Can't stop thinking about cams. Advice wanted.

[50stangpower]

2013 with the following mods:
Upper pulley, 90mm idler, belt gripper
Twin 65mm throttle body
Jlt carbon intake
Kooks long tunes, off-road H, boss side exit, resonators, and stock axleback (yeah I know it's alot)
Full BMR REAR suspension
Drag radials
737rwhp

I want the muscle car sound and wouldn't mind the 70rw as well. Approaching 800hp should I consider oil pump gears or any other timing components? I would be getting NSR cams so it's not like the OPG''s are easy at that point. What do I need to do in order to keep my motor alive and happy if I go this route?

Thanks in advance.

 

[07 Black Beauty]

I'm considering a similar setup and the shop I use recommended going E-85 for safety. The cams will drop your boost which will help w/ the longevity of the motor.

 

[manny231988]

I've also been considering this and would like to do myself but the timing of the cams has me scared haha, even though I'm a heavy construction mechanic this engine intimidates me some , any small screwup and we talking some real cash, crank gear and opg would be the only thing as black beauty said the cams lower the boost so I would think 93 octane would be fine but of course the corn would be even better if it available to you, its a 2 he drive for me so e85 ain't really an option.

 

[50stangpower]

E85 is not available to me so I need to stay with 93. I am paying a professional here. I don't want to afford to screw it up!

 

[RBB]

I'd do the oil pump gears, billet secondary gears, HD chains and the passenger side tensioner.

An 8mm guide pin upgrade wouldn't be a bad idea either if the engine is out. It's cheap and good insurance.

 

[blowbye]

If your looking for reliability and longevity go with nsr cams. Looking back on my build i would of bought the l&m nsr cams. Heavy springs just wear the timing components faster.

Sent from my LGLS775 using the svtperformance.com mobile app

 

[Catmonkey]

I'd do the oil pump gears, billet secondary gears, HD chains and the passenger side tensioner.

An 8mm guide pin upgrade wouldn't be a bad idea either if the engine is out. It's cheap and good insurance.

I'd add the billet crank gear to that list. Almost all aftermarket cams will come with 12mm threads, so you will need new cam bolts. I'd get a set of ARP cam bolts.

 

[50stangpower]

I would be getting NSR cams and the engine doesn't need pulled. That's the situation. It's another few grand at least probably to pull the motor and do the timing compenets.

 

[Catmonkey]

You asked, we answered. You can still do billet secondary gears and HD chains along with ARP cam bolts and upgraded secondary tensioners without removing the timing chain cover.

 

[50stangpower]

Ok and all that stuff you would recommend even if I don't do oil pump gears?

 

[Bad Company]

The engine has to be dropped down to remove the driver's side valve cover or remove the brake master cylinder and brake booster. The amount of labor is very similar in each case from what people in the know say about doing this mod. Most say it is actually quicker and easier to remove the engine. Bill Wise works on these cars a lot and is down in Silver Spring on Columbia Pike, B A Performance. Give him a shout and I think he will tell you it will be easier and less labor to remove the engine to do cams than doing them with the engine in the car. JDM Engineering is in Freehold NJ which isn't as far as you think from you. I'd bet they'd want to drop the engine also.

At the power levels you're going, the OPG change is necessary in my mind, along with the passenger side secondary tensioner, HD secondary chains and sprockets. If you ever plan on a WOT box you'll need billet crank sprocket with billet primary chains guides and tensioner arms and the 8mm pivot pins.

To have a failure of any one of these parts is extremely costly. A little extra spent now could save you tens of thousands of dollars later. You're also approaching the point of a rod failure at the power levels you want to achieve. You may be better suited to save the money for a built engine at a later time, instead of pushing this one to the limits of having a catastrophic and costly failure in the not too distant future. Yeah the cams will sound nice now.......but a rod going through the block at a later time won't. Take this from someone that has experienced a catastrophic engine failure

 

[Catmonkey]

Kurt after your failure, I have been on a quest to upgrade all these timing components in mine, and when I actually started I went with a bit more camshaft because I didn't intend to do this again. I made the mistake of doing it in the car. In hindsight it would have been less work to just pull the engine, but then I was also swapping intake manifolds and the transmission. To remove the timing cover, the oil cooler adapter has to be removed, and with LTs, that necessitated the removal of the driver's side header.

In that process, I found a way to get the driver's side cam cover off without removing the brake booster. I had removed the pedal assembly from the car to upgrade to the 13-14 clutch master cylinder, so the brake booster was loose. But, unless you remove the brake master cylinder, you're not going to get the booster out of the way, at least on a later car. It barely moves at all.

