 tenth of a second in the 1/4 mile (Of course depending on HP but for a stockish/bolt on cobra it is about right)
at 100mph 1 tenth is about a car length. Bigger at higher speeds and roll racing.

So you swung 400lbs, Easily 4 car difference.

Wow, guess I never thought of it like that lol. It's just hard to imagine what car the camera man is in makes that big of a difference. Usually we go out with a passanger in each car though.

To tell you the truth I thought I had him with my 2.73's this time and since last time the passanger was in my car I wanted him to go in his car lol. I guess I wanted the W. :burnout:

 

[1989Gt.]

whats done to that audi?

 

[Mystic-SVT]

I will tell you this, when I swapped in my 4.10s every gear has been better for me, even 3rd going 75 is much better then when I had 3.55s. For example, my buddy with an '01 bullitt would always stick with me until top of my 3rd, thats when I would start to pull on him. If we started the run at 70-75 he would actually jump ahead of me about half a car, after the 4.10s going 75 into 3rd I immediately start to pull and theres no catching up for him. From a slow roll (15mph) I'm ahead 3-4 cars by the time I'm mid 2nd gear.

 

[luke87gt]

How much the camera man weigh?

200lbs?

A 400lb weight swing can make that much difference.

Exactly right. Don't think about this as 200lbs. It is a 400lb swing overall. For cars that are relatively low power (like less than 300hp), a 400lbs swing is HUGE...

Easily 4 car lengths in the 1/4 mile!

 

[DVJ38]

whats done to that audi?

Catback only. All I really have done is an intake, o/r x, mufflers, and gears (if you want to take that into account lol)

I will tell you this, when I swapped in my 4.10s every gear has been better for me, even 3rd going 75 is much better then when I had 3.55s. For example, my buddy with an '01 bullitt would always stick with me until top of my 3rd, thats when I would start to pull on him. If we started the run at 70-75 he would actually jump ahead of me about half a car, after the 4.10s going 75 into 3rd I immediately start to pull and theres no catching up for him. From a slow roll (15mph) I'm ahead 3-4 cars by the time I'm mid 2nd gear.

Well third gear was fine when I had my 4.30's too. But when you're in fourth and the other guy is in third he has more final ratio than you and with the same power will walk away. At lower speeds gears are better because you have more multiplication in each gear, but once you start to be a whole gear higher at the same speed it just isn't going to let you win.

 

[mystical]

Well third gear was fine when I had my 4.30's too. But when you're in fourth and the other guy is in third he has more final ratio than you and with the same power will walk away. At lower speeds gears are better because you have more multiplication in each gear, but once you start to be a whole gear higher at the same speed it just isn't going to let you win.

First of all roll racing is gay. Second of all, if the race isn't over by fourth gear between two same cars when one is geared then something is wrong.

 

[DVJ38]

First of all roll racing is gay. Second of all, if the race isn't over by fourth gear between two same cars when one is geared then something is wrong.

Come show me a spot where I live that is a good dig spot. :kaboom:

Just so you know what this thread is about, it's about two DIFFERENT cars racing. Not two of the same kind of cars racing, one with gears and one without.

Are you saying you don't use fourth gear in a race? Something is wrong with you I think.

 

[STAMPEDE3]

Guys, this is fact, Any gear that gets you through to your redline quicker will be quicker.

If 4.30s top 4th out at 121mph
And say 3.55s hit 121 still in 3rd

Which one will get to 121 first?

If all else is equal like HP, traction, etc...
The one who gets throuh the powerband the quickest will win every time.

Why do you think Real Drag racers gear with the steepest gears that their RPM range will allow?

 

[mystical]

Guys, this is fact, Any gear that gets you through to your redline quicker will be quicker.

If 4.30s top 4th out at 121mph
And say 3.55s hit 121 still in 3rd

Which one will get to 121 first?

If all else is equal like HP, traction, etc...
The one who gets throuh the powerband the quickest will win every time.

Why do you think Real Drag racers gear with the steepest gears that their RPM range will allow?

Absolutely right!

 

[mystical]

Come show me a spot where I live that is a good dig spot. :kaboom:

Just so you know what this thread is about, it's about two DIFFERENT cars racing. Not two of the same kind of cars racing, one with gears and one without.

Are you saying you don't use fourth gear in a race? Something is wrong with you I think.

Its called a drag strip, that's where racing should take place. I'm wondering why you would swap 4.30's for 2.73?

 

[DVJ38]

Guys, this is fact, Any gear that gets you through to your redline quicker will be quicker.

If 4.30s top 4th out at 121mph
And say 3.55s hit 121 still in 3rd

Which one will get to 121 first?

but which one could get to 135 first? It's just that the gears help you down low, but once you're in fourth and they're still in third they get the advantage and will come around. Who knows maybe all those cars are just faster but my gears were covering up that fact at first.

If all else is equal like HP, traction, etc...
The one who gets throuh the powerband the quickest will win every time.

Why do you think Real Drag racers gear with the steepest gears that their RPM range will allow?

This part makes sense to me, but not the other parts lol

You've tried enough though lol, I think I am just being stubborn.

So if my friend is a 400 pound swing weight and it gave me 4 cars with just the weight factor alone.. why was I still able to gain two cars back, and still get two cars ahead of him? That would seem legit if the gears were the same, but now it seems like the gears didn't make any difference. I shouldn't have been able to get 4 cars back on him with my new lower and inferior gears, right?

I get in the quarter mile the gears help you get out of the hole and they multiply the revs quicker and it helps you go through gears quicker, but I don't know.. maybe those steep gears just aren't my style lol

Its called a drag strip, that's where racing should take place. I'm wondering why you would swap 4.30's for 2.73?

The closest drag strip is like 2 1/2 hours away and when you just want to see some car guys, shoot the shit, and maybe line up real quick you don't want to have to devote 1/2 a day, a lot of gas, then a registration fee to do so. When I lived in AZ there were two tracks 45 mins away and I went frequently though.

I had a 15 hour drive to mustang week and the 430's not only kept the rpms high and the car loud, but bearings were bad also, creating a loud whining noise which gave me a headache after only an hour drive on the highways, so I just swapped one in from a friends old fox.. ended up having 2.73s and it was quiet and kept the rpms low and I got 30 mpg lol. It's a killer though for getting anywhere when you're under 30 mph let me tell you. :lol:

 

[mystical]

It's due to the final gear ratio.. with the 4.30's you are constantly shifting and when you shift into a higher gear the drive ratio goes down.. So while you're in the 3rd he's in 2nd you're in 4th he's in 3rd.. See what i mean? Then with 2.73's it's reversed..

Well third gear was fine when I had my 4.30's too. But when you're in fourth and the other guy is in third he has more final ratio than you and with the same power will walk away. At lower speeds gears are better because you have more multiplication in each gear, but once you start to be a whole gear higher at the same speed it just isn't going to let you win.

This logic is flawed. For example, when you're in fourth (1:1) with 4.30's your final drive is 4.30. In third (1.33) with 2.73's your final drive is 3.63. Therefore, your final drive ratio is actually higher with the 4.30's in fourth vs. the 2.73's in third. Same goes for any of the other gears, just do the math and you'll see for yourself.

I just watched the vids and the only explanation I can think of is the weight shift as mentioned. Even still, I don't understand what happened. Even with the passenger in your car you should have walked the Audi for fun with 4.30's. These cars are dogs with 3.27's, I can't imagine driving with 2.73's but to each their own.