VMP TVS or 2.9 Whipple...?
- Thread starter Pure_Evil_GT500
- Start date
Everyone believes in what they sell and have to support that. I believe (just my opinion) there is misinformation starting to come out. I can be wrong and admit that. To say I took a 2.3 and made more HP than a 2.9 at same boost totally amuses me. That's the case why go bigger.
Time to walk the ban line. There is only one vendor I have ever dealt with that was totally honest and not pushing his product. Van @ REVAN RACING. I spoke to him about my goals and I have a Whipple.
If that was the case, why have a 5.8 if the 5.4 will make more HP. I have no problem betting the 5.8 makes more HP than the 5.4 and is easier. Rodfarva did the 2.9 maxing out and I know the Tvs can only dream of the power he was making. I have drug a Tvs car with all the bolt ons (didn't go into the motor) all over VA. TQ will e.t, HP will m.p.h. If you can use the few fps of TQ. The TVs makes you may get out a Tad bit. In the 1/4 you will get ran overtop of.
Sometimes less is more. Not a hard hit down low with the 2.9 but a bolo punch in the midrange when moving. Top it off with lower IATs and boost. Not knocking anyone, there's a Whipple Shelby that will try anyone in its league ( stock motor, you seen the thread) with a Tvs. Matter of fact pump gas /race fuel no matter. Stock motor without breaking open the valve covers with a TVs we can dance. Bolton whatever you need. I have my mods listed. You can even run higher boost and I still see the Whipple walking away. Looking forward to all donations that wanna try
Time to walk the ban line. There is only one vendor I have ever dealt with that was totally honest and not pushing his product. Van @ REVAN RACING. I spoke to him about my goals and I have a Whipple.
If that was the case, why have a 5.8 if the 5.4 will make more HP. I have no problem betting the 5.8 makes more HP than the 5.4 and is easier. Rodfarva did the 2.9 maxing out and I know the Tvs can only dream of the power he was making. I have drug a Tvs car with all the bolt ons (didn't go into the motor) all over VA. TQ will e.t, HP will m.p.h. If you can use the few fps of TQ. The TVs makes you may get out a Tad bit. In the 1/4 you will get ran overtop of.
Sometimes less is more. Not a hard hit down low with the 2.9 but a bolo punch in the midrange when moving. Top it off with lower IATs and boost. Not knocking anyone, there's a Whipple Shelby that will try anyone in its league ( stock motor, you seen the thread) with a Tvs. Matter of fact pump gas /race fuel no matter. Stock motor without breaking open the valve covers with a TVs we can dance. Bolton whatever you need. I have my mods listed. You can even run higher boost and I still see the Whipple walking away. Looking forward to all donations that wanna try
Where's your time slips? How come ford put a TVS 2.3 on their record setting 2013 Shelby then, why not a twin screw?
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Since your rant is clearly a reaction to my post (and not your first), you should go back and re-read it.
Obviously you think you're in that 10 pct of drivers that are beyond the norm. Congratulations.
And while I believe Van is a stand up guy, if he's the only honest one you've ever met, you should get off the Internet and socialize a little more.
Welcome to forum life and the land of plentiful opinions.
Bj
Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
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No offense, but that is a rediculous arguemnt. Do you really believe there nobody in the aftermarket makes anything better than what comes on the car from the factory?
The TVS will make more power on the low end because of the boost curves. Due to the rotor profile of twin screws, boost typically ramps up more on the big end. The twin scerews will make more power on the big end given the same psi, mainly because of the lower parasitic drag. With a 2.6" upper and 10% lower you are spinning the TVS a lot harder to make the same boost as a kenne bell or whipple with a 3" upper only. It takes power to to do this.
The questions are, or should be:
1) Is the 50 lb/ft at the bottom of the tack worth losing the 20-30whp up top.
and
2) Do you want your race gas tune to pick up ~40whp with the TVS, or over 100+whp with with a twin screw and a pulley swap? Same goes for e85 for the people fortunate enough to have it.
Justin's TVS car makes good power, but it is running cams and race gas. The twin screws will make more power than that just by switching to race gas and swapping pullies.
The cost of the TVS makes it more appealing to most. Not to mention it becomes hard to use all of this power on the street anyways.