Being the lazy old guy that I am, I wanted to see if dropping the k-member several inches would gain me the clearance I needed. I did not want to open up the brake system.... again. Close, but no cigar. I then tried jacking up the rear of the transmission to gain a little more clearance with the k-member dropped and somehow the cam cover came off. It somehow went back in too, once I was done without much effort using the same tactic. Perhaps the booster being loose helped. I'm not sure. Sounds like a lot of work, but so is bleeding the brake system, since I'm a one-man show.

 

[paluka21]

I spoke with JDM engineering in NJ about a similar type of job; cams, OPG, timing upgrades, and crank gear. Its definitely expensive but worth it for peace of mind to bolster some of the vulnerable parts of the motor. Still may be on borrowed time with the rods, but keeping rpm's down should help them live longer.

 

[50stangpower]

The engine has to be dropped down to remove the driver's side valve cover or remove the brake master cylinder and brake booster. The amount of labor is very similar in each case from what people in the know say about doing this mod. Most say it is actually quicker and easier to remove the engine. Bill Wise works on these cars a lot and is down in Silver Spring on Columbia Pike, B A Performance. Give him a shout and I think he will tell you it will be easier and less labor to remove the engine to do cams than doing them with the engine in the car. JDM Engineering is in Freehold NJ which isn't as far as you think from you. I'd bet they'd want to drop the engine also.

At the power levels you're going, the OPG change is necessary in my mind, along with the passenger side secondary tensioner, HD secondary chains and sprockets. If you ever plan on a WOT box you'll need billet crank sprocket with billet primary chains guides and tensioner arms and the 8mm pivot pins.

To have a failure of any one of these parts is extremely costly. A little extra spent now could save you tens of thousands of dollars later. You're also approaching the point of a rod failure at the power levels you want to achieve. You may be better suited to save the money for a built engine at a later time, instead of pushing this one to the limits of having a catastrophic and costly failure in the not too distant future. Yeah the cams will sound nice now.......but a rod going through the block at a later time won't. Take this from someone that has experienced a catastrophic engine failure

Bill who is who I have been talking to. He said he does NOT drop the engine, I also talked to jdm but that pricing is more then I want to invest.

 

[Info@Injected]

Do it! We installed a custom grind set in a customers 13 GT500 and they sounded wicked!

Let me know if you have any questions!

 

[RBB]

If your looking for reliability and longevity go with nsr cams. Looking back on my build i would of bought the l&m nsr cams. Heavy springs just wear the timing components faster.

Sent from my LGLS775 using the svtperformance.com mobile app

What cams did you go with and did you have a failure?

 

[blowbye]

I have some great cams. I installed all hd stuff when i did my build. I have not had any issues. Just looking back and the spring rate i had to install i would of used a cam that would allow stock valve springs.

Sent from my LGLS775 using the svtperformance.com mobile app

 

[50stangpower]

I will be having bill at BAP install his CUSTOM ground comp cams that are NSR. The question I have is that he installs them without pulling the engine so it would be more costly for me to add the other things. Is it worth that cost?

 

[Catmonkey]

Everything that has been recommended is a preventative measure from possible engine damage. There are no guarantee's when you start upping the power with an otherwise stock engine. The upgraded secondary tensioners are the only items that could add a little additional power. I think anyone that wants a lot of cam overlap to sound like a hot rod is after a different dynamic than those pursuing more power. These cams typically move the power and torque curves up the rpm range to where max horsepower is at the failure point of the stock rods. If you keep the rpm down, you could possibly get away without some of these mentioned upgrades. But for about $150 for the upgraded secondary sprockets and chains, I'd still recommend that at a minimum. These components have to be removed to install the cams, regardless, so there is no additional labor involved. Same goes for the secondary tensioners and cam bolts. However, the upgraded components start adding up quick. There is nothing cheap about these engines.

The secondary sprockets and primary sprockets are powdered metal components. While they can take a good bit of abuse, the OEM secondary sprockets have been known to fail. You break a cam sprocket and you can count on bending valves and damaging pistons. Worse case would take the cylinder head and block and turn them into scrap in the process. You have to look at those optional parts as insurance. The stock camshaft is extremely docile and the stock timing components are engineered accordingly. It all boils down as to whether you feel lucky, because it is a crap shoot. You pays your money, and you takes your choice.

 

[50stangpower]

Thanks for that post above. I'm not looking for all out power, just a street car. I'm mainly looking
For the muscle car lope. With that being said is that the type that moves the power way up or the "all out" power cams? Bill mainly specs the same cams and degree's them differently for different pipes and such. I have no problem with a few extra hundred $$ if it's worth it at the time.