United Airlines New "Passenger Removal" Tactics

[terrible one]

United didn't punch anyone. The airport police did. And united offered more than the price of the ticket back to the gentleman.
He wanted to throw a temper tantrum and not cooperate. If you do that any business you are opening yourself up to a use of force by the investigating authority. I've seen plenty of videos of people not cooperating in fast food restaurants getting forcibly taken down and arrested by police. Why is it different on a plane?

 

[Gravik]

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

[Ford>Chevy]

Aviation is often scrutinized heavily when ANYTHING happens. I'm a pilot myself and see it all the time and both my parents were/are in the aviation industry themselves. Federal Aviation Regulations (FAR's) require passenger compliance in any circumstance with crew instructions (announced during every safety brief). You disobey a flight crew enough and refuse to deplane, be disorderly, violent, etc....stuff like this happens (It's a felony, you wouldn't believe how many people I talk too that DON'T know this). The flight as I know was oversold (common occurrence in the airline industry, hard concept to understand unless you're in airline operations/management). This passenger in particular was asked to deboard to accomodate a dead heading crew (the airline term for getting an entire flight crew, pilots and flight attendants from where they live to the airport where they start working). Flight crews often live far away from their base.....for example you could live in Boston and commute to Chicago to begin your trip. This is where deadheading comes into play and this was what happened on this flight. FAR's grant full authority to the pilot in command to do whatever he requires to keep a flight safe. You're being a PITA? Congratulations, the Captain can personally request you leave the flight/mandate you exit the aircraft. If you don't and you're on the ground, police come and forcibly remove you and have the wonderful venture of being questioned. If you're airborne, guess what you'll probably be landing somewhere other than your final destination, police will board, and you'll be removed. Simple as that. The Feds DO NOT put up with this non-sense after 9/11. Flight Attendants even have "flex-cuffs" to restrain passengers in flight. United went about very poorly with this situation in particular, and could have dealt with it MUCH better, but just very poor execution on their part. If you're ever super curious, read the "Agreement" next time you buy an airline ticket. You'd be surprised what you'll find in fine print.......

 

[32ValveRom]

Hey next time McDonald's screws up and gives your order away but offers money to correct your order, you should yell and screw like a bitch until the cops come then don't comply when they tell you to leave until they drag you out.
Tell me who will be in the right then.

Screwing up my order and offering my money back is one thing. Screwing up and randomly selecting me to correct their mistake, refusing me service until I come back the next day over something that's completely not my fault is another.

Being "not happy" does not make you entitled.

Failing to comply with the airline staff / police / airport security when given specific instructions, therefore; holding up the plane and creating a scene / causing inconvenience to the other 156 passengers and staff DOES.

Bottom line is it is NOT your plane and the airline reserves the right to decide who and how they do buisness.

If you dont appreciate the way the airlines do buisness, don't ever fly again.

Okay, just had to make sure we cleared that up. My thing is the ethical side of doing a business and messing up (which is normal) but expecting one random customer to be okay with being denied service because of a company error. I don’t think what the guy did was okay but I do think it was normal. As a matter a fact, if everyone on this forum were each placed in a similar scenario, I think a significantly large amount of you would’ve done something similar.

 

[Ford>Chevy]

I thought people getting bumped was a pretty common occurrence with all of the carriers.

Yes, you are correct. Many times airlines will bump people from flights, and give them travel vouchers (usually raw money or hotels/food vouchers) and a guaranteed seat on a later/or next flight.

 

[limitedex]

Aviation is often scrutinized heavily when ANYTHING happens. I'm a pilot myself and see it all the time and both my parents were/are in the aviation industry themselves. Federal Aviation Regulations (FAR's) require passenger compliance in any circumstance with crew instructions (announced during every safety brief). You disobey a flight crew enough and refuse to deplane, be disorderly, violent, etc....stuff like this happens (It's a felony, you wouldn't believe how many people I talk too that DON'T know this). The flight as I know was oversold (common occurrence in the airline industry, hard concept to understand unless you're in airline operations/management). FAR's grant full authority to the pilot in command to do whatever he requires to keep a flight safe. You're being a PITA? Congratulations, the Captain can personally request you leave the flight/mandate you exit the aircraft. If you don't and you're on the ground, police come and forcibly remove you and have the wonderful venture of being questioned. If you're airborne, guess what you'll probably be landing somewhere other than your final destination, police will board, and you'll be removed. Simple as that. The Feds DO NOT put up with this non-sense after 9/11. Flight Attendants even have "flex-cuffs" to restrain passengers in flight. United went about very poorly with this situation in particular, and could have dealt with it MUCH better, but just very poor execution on their part. If you're ever super curious, read the "Agreement" next time you buy an airline ticket. You'd be surprised what you'll find in fine print.......

Well said, pretty much changed my opinion of the whole situation.

 

[Ford>Chevy]

This passenger in particular was asked to deboard to accomodate a dead heading crew (the airline term for getting an entire flight crew, pilots and flight attendants from where they live to the airport where they start working). Flight crews often live far away from their base.....for example you could live in Boston and commute to Chicago to begin your trip. This is where deadheading comes into play and this was what happened on this flight. FAR's grant full authority to the pilot in command to do whatever he requires to keep a flight safe. Not to condemn passengers in any way, but you really do not understand how much power a PIC has. We have full authority in regards to the safe conduction of YOUR flight. So lets say we asked this Doctor to de-board numerous times on the ground and he refused and someone else politely accepted. What if this guy had a breakdown in flight? How would you feel as a passenger? How do you think we feel as a flight crew? Not good......United went about very poorly with this situation in particular, and could have dealt with it MUCH better, but just very poor execution on their part. If you're ever super curious, read the "Agreement" next time you buy an airline ticket. You'd be surprised what you'll find in fine print......numerous information is contained about "contract of carriage," your agreement with the airline, certain tax information (more than you think), etc.