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How do u figure its not valid, how many TVS's do u hear about pissing oil into the intake or having bypass valves blow up .....not many , can't say the same for the twin screws. RELIABILITY plays a huge part in items I install in my vehicles and what I recommend to my customers and friends.....u can keep the 15hp @ 21 psi , ill take oem reliability any day. Someone with a 2.9 needs to race Senkak if they are in Florida....his car on 21psi was just a tad over my old white vert power wise and yea running 10.30's @ 138mph , guess he's using that 50lb/ft pretty well....lol.
I can pull up Atleast 5 pages of rebuild threads on twinscrews....matter of fact , call whipple and tell them u.want to DD a 3.4 with 26#'s of boost and see what they say.....my.biggest point about the TVS vs world of twin screws is once u go over 21psi its a different ball game....you need race gas and your tempting fate on a stock motor. So by in large the.majority of the people on these forums would benefit from a TVS power band over a 2.9 at the same boost level....if I wanted to go race, I would strap a 4.0 whipple on my car with 28#'s of boost and e85.
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Yah... OEM reliabilty that is going to nuke the bearings in short order from over spining it. If you run a 2.4" upper and OD lower pulley and think the TVS is going tolast forever you are kidding yourself.
Hopw many TVS car do you see cracking 140+ traps and 9 second ETs?
I didn't say a TVS car can't ber fast, just that a twin screw car can be very well be faster. There are lots of guys who do track their cars though, and many that utuilize race gas. In those instances the twin screw is vastly superior. Take BJ's car for example. His car is set up well and moves out. It did with the stock blower as well. If he bolted on a twin screw and came out on kill, his car would be MUCH faster. Not everyone uses their car like that, but for the people that do, the bigger twin screw is the way to go.
For a mostly street car, the bigger blower is just bragging rights. On regular rubber neither one is going to hook up anyways. For the guy that is going to swap on some stickeies and hit up the local spots, he could very well fit into the first category. For the guy rolling around on R compounds all of the time, the TVS will be plenty of fun.
That is how I see it anyways.
My TVS dose not suck!!!!!!! JMHO
P,S. Im not JOHN FORCE and dont ever claim to be!!!!!!!!!
P,S. Im not JOHN FORCE and dont ever claim to be!!!!!!!!!
My last post on this topic (rant called by some) . First and foremost I have no dog in this fight. I'm not a supplier or either blower. I don't care which one anyone buys because I don't get a penny of it. I don't make my living pushing blower X so I'm neutral.
A car running 10.30 s is not enough but we can set something up and I will put daylight between us in the 1/4 and park greyhound buses between us if we stay in it. No I don't claim to be the best driver but I'm confident in my abilities and back down from noone. There is always someone faster and quicker. All I have is 26 yrs of banging gears and about 17 years of that really racing. I have went faster in other people's cars then they have. Had 2 take my car faster then I have (still sick about that one) .
I look at things from a mechanical point of view and do research on my own. My experience comes from 27 years of building, modifying, experimenting, and blowing stuff up. I like to make sense out of things and understand what is going on. Some people do not have the patience to read and understand. That is why you have this thread and so many repeats of oil, tires, spark plugs, HE, oil seperators and so on. The research was done, post were made with results, and still 5-10 pages later the same thread.
Get out a lot, wish I could stay home and just enjoy life more. I race, motorcycles, cars, trucks, and at one time was playing around with boats and sea doos. Nothing like 60 foot on the water from a dead. On the quest to go faster and spending money you meet a lot of people.
Over my short time span here on earth I have categorized salesmen into three types. Type 1- my part is the best. It will out perform all the others and they are inferior to mine. Whatever it takes to get you to buy there merchandise. No matter what the competition is doing, they can do better.
Type 2 - I will sell you anything to make a dollar. You want it, I can get it. You think you need it and I will sell it. You heard of it and I will locate it for sell. Just pushing stuff on you to get money. He doesn't care who makes it, how it works, even if it helps you. He just wants money.
