01 cobra vs 2000 camaro SS? who do you think would win

tt335ci03cobra

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Nah brah. B18c5, it was designed with formula one technology. I'm putting one in my Chevelle when it's done......lol

Lolz haha

Haha ya but the k24 is bigger and newer with spiffier Johnson bezels so it must be better! (Ie vtec badges)

All joking aside though, there's 400whp na civics running 9's and 8's in competition guise, that's epic for such low power. 1640# race weight if I remember right. Nutty
 
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OW99

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Lolz haha

Haha ya but the k24 is bigger and newer with spiffier Johnson bezels so it must be better! (Ie vtec badges)

All joking aside though, there's 400whp na civics running 9's and 8's in competition guise, that's epic for such low power. 1640# race weight if I remember right. Nutty

Yes it's crazy how fast they can be.
 

mrlrd1

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Haha, stop and think man. You're the one who cited an article in the first place. You mentioned the 1000hp 5.3's and budget turbo 5.3's whooping on sc terminators, remember that? That 5.3 was 963hp in a magazine with an unlimited budget fully built up, cam, heads, intake, FAST, fully forged 383 stroker so 6.4L...twin 76's that definitely weren't cheap Chinese crap like you were talking about, etc. Your argument fell apart when i presenter the facts bro.

I NEVER cited any article. NEVER. No link, no reference, nothing.
 

Davemcc

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Back to the OP, I bought an '01 Cobra new. Bone stock, the best I got out of it was 13.67. I think I could have done better with more practice, more runs, better weather, etc. I traded that for an '02 Camaro SS A4. My best bone stock run in that car was 13.21 although it also ran plenty of 13.30-13.50's to get to that number.

I think with the gears, it's a driver's race.
 

tt335ci03cobra

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I NEVER cited any article. NEVER. No link, no reference, nothing.


Right. You don't quote the article by name but you're clearly sourcing the build.


You keep talking about this boost thing. It shows your ignorance.

Turbo junkyard 4.8s and 5.3s are popping up everywhere. And surprise... many in fox Mustangs. Stock 100K+ mile junkyard engines with 15psi on a 70-78mm turbo are putting down power numbers that would embarass a well built twin screw 4v. And there's nothing hard about it. Flipped truck manifolds, $300 chinese turbos, ebay intercoolers...

And pound (engine weight) for pound (boost psi), the LS makes MORE power. When was the last time you saw a mod motor making over 1000hp with as little as 12psi with any blower/turbo?

Face it. The 4v mod motors are good platforms to work with ONLY IF YOU ALREADY HAVE ONE. If you've got a car with one, use it. But it certainly isn't, and never will be, something you should swap into another platform. The only guys that do that are hardcore Ford fans that don't mind a lot of extra work, and would rather be unique than fast.


If your thinking of any other 5.3 making 1000hp with 12psi other than the one in the article you clearly read and are referring to, enlighten me and I'll gladly say you were not referring to the one I posted about. I'll wait.

By the way, 15psi on a 100k mile 4.8-5.3 is a time bomb, most guys are scared to run 8-10psi on their 4.8-5.3 junkyard builds. Just saying.

Oh, and embarrass a "well built twin screw terminator?" Get the hell out of here, the only thing 600-700whp will "embarrass terminator wise is an eaton car or a low boost basic setup twin screw car. Twin screw terminators, "well built" are making 800-1000whp. Read up on 3.6 and 4.1's. Hell, even 2.8's are good for 800whp+ in "well built" applications.

Re-reading your initial post on 4.8-5.3's hurt my brain even more than the first time I read especially now that I know even more about them. Just stop please, I'll be your buddy and pat you on the back for trying because I think the idea is novel/respectable but honestly quit with this stuff about them embarrassing "well built" twin screw cobras, I hope you've learned a good bit becaus you were way off.

Swap wise, Koenigsegg didn't have to much trouble with modulars, neither did Panoz. I've heard less than stellar things about the longevity of ohv Chevy sourced ultima's and so on though, namely Hennessy builds.
 

tt335ci03cobra

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Back to the OP, I bought an '01 Cobra new. Bone stock, the best I got out of it was 13.67. I think I could have done better with more practice, more runs, better weather, etc. I traded that for an '02 Camaro SS A4. My best bone stock run in that car was 13.21 although it also ran plenty of 13.30-13.50's to get to that number.

I think with the gears, it's a driver's race.

If it was a geared only 01 then ya it's a dead drivers race but he's also got cai, catback, will have an o/r x, and tuner before the race. He's also on 315's and even though they are khumo's, 315 is still better than factor 245 Pirelli's IMHO.

It's his race to lose if the a4 is really bone stock.
 

mrlrd1

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Right. You don't quote the article by name but you're clearly sourcing the build.

But you do cite LSmyth, and that's what's important. :poke:

No.

