Who has done solid axle swap? how do you like it?

[ac427cobra]

That is so untrue. How can you say that a solid axle doesnt handle and is only for a drag car? That is the biggest misconception about solids ever. Then how come a solid came in 90% of mustangs since they were ever made?? This argument can go on and on forever. You can make both rears handle nicely without a doubt. How come MM builds their road race cars with solids?? I can go on and on about this, but to say a solid doesnt handle is absolutely rediculous.

Stock SRA vs a Stock IRS the IRS will handle and feel better hands down. But a few changes to the solid, shocks, springs and it handles just fine.

Juiced:

Before you make blanket statements like that, you need to do some research yourself. Otherwise some unsuspecting member will take what you say and think it's fact, when really it's not! :read:

You mentioned MM so I will post a link (see post #64) :

http://www.svtperformance.com/forum...15-cobra-irs-vs-solid-axle-3.html#post7870753

This is the test driver for MM that evaluates suspension for them. Posted are his impressions of the IRS as compared to a Solid Rear Axle equipped with Torque-Arm AND a Panhard Bar. Clearly, there is NO comparison between the two! :dw:

Racers are people that drive cars on the ragged edge of handling. Sort of like balancing a ball bearing on the edge of a razor blade. They squeeze every single tenth out of a lap from their car that they can. They are not some guy that moseys up to the Kwik-Trip at 35 mph to pick up a half gallon of milk and think that their car HANDLES JUST FINE because there were no bubbles in the milk when they got home. ;-)

An IRS has such superior ride and handling that they have been on vehicles such as mini vans and SUV's for years now. This isn't the 60's anymore. Yes we all know the Mustangs from the 60's, 70's, 80's and most of the 90's ALL came with SRA's. Why? Because engineers didn't know any better back then! :read:

Think of any fast car that comes to mind that is known for performance and handling. Corvette, Porsche, Ferrari, Viper, GTR, Lambo, Cadillac CTS-V, BMW M3, M5 etc, etc, etc. What do ALL of these cars have in common besides outstanding speed , handling and performance?!?!?!?!?! :shrug: You guessed it! IRS!!!

If people want to butcher a Cobra and put and SRA into it for drag racing, I guess it's their prerogative. But don't try to tell people that might be trying to make an informed decision about what they should do to their car by giving them incorrect or inaccurate information! :nono::nonono:

FWIW

:thumbsup::coolman::beer:

 

[Juiced46]

Inaccurate information is saying that a solid is ONLY good for drag racing, thats a load of crap and you know it. A solid can be made to handle, you cannot deny that. Well the IRS may handle better depending on what parts are used. You can build a solid axle to handle, and not have to worry about the wheel hopping @ the track, plus the benefit of weight loss. It just humors me that people say putting a solid in a Cobra makes it a drag car and "butchers" it up. I have no doubts you know what you are talking about. But statements like that are bogus. You arent butchering a Cobra by putting in a solid. You unbolt one rear, and bolt the other one in how is that butchering it?? There is no cutting, hacking etc etc to make it work. Its a direct fit.

Is it butchering because it didnt come in the car from the factory?

Well then I guess installing a KB, Whipple etc on and 03/04 should be considered butchering as well. Lets get real here.

My point is, you see it all the time on the internet. People talk about solid swaps in these cars and you get some people that read on the internet that you should only use it for drag racing and have no first hand experience. Going to a solid was one of the best mods I could have done to the car. I dont drag race it a ton. My car is mainly a street car and I love it. I dont have to worry about the hop, $1500 axles, and I saved a ton of weight. My car cuts 1.4 60s @ the track, and TURNS awesome on the street after a few adjustments. Now if I built the car for strictly autocross/roadracing then maybe I would have weighed my options more and kept the IRS. Maybe if I was, like you said, looking for that every last tenth on a lap time then it would be a different story. 99% of the people looking to go solid arent in it to autocross their car. They want a balance of street performance, handling, weight savings and straight line performance. If you do it right and its not hard, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a solid. Now if you are doing an SRA conversion, putting in a spool, 50/50 rear shocks, etc etc and intend on street driving it then yes I agree, its only good for a straight line

But lets cut the horseshit. You can build a solid to have the best of both worlds. Handling (maybe not as good as a fully built IRS to corner carve like a GT3 porsche), weight savings and drag racing. I dont think the OP is concerned about corner carving his car to the maximum. The biggest most inaccurate information about SRAs is that its for straight line only and has no street manners. Hell my solid feels more stable then the wobbly IRS does.