Type 3. This is the one you end up befriending and enjoy. He shares a pure love for the hobby. Willing to share his knowledge for free. Tells you what does and doesn't work. Doesn't care if you purchase his product or the competition to meet your goal. Doesn't try to convince you of brand X. Just what each one does and doesn't. Pros and cons. You make up your mind and they support you along the way. See where I'm going with this. Someone is not in this post for a reason, figure it out
Now this blower thing. The statement going from a 2.3 to 2.9 is not enough. Let's take the. 6 and work with it. Not sure but isn't the factory blower 1.9? Not sure don't feel like researching it. For arguments sake it is. It's so worth it to go from 1.9 to 2.3. That is .4. That is the thing to really do. . Now to increase by .6 makes no sense. Now I'm confused. Take it further, from 1.9 to 2.9 is a whole 1. It is cheaper to increase by 1 then to increase by .4. Wow totally bad example right, yeah I know.
We talk about TQ curves and how this thing hits so hard and all being equal. Well now we have to disect this. Both being bolted on and tuned might get more TQ from the smaller one but its never the same.
Anyone ever look at blower speed. Yeah that's what noone wants to talk about. Exaggerated numbers because I'm not going to break out the calculator and waste time because some still wont get it. If both blowers are turned at the same speed the Tvs is like comparing a D battery hand fan to a 20 in box window fan. You cutting down a snout with a smaller pulley then the blower was designed for spinning the hell out of it. You comparing a blower turning 18K per minute to one being spun 21K per minute. But for some reason the one spinning 21K is superior to the one spinning 18K. Go figure. Arrange the pulley set up where both rotate the same speed (not boost because that is a measure of restrictions) and there is no comparison to be made. This is a test that you will never see and the engine can't handle the Whipple. So many times when people speak of boost they don't tell you what it takes to make that. Take a 3.25 pulley on a Tvs and see what you get.
Never heard of a blower sucking oil out of an engine. Pull air from the atmosphere and compress it in the casing (intake depending on which blower) then puts it in the engine. All units are internally lubricated. If there is oil in the tract (even the stock ones get it) the ENGINE has a blowby going on. Rings, valve seals or some other culprit is the problem. More boost will make the problem worst but its not the blower. No blower is designed to compress oil so its the ENGINE causing the oil in the tract. That argument is null and void.
Bypass valve explosion, haven't had that problem and not really read much about it. You referring to the little round thing on the back of the blower that has a vacuum tube going to it. Doesn't the TVs have the same thing. Whipple uses the same one the factory uses. Okay I see were not going to get anywhere with that one. Did someone smash the bypass valve against the firewall or not have the clearance needed when the motor moved under TQ. Lets get the whole story.
Measuring IATs after the intercooler proves nothing. It shows the efficiency of the cooler. You can have 200 in and 120 out. You can have 220 in and 120 out. Means the cooler is efficient in that range. You can have 240 in and 125 out. Until you exceed the intercooler efficiency you will not get the one for one number that people imagine. The whole reason for IAT 1 and IAT 2. Comparison
I offer a comparison in the real world and stop this synopsis racing. Punishing a 10.30 car is only going to show I have a faster car. Now if he has the same mods that I do then your going to see Whipple at work. I want the best Bolton one without engine work. I careless about suspension because I have quite a few tricks in mine. Ill even leave the track after the synopsis and we can synopsis both cars to see all the differences. Just for those on the board to see the difference in blowers. Last but not least ill even data log the run for full comparison. What more can you ask for. Lets stretch some rods, I'm ready
A car running 10.30 s is not enough but we can set something up and I will put daylight between us in the 1/4 and park greyhound buses between us if we stay in it. No I don't claim to be the best driver but I'm confident in my abilities and back down from noone. There is always someone faster and quicker. All I have is 26 yrs of banging gears and about 17 years of that really racing. I have went faster in other people's cars then they have. Had 2 take my car faster then I have (still sick about that one) .
I look at things from a mechanical point of view and do research on my own. My experience comes from 27 years of building, modifying, experimenting, and blowing stuff up. I like to make sense out of things and understand what is going on. Some people do not have the patience to read and understand. That is why you have this thread and so many repeats of oil, tires, spark plugs, HE, oil seperators and so on. The research was done, post were made with results, and still 5-10 pages later the same thread.
