Retrofitting a '13 GT500 carbon fiber driveshaft to an '07-'12 GT500

[Tob]

I finally got the opportunity to weigh the '07-'12 bare flange/adapter combination. The two of them fitted together (but without all the bolts to tie them together) came in at 7 lbs 5.4 ounces. This means that the adapter combination comes in at 3 lbs 5.1 ounces more than a stock 2013 flange (which weighs 4 lbs 0.3 ounces). For '07-'09 owners, this still means a net reduction in weight at the flange of 2 lbs 4.6 ounces ('07-'09 comes in at 9 lbs 10 ounces).

Dimensionally, these are the bolts that will be going through the rear face of the original flange...

Class 12.9 screws are high strength and coated with a layer of zinc for rust resistance. Size M3 screws are zinc plated; all other sizes have a coating of zinc flake, which provides 600 hours of salt spray resistance. All screws are fully threaded and have a Class 5g6g thread fit. They have a minimum Rockwell hardness of C37 and tensile strength of 174,000 psi. Dimensions meet DIN 912/ISO 4762. Screw length is measured from under the head.

And this is the size/length of the bolts that will retain the CV joint/shaft...

The flange distributes holding pressure, so screws are less likely to come loose. All screws are made from alloy steel and have a black finish. They're fully threaded (unless noted) and have a Class 5g6g thread fit.
Minimum Rockwell hardness is C39; minimum tensile strength is 176,900 psi. Head height is measured from the bottom of the flange to the top of the head. Screw length is measured from under the flange.

And because I finally got a few moments this morning I took the two apart and cleaned up the threads...

Down in the basement finishing up two water heater tanks and an expansion tank (pressure relief valve kept burping), I took a quick video of the assembly with my phone. I wanted to show how precise the pilot fit is...CLICK HERE...

 

[Cuda426]

Very nice. I have high hopes he makes a batch of these, so I can get one.

Does anyone know if the 2013 trans output shaft will fit the earlier Transmissions? I'm guessing not because of different gear ratios, just wondered if anyone has looked into that.

 

[Catmonkey]

Tob, I'm curious if you intend to drill out the threads in the splined hub. I can't see that you can get sufficient clamping force from the bolts with both pieces being threaded.

 

[Cuda426]

Tob, I'm curious if you intend to drill out the threads in the splined hub. I can't see that you can get sufficient clamping force from the bolts with both pieces being threaded.

I wondered the same thing till I saw the video, looks like the thread diameter in the hub are larger than than the thread diameter in the adapter, so no interference with clamping the two parts together.

 

[Tob]

Excellent question. One that I discussed with Tom. The '07-'12 bolts at the transmission flange were part #HB2 and there were four of them (and there were six #HB2's at the pinion flange). The '13 uses #4B496 and there are six of them at the transmission flange and six of them at the pinion flange. Whats the difference? The '07-'12 uses less bolts (four versus six) at the transmission but they were larger than what the '13 uses.

HB2's measure M12 X 1.75 X 27.0
4B496's measure M10 x 1.5

2007-2012 shaft/bolts...

2013 shaft/bolts...

In essence, the bolts that will go through the rear face of the '07-'12 flange are smaller than what Ford used to secure the OEM 2 piece shaft and U-joint from the front. But there will be 8 M10 x 1.5 socket headed cap screws used on the adapter flange...

Since these are smaller than the drilled/tapped holes in the original fixed flange they won't be engaging those threads. They are 12.9 class cap screw with a tensile strength of 174,000 psi (specs were listed in a previous post). The torque spec should come in ~ 62 ft-lbs (highlighted)...

I also intended to use these bolts through the CV joint side...

A shouldered socket headed cap screw (no zinc coating). I found that the shoulder interfered with the CV joint body so I can't use them. So today I stopped by Fastenal and ordered some M10 x 1.5 x 50 (under head length) 12.9 class zinc plated socket head cap screws to use in their place. Much better for corrosion than the simple black oxide.

The cap screws that will run backwards through the fixed flange will be secured with Loctite 263...

ON EDIT...

I wondered the same thing till I saw the video, looks like the thread diameter in the hub are larger than than the thread diameter in the adapter, so no interference with clamping the two parts together.

You nailed it brother.

 

[heatsoaked12]

fantastic work,look forward to hearing the results (nvh) and total weight difference.

 

[- Aj -]

Bump?....

 

[Tob]

A valiant effort Aj. I have quite a bit going on right now but am picking at this one ever so slowly. I promise to update when I have something substantial. I'm not turning my back on this one.

No way.

 

[einehund]

This thread is exactly why I'm about to pull the trigger on an OEM driveshaft. I can't thank you enough for your input to the GT500 section TOB. f'n good on you!

 

[Tob]

I spent some time freezing my behind off in the garage today. I'm trying to keep this project moving forward as much as I have a lot going on right now.

I started pulling the factory shaft out by removing the bolts at the transmission fixed flange. Next I removed the two bolts/spacers at the carrier, roughly in the middle of the driveshaft. I finished by removing the bolts at the pinion flange at the rear. This finally gave me the opportunity to compare the factory '07-'12 shaft to that of the '13/'14.

