Help choosing a blower upgrade

RBB · Feb 14, 2019

evasive said:
Probably wise to get a billet crank gear and billet oil pump gears with those numbers.

Agreed. I wouldn't get too hung up on making some specific HP # over 750 on a stock engine....unless you're just doing it once on the dyno for bragging rights. I don't know what your intended use is OP, but sooner or later you're going to break something drag racing it at that power level.

V8Flexin · Feb 14, 2019

Well my intended purpose is to not get embarrassed during impromptu highway encounters with all the hellcats and modded scat packs in my area if I'm spending this amount of money in mods. I initially bought the car because of the potential ease of higher power with simple mods obviously it was before hellcats were a thing and affordable. But at the same time I don't want to grenade my engine as they are not LS's and easily replaceable. I do plan on switching over to a ctsv after I get a new house to please the wife and they are more family friendly. Maybe this is a sign to just wait a few more years.

Sent from my PURE XL using the svtperformance.com mobile app

RBB · Feb 14, 2019

V8Flexin said:
Well my intended purpose is to not get embarrassed during impromptu highway encounters with all the hellcats and modded scat packs in my area if I'm spending this amount of money in mods. I initially bought the car because of the potential ease of higher power with simple mods obviously it was before hellcats were a thing and affordable. But at the same time I don't want to grenade my engine as they are not LS's and easily replaceable. I do plan on switching over to a ctsv after I get a new house to please the wife and they are more family friendly. Maybe this is a sign to just wait a few more years.

Sent from my PURE XL using the svtperformance.com mobile app

I'd go ahead and make the switch to a new blower, CAI/TB - nothing wrong with that....just wouldn't get too hung up on making 800 to the tire and pushing beyond the capabilities of your bottom end.

1Kona_Venom · Feb 14, 2019

RBB said:
I'd go ahead and make the switch to a new blower, CAI/TB - nothing wrong with that....just wouldn't get too hung up on making 800 to the tire and pushing beyond the capabilities of your bottom end.

......or your tires

Totalpkg · Feb 14, 2019

V8Flexin said:
Well my intended purpose is to not get embarrassed during impromptu highway encounters with all the hellcats and modded scat packs in my area if I'm spending this amount of money in mods. I initially bought the car because of the potential ease of higher power with simple mods obviously it was before hellcats were a thing and affordable. But at the same time I don't want to grenade my engine as they are not LS's and easily replaceable. I do plan on switching over to a ctsv after I get a new house to please the wife and they are more family friendly. Maybe this is a sign to just wait a few more years.

Sent from my PURE XL using the svtperformance.com mobile app

If your concern is with highway encounters and such, I would try and find someone to do a ride along. That video for JDjoyride confirms for me that I made the right decision in choosing the VMP Gen 3. Dont get me wrong, I'm sure the Whipple would be an excellent blower, but the TVS ability to produce a flat, more useable power curve is what I crave. I want to be violently push back into the seat when I step on it...

I wouldnt be wrapped up too much in high dyno numbers...

V8Flexin · Feb 14, 2019

So just for clarity, what is the recommended maximum safe power limit for the 07-09 motors before having to open and fortify the engine? What is the most common weak link? I could build the engine up myself as I work on cars for a living. Honestly, I just don't want to. Especially when it comes to the oil pump gears as at that point I might as well install cams since I'll have to pull the chains. And since I know I'm not keeping the car forever it's just not worth it to me. I just want to have some fun, return to stock, and move on with no long-term down time.

Sent from my PURE XL using the svtperformance.com mobile app

RBB · Feb 14, 2019

V8Flexin said:
So just for clarity, what is the recommended maximum safe power limit for the 07-09 motors before having to open and fortify the engine? What is the most common weak link? I could build the engine up myself as I work on cars for a living. Honestly, I just don't want to. Especially when it comes to the oil pump gears as at that point I might as well install cams since I'll have to pull the chains. And since I know I'm not keeping the car forever it's just not worth it to me. I just want to have some fun, return to stock, and move on with no long-term down time.

Sent from my PURE XL using the svtperformance.com mobile app

750 seems to be generally recognized as a fairly safe limit, but shit can still happen.