Get out a lot, wish I could stay home and just enjoy life more. I race, motorcycles, cars, trucks, and at one time was playing around with boats and sea doos. Nothing like 60 foot on the water from a dead. On the quest to go faster and spending money you meet a lot of people.
Over my short time span here on earth I have categorized salesmen into three types. Type 1- my part is the best. It will out perform all the others and they are inferior to mine. Whatever it takes to get you to buy there merchandise. No matter what the competition is doing, they can do better.
Type 2 - I will sell you anything to make a dollar. You want it, I can get it. You think you need it and I will sell it. You heard of it and I will locate it for sell. Just pushing stuff on you to get money. He doesn't care who makes it, how it works, even if it helps you. He just wants money.
Type 3. This is the one you end up befriending and enjoy. He shares a pure love for the hobby. Willing to share his knowledge for free. Tells you what does and doesn't work. Doesn't care if you purchase his product or the competition to meet your goal. Doesn't try to convince you of brand X. Just what each one does and doesn't. Pros and cons. You make up your mind and they support you along the way. See where I'm going with this. Someone is not in this post for a reason, figure it out
Now this blower thing. The statement going from a 2.3 to 2.9 is not enough. Let's take the. 6 and work with it. Not sure but isn't the factory blower 1.9? Not sure don't feel like researching it. For arguments sake it is. It's so worth it to go from 1.9 to 2.3. That is .4. That is the thing to really do. . Now to increase by .6 makes no sense. Now I'm confused. Take it further, from 1.9 to 2.9 is a whole 1. It is cheaper to increase by 1 then to increase by .4. Wow totally bad example right, yeah I know.
We talk about TQ curves and how this thing hits so hard and all being equal. Well now we have to disect this. Both being bolted on and tuned might get more TQ from the smaller one but its never the same.
Anyone ever look at blower speed. Yeah that's what noone wants to talk about. Exaggerated numbers because I'm not going to break out the calculator and waste time because some still wont get it. If both blowers are turned at the same speed the Tvs is like comparing a D battery hand fan to a 20 in box window fan. You cutting down a snout with a smaller pulley then the blower was designed for spinning the hell out of it. You comparing a blower turning 18K per minute to one being spun 21K per minute. But for some reason the one spinning 21K is superior to the one spinning 18K. Go figure. Arrange the pulley set up where both rotate the same speed (not boost because that is a measure of restrictions) and there is no comparison to be made. This is a test that you will never see and the engine can't handle the Whipple. So many times when people speak of boost they don't tell you what it takes to make that. Take a 3.25 pulley on a Tvs and see what you get.
Never heard of a blower sucking oil out of an engine. Pull air from the atmosphere and compress it in the casing (intake depending on which blower) then puts it in the engine. All units are internally lubricated. If there is oil in the tract (even the stock ones get it) the ENGINE has a blowby going on. Rings, valve seals or some other culprit is the problem. More boost will make the problem worst but its not the blower. No blower is designed to compress oil so its the ENGINE causing the oil in the tract. That argument is null and void.
Bypass valve explosion, haven't had that problem and not really read much about it. You referring to the little round thing on the back of the blower that has a vacuum tube going to it. Doesn't the TVs have the same thing. Whipple uses the same one the factory uses. Okay I see were not going to get anywhere with that one. Did someone smash the bypass valve against the firewall or not have the clearance needed when the motor moved under TQ. Lets get the whole story.
Measuring IATs after the intercooler proves nothing. It shows the efficiency of the cooler. You can have 200 in and 120 out. You can have 220 in and 120 out. Means the cooler is efficient in that range. You can have 240 in and 125 out. Until you exceed the intercooler efficiency you will not get the one for one number that people imagine. The whole reason for IAT 1 and IAT 2. Comparison
I offer a comparison in the real world and stop this synopsis racing. Punishing a 10.30 car is only going to show I have a faster car. Now if he has the same mods that I do then your going to see Whipple at work. I want the best Bolton one without engine work. I careless about suspension because I have quite a few tricks in mine. Ill even leave the track after the synopsis and we can synopsis both cars to see all the differences. Just for those on the board to see the difference in blowers. Last but not least ill even data log the run for full comparison. What more can you ask for. Lets stretch some rods, I'm ready
Take out synopsis and use comparison. Samsung messing up
Very interesting Dirty O... I have a couple of questions:
You said your Mods are in your sig.?? How about a synopsis of your ride.
