Methanol injection

quikstang90 · Aug 6, 2017

Do you guys recommend methanol injection on these cars ? Any real world experience. Been tossing around the idea alot and have spoken with a few companies. Really leaning towards the snow stage 3 kit with the 2d mapping that uses boost and injectors to command the spray.

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Willie · Aug 6, 2017

quikstang90 said:
Do you guys recommend methanol injection on these cars ? Any real world experience.

Yes and yes. Many, many years.... but............

quikstang90 said:
Been tossing around the idea alot and have spoken with a few companies. Really leaning towards the snow stage 3 kit with the 2d mapping that uses boost and injectors to command the spray.

Do not go with any "off the shelf" system unless you want disappointment. It will have to be a custom-designed system that incorporates multiple nozzles. My design utilizes 5 nozzles and is extremely effective.... And I would only recommend companies that use stainless lines and brass fittings.

quikstang90 · Aug 6, 2017

Willie said:
Yes and yes. Many, many years.... but............

Do not go with any "off the shelf" system unless you want disappointment. It will have to be a custom-designed system that incorporates multiple nozzles. My design utilizes 5 nozzles and is extremely effective.... And I would only recommend companies that use stainless lines and brass fittings.

Thank u for the info man.... out of the companies out there who would u do business with? Snow, devils own, alky control ?? There are so many out there...... and so little info on our cars with it

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Willie · Aug 6, 2017

There is a reason why there is virtually nil information about methanol and our cars. That's because the "nozzle next to the throttle body" system that is sold by virtually everyone does nothing to cool IAT2's, which consumers are led to believe it will, only to be disappointed. Then we give up on methanol. I can tell you with my design, I can watch IAT2's once the methanol starts flowing, DROP significantly during my 1/4-mile pass. At the end of a typical pass, my IAT2 is about 20 DEGREES COOLER than at the start. Not to mention the safety that methanol provides with its substantially increased octane.

I have done business with Julio at Alky Control on my GT500 (two of them), 2005 Mustang GT (with a Whipple), twin-turbo IROC-Z and my Procharged IROC-Z >> all with methanol from Julio. Each had its own different challenges. When it comes to knowledge, Julio never ceases to amaze me. His personal vehicle used to be a Grand National. That was when I was running Camaros and now that I'm into Fords, he just happens to run an 8-second Mustang! I would suggest you give him a call with your concerns. Mention that Willie with the GT500 with the 4-nozzles under the intercooler and 1 after the throttle body pointed you his way.

quikstang90 · Aug 6, 2017

Awesome man. Thank you ! I just emailed him and got a response saying he is out of the shop till the 14th

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quikstang90 · Aug 6, 2017

Willie said:
There is a reason why there is virtually nil information about methanol and our cars. That's because the "nozzle next to the throttle body" system that is sold by virtually everyone does nothing to cool IAT2's, which consumers are led to believe it will, only to be disappointed. Then we give up on methanol. I can tell you with my design, I can watch IAT2's once the methanol starts flowing, DROP significantly during my 1/4-mile pass. At the end of a typical pass, my IAT2 is about 20 DEGREES COOLER than at the start. Not to mention the safety that methanol provides with its substantially increased octane.

I have done business with Julio at Alky Control on my GT500 (two of them), 2005 Mustang GT (with a Whipple), twin-turbo IROC-Z and my Procharged IROC-Z >> all with methanol from Julio. Each had its own different challenges. When it comes to knowledge, Julio never ceases to amaze me. His personal vehicle used to be a Grand National. That was when I was running Camaros and now that I'm into Fords, he just happens to run an 8-second Mustang! I would suggest you give him a call with your concerns. Mention that Willie with the GT500 with the 4-nozzles under the intercooler and 1 after the throttle body pointed you his way.

Now with regards to the nozzles under the manifold ? How hard of an install is something like that ? Im no virgin to the garage. I do all my own work , clutches, opgs on my 2014 gt, supercharger on gt, and all mods on my gt500.

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Willie · Aug 6, 2017

quikstang90 said:
Now with regards to the nozzles under the manifold ? How hard of an install is something like that ?

The 4 nozzles are installed on the lower intake manifold's lower plate. The disadvantage to this design is the inaccessibility to the nozzles once they are installed, but there really is no other location that will cool the intake charge. And because I have already experimented with different nozzle sizes and countless hours of redundant labor by me (haha), everyone who is interested in copying me has the advantage of knowing what size to use the first time.

Lower Intake Manifold Cover with Meth Plumbing 02a.jpg

quikstang90 · Aug 6, 2017

Wow. Thats a badass.... and sleeper setup

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Beercules · Aug 11, 2017

Fyi, ford is working on water/ meth injection. BMW already has a stock water meth injection system.

www.allfordmustangs.com/2017/07/19/ford-patents-new-way-achieve-high-horsepower-extreme-efficiency/?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=AllFordMustangs.com_weekly&utm_source=AllFordMustangs.com20170721

Hopefully it won't be long before tuners get over their meth injection hangups.

Willie · Aug 12, 2017

Beercules said:
Fyi, ford is working on water/ meth injection.