Rods, lower crank sprocket, and OPGs would be the weakest links.

biminiLX · Feb 14, 2019

If you don’t mind doing the work, a set of ‘13-14 cams and a VMP Gen3 will likely hit 750rwhp, but most importantly give you the power of the Whipple but a greater torque curve, most import for street and highway fun.
Or sell and put that money toward a Hellcat, they live up to the hype

-J

V8Flexin · Feb 15, 2019

I thought all gt500's had fully forged rotating assemblies. I know freak stuff can happen as my coworker totalled his 14 gt500 that had cams and long tubes that he was unable to recover. Anyway, I think I'm going to just try to max out the stock blower or see what pops up in the for sale forum.

Sent from my PURE XL using the svtperformance.com mobile app

RBB · Feb 15, 2019

V8Flexin said:
I thought all gt500's had fully forged rotating assemblies. I know freak stuff can happen as my coworker totalled his 14 gt500 that had cams and long tubes that he was unable to recover. Anyway, I think I'm going to just try to max out the stock blower or see what pops up in the for sale forum.

Sent from my PURE XL using the svtperformance.com mobile app

The rods are powder forged. So yes, technically they're "forged", but they don't hold up nearly as well.

Streetpwr281 · Feb 15, 2019

I had an 07’ GT500 back in 2008 w Whipple 3.4L, ARH LT’s w full Magnaflow 3” exhaust, Whipple Monoblade, JLT CAÍ, Injectors, IW 10% lower, and dual BAP. Car made 750rwhp on 93 at ~ 20psi. Car made 800rwhp on 104 at 22psi. Stock cams. Probably pushing my luck on the short block but I ran it pretty hard on the street/highway and a couple 1/4 mile visits w no issues. Installed BMR k-member a drop spacers to fit 3.4L Under stock hood.

I currently have a 2013 GT500 w Whipple Gen 3 2.9L, VMP Twinjet 67mm, JLT 155mm CAÍ, ID1050X Injectors, IW 15% lower, SW LT’s/H-Pipe (stock catback), Billet OPGs/Crank Gear. Stock cams. Daily driver. Makes 780rwhp on 93 octane @ 19psi. Absolutely sure it would be well over 800rwhp on E85 but the rods make me nervous.

I like the Whipple 2.9L Gen 3 personally as it’s a more efficient design and fits under the stock hood no issues and accepts all readily available throttle bodies. And looks great!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

V8Flexin · Feb 16, 2019

Thanks for the info. Is the twin 67 big enough for your 13? What's the drivability difference between the mono like. Currently have a frpp mono that's not installed as it keeps putting my car into limp mode. What's the duty cycle on you injectors under wot?

Sent from my SHIELD Tablet using the svtperformance.com mobile app

Totalpkg · Feb 16, 2019

I am using a the FRPP twin 65mm. Very reliable. I am looking to go to the VMP mono revision #2... Just waiting for a sale...

Streetpwr281 · Feb 16, 2019

V8Flexin said:
Thanks for the info. Is the twin 67 big enough for your 13? What's the drivability difference between the mono like. Currently have a frpp mono that's not installed as it keeps putting my car into limp mode. What's the duty cycle on you injectors under wot?

Sent from my SHIELD Tablet using the svtperformance.com mobile app

I’m probably leaving 15rwhp - 20rwhp on the table w Twin 67mm vs Whipple Monoblade but being a daily driver the driveability is paramount. Much better w Twin 67mm

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

RedVenom48 · Feb 16, 2019

@V8Flexin Lots of good info. I went down the path of trying to max out my stock M122. I even pulled it apart and did an extremely crude home port. I had a smidge better seat of the pants feel but nothing that actually extracted significant power. That was combined with a triple pass Heat Exchanger, upgraded 13-14 intercooler pump, Whipple monoblade, PMAS 120mm intake and my off road h pipe. The M122 is a dead end IMO.

I formerly owned a 2.3L TVS off a 13-14 and it made good torque low to mid. BUT, it felt a little flat at the top end. That was at 18 psi on 100 octane with a VMP tune. How it felt to me personally, but thats just me. It sure as shit puta shit eating grin on my face each time though. You can find them for cheap now but you'd have to pulley down to a 2.4 upper and probably run a 15% od to get near 800 wheel. Thats needing injectors, a pump booster and the prior mentioned HE, intake, TB and off road pipe.