How about a Whipple vs. KB comparison 2.9 vs. 2.8 KB.. I think I remember reading the KB guys actually spinning the TVS and KB Blowers with the same pulley, and data-logging it. A few years ago the KB and Whipple guys had a spirited debate on several forums...
I'm jealous of all you guys on the E. Coast 93-94 Octane readily available. Best we can get in Cali. is 91... Thanx..
You said your Mods are in your sig.?? How about a synopsis of your ride.
How about a Whipple vs. KB comparison 2.9 vs. 2.8 KB.. I think I remember reading the KB guys actually spinning the TVS and KB Blowers with the same pulley, and data-logging it. A few years ago the KB and Whipple guys had a spirited debate on several forums...
I'm jealous of all you guys on the E. Coast 93-94 Octane readily available. Best we can get in Cali. is 91... Thanx..
Did a build thread on it. Only change was some suspension work outside of the thread. The guy that scales all of my cars I race added a few pieces here and there. Dropped the car off and he told me it was poorly designed and he needed 1800 two weeks later because stuff was at the powdercoat shop.
Picked it up and the car went .4 tenths faster picking up 4-7 mph depending on weather conditions. He is working on getting some type of set up going since he has done 5 different cars and all are showing big improvements. Hopefully he gets it out there before someone tries to steal his work.
Has for HP mods. 2.9 whipple, 72 L&M, 72lb injectors, dynatech headers with O/R X, dynotech DS, MGW shifter, FRPP suspension, UCA, LCAs, Revan HE/RAD, Lund Tuned (tweaked a little by another tuner now), 3:73 gears and a few other mods that I can't think of off the top of my oh, front and rear STBs. Car made 734 with the 3.25 pulley at 16.5 lbs of boost. Factory lower pulley on the car. Pump gas (don't think smaller blowers will do that except for Kenne Bell)
Street race with the 3.25 on pump gas and the 3.0 on race fuel at the track. Scared to run pump on the 3.0 (just trying to avoid the inevitable). Plus the car likes to get a little loose with the 3.0 in the street with the 2nd gear shift. Track is a whole different story. Just loves to wing 6600 all day staying planted.
Picked it up and the car went .4 tenths faster picking up 4-7 mph depending on weather conditions. He is working on getting some type of set up going since he has done 5 different cars and all are showing big improvements. Hopefully he gets it out there before someone tries to steal his work.
Has for HP mods. 2.9 whipple, 72 L&M, 72lb injectors, dynatech headers with O/R X, dynotech DS, MGW shifter, FRPP suspension, UCA, LCAs, Revan HE/RAD, Lund Tuned (tweaked a little by another tuner now), 3:73 gears and a few other mods that I can't think of off the top of my oh, front and rear STBs. Car made 734 with the 3.25 pulley at 16.5 lbs of boost. Factory lower pulley on the car. Pump gas (don't think smaller blowers will do that except for Kenne Bell)
Street race with the 3.25 on pump gas and the 3.0 on race fuel at the track. Scared to run pump on the 3.0 (just trying to avoid the inevitable). Plus the car likes to get a little loose with the 3.0 in the street with the 2nd gear shift. Track is a whole different story. Just loves to wing 6600 all day staying planted.
Dirty that is one Bad A** ride!! 734 Rwhp with a 3.25 pulley on 16.5 lbs, WOW!!! Sounds like that would run all day on 93 Octane with a JL Tune... Well done....
A ported eaton can beat a tvs/whipple in the hands of the right driver at the strip. Suspension, tires, driver ability and who gets out of the hole first are the winner there, it's not who makes the most power. On the street a bigger blower is going to run over top of the smaller blower the longer your in it, I'm not sure what the debate really is on that.
These are my thoughts also. My street racing days have sadly ended, so i went for the TVS. By chance the itch comes for the street scene the ttix vette is ready in the garage for the duty :banana:
great read guys
3 years old tho!
Lmao
Well, there you go again.
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