No Replacement for Displacement | Is it Time for a 5.7L Tall-Deck Coyote???

No Replacement for Displacement | Is it Time for a 5.7L Tall-Deck Coyote???

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Let’s face it, the 5.0 Coyote V8 has introduced an era of Ford Pony Car dominance the likes of which we’ve never really seen. The Terminator absolutely crushed the competition in its day, but that was a time where Mustang was really the only active pony car offering. Coyote has had challengers from both Mopar and Chevy during its three (so far) generation run. In the GT class the competition doesn’t really touch if, and when you start adding mods the dominance is even more apparent.

However, once you leave the world of performance cars and step into the truck arena things are a bit difference. When you start adding weight low end torque and a flat torque curve start to become more important than high-revving horsepower. Then you have to consider that both GM and Ram are offering much larger displacement V8s. The GM 6.2L truck engine is particularly potent; and other than the cylinder deactivation eventually crapping out, it’s a pretty good engine. Rumor has it that Mopar is going to start installing a larger displacement HEMI in their half-ton trucks as well.

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GM built this tall-deck LSX block and it can be stretched to 454 cubic inches.

That leaves Ford with a comparatively small, yet far more technologically advanced, 5.0 V8 and a bunch of V6 engines. While the 3.5L EcoBoost is a seriously powerful engine, there’s a large contingent of buyers who can’t see themselves anything other than a big Ford V8. Ford those buyers even the fantastic Coyote may fall a little short of their expectations. But there is a throwback technique Ford could use to bring a new level of performance to the Coyote platform.

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Which of these appeal to you?

The first Ford modular engine was a 4.6L V8 (progenitor of the 5.0 Coyote) introduced in 1991 Lincoln Town Car. Six years later Ford stretched the 4.6 block to make the 5.4L V8 that we came to know and love across multiple utilitarian and SVT platforms. The same method could be applied to the 3rd Gen Coyote, and if the stroke were kept the same as the five-four you would end up with a 5.7L V8. To me; that is an appropriately sized top-of-the-line ½ ton truck V8, and it would take a minimal amount of effort from Ford Powertrain Engineering.

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Ford has dropped a tall-deck 32V V8 in a "truck" before. Look up the Lincoln Blackwood.

We would only need a handful of new parts to make this work. Of course you’re going to need a new tall-deck block, but that’s easy enough. They can either stretch the Coyote mold of Coyote’ize the old 5.4 block. Then there’re new rods and probably a cam profile. The primary timing chains and front cover are going to need to be a bit longer, and the intake manifold will have the be a bit wider. The wiring harness and exhaust will require a little tweeking. They might be able to just know the dust off the Trinity 5.8L crank tooling and use those forged arms. In any event, this isn’t rocket science. Ford could make this happen if there was a market for it.

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The 6.2L Ford V8 was nicely sized, but a bit on the piggy side.

So what would a 5.7L tall-Deck Coyote V8 put out? The last time we had big and little V8 options in the F-150 was 2010, back before EcoBoost was a thing. At that time Ford actually bragged about having an All-V8 Engine lineup. You could have a 4.6L (in either 2V or 3V configuration) or a 5.4L 3V. For comparison’s sake let’s focus on the 3V engines. The 4.6L made 292 HP @ 5700RPM and 320 Lb-Ft @ 4000RPM.

While the 5.4L was churning out 320HP @ 5000RPM and 390 Lb-Ft @ 3500RPM* (these are the factory rating while using E-85, on regular gas peak numbers were 310/365 at the same RPM readings). The current 3rd Gen 5.0 in a 2018+ F-150 is rated at 395HP @ 5750RPM and 400 Lb-Ft @ 4500 RPM.

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We don't look back at the 5.4L 3V very fondly, but it did make decent torque at low RPMs.

That’s a difference of 28HP and 70Lb-Ft,and the 5.4 was making peak torque 500RPMs earlier on its highest output 3V version. Even if the a 5.7L Coyote made roughly the same increases over the 5.0 as we saw with the old 3V engines you’d be looking at a top line V8 making somewhere in the neighborhood of 425HP @ 5500RPM and 470 Lb-Ft @ 4000RPM. That’s enough to make it the most powerful V8 gas engine offering in a half-ton truck (2019+ GM 6.2 V8 makes 420HP @ 5600RPM and 460 Lb-Ft @ 4100RPM).

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The 5.0 Coyote is a great engine, but the F-150 could use a little more V8 grunt.

Personally, I think if Ford were to produce such an engine we could expect output to be a little higher. That’s mostly due to all the technology advantages the 3rd Gen Coyote architecture has over the old 3-Valve stuff. If I were to hazard a guess I would peg a tall-deck Coyote headed V8 at around 435HP @ 5700 RPM and 485 Lb-Ft @ 4000 RPM.