I wasn't even aware of that article you posted. The only magazine build I knew of was the Hot Rod big bang theory 4.8.

Finally, when I referenced junkyard 5.3s making 1000hp, I wasn't talking about some magazine. I was talking about the several builds making 800rwhp+, one of which has been running 8s for YEARS.
 

Kiohtee

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Specifically, everyone has jumped around so much in here I'm really surprised anyone can keep up with anything anymore. I think it's time we let this thread die. :shrug:

If you wanna argue these two cars' potential, take it to the track/street.
 

tt335ci03cobra

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No.

I wasn't even aware of that article you posted. The only magazine build I knew of was the Hot Rod big bang theory 4.8.

Finally, when I referenced junkyard 5.3s making 1000hp, I wasn't talking about some magazine. I was talking about the several builds making 800rwhp+, one of which has been running 8s for YEARS.

Are you saying 1000hp stock internals or built forged. I'm under the impression you've been talking stock $300-700 longblocks with basic turbo kits at 15psi, if your talking about built 4.8 with forged bits then that's obviously different.

When you say years, what kind of mileage? Ie I can say my 5.4 is still running strong 6 years later but I've only put 3-5,000 miles on it in 6 years so its not very noteworthy. We talking daily driver or weekend/track cars lasting years?

We are all aware of that Ben. Specifically the numbers were 13.1 and 13.2 in this discussion.

I mixed 13.1's of machs up as cobra times. i clarified that way back. I posted proof of 13.2's, I let the drama swell up so the proof would have max effect. It did as I hoped, everybody suddenly went mute about it haha.

Thread should die, op can win if he can launch well and cleanly powershift
 
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tt335ci03cobra

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Also, mrlrd, if you were honestly not referring to anything from the article I posted up then cheers. coincidence maybe. In the article you're referring to, It made 1200hp @26psi (maybe~1050whp?) in that article but did have an off the shelf cam, ported heads, full fast system, gapped rings, flat top pistons, arp head studs, new gaskets etc, throttle body, etc. It did have a stock rotating assembly, unless flat top pistons weren't factory on the 4.8.

Cam and heads alone is $600-1000 depending on the route taken and higher if labor is involved. Fast is $$$$ and the throttle body is another $2-300 if my memory is correct.

My point was simply that a stock long block/cam/head 4.8-5.3 won't do that. Cam/head porting/fast/accufab, nice twin 76's at 26psi (not china junk) etc all did most of the work. Plus an engine dyno isn't as hard on a motor as a chassis dyno is where components and drivetrain are spun. As impressive as the 4.8 is based on the article

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/hrdp_1109_stock_gm_ls_engine_big_bang_theory/

I still think its nowhere near as robust a long block as the 4.6-5.4 forged modulars. Why do i bring this obvious sentiment up? You asked what good is a heavier smaller displacement motor? IMO better for boost. Twin 67's on 03's have made 1188whp which is well over 1400hp... Only mods were fuel and tuning. Stock heads, cams, rotating assembly, valves, exhaust manifolds, even the restrictive heaton supercharger. There was an off the shelf Anderson motorsports pms, (like an fast but less expensive), e85 fuel, and possibly arp studs/better gaskets but I think they even used stock studs.

The car spun on the dyno but made 1188whp at 27psi through a heaton supercharger around 5500rpms then spun because of the stock IRS and smallish nt555r tires. Just putting a stock 01 cobra intake manifold ($200~) on this car would have gained 100whp+ at that boost level but lost tons of low end torque. It was seeing 44psi of manifold pressure which is insane, te fact it didn't pop in that application is epic. Simple twins could have been ran to probably 35psi read at the manifold with 1400whp without the motor wincing...

http://www.musclemustangfastfords.c...ompound_boost_2003_mustang_cobra/viewall.html


Anyways, the 4.8's are a great budget friendly build with tons of potential, the factory forged 4.6 cobra mills are recognized as legends much like Toyota 2jzgte's and cummins turbo diesels. Each has its place so it not valid to ask what good the 4.6 is IMO.
 

mrlrd1

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Are you saying 1000hp stock internals or built forged. I'm under the impression you've been talking stock $300-700 longblocks with basic turbo kits at 15psi, if your talking about built 4.8 with forged bits then that's obviously different.

When you say years, what kind of mileage? Ie I can say my 5.4 is still running strong 6 years later but I've only put 3-5,000 miles on it in 6 years so its not very noteworthy. We talking daily driver or weekend/track cars lasting years?

Stock shortblock. Some open the ring gap a little. Many do at least an LS6 cam. Fools put on 317 heads. However many guys are pulling 100K+ mile 5.3s from their local junkyard, throwing a bunch of Ebay sourced turbo parts on it, and are pushing 550-600rwhp on a STOCK LONGBLOCK 5.3 with pump gas and beat the shit out of them for years. Some of the higher end 5.3s like the L33 and LS6 cammed LM7s are making ridiculous RELIABLE power for pennies compared to a forged modular.