 

[terrible one]

Screwing up my order and offering my money back is one thing. Screwing up and randomly selecting me to correct their mistake, refusing me service until I come back the next day over something that's completely not my fault is another.




Okay, just had to make sure we cleared that up. My thing is the ethical side of doing a business and messing up (which is normal) but expecting one random customer to be okay with being denied service because of a company error. I don’t think what the guy did was okay but I do think it was normal. As a matter a fact, if everyone on this forum were each placed in a similar scenario, I think a significantly large amount of you would’ve done something similar.

I doubt it. Again overboarding is a common occurrence. You want cheap tickets? Guess what the airline will commonly overbook knowing that a certain amount of people will cancel there tickets.
Being upset and frustrated about it is perfectly normal. I'd definitely be mad having to exit a plane I paid for. But under no circumstances would I start a fight and have to be forcibly removed. That is where it went wrong. I doubt most on this forum will take it to that level either.

 

[Corbic]

Well said, pretty much changed my opinion of the whole situation.

Doesn't change mine at all. We all know trouble makes get booted. No one doubts that.

The only reason he became a trouble maker is because of United's colossal **** up.

You are blaming the victim. It's like saying "you got raped because you got drunk and dressed slutty".

 

[Ford>Chevy]

Doesn't change mine at all. We all know trouble makes get booted. No one doubts that.

The only reason he became a trouble maker is because of United's colossal **** up.

You are blaming the victim. It's like saying "you got raped because you got drunk and dressed slutty".

Well technically the airlines "can" remove you from your flight regardless if you are a paying passenger. That is the rule, and passengers are expected to comply......messed up I know, but that's the way it is. Contract of Carriage regulations specifically state your seat is "not guaranteed," when you buy your ticket. Believe it or not there is language when you buy an airline ticket that indirectly says "we can deny issuing you a seat for a number of reasons." If you are the poor gentleman in this case who has already boarded, then it comes down to being compliant with the flight crew of which he was not. An unfortunate situation all around, even more so now that he has the chance of being charged with a felony. But your point is well taken, and understandable.....good conversation going here.

 

[03cobra#694]

I'm pretty sure the point has been made here by someone who is in the know. @Ford>Chevy , are you a captain on a known airline?

 

[32ValveRom]

I doubt it. Again overboarding is a common occurrence. You want cheap tickets? Guess what the airline will commonly overbook knowing that a certain amount of people will cancel there tickets.
Being upset and frustrated about it is perfectly normal. I'd definitely be mad having to exit a plane I paid for. But under no circumstances would I start a fight and have to be forcibly removed. That is where it went wrong. I doubt most on this forum will take it to that level either.

That doesn't matter because the average person isn't aware of all that. Many people never fly and even many of those who do travel still aren't aware their flight can overbook and single them out. In other words, the average person isn't a "read the small fine print" type.

You think it went wrong when the guy started to fight back. I think it went wrong when the airline overbooked and decided selecting random people to deplane. Agree to disagree

 

[SolarYellow]

Doesn't change mine at all. We all know trouble makes get booted. No one doubts that.

The only reason he became a trouble maker is because of United's colossal **** up.

You are blaming the victim. It's like saying "you got raped because you got drunk and dressed slutty".

Stop. For the love of god just stop with the irrelevant comparisons. What this man did is in no way, shape or form comparable to being raped due to how you dress or drink.

 

[Ford>Chevy]

I'm pretty sure the point has been made here by someone who is in the know. @Ford>Chevy , are you a captain on a known airline?

No sir I am not, but my mother is heavily involved in airline operations and with pilots, and my father used to fly for the FBI, and I myself am just about done with my Commercial Pilot Certificate (allows us to fly for hire), so I have had my nose deep in the Regulations manual, and I learn a good bit from my parents as well. Plus my college major I'm currently enrolled in specifically has a section on Aviation Law, something which this incident in particular falls under.

 

[03cobra#694]

No sir I am not, but my mother is heavily involved in airline operations and with pilots, and my father used to fly for the FBI, and I myself am just about done with my Commercial Pilot Certificate (allows us to fly for hire), so I have had my nose deep in the Regulations manual, and I learn a good bit from my parents as well. Plus my college major I'm currently enrolled in specifically has a section on Aviation Law, something which this incident in particular falls under.

Thanks for the reply. My neighbor flies private small luxury aircraft. I need to ask him about this topic. If he's ever home. Lol

 

[03cobra#694]

BTW, get over yourselves.

 

[Corbic]

Stop. For the love of god just stop with the irrelevant comparisons. What this man did is in no way, shape or form comparable to being raped due to how you dress or drink.

#customerlivesmatter

 

[HudsonFalcon]

The only thing I want to know is if he'll still get his miles.

 

[Kevins89notch]

Thank you Ford>Chevy for your more inside view.

Even before your comments, I fully understand basically everything you said. I like to think I'm able to see both sides of a basic argument.

I think the biggest item I have with a problem with is that it wasn't oversold, he was on the plane, and then they decided to yank 4 passengers. I understand that happens very rarely. Given that it happens such a super small number of times compared to how many flights they have a year, they handled it very poorly. Being so rare, they should have gone up another $200, and waited for a hand to pop up. 3 of the 4 people took the $400 or $800. At $1,000, maybe someone else would have taken it. if not, maybe $1,200.

 

[_Snake_]

Yes, you are correct. Many times airlines will bump people from flights, and give them travel vouchers (usually raw money or hotels/food vouchers) and a guaranteed seat on a later/or next flight.

I was bumped probably 5 times over a 2 year period when I travelled more often. Not one voucher. I don't know if it's becoming more common now.....