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A positive displacement blower is a great way to add torque, but a longer stroke from the factory would be a lot more economical.

Now the big question, is there a market for a long stroke Coyote? There was a market for a 351 over a 302, and a 5.4 over a 4.6. I don’t see why there wouldn’t be buyers for a torquier version of one of the best V8s Ford has produced. But it really comes down to you guys. If a 5.7L Coyote in an F-150 is something you’d like to see post in this thread. Ford keeps an eye on SVTP, so they’ll see your opinion. Let them know.

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Just imagine a 5.8L Coyote headed V8 in a new Cobra Mustang from Ford. Tell them to make it a reality.
-SID297
 
A new 5.7 could be shared with the F150,F250,F350 as a base engine for the F250.

Sure, and that makes a lot of sense for the truck line, not for the Mustang though. The Camaro is able to be so competitive because GM is able to amortize the cost of basically the entire car; Cadillac has the alpha chassis on 2 vehicles I think, the LT1 and v6 engines are spread across several brands and platforms, same with the auto transmission... Ford really only has the engine and automatic transmission costs of the mustang covered by the trucks, but if the 5.0 goes to a mustang only engine, I could see that impacting the future performance potential of the mustang... Either that or the 5.0 going away in favor of a TT v6 offering, but I doubt it since the 5.0 really is a spectacular engine.
 
Sure, and that makes a lot of sense for the truck line, not for the Mustang though. The Camaro is able to be so competitive because GM is able to amortize the cost of basically the entire car; Cadillac has the alpha chassis on 2 vehicles I think, the LT1 and v6 engines are spread across several brands and platforms, same with the auto transmission... Ford really only has the engine and automatic transmission costs of the mustang covered by the trucks, but if the 5.0 goes to a mustang only engine, I could see that impacting the future performance potential of the mustang... Either that or the 5.0 going away in favor of a TT v6 offering, but I doubt it since the 5.0 really is a spectacular engine.

It would be no different than the 5.4 was. The 5.4 only was used in special production mustangs. The new 5.7 would not replace the 5.0 as a standard mustang engine.
 
I think the Coyote is fine the way it is, just drop it in a truck, it will do fine!!!!

Its already in a truck and it doesnt tow nearly aswell as the ecoboost 3.5.

The 5.0 has to rev out to make the power. A truck engine news to have lowend tq and make full tq at 3500 or less
 
Would LOVE to see a tall deck Coyote in the trucks. Unfortunately, I'll still be driving my current 5.0L truck for another 8 years or so; so it won't be bringing me to the market regardless.
 
I'm working on a story featuring info about a prototype "EcoBoost" 5.0.


I stand can't understand why this is not a thing yet (see my comments in the 2020 GT500 section). With Ford's line of Ecoboosts and many many Euro cars with Twin Turbo V8s, how is the new redesigned GT500 not a Twin Turbo V8? I just can't wrap my head around it. This would of been end game against the Demon/red eye/hellcat/heldabeast. You could do the stock key/track key option again with one low boost and one with added boost.
 
It would be no different than the 5.4 was. The 5.4 only was used in special production mustangs. The new 5.7 would not replace the 5.0 as a standard mustang engine.

You're still not following me. If the 5.0 becomes only a Mustang engine and not a mustang and truck engine, where else are they going to share the cost as far as the mustang engine is concerned?
The mustang does not share a chassis with any other vehicles as far as I know.
The 2.3L is shared between the ranger, explorer, mustang, and maybe some other SUVs I'm not thinking of.
The 10r80 is shared with the mustang, F-150 and the Lincoln SUVs
Currently the 5.0 is shared between the mustang and F-150.

If the 5.0 goes to a Mustang only engine, then 50% of the mustang's powertrain options (excluding specialty models) are specific only to the mustang; being the MT-82 and 5.0 engine respectively. That's not going to bode well for the future of the mustang, they really need to be able to spread the cost of the 5.0 engine out and the F-150 product line is the best place to do that.


I know this thread is about a 5.7L engine in the F-150, but it has to be viewed from a "full picture" approach.

I stand can't understand why this is not a thing yet (see my comments in the 2020 GT500 section). With Ford's line of Ecoboosts and many many Euro cars with Twin Turbo V8s, how is the new redesigned GT500 not a Twin Turbo V8? I just can't wrap my head around it. This would of been end game against the Demon/red eye/hellcat/heldabeast. You could do the stock key/track key option again with one low boost and one with added boost.

Look how much room there is between the heads and frame rails and you'll understand exactly why. Going Hot V would basically be starting from the ground up and cost an insane amount of money.
 