Maybe you are biased yourself because you are in the business of selling IRS upgrade parts. I dont know you from a hole in the wall, but Im sure you know what you are talking about. But for anyone to say a solid is for drag racing, straight line only is a crock of shit and you know it.

 

[ac427cobra]

I have always said, that you can add a crap load of ban-aids to an SRA to make it handle better. Not better than an IRS, but better that the SRA was originally. Band-aids like torque arms, panhard bars, watts links and the like. ALL of these additions will improve the performance of this antiquated suspension component. Also, a crap load of weight as well! Woops, there goes a majority of the weight savings! :idea: Newton's third law of motion will help explain why an SRA will never ride as good as an IRS.

I am 100% confident that about 95% of the members here use their cars as DD as well. And I'll be willing to bet that 95% of members spend at LEAST 99% of the time driving their cars on the street. Most likely more!

Never have I EVER recommended anyone waste their money buying $1,500.00 L-5 axles. It's a total waste of money.

I am biased because I have been convinced for MANY years that the IRS is one of the best automotive innovations since the overhead valve engine!

It is VERY unfortunate that the Cobra IRS was delivered is such a compromised condition. It has turned off many a Cobra owner. I am merely trying to help people fix the problem as opposed to taking a backwards step in technology!

Imagine surfing the internet with a Commodore 64! ;-)

FWIW

 

[mustang_guy]

 

[unit213]

...for anyone to say a solid is for drag racing, straight line only is a crock of shit and you know it.

Indeed sir. To say anything otherwise if flat out ridiculous. He's a "Mustang
purist" so there is no talking sense to him. I find it hysterical that people
get so pissy over a $38K car..."butchering" a Cobra. Give me a break.
It's a gosh damned Mustang on an archaic platform. :loser:

 

[rotor_powerd]

It is VERY unfortunate that the Cobra IRS was delivered is such a compromised condition. It has turned off many a Cobra owner. I am merely trying to help people fix the problem as opposed to taking a backwards step in technology!

Imagine surfing the internet with a Commodore 64! ;-)

I love how you associate "old technology" with somehow being "worse" than XXXXX.:nonono: I understand you have a product to promote, but damn dude, you're starting to stretch it pretty far here in the last 2 posts.

 

[whitevenum]

You guys need to stop argueing... You can make any style work to handle irs or solid. The IRS will always handle better than a solid no matter what you do. A solid just cant grip the road like a irs can, it just doesnt have enough play to hug the always changing road. Ask yourself this "mustang guy" do you want a car for a strate line, going into the 9" , and having 700 plus or more at the wheel? Because you can do two things to your irs that will give you zero wheel hop and amazing bite, the MM grip box package and the stage 5 plus axles. Theres no point to switch to a solid if your not looking to do what i told you to ask yourself. Think about it carefully you lose a lot by going solid because if you do you need to set it up for drag, 31 spline axles, spool, drag suspencion otherwise theres no point. But you gain some too, like i said thing about it carefully!!!!

 

[Juiced46]

Indeed sir. To say anything otherwise if flat out ridiculous. He's a "Mustang
purist" so there is no talking sense to him. I find it hysterical that people
get so pissy over a $38K car..."butchering" a Cobra. Give me a break.
It's a gosh damned Mustang on an archaic platform. :loser:

Thank you!

Adding Torque arms and pan hard bars are not a bandaid. Maybe in your opinion it is. I agree with you though, a fully built IRS will handle better then a fully built SRA. But the statement you are making is just silly. ACcobra You are the one spreading misinformation about solids, that is your opinion. Plenty of people have made SRAs handle great. So if 99% of the people DD their cars on the street they need an IRS?? Come on get real! You can have a balanced SRA, that will hook, shave weight, not hop, not break like an IRS, cheaper parts, and still handle well! I dont think the OP is looking to corner carve his car to the max! Geez I guess the mustangs I see driving around every single day must all have IRS' in them because I sure know that they cant drive their cars around with an ancient SRA:rollseyes All those Foxs and pre IRS cars must all be race cars as well then. If Fords IRS was so good then why did they only put it in a mustang for only a few years?? The thing cant even handle a hard launch on slicks, it will blow the diff cover apart even with a brace! Yea I want that in my car. I also would love to replace $1500 lvl 5 axles everytime I try to drop the hammer on a 28"slick @ 6000 rpms at the track!