How interesting.... love it.

Beercules said:
Hopefully it won't be long before tuners get over their meth injection hangups.

This is just one big reason why I decided to learn how to tune. And I have developed for myself, what I feel, are the keys to running a methanol system successfully and efficiently (hardware and firmware) on our cars.

The other is I wanted a tune that only I have, optimized for my car and my car only, because every car is different.

Can you spot my methanol lines normally hidden under my air box?

RedVenom48 · Aug 13, 2017

Willie, if you could do that for Nitrous... youd be a dangers dude to pull next to at a stop light... haha!

blitz1029 · Aug 31, 2017

So putting the nozzles in front of the throttle body didn't help? Wouldn't it cool the blower as well? What size nozzles did you try in front of the throttle body? I plan on running a higher water content for iat2. I run e85 so I'm not concerned about octane.

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Willie · Aug 31, 2017

I went as large as a #20 nozzle, too much for my motor but an experiment worth trying. When the blower itself reaches temps around 200 degrees, even this much methanol doesn't have a significant cooling effect on the air. It's like using one large fan to try to cool AT&T Stadium! I tried 100 percent methanol and 50/50.

Beercules · Aug 31, 2017

My iat2 comes down while spraying, though likely not as much as Willie's system.
Pulling the intake is a huge pain, mainly due to the intake hose in the rear. There's also coolant passages in the intake, so drain it a bit before pulling.

Willie · Aug 31, 2017

Beercules said:
My iat2 comes down while spraying....

At what boost level do you start spraying? I did not experiment too much with a pre-blower nozzle. Only did I try a few different things but never with spraying earlier than, say, 5-psig boost.

Beercules said:
Pulling the intake is a huge pain, mainly due to the intake hose in the rear.

It certainly is and I had to do mine several times, but I finally came up with a nozzle size that works well. Also, what I ended up doing when removing the intake was to cut that hose in the rear. When re-installing the intake, I used a brass hose splicer with a couple of worm gear clamps.

Beercules said:
There's also coolant passages in the intake, so drain it a bit before pulling.

Very good advise.

blitz1029 · Aug 31, 2017

When you say "too much" was it flooding it? I plan on using it on my 3.6 kb and from what I've been reading they get much hotter than the tvs. If it is running much hotter then it should vaporize it and hopefully get the cooling effect. We'll see what happens. My motor build is almost done. I'll post results. I do have your phone number so I'll keep in touch when we start doing the tune.

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Willie · Aug 31, 2017

blitz1029 said:
When you say "too much" was it flooding it?

Yes. Noticeable loss of power.

blitz1029 said:
If it is running much hotter then it should vaporize it and hopefully get the cooling effect.

Think of the path the methanol has to take to the combustion chamber and think of the temperature of the surrounding metal on its path. When it flows into the top of the blower, it's already turned to vapor. Then it travels through super hot rotors. One of my temperature gauges reads at the base of the blower, on top of the intercooler. This is the location where I have seen temps exceed 200 degrees. Luckily, this air still has to travel through the intercooler, which does a good job as seen in the IAT2 temp, which is substantially lower. But the question remains, how much lower is this IAT2 temp, if methanol were not mixed in? By back-to-back WOT pulls, one with and one without methanol, I saw no difference. Then I installed my four nozzles in the lower intake and that is when I watched my IAT2s drop while the methanol was being sprayed and continue to drop for about 10 seconds after I lifted. Then within one minute or so, it was back up significantly to what it was before the pull.

blitz1029 said:
I'll post results. I do have your phone number so I'll keep in touch when we start doing the tune.

That would be great to see someone besides myself with empirical data... And yes, contact me whenever you need.

Beercules · Sep 1, 2017

Willie said:
At what boost level do you start spraying? I did not experiment too much with a pre-blower nozzle. Only did I try a few different things but never with spraying earlier than, say, 5-psig boost.

It certainly is and I had to do mine several times, but I finally came up with a nozzle size that works well. Also, what I ended up doing when removing the intake was to cut that hose in the rear. When re-installing the intake, I used a brass hose splicer with a couple of worm gear clamps.

Very good advise.

I start at 5 psi. When I increased to top and bottom pulleys the temp didn't come down, so I just switched back to stock upper.

I'm also experimenting with www.heatshieldproducts.com/i-m-shield now, figuring a lot of the heat comes from the engine itself...i haven't driven it in hot weather yet.

papajoewill · Feb 17, 2019

Willie said:
The 4 nozzles are installed on the lower intake manifold's lower plate. The disadvantage to this design is the inaccessibility to the nozzles once they are installed, but there really is no other location that will cool the intake charge. And because I have already experimented with different nozzle sizes and countless hours of redundant labor by me (haha), everyone who is interested in copying me has the advantage of knowing what size to use the first time.
View attachment 97177

Where is the 5th nozzle?

Snoopy49 · Feb 17, 2019

Willie said:
Mention that Willie with the GT500 with the 4-nozzles under the intercooler and 1 after the throttle body pointed you his way.

Methanol injection

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Let's go Brandon!

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