Just got a motor build quote and have questions

So let me ask this, and im not trying to hijack the thread.
My 13 has 17K on it and just about all the bolt ons making 730whp.
Over the winter should i consider upgrading the timing components? Final goal on the car im hoping to stay around 800WHP. Ill be honest with 4:10s i have hit the rev limit a couple times set at 6500. Should i be concerned?

I don't think 6,500 is necessarily a problem, but seeing 7,000 rpm on a repetitive basis might be pushing it on a stock bottom end. At 800 rwhp, you're looking at well over 900 hp at the crank. When you're increasing power input by almost 40% over design specs, you're exceeding the safe limit on a lot of the OEM internal components. It really is a crap shoot as to which engines hold together and which ones don't. They're pretty durable engines for what they are. If it pops, build the next one better. Knowing the price tag of doing it right is a bit of a shock. I did mine a few years back and did a lot of the final assembly work myself, but I bet I'm not that far off the numbers thrown around here. What I don't see in this thread is the cost of upgrading timing components and liberal use of ARP fasteners. These come at fairly high costs too.

Unless you plan on running cams, I think the stock timing stuff is adequate. Now, if you're running a 2 step, do the upgrade.

hostile500 said:

So let me ask this, and im not trying to hijack the thread.
My 13 has 17K on it and just about all the bolt ons making 730whp.
Over the winter should i consider upgrading the timing components? Final goal on the car im hoping to stay around 800WHP. Ill be honest with 4:10s i have hit the rev limit a couple times set at 6500. Should i be concerned?

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I wouldn't have a rev limit at 6500. You should have your SHIFT LIGHT set at 6500 so you don't exceed 7000rpm, but reving to 6500rpm on a shift is better than hitting a rev limiter at 6500. Ford did design over rev to 7000rpm on the '13-14.
Unless you plan on changing cams or racing regularly, I would not spend money on timing upgrades.
-J

I've looked at motor build cost and the numbers quoted are very much inline.

One option I have played with in my head is pulling out the aluminum shortblock while everything is still good and replacing it with a built iron block shortblock. Yes the iron block is around a 100lbs heavier but replace a few stock parts with better ligher ones and the difference equals out, plus its half the cost of an aluminum shortblock.

Was on par with my build sheet, a little differences that drove my price up a bit more but like everyone else has said 1000 rwhp is not cheap and my goal was greater than that. Only wish I would have looked into billet crank a bit more, but maybe down the road.

at 1000 rwhp you're building a "race" motor like it or not (intending to use it that way or not). It may easier to achieve than ever but thats still a hell of a lot of stress.

RBB said:

I'm aware of the issues with the bigger blowers, but not sure why Ken said he hoped double keying the crank wouldn't come back to bite him. Never heard of an issue there.

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The benefit of double keying the crank adds is you now have two keyways to shear instead of one. If the keyway shears the damper spins freely on the crank snout without turning the blower. Having 2 keyways to shear decreases the possibility of this happening immensely.

Double keyways will not add any structural strength to the crank snout. So the stock or SCJ crank snouts can still be snapped off by the bigger superchargers under the right conditions fairly easily.

Thabeast said:

Didn’t John Mihovetz at Accufab document some bad harmonics in the stock cobra jet crank around 67-6800 rpm?

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Yes he did. Both Winberg and Bryant cranks have addition counter weights to combat this

biminiLX said:

Probably did but a well balanced CJ crank at $300-400 can be bought about 10 times over a custom billet deal.
Just sayin.
-J

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It all depends on the Hp goals of the engine. As Hp increases so do the harmonics from the individual cylinders firing and how those cylinder impulses effect the crankshaft. You need to control these harmonics across the entire engine RPM range or the crankshaft will eventually break and take out the block with it. A 900 Hp engine spinning 7000 RPM has a lot less harmonics being introduced to the crankshaft than a 1400 Hp engine spinning 7000 RPM. A SCJ crank is cheap during the initial build, but a new block and crank is expensive at a later date when compared to installing a billet crank in the first place. Plus with the billet crank the snout will handle the big superchargers needed to achieve the bigger Hp goals with ease

Great info as usual Bad Company! Is there any difference between Winberg and Bryant or is just a Coke-Pepsi thing.

They are both in the high end of crankshaft manufacturing. There a few others also but those two have proven modular cranks.
-J

Bearbo said:

Great info as usual Bad Company! Is there any difference between Winberg and Bryant or is just a Coke-Pepsi thing.

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I went with Bryant,they said 90% of their 5.4/5.8 cranks were built for Accufab and they might have some in stock.They did and i picked one up with no build time.
Polished oil holes,counter weights are knife edged and aero profiled and the REM finish makes me think of just hanging it up on the wall instead...


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Thanks Venomous 03. I looked at both online they were sweet. Either I am getting too old or too much of car guy when I get just as or more excited looking at quality car parts.

You can upgrade the timing components and install a set of JDM Super stock cams all at the same time
http://www.teamjdm.com/jdm-gt500-super-stock-camshaft-max-performance-kit/

biminiLX said:

How hard do you plan to run it? Track time?
-J

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It will be a street car first but I would not mind doing some 1/2 mile or maybe one mile runs. It seems it is either a $400 CJ crank or a $4000 billet.

The Cobrajet crankshaft is the same as OEM GT500. Don't think you're buying an upgrade if you purchase the Ford Performance Cobrajet crankshaft, although there are things that can be done to improve the stock cranks.

Catmonkey said:

The Cobrajet crankshaft is the same as OEM GT500. Don't think you're buying an upgrade if you purchase the Ford Performance Cobrajet crankshaft, although there are things that can be done to improve the stock cranks.

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This is true. Although some early CJ cranks came double keyed. I had JDM double key the crank in my 5.8
Prep and balance can make the CJ/stock crank better but the alternative is the billet at 10x the price.
Top speed events are some of the hardest on parts as it's sustained load and you'll find the weak links.
Ken it's prob best to talk to your builder and tuner to decide how much crank you need.
-J

biminiLX said:

This is true. Although some early CJ cranks came double keyed. I had JDM double key the crank in my 5.8
Prep and balance can make the CJ/stock crank better but the alternative is the billet at 10x the price.
Top speed events are some of the hardest on parts as it's sustained load and you'll find the weak links.
Ken it's prob best to talk to your builder and tuner to decide how much crank you need.
-J

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I did talk to my builder along with another builder and both said I would be ok with the CJ crank for my goals. Both are well know and respected on this board. That said I am an overkill type guy and like all the insurance I can get but at this point I will have to trust the experts.

KENS96M6 said:

I did talk to my builder along with another builder and both said I would be ok with the CJ crank for my goals. Both are well know and respected on this board. That said I am an overkill type guy and like all the insurance I can get but at this point I will have to trust the experts.

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Smart man. Looking forward to seeing your results. Hit me up if you need any info.
-J

biminiLX said:

Smart man. Looking forward to seeing your results. Hit me up if you need any info.
-J

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Thanks. I have already learned a bunch just reading many of your posts along with others posts. I will keep that in mind as I am new to the Mod world and can use all the help I can get.