You guys need to stop argueing... You can make any style work to handle irs or solid. The IRS will always handle better than a solid no matter what you do. A solid just cant grip the road like a irs can, it just doesnt have enough play to hug the always changing road. Ask yourself this "mustang guy" do you want a car for a strate line, going into the 9" , and having 700 plus or more at the wheel? Because you can do two things to your irs that will give you zero wheel hop and amazing bite, the MM grip box package and the stage 5 plus axles. Theres no point to switch to a solid if your not looking to do what i told you to ask yourself. Think about it carefully you lose a lot by going solid because if you do you need to set it up for drag, 31 spline axles, spool, drag suspencion otherwise theres no point. But you gain some too, like i said thing about it carefully!!!!

It takes more then 2 things to get a high powered IRS car to have bite and not hop. One of them is drag radials and bigger sidewall tires. Say goodbye to all that handling then!!! Ive built IRS cars with every upgrade possible, and they still hop. For a street built SRA that can be Daily driven and perform at the track you DO NOT NEED a 9", you DO NOT NEED a spool. You dont have to build a race car, hes not building an 8 sec car. Shit I must be doing something wrong then :rollseyes:rollseyes Almost 6 yrs with an SRA. I run a Detroit Trutrac, stock bullitt springs and some other suspension goodies. The car cuts 1.4 60fts has gone 10.09@141 on pump gas, and I can drive it 2 hrs to and from the track! Ohh btw, that 2 hour drive may have a few turns as well, and I make it home everytime with comfort and handling. You dont need a DRAG suspension. You know they do make adjustable parts right? Its very simple. Stiffen them up to handle on the street, loosen them up for the track. No need for 50/50s 90/10s, lockers, spools, 9"rears etc etc. Thats all nonsense unless you are building a full out race car. Like I said you can build a BALANCED SRA to hang the tires at the track, not hop, and still be daily driven. Its no rocket science

 

[ac427cobra]

Thank you!

Adding Torque arms and pan hard bars are not a bandaid. Maybe in your opinion it is. I agree with you though, a fully built IRS will handle better then a fully built SRA. But the statement you are making is just silly. ACcobra You are the one spreading misinformation about solids, that is your opinion. Plenty of people have made SRAs handle great. So if 99% of the people DD their cars on the street they need an IRS?? Come on get real! You can have a balanced SRA, that will hook, shave weight, not hop, not break like an IRS, cheaper parts, and still handle well! I dont think the OP is looking to corner carve his car to the max! Geez I guess the mustangs I see driving around every single day must all have IRS' in them because I sure know that they cant drive their cars around with an ancient SRA:rollseyes All those Foxs and pre IRS cars must all be race cars as well then. If Fords IRS was so good then why did they only put it in a mustang for only a few years?? The thing cant even handle a hard launch on slicks, it will blow the diff cover apart even with a brace! Yea I want that in my car. I also would love to replace $1500 lvl 5 axles everytime I try to drop the hammer on a 28"slick @ 6000 rpms at the track!




It takes more then 2 things to get a high powered IRS car to have bite and not hop. One of them is drag radials and bigger sidewall tires. Say goodbye to all that handling then!!! Ive built IRS cars with every upgrade possible, and they still hop. For a street built SRA that can be Daily driven and perform at the track you DO NOT NEED a 9", you DO NOT NEED a spool. You dont have to build a race car, hes not building an 8 sec car. Shit I must be doing something wrong then :rollseyes:rollseyes Almost 6 yrs with an SRA. I run a Detroit Trutrac, stock bullitt springs and some other suspension goodies. The car cuts 1.4 60fts has gone 10.09@141 on pump gas, and I can drive it 2 hrs to and from the track! Ohh btw, that 2 hour drive may have a few turns as well, and I make it home everytime with comfort and handling. You dont need a DRAG suspension. You know they do make adjustable parts right? Its very simple. Stiffen them up to handle on the street, loosen them up for the track. No need for 50/50s 90/10s, lockers, spools, 9"rears etc etc. Thats all nonsense unless you are building a full out race car. Like I said you can build a BALANCED SRA to hang the tires at the track, not hop, and still be daily driven. Its no rocket science

If you think you are more educated about modern day vehicle manufacturing, know more about suspension than a person that designs motor vehicles for a living, develops suspension systems for said vehicles, R&D's said vehicles in all sorts of arenas like an SVT engineer does, then I guess that is my signal to stop arguing with you.

:thumbsup::coolman::beer:

 

[Juiced46]

If you think you are more educated about modern day vehicle manufacturing, know more about suspension than a person that designs motor vehicles for a living, develops suspension systems for said vehicles, R&D's said vehicles in all sorts of arenas like an SVT engineer does, then I guess that is my signal to stop arguing with you.