Screw up the tune or have fuel system problems and break a ringland... no big deal. Stop by ANY junkyard in the country and pick up another longblock for under $500.

I'm not making any wild claims or breaking any news here.
 

badws6ta

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If it was a geared only 01 then ya it's a dead drivers race but he's also got cai, catback, will have an o/r x, and tuner before the race. He's also on 315's and even though they are khumo's, 315 is still better than factor 245 Pirelli's IMHO.

It's his race to lose if the a4 is really bone stock.

A stock auto LS1 car is much easier to launch than a manual car. It's too easy. It's gonna come down to who gets off the line quicker I think. Even on 315's it's possible to screw up launching the Cobra and blow the tires off unless the OP knows how to drive. I agree that it's a driver's race with the mods to the cobra. Now if the Camaro has bolt ons and has 323's it's a different story.

Lots of misinformation in this thread... LS motors hold up fine to boost with the proper safe tune. If not tuned right or lacking proper fuel system it will blow up. The same goes for any motor forged or not. The LS boosted is pretty impressive being an aluminum block non forged engine. Throw an LQ4 or LQ9 in and it's a completely different story. Heres a 100K mile one with only valve springs:Single Turbocharged Stock 03 LQ9 Runs 9.92 @ 141.46 - LS1GTO.com Forums and there are plenty more. They don't just explode left and right like some people have been saying. By no means am I a die hard GM nutswinger either; I've owned both fords and chevys over the years. The LS motors are just easier to work on and cheaper, period. There is a reason it is one of the most swapped engines in the world, not just because people are lazy; because it's cheap and effective. That being said both the LS and the modular motors are good platforms, and I can appreciate them both. I've wanted an 03-04 cobra for years, just havent been in a position to get one yet.
 
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tt335ci03cobra

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I've heard of e85 and/or meth injected stock ls mills holding up just fine, one guy was running a comp single 70? rear mounted oil-less setup on a cammed, stock headed, stock internals, c5 ls1 that made 840whp through a blow through maf on stock gaskets/studs, it blew a little white smoke out of the back corner so they threw in arp/better gaskets and kept using stock internals. Not sure how high they went, but also factor it was on his "stingy" dyno (haha, I personally like conservative dyno's, sleeper status!!). He owns unleashed performance in Texas I believe. The threads are on ls1tech. Cool project/awesome shop from what I saw.

I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm saying its less safe than a modular. He had a hundred or so dyno pulls, and tons of street miles on his but the key point was tons and tons of tuning, running racegas and being very conservative tune wise while 1st dialing it in, and running e85/methanol (awesome combo by the way). Safety almost always buys dependable reliability.

It's sad to say but in the same thread where he was keeping log of how much power his stock longblock (just cammed) ls1 could hold, another ls1tech member had his fbody pump gas single comp stock internal ls1 blow a rear ring at 650?whp even with a stupid safe 10.8 a/f and 13* of timing if my memory is correct. Obviously the heat and low octane of traditional pump gas was the issue in accordance with a single cam trying to orchestrate so much with hypereutonic internals. No shame in that, boost wasn't in the design architecture of the ohv platform back when the ls1 ruled the streets. Now the ls9/lsa's have boost friendlier architecture and I think the new lt variants most definitely will as time progresses and the industry moves that direction. Lt's now have variable valve timing and direct injection, big news for fi guys.

Anyways, point being, very safely done, yes most any motor will handle boost for a while, stock hypereutonic or forged, but all along all I've said is a modular will handle boost, even na hypereutonic modulars, much easier than ohv's because the heads are more conducive for boosted applications. It's physics, less stress on singular components, more moving parts, but when's the last time you heard of a 4v just randomly dropping valves or operating like a salary guy at a factory seeing 5:01 on the clock and just leaving? The heads are more complex but very dependable.

It's just really hard for one cam and 16 valves to safely orchestrate a symphony of low rpm usable power, out of boost smoothness, mid rpm quick spooling (without dropping a valve during the sudden ramp up) and high rpm boosted load, especially on pump gas without meth. A lot can go wrong. Will it everytime? No. An ls can be built to run strong with a turbo setup but its not nearly as simple/safe as it is with modulars. For traditional pump gas builds, a proper speced turbo to cam/head/spring/rocker/intake combo running forged internals is a great way to buy safety/longevity. If I was building an ohv for boost though, I'd run it like unleashed performance with e85 and methanol, even with everything else I just mentioned. I've seen a lot of ls carnage, even forged strokers, when pump gas is used.