@Klaus traded his Gen 3 TVS for a KB 3.6LC and seems to be happier with the result. Hell, you can get to 1000 hp with a Kenne Bell 3.2LC kit. You can also pulley down a Whipple 2.9 and start to party too. If youre going to see them on the freeway doing roll racing and pulls, absolutely go with a Whipple or Kenne Bell.

But honestly 700-750 wheel horse power and torque is probably at the safe limit for 5.4 powder metal rods. Pistons are probably ok to 800 rwhp, but I dont trust those rods at all.

ZEN357 · Mar 27, 2019

Edelborck E-Force Superchargers

Willie · Mar 27, 2019

This is my first post this year and it's almost April... That's what a chronic illness can do I suppose. I did not take the time to read any of the above, except the OP, so I don't know if anyone has already mentioned this or not, but here goes..

I have had many superchargers over the years, including other cars and different blower designs and I've been tuning them all along. One thing I've learned that I'd like to share....

It's a natural tendency to "upgrade" to the "next generation" or the next "better" design. Please note that I am not making inferences to any specific brands or blowers. I've bitten this bug several times too. But what seems to always happen is that once you get used to the newfound power, you eventually still want "just a little" more. It never fails, it seems. So we are forever sucked into this money machine. Well, last year....

I finally made a slightly different decision. Instead of going to the "next generation" as some would call it, I decided that I would not fall into this trap again.... that I was going all out and once I decided what to do, that this was it.... no more "upgrading"... Sure it cost a little more, but I viewed this as the last time. So I went big. That was over one year ago and my results have exceeded my expectations. Specifically.....

As I mentioned, I tune my own cars so getting it to run as best as it could was not a factor. During the repeated process of datalogging and modifying the tune, it become obvious almost immediately the massive power increase I was seeing. Let me give you some numbers..... While datalogging on the streets, I always ease into the throttle, I never mash the pedal. Okay on a dyno, but not the street. Easing into it is the only safe way and it also allows me to see how everything transitions better. Anyway... during one session, I being by holding 2nd gear at 2500 rpms, then start my acceleration. I start spinning, so I lift. Try again, a little less pedal. Okay, made it to 5000 rpms, so I shift to third and I depress the pedal even further. At 70 mph, about 4200 rpms, I spin out and almost lose control. Stop datalog. Review it and I see that at the instant I lost traction, my throttle angle was 42 degrees!! What? I have my idle throttle angle at 6 degrees and WOT at 83 degrees, so 42 is not even half way down. To date (over one year later), the max angle I have datalogged is 44 degrees. To date, I have not pushed the pedal any further... It's freakin' dangerous! And.....

This is with the LARGEST blower pulley they make, a 4.00". I do have a 15 percent crank though. Calculations yield a blower rpm in the 12,000 range. The redline is 18,000, so this puppy is just getting warmed up!! Oh, I'm seeing 20 psig on the gauge too. Another spec I should mention.....

In my tuning process, I retard my timing excessively when I begin. The above numbers, my timing was set to a meager NINE degrees total advance.

Late last year, I went to the track specifically to show my car to the NHRA tech inspection guys.... to see if they would pass me. The answer was no. They pulled out their book and literally showed me that I needed 3 things to pass:

1) Eight-point (minimum) roll cage,
2) Five-point safety harness, &
3) NHRA competition driver's license.

This is my "rebranded" 4.2LC KB... lol...

BOTTOM LINE: Think about going my route. You'll never "upgrade" again and you'll experience newfound power like you've never imagined and more than you'll ever need. My wife and daughter have said they will never drive this car again, lol... Isn't that what we all strive for? I mean the power, not the girlie thing!