More similarity between the two that I would have thought.

I can't attest to the internals but externally, the rear CV joints are the same.

I noticed something rather interesting. The CV joint at the middle of the old shaft looked very much like the CV joint at the front of the '13 shaft, so I disassembled the shaft from my '09...

Boots are the same...my '09...

...and the '13...

For a minute I thought there might be a way to get a fixed flange for free that would save a lot of money (that's a '13 flange in my hand)...

Especially since the '13 flange fit the '09 shaft CV joint perfectly...

Only problem, it isn't machined properly (splines, etc).

More of the two...

Looks like I can pillage the paired washers and possibly the bolts from the '09 shaft and use them up front on the '13 shaft.

I need to fit and verify clearance between the '13 shaft and the earlier tunnel as well as find the appropriate socket in order to remove the flange nut.

From what I've seen with driveshaft swaps of similar diameter there are at least two potential points where there could be contact. I may have to relocate the emergency cable bracket over a couple of inches...

As well as flatten or remove the stamped 'hump' (with the hole in it) in the center of the tunnel...

Same area, only looking towards the rear from the front...

It's been a long road and I'm trying to keep this one moving forward.

:rockon:

 

[stkjock]

Interesting finds. Keep up the good work.

 

[03 DSG Snake]

Interesting finds. Keep up the good work.

+1 Thanks for the updates. Interesting project so far.

 

[Tob]

I set out to remove the fixed flange today, as I had picked up a couple of different sockets (a 1-1/4" and a 32mm...wasn't sure but both fit) this morning. What I did not pick up was the proper puller. I had a few pullers at home and figured I could get at least one of them to somehow work. Ford shows this type in their service manual...

Getting the 1-1/4" nut off was easy enough. I tried briefly to pry the flange off. Wasn't happening. It was at this point that I found out that any combination of bearing splitter, 2 jaw, 3 jaw, steering wheel pulley, or harmonic balancer removal tool was destined to fail. There either wasn't enough room and/or it just wasn't happening.


Plan B was a chunk of angle iron, a nut/bolt, drilling some holes, and a few minutes with the TIG.

I was surprised how tight the fit was. I couldn't pull it off by hand until the puller brought almost all the way to the end of the shaft.

Something I had overlooked was the o-ring.

Looked innocent enough...

As I plucked out the 0-ring with a length of sharpened Tungsten I noticed all the shavings that were packed in tightly along with it...

Looks like I'll be flushing out the tranny. With less than 2,000 miles I suspect that the shavings weren't cleaned out after manufacturing and before assembling. A bit disconcerting I suppose.

Almost there.

 

[03 DSG Snake]

I want you to adopt me and my vehicles. :banana:

 

[Tob]

Between NY and CA, the fees would kill me.

 

[GT Premi]

Tob, you sure those shavings aren't a result of you removing the flange? The splines look like they have some scoring on them. The tightness you were feeling could have been from the flange being slightly tweaked as you were pulling it out. Your improvised puller might not have been precise enough.

 

[Catmonkey]

If it scored them coming out, you know it had to score them going in. Same problem.

 

[GT Premi]

If it scored them coming out, you know it had to score them going in. Same problem.

Not necessarily. They have precision tools at the factory. Tob used a makeshift puller that might have pulled the flange out at an [unnoticeable] angle.

 

[Tob]

You can't pull it off at an angle. The puller worked perfectly.

Those shavings were in the tranny trying to get out but were stopped at the o-ring.

 

[Tob]

Since I was out in the shop I wanted to take care of a couple of things. I've paid close attention to as many driveshaft swaps across the web as possible. That, in concert with the installation instructions from a few different manufacturers gave me an idea of what to look out for.

I have still yet to fit the shaft from the '13 GT500 into my '09. But since I really don't feel like repeatedly installing the shaft and then removing it for 'clearancing' I decided to incorporate some of what I've seen. A few careful blows with a mini sledge to some elevated sections in the tunnel as well as relocating an emergency brake cable bolt/bracket that loops over the shaft in the tunnel.

I drilled a nearby hole using a cordless drill and a 1/4" steel bit.

I filled the original hole with a liberal dousing of RTV sealant.

I'll check the available clearance with the shaft in place and hopefully I'll be satisfied with what I see.

I also picked up some hardware from Ford for the flange install. Starting with a new washer (for between the flange nut and output shaft/flange face)...

A new Mexican o-ring...

And new nut...

The Nylon gets trashed upon install/removal so you really shouldn't reuse the original nut.

Ford does have use for the old nut though (and its a great idea)...

So I started by inserting a new o-ring into my new flange "assembly." You can see how the old one got deformed by the splines on the shaft...

I then used a M10 x 1.5 bolt, some assorted washers, a socket that fit over the output shaft (without touching it) to draw the flange much of the way onto the shaft. Far from optimum but it did the job. A length of threaded rod in the aforementioned metric size along with the appropriate nut /washers would have been much better but I didn't have it.

When I get the chance I'll install and torque the new nut to 105 lb-ft and finally be able to fit the shaft.