Running e85 and or methanol makes it much easier. Even on my car, I plan to run methanol just as a safety net this summer, since I just went return petrol fuel system instead of e85 (can't find e85 up here very easy, like 5 places have it... Sucks). I've got larger comps on the way, and even with trick cool running bb's, I'm going meth for cooler iat's/et al the benefits.

I've seen a well installed, rear mount ls2 go boom with 5-6psi here in my hometown. 2 years after the install, but still not a dd or lots of mileage. It had a "safe" tune, maybe it's just the altitude up here, maybe he got shitty gas, or xyz difference but when my buddy's ask me about turboing their ls's, I tell em to read up a lot on ls1tech, turbo forums, talk with builders, and do it very safe/right the first time with meth and/or e85 (track cars, street cars we almost all run petrol) It's not because I don't wanna see them go fast on less cash than I spent, its that I don't wanna be that guy saying "oh just put $1000 of used and junkyard parts at it and it'll run for a long time" only to see it tick tick boom... Safer beats sorry IMO.
 
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badws6ta

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I've heard of e85 and/or meth injected stock ls mills holding up just fine, one guy was running a comp single 70? rear mounted oil-less setup on a cammed, stock headed, stock internals, c5 ls1 that made 840whp through a blow through maf on stock gaskets/studs, it blew a little white smoke out of the back corner so they threw in arp/better gaskets and kept using stock internals. Not sure how high they went, but also factor it was on his "stingy" dyno (haha, I personally like conservative dyno's, sleeper status!!). He owns unleashed performance in Texas I believe. The threads are on ls1tech. Cool project/awesome shop from what I saw.

I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm saying its less safe than a modular. He had a hundred or so dyno pulls, and tons of street miles on his but the key point was tons and tons of tuning, running racegas and being very conservative tune wise while 1st dialing it in, and running e85/methanol (awesome combo by the way). Safety almost always buys dependable reliability.

It's sad to say but in the same thread where he was keeping log of how much power his stock longblock (just cammed) ls1 could hold, another ls1tech member had his fbody pump gas single comp stock internal ls1 blow a rear ring at 650?whp even with a stupid safe 10.8 a/f and 13* of timing if my memory is correct. Obviously the heat and low octane of traditional pump gas was the issue in accordance with a single cam trying to orchestrate so much with hypereutonic internals. No shame in that, boost wasn't in the design architecture of the ohv platform back when the ls1 ruled the streets. Now the ls9/lsa's have boost friendlier architecture and I think the new lt variants most definitely will as time progresses and the industry moves that direction. Lt's now have variable valve timing and direct injection, big news for fi guys.

Anyways, point being, very safely done, yes most any motor will handle boost for a while, stock hypereutonic or forged, but all along all I've said is a modular will handle boost, even na hypereutonic modulars, much easier than ohv's because the heads are more conducive for boosted applications. It's physics, less stress on singular components, more moving parts, but when's the last time you heard of a 4v just randomly dropping valves or operating like a salary guy at a factory seeing 5:01 on the clock and just leaving? The heads are more complex but very dependable.

It's just really hard for one cam and 16 valves to safely orchestrate a symphony of low rpm usable power, out of boost smoothness, mid rpm quick spooling (without dropping a valve during the sudden ramp up) and high rpm boosted load, especially on pump gas without meth. A lot can go wrong. Will it everytime? No. An ls can be built to run strong with a turbo setup but its not nearly as simple/safe as it is with modulars. For traditional pump gas builds, a proper speced turbo to cam/head/spring/rocker/intake combo running forged internals is a great way to buy safety/longevity. If I was building an ohv for boost though, I'd run it like unleashed performance with e85 and methanol, even with everything else I just mentioned. I've seen a lot of ls carnage, even forged strokers, when pump gas is used.

Running e85 and or methanol makes it much easier. Even on my car, I plan to run methanol just as a safety net this summer, since I just went return petrol fuel system instead of e85 (can't find e85 up here very easy, like 5 places have it... Sucks). I've got larger comps on the way, and even with trick cool running bb's, I'm going meth for cooler iat's/et al the benefits.

I've seen a well installed, rear mount ls2 go boom with 5-6psi here in my hometown. 2 years after the install, but still not a dd or lots of mileage. It had a "safe" tune, maybe it's just the altitude up here, maybe he got shitty gas, or xyz difference but when my buddy's ask me about turboing their ls's, I tell em to read up a lot on ls1tech, turbo forums, talk with builders, and do it very safe/right the first time with meth and/or e85 (track cars, street cars we almost all run petrol) It's not because I don't wanna see them go fast on less cash than I spent, its that I don't wanna be that guy saying "oh just put $1000 of used and junkyard parts at it and it'll run for a long time" only to see it tick tick boom... Safer beats sorry IMO.

Hopefully very soon I'll have some personal experience with it, as I have decided to either go Turbo with my Z06 or sell it, get an LS3 C6 and Either S/C or turbo it.
 

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