I have to go now. Getting exhausted... I don't know when I'll be back, unfortunately..

biminiLX · Mar 27, 2019

ZEN357 said:
Edelborck E-Force Superchargers

Very good TVS kits thru Edelbrock but I don’t believe they offer GT500 kits?
If so, 2 thumbs ups to another option. My brother installed an E-forTYUJce TVS kit on a friends 2010 GT and Jwere all impressed.dff
For TVS GT500 kits, VMP is awesome, I loved my previous 2R and current Gen 3, making 1000rwhp
-J

biminiLX · Mar 27, 2019

Willie great to see you posting again and I wish you well on a quick recovery.
I’d say a 4.2KB is one helluva upgrade!
Any pics or video?
-J

RedVenom48 · Mar 27, 2019

Willie said:
This is my first post this year and it's almost April... That's what a chronic illness can do I suppose. I did not take the time to read any of the above, except the OP, so I don't know if anyone has already mentioned this or not, but here goes..

I have had many superchargers over the years, including other cars and different blower designs and I've been tuning them all along. One thing I've learned that I'd like to share....

It's a natural tendency to "upgrade" to the "next generation" or the next "better" design. Please note that I am not making inferences to any specific brands or blowers. I've bitten this bug several times too. But what seems to always happen is that once you get used to the newfound power, you eventually still want "just a little" more. It never fails, it seems. So we are forever sucked into this money machine. Well, last year....

I finally made a slightly different decision. Instead of going to the "next generation" as some would call it, I decided that I would not fall into this trap again.... that I was going all out and once I decided what to do, that this was it.... no more "upgrading"... Sure it cost a little more, but I viewed this as the last time. So I went big. That was over one year ago and my results have exceeded my expectations. Specifically.....

As I mentioned, I tune my own cars so getting it to run as best as it could was not a factor. During the repeated process of datalogging and modifying the tune, it become obvious almost immediately the massive power increase I was seeing. Let me give you some numbers..... While datalogging on the streets, I always ease into the throttle, I never mash the pedal. Okay on a dyno, but not the street. Easing into it is the only safe way and it also allows me to see how everything transitions better. Anyway... during one session, I being by holding 2nd gear at 2500 rpms, then start my acceleration. I start spinning, so I lift. Try again, a little less pedal. Okay, made it to 5000 rpms, so I shift to third and I depress the pedal even further. At 70 mph, about 4200 rpms, I spin out and almost lose control. Stop datalog. Review it and I see that at the instant I lost traction, my throttle angle was 42 degrees!! What? I have my idle throttle angle at 6 degrees and WOT at 83 degrees, so 42 is not even half way down. To date (over one year later), the max angle I have datalogged is 44 degrees. To date, I have not pushed the pedal any further... It's freakin' dangerous! And.....

This is with the LARGEST blower pulley they make, a 4.00". I do have a 15 percent crank though. Calculations yield a blower rpm in the 12,000 range. The redline is 18,000, so this puppy is just getting warmed up!! Oh, I'm seeing 20 psig on the gauge too. Another spec I should mention.....

In my tuning process, I retard my timing excessively when I begin. The above numbers, my timing was set to a meager NINE degrees total advance.

Late last year, I went to the track specifically to show my car to the NHRA tech inspection guys.... to see if they would pass me. The answer was no. They pulled out their book and literally showed me that I needed 3 things to pass:

1) Eight-point (minimum) roll cage,
2) Five-point safety harness, &
3) NHRA competition driver's license.

This is my "rebranded" 4.2LC KB... lol...

View attachment 1562176

BOTTOM LINE: Think about going my route. You'll never "upgrade" again and you'll experience newfound power like you've never imagined and more than you'll ever need. My wife and daughter have said they will never drive this car again, lol... Isn't that what we all strive for? I mean the power, not the girlie thing!

I have to go now. Getting exhausted... I don't know when I'll be back, unfortunately..

WILLIE!!!!!!!!!!!! Glad to see you're feeling better. I need to come down for another visit.

I can personally confirm that Willie's car is 100% grade AAA bad to the bone fast.

Didnt even have his foot down on the gas and it pulls like a bat out of hell. Willie is one of the few that NEED a drag radial to get anything close to resembling traction on the street.

Help choosing a blower upgrade

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

US Army (Ret)

Active Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

never stock

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Active Member

Active Member

Active Member

Let's go Brandon!

Active Member

Well-Known Member

never stock

never stock

Let's go Brandon!

Users who are viewing this thread