:thumbsup::coolman::beer:

I never said I know more. I said you probably know what you are talking about if you go back and read what I posted. Just some of your statements about a solid axle being for straight line only is completely bogus and misleading to others. You guys are making it sound if you put an SRA in your car, then its a race car, period. Thats not true at all and you know it, you just cant admit it because you are trying to sell a product which is also a "bandaid" for a poorly designed IRS and you are comparing a Mustang to high dollar cars like Vipers, Porsches etc. which are not in the same league.

Let me see a Cobra IRS pull 1.3-1.4 60fts consistently and drive home from the track (bringing spare axles doesnt count)

 

[Juiced46]

Ohh BTW, you are a much better person then I am because you know more about modern day vehicle manufacturing then I do. Let me bow down to you! :loser::loser:

 

[AntiHeightPunk]

i agree with juiced46, bruce i dont think he is trying to say a race car with an solid will outhandle a racecar with an IRS i think he is trying to say a car with a solid can handle extremly well and more importantly handle well enough for what most need it for...i have a solid and didnt really notce much difference in the handling catagory...but than again i dont really tear up the twisties

 

[black2kstang]

im not tryin to take over the thread but i have my own question. right now i have a built 31 spline sra with full adjustable suspension in my gt. im looking at buying a termi. I want the termi to be mean on the street. not concerned about getting a 9 sec time slip. im looking at a ported eaton with a nitrous setup, possibly swapping to auto but not at first. so, what would be the absolute best setup to hook ON THE STREET? the swap wouldnt cost me anything seeing as how i already have all of the parts, but, if the irs will hook better on the street i would leave it in there.

 

[ac427cobra]

Ohh BTW, you are a much better person then I am because you know more about modern day vehicle manufacturing then I do. Let me bow down to you! :loser::loser:

Don't worry, I'm not going to say you're a better person, say I'm bowing down to you or give you the loser icon! :-D

I'm sorry if I misled you. I am not educated in modern day vehicle manufacture. Personally, over the last 35 or so years, I have concentrated my knowledge gathering on much more expensive equipment than an automobile. There is a much higher return on investment, manufacturing parts for equipment that costs more than a million dollars. :read: This is how I currently make a living!

Back in the 60's, 70's and 80's, we busted our ass trying to figure out how to make an SRA go around corners on a clay/dirt circle track. I can tell you it was no small task!

BTW I do manufacture an IRS kit but I don't do it to make a lot of profit. I have always done this as a SERVICE to Cobra owners after my personal experience as to what this kit can do for an IRS. :idea: It's positively astounding. If you don't believe me, read my SVTP trader rating:

SVTPerformance

and the testimonials on our web site:

Testimonials

After all, my complete kit is almost $300 less compared to a similar kit to MM. So you can CLEARLY see I'm not in this business to make a huge profit!

I think these customer replies pretty much speak for themselves! I can't make this stuff up! After approximately 350 IRS kits, I have YET to have one single unsatisfied customer. In today's day and age, that is simply unheard of! I'll bet you, people that have converted to SRA's aren't NEARLY as happy as my customers! ;-)oke: And that's a fact, Jack!

But......... in the last seven years and approximately 70 track events I've done, I have had the honorable pleasure to meet and become friends with numerous SVT engineers, along with many other Ford employees involved in vehicle manufacturing. (not to mention the Roush R&D guys as well)

I can tell you one thing, these cats know cars. They live, eat, sleep and breathe cars. They dedicate their every waking moment to cars. They don't just go to the drag strip for 6 or 8 hours on a Sunday living their lives 11 seconds at a time! :idea: Many of them have R&D'd pre-production vehicles until they were a smoldering heap. I have seen them at the track with pre-production cars. I have ridden in them as well. These guys are paid to take a car to the track and try to break shit! Run it as hard as you can, for as long as you can. Call for a flatbed if you have to at the end of the day. Trust me when I say these engineers know how to drive a car at the EXTREME limit! If you have any doubts, look up the 2009 Koni Challenge Championship winning Mustang Team. Dean Martin, former SVT Engineer, (and SVT team member of the 2000 Cobra R project) is one of the team winning members of that Koni Championship along with Ken Wilden! They have done things with Mustangs people only dream of.

After as much exposure to these guys that I have had, I really have my doubts when I run into someone on the internet touting the advantages of an SRA. :rollseyes I do appreciate the fact that you have acknowledged that the SRA conversion does not ride or handle as well as an IRS. This is something we can both agree on. :beer:

There seems to be a trend to SRA conversions and many people (converters) have already freely confessed the SRA does not ride or handle like their IRS did IN IT'S STOCK FORM! (imagine a modified version!!) It's my opinion the requirements to fix the IRS are way less expensive and much less of a hassle than trying to convert a Cobra to a SRA. But I digress!