You're still not following me. If the 5.0 becomes only a Mustang engine and not a mustang and truck engine, where else are they going to share the cost as far as the mustang engine is concerned?
The mustang does not share a chassis with any other vehicles as far as I know.
The 2.3L is shared between the ranger, explorer, mustang, and maybe some other SUVs I'm not thinking of.
The 10r80 is shared with the mustang, F-150 and the Lincoln SUVs
Currently the 5.0 is shared between the mustang and F-150.

If the 5.0 goes to a Mustang only engine, then 50% of the mustang's powertrain options (excluding specialty models) are specific only to the mustang; being the MT-82 and 5.0 engine respectively. That's not going to bode well for the future of the mustang, they really need to be able to spread the cost of the 5.0 engine out and the F-150 product line is the best place to do that.


I know this thread is about a 5.7L engine in the F-150, but it has to be viewed from a "full picture" approach.



Look how much room there is between the heads and frame rails and you'll understand exactly why. Going Hot V would basically be starting from the ground up and cost an insane amount of money.

The cost of developing has already been shared. At this point you dont need to share the 5.0 with the truck division. Which the 5.0 is now alot less trucks. The 2.7 has become the leading number of the engine options for the trucks.

Being the fact that the 5.7 would share alot of the same features as the 5.0 it could easily be done. Mind you im not a fan of the mt82 and its flaws.
 
I stand can't understand why this is not a thing yet (see my comments in the 2020 GT500 section). With Ford's line of Ecoboosts and many many Euro cars with Twin Turbo V8s, how is the new redesigned GT500 not a Twin Turbo V8? I just can't wrap my head around it. This would of been end game against the Demon/red eye/hellcat/heldabeast. You could do the stock key/track key option again with one low boost and one with added boost.

I still think they'd love to do it, it's just still a matter of packaging for assembly and warranty purposes. Mercedes can pass along the cost of slower production time and repair hours on a TT V8 AMG much easier than Ford can with their assembly process of other run of the mill Mustangs. If they can ever figure out how to efficiently package all the the cold side piping to quickly drop in/out the crate, we're in business. It's a matter of time.
 
Sure, and that makes a lot of sense for the truck line, not for the Mustang though. The Camaro is able to be so competitive because GM is able to amortize the cost of basically the entire car; Cadillac has the alpha chassis on 2 vehicles I think, the LT1 and v6 engines are spread across several brands and platforms, same with the auto transmission... Ford really only has the engine and automatic transmission costs of the mustang covered by the trucks, but if the 5.0 goes to a mustang only engine, I could see that impacting the future performance potential of the mustang... Either that or the 5.0 going away in favor of a TT v6 offering, but I doubt it since the 5.0 really is a spectacular engine.


Put the 5.7 in the trucks and Bronco and keep the 5.0 in the Mustang where it belongs since purist are always gonna want a V8 Mustang.
 
5.7 for the F150, and I still say the Raptor needs to get the 7 liter. Make it happen, Ford. I will NEVER buy an eco-junk, I don't care how much power it makes.
 
Should have been an aluminum block, direct injected, 4 valve 6.2. It would have been an evolutionary path similar but faster than the 4.6 2V to the 5.8 4V. And it would be superior to any tall deck Coyote power wise. Wouldn't cost much more than a tall deck Coyote (relatively speaking) since the machining line was there. We've been handcuffed by the damn bore centers since what, 1992?..... its enough to make you hate Ford if you dwell on it. An inch in block length would have changed everything.
 
IMO the "5.7 coyote" should, and never will be a thing. Like you brought up in the original post, there would be a lot of parts to be designed, changed. Block, timing set, crank, rods, block, intake, and wiring. All of those things are a big thing to tool, and in this time frame with ford pushing the EcoBoost it just isnt palatable.

As for why I dont think it should be a thing. 4v. Honestly, unless boosted, a 4v engine doesnt belong in a low rpm truck motor. A 2v rendition like he 6.2 would be great.


Dont get me wrong, a 5.7 4v coyote based engine sounds wicked. Heck, something like that in a car would drive me to take out a loan and ruin my credit on something I can afford, but it just wont happen.

Sent from my SM-G955U using the svtperformance.com mobile app
 
IMO the "5.7 coyote" should, and never will be a thing. Like you brought up in the original post, there would be a lot of parts to be designed, changed. Block, timing set, crank, rods, block, intake, and wiring. All of those things are a big thing to tool, and in this time frame with ford pushing the EcoBoost it just isnt palatable.

As for why I dont think it should be a thing. 4v. Honestly, unless boosted, a 4v engine doesnt belong in a low rpm truck motor. A 2v rendition like he 6.2 would be great.


Dont get me wrong, a 5.7 4v coyote based engine sounds wicked. Heck, something like that in a car would drive me to take out a loan and ruin my credit on something I can afford, but it just wont happen.

Sent from my SM-G955U using the svtperformance.com mobile app

This opinion always interests me. Why does the valve arrangement matter?
 

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