Every person is entitled to their own opinion. I just think I've done a little more research, been exposed to more of the right people, learned much more about suspension technology, driven cars at the extreme limit and have applied it to an automotive component much more than the average SVTP member. I believe the IRS can be VASTLY improved compared to how it was delivered from the factory. Which IMHO is way better than slapping the achaic SRA into a modern day Cobra.

In closing I'd like to say, it's your car, do with it what you want. Cobras are already devaluating fast enough without having people put Mustang GT rear suspensions in them! :idea:

I will never waver on the fact that an IRS will pwn an SRA.

:thumbsup::coolman::beer:


PS I will concede, as I always have, if you have a Mustang that only drag races, then an SRA will serve you well. :-D

 

[bigdave03svt]

for the OP since this thread has derailed ..still a good read thoughop:


i had the plan to stick out the IRS and enjoy it..thats exactly what i did and even built it to go the distance with bushings,braces,half shafts blah blah blah. it rode great and even went down the srtip great. but i wanted to focus more on the track so i did the swap and in went a fully built SRA with 3.73 gears at the same time.

i had mustangs before so i knew how they rode but when youve driven an IRS car for 2 yrs you forget. the first trip around the block i could feel a huge difference. the car was lighter , more nimble and really just felt right.

My man went the extra length and welded the torque boxes too just to keep things tight and that helps too

but the only real difference that i can feel is like i said above. the car feels more natural and lighter on its feet with the SRA. but ride quality and STREET handeling are so minimal its not even worth talking about.

BUT.. if i were a hard core road racer and pushed the car to its cornering limits ,then it would be very different im sure


and i dont see how one could consider "butchering" by putting in the driveline designed to fit in there in the first place. the IRS was an afterthought and though it works good , its "butchered" so to speak to even get it under there.

i mean its an entire subframe mounted with four bolts..then the a-arms and diff just hang there.. kudos to ford for pulling it off but it would have been a better car if they worked that hard on tuning the solid:beer:

 

[sleeperv6]

One more question guys. What gears should I go with? I was thinking 3.73 but some people say to stick with the 3.55's

what are your thoughts?

as far as power I only have a 2.8 pulley and making 450 rwhp but by next year after the SA swap I plan on putting a 2.3 whipple in making about 570 rwhp, will 3.73's be too much?

i think u should go with 3.73's because i had 4.10's with a whipple and i went into 4th gear in the 1/8!! so that was way to much gear for me.

 

[mustang_guy]

i think u should go with 3.73's because i had 4.10's with a whipple and i went into 4th gear in the 1/8!! so that was way to much gear for me.

really, maybe I should stick with the 3.55's since I plan to go whipple aswell

 

[sleeperv6]

really, maybe I should stick with the 3.55's since I plan to go whipple aswell

well its just up to u. 3.55's and 3.73's are not much diffrence, either one of them are good if u plan on going whipple.

 

[rotor_powerd]

If you think you are more educated about modern day vehicle manufacturing, know more about suspension than a person that designs motor vehicles for a living, develops suspension systems for said vehicles, R&D's said vehicles in all sorts of arenas like an SVT engineer does, then I guess that is my signal to stop arguing with you.

:thumbsup::coolman::beer:

Look at those SVT engineers, engineering the GT500 with it's amazing IRS and all that..... oh wait.

Looks to me like the engineers at Ford have decided that a live axle was a better solution for the Mustang platform.

 

[ac427cobra]

Look at those SVT engineers, engineering the GT500 with it's amazing IRS and all that..... oh wait.

Looks to me like the engineers at Ford have decided that a live axle was a better solution for the Mustang platform.

Well, if you knew the whole story about the GT500 and price point HTT was trying to hold, you'd most certainly understand why the car comes with an SRA. The S-197 chassis is so far advanced in comparison to the SN-95 chassis even with the SRA it handles comparably.

As a GT500 owner that drives it on track, I can tell you that if I had my choice of having an SRA under this car, or adding 150#, I'll take the SRA. This car cannot carry ANY additional weight IMHO. It came from the factory with an SRA and that is how it will remain.

There was a reason an SVT Cobra in 2003 cost a hell of a lot more than a Mustang GT. It had better brakes, a better engine, a supercharger and all the associated equipment necessary for said supercharger, a better transmission and last but not least...................................................................... A BETTER REAR SUSPENSION SYSTEM.

Why would anyone want to downgrade their suspension